The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode: Why Susie Wiles Can't Deny Spilling Trump Secrets

Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Chris Whipple (Vanity Fair Contributor, Author, Journalist)
Date: December 17, 2025

Overview

In this riveting episode, Joanna Coles sits down with Chris Whipple, who recently penned an explosive Vanity Fair profile of Susie Wiles, Donald Trump's current White House Chief of Staff. Whipple, who conducted 11 on-the-record interviews with Wiles over nearly a year, reveals the extraordinary access he gained and the unguarded insights shared by one of the most powerful women in American politics. The discussion explores the fallout from the article, what Wiles really thinks of her colleagues, and how her candor has shaken up the Trump White House. The episode provides listeners with a rare, behind-the-scenes view of Trump's inner circle, the controversies now roiling Washington, and the personal dynamics defining the administration's second term.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Fallout from Whipple's Piece on Susie Wiles

• Why the article is so consequential (05:15):

  • Whipple describes the piece as a "lightning strikes" moment in a reporter's career, both in terms of access and the revelations that emerged about Trump 2.0 and Wiles’ role inside the White House.
  • He notes the unprecedented support Wiles received from the cabinet post-publication.

• White House and Wiles' reactions (06:22, 07:08):

  • Joanna Coles reads Susie Wiles' public statement denouncing the piece as a "disingenuously framed hit piece." Whipple responds that, despite the outrage, "the White House has not disputed a single fact in the piece because we're on absolutely solid ground."

2. The Nature of the Interviews and Access

• How the profile came about (08:26):
  • Whipple explains that Wiles was enthusiastic about participating due to his reputation for fairness (after writing The Gatekeepers) and was aware the piece would be for Vanity Fair.
• Transparency and control (09:26):
  • Interviews were lengthy, all on the record, and were accompanied by Vanity Fair's photographer. The White House knew and accepted the arrangement, further affirming the piece’s credibility.

3. Notable Revelations from the Interviews

a. Trump's "Alcoholic's Personality"

• Wiles' comment and Trump’s reaction (10:39, 11:24, 11:37):
  • Wiles described Trump as having an "alcoholics personality," referencing his grandiosity and compulsions rather than substance use.
  • Trump publicly confirms he has "a possessive and addictive type personality," is not offended, and continues to support Wiles.

Quote - Chris Whipple (11:43):
"She understands the personality of an alcoholic ... And when she applies it to Donald Trump, obviously she doesn't mean that he's a drinker. ... But he does have this grandiose personality, untethered sometimes to reality. My words, not hers."

b. Susie Wiles' Reluctant Limelight

• Despite claiming to shun the public eye, Wiles gave Whipple unprecedented access, including personal details and office layouts, which Coles finds paradoxical (13:28).
• Whipple speculates that Wiles trusted he would be fair:

Quote (14:03):
"I like to think that maybe ... she knows the piece is fair because it is. They’re certainly her words, not mine."

c. Cabinet and Colleague Dynamics

• J.D. Vance’s transformation: Wiles claims Vance’s rapid shift from fierce critic to Trump’s VP pick was "sort of political," in contrast to Marco Rubio’s more gradual, principled journey (19:54, 20:17).

Quote - Whipple (20:17):
"[Vance’s] conversion was sort of political quote unquote. ... That was remarkably candid and interesting."

• Elon Musk "microdosing": Wiles speculated Musk may have been microdosing ketamine during erratic Twitter episodes, though she disclaims personal knowledge (19:54, 20:09).

• Cabinet as disruptors: Wiles describes her cabinet as "disruptors," lauding the likes of Pete Hegseth and Bobby Kennedy for their outsider stances (27:46, 28:32).

4. The Role and Challenge of Being Chief of Staff

• Historic position: Wiles is recognized as the first female chief of staff, with a notably close working relationship with Trump (22:49).
• Comparison to Trump's 1st term chaos: Trump 2.0 described as more stable due to Wiles' leadership, in contrast to the "killing field" of Trump 1.0 where chiefs of staff cycled rapidly (23:14).
• The core question: Can Wiles tell Trump uncomfortable truths? Whipple frames this as the essential test of any effective chief of staff, noting the journey across his yearlong reporting (24:23, 33:35):

Quote - Whipple (34:06):
"The real test is, has she told him hard truths? ... and will he listen? And, boy, it’s just not clear that she’s able to do that."

5. Gender, Perception, and Power

• “Not an enabler, not a bitch” (28:32):
  • Wiles strongly rejects labels sometimes attached to female leaders, responding sharply to Leon Panetta’s (Clinton’s chief of staff) musings about whether she’s an “enabler or a disciplinarian.”
  • Whipple and Coles discuss the challenge of a woman navigating the chief of staff’s traditional truth-to-power role in Trump’s White House.

Quote - Wiles via Whipple (28:38):
"I’m not an enabler and I’m not a bitch. That’s about as salty as Susie Wiles gets."

6. Media, Messaging, and Denials

• Denials and parallels to British Royals (37:33):
  • Coles compares Wiles’ denials of the interview’s authenticity to Princess Diana’s secret media strategies.
  • Whipple, echoing Michael Wolff, dismisses the idea of “four-dimensional chess” and suggests Wiles simply kept talking, not for calculated ends but perhaps for fairness’ sake.

Quote - Whipple (39:21):
"It might be checkers, but I just don’t think they’re that clever about it ... she just started talking and wanted to talk, thought she had ... a fair [hearing] and just kept talking."

7. Likelihood of Wiles’ Survival and Her Uniqueness

• Will she be fired? (43:16):

  • Whipple gives her a "90%" chance of remaining chief of staff, citing her unique bond with Trump and the absence of alternatives.

• Is anyone indispensable? (44:18):

  • “Nobody is indispensable,” Whipple concedes, but Wiles has as tight a hold as anyone ever has on the role.

8. The Human Side of Susie Wiles

• Did Whipple like her? (44:39):
  • "She's really a likable person ... she seemed willing in a way that ... senior White House officials hardly ever [are] to just let it rip and boy, did she."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Chris Whipple, on Wiles’ candor (45:27):

  "Susie, to her credit, was willing to just let it rip and boy, did she."

• Wiles on difficult men (12:28):

  "She’d be the first to tell you that she has a PhD in difficult men."

• Wiles defending her approach to power (28:38):

  "I'm not an enabler and I'm not a bitch."

• Joanna Coles, on the paradox of Wiles’ publicity (13:28):

  "She claims not to like the limelight ... yet she found the time to sit with you or talk to you for 11 interviews. What's that about?"

• Whipple, on the report's impact (17:04):

  "Susie ... in her candor, she has revealed some unspoken truths about the way this White House functions."

• On the Trump-Wiles bond (46:02):

  “When they first sat down and had a talk about working together, Donald Trump was sort of in awe. ... He believes in two things. He believes in winning and he believes in great genius—G-E-N-E-S. And she had it.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Chris Whipple describes the reporting process and White House reaction – 02:49, 05:15, 07:08
• Wiles' "alcoholic's personality" comment and Trump’s response – 10:39, 11:24, 11:37
• Deep dive into Wiles’ background and motivations – 12:28–14:03
• Cabinet dynamics and the JD Vance “conversion” – 19:54–21:21
• Experiences as first female chief of staff and the challenge of telling Trump hard truths – 22:30–24:23, 33:35–34:06
• Gender, power, and the enabler/bitch dilemma – 28:32–30:43
• Denials, media management, and the British Royal Family parallel – 37:33–39:21
• Prediction on Wiles’ job security – 43:16–44:18
• Whipple’s view on Wiles personally – 44:39–45:27
• Insight into the Trump-Wiles partnership – 46:02

Conclusion

This episode offers an unvarnished, deeply reported look into the current Trump White House through the eyes of its most powerful woman. Whipple’s reporting and Coles’ incisive questioning reveal a portrait of Susie Wiles as both brilliant political operator and unexpected truth-teller, now at the whirlwind center of political controversy. Whether Wiles’ candor will ultimately strengthen her position or hasten her downfall remains to be seen—but her unprecedented access and honesty have already begun to reshape the narrative of Trump 2.0.

For those seeking the inside story behind the headlines, this interview is an essential listen—and the accompanying Vanity Fair piece is a must-read for anyone following American politics.