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Adam Grant
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Ryan Reynolds
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- [01:42]
Michael Wolff
There is always an entourage of younger, good looking women around Trump, all dressed the same and all who basically look the same. During his criminal trial, the Stormy Daniels trial, he was obviously convicted on all 34 counts. But afterwards I spoke to one of the jurors. He said all of these Trump women, girls, you know, the ones who were testifying, Hope Hicks, Madeleine Westerhout, the ones who were sitting behind him, Natalie Harp, Alina Haba, Sarah said they all, they all look the same, they all dress the same and they all look the same. It really creeped everybody out. It's a role.
- [02:30]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Michael, Joanna, I mean, again, where do we begin? I guess with a subpoena for the Clintons.
- [02:37]
Michael Wolff
Why not? It's always, it always comes back with Donald Trump when he's in Trouble, especially trouble about women. And fundamentally, the Epstein story is about women. What does he do? He goes, he goes, bill Clinton did it more. And that's obviously what happened. He has sent the word down to the, to the House Committee to call the Clintons, distract the Clintons, Epstein, the Clintons. He has been trying to make this connection, the Clintons to Epstein really, from the get go. I mean, that was always one of Epstein's beliefs, that Trump wanted him to make that connection, that he was going to be the person that would be the guy to implicate Clinton to get Trump out of harm's way, Epstein's harm's way.
- [03:32]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
And who can forget the gimmick? Or perhaps it was more sophisticated than a gimmick of brilliant. Bringing the women who alleged that Bill Clinton had abused them to one of his debates with Hillary Clinton, which clearly threw Hillary Clinton off her stride, as it would throw anybody off their stride.
- [03:53]
Michael Wolff
Yes. And that was, that was a Bannon contribution.
- [03:57]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Oh, that was Steve Bannon's idea.
- [03:59]
Michael Wolff
And that may be the thing that he is singularly most proud of in his political life or in his entire life. And let's realize how important this was. This came right after the grab them by the pussy moment, which was the moment that appeared by all logic and reason, to doom the Trump campaign. I mean, even the Republican Party was basically saying, we're not gonna support. You gotta get out of this race. I mean, we're not gonna support you. And then Steve Bannon brought in these Clinton accusers, and that was the moment that it turn right.
- [04:38]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
And then Melania did her. It's locker room talk. Just locker room talk. And then a very enterprising T shirt salesman. And I don't know if this was Kash Patel, because we know that one of the qualifying factors for Kash Patel being at the, being the head of the FBI is that he was a hawking T shirt. But someone did T shirts that women could wear at Trump rallies saying, trump, you can grab me by the pussy. Which I sort of wanted to wear as an ironic statement, but I was concerned that nobody would realize it was ironic.
- [05:12]
Michael Wolff
Do you, do you. Well, that's more important. Do you, do you actually have that T shirt?
- [05:17]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
I don't, but I remember seeing pictures of the T shirts and thinking, what a clever T shirt.
- [05:22]
Michael Wolff
Okay, well, let's, let's recirculate it. Somebody go on ebay right now?
- [05:27]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Yeah. Okay. That's a very. That's a very good idea. There must be some of them. I think they originated perhaps from the entrepreneur in Tom's river. That makes a lot of Trumpabilia. Anyway. What is the significance of the dates they've called the Clintons? They've called Bill Clinton to appear before the oversight committee on December 17th and Hillary to appear on the 18th.
- [05:50]
Michael Wolff
Well, isn't that the day that the Epstein files, and let's begin to use air quotes here, are supposed to be delivered to Congress?
- [06:02]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Ding, ding, ding, top of the class. You get a gold star. Correct. So as you're always saying, distraction, distraction, distraction.
- [06:13]
Michael Wolff
So we can imagine that on that day they will disgorge any connection in the files to the Clintons and everything.
- [06:25]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Else, I'm assuming, because, well, not everything.
- [06:28]
Michael Wolff
I mean, we are not going again. And you know, as, as, as we've discussed, you know, I think everybody has to be at attention about, about this. They're not going to do it. Donald Trump is not going to do it. He's going to use every possible loophole to not turn over these files or not turn over the files that in any way implicate him or anyone else he does not want implicated. And Congress has given him the wherewithal to do that.
- [07:05]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
So it seems a very tired trope to reach in his quiver and pull out the Clinton arrow. We know that Clinton has had a troubled history with women. It's not a surprise people forgave him for it. They may not have forgiven Hillary for it, which is a different thing altogether and much more complex.
- [07:26]
Michael Wolff
But she's not running for anything.
- [07:28]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
She's not running for anything. But why would they want to subpoena her? What on earth are they going to ask her?
- [07:33]
Michael Wolff
This is just, just for the purposes of distraction and embarrassment. There is no other reason, there is no other even informational basis here. I mean, unless they want to. I mean, I suppose they will ask if Bill Clinton had ever had a relationship with, with any of the women in the, who have accused Jeffrey Epstein or what whatever that question is, is going to be. And he has repeatedly answered this, that he has not. And I think that's, that's, that's probably reasonable. You know, I think the, I would, I would believe, and certainly supported by the things, but the things that Epstein said to me, that this was, you know, Bill Clinton's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein was, if not solely importantly, about the fact that Jeffrey Epstein had an airplane and was willing to ferry him around. And you can't underestimate how important that is to so many people who had a, had a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And in fact, it's sort of Jeffrey Epstein's business model. I will get the biggest airplane I can get, and then I will invite people on it because nobody turns down an invitation to fly private.
- [09:06]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
But the strange thing is that the Clintons couldn't have put a private plane on the Clinton Global Initiative. I mean, you're ex president. You're flying to Africa. You're trying to do all sorts of charity work.
- [09:19]
Michael Wolff
I'm sure Jeffrey Epstein's is certainly not the only private plane that they, that they flew on. But they could not afford their own private plane.
- [09:29]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
But they could have rented one. Hello, NetJets. That's.
- [09:33]
Michael Wolff
I don't think that that is actually true. These. I mean, the planes are hugely expensive. And I'm sure at some point they did rent planes, but you couldn't rent them all the time. So you were always open to billionaires who could lend you their.
- [09:50]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Yeah, and it's clearly a currency among billionaires and how they lock people in. And it's bait, right? It's bait for people. I will give you a ride on my plane.
- [09:59]
Michael Wolff
I mean, so Bill Clinton, and understand Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, but particularly Bill Clinton couldn't fly private. I mean, couldn't fly commercial. You can't fly commercial because it's, it's you, you know, you're besieged by people. It's. You're entirely exposed. Yes, you could do it if you're willing to put up with this. But, but you're always looking, you're looking for the wherewithal not to do that. And also, you're flying all the time. So. So that becomes a, a fundamental thing in your life. Where's the private plane?
- [10:38]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Okay, so let's continue on this theme of Trump and the women, a thing that's haunted him a little bit this week.
- [10:46]
Michael Wolff
I just want to preface this, because that is the Epstein and Trump story. That is the window there. What do people perceive about this Epstein story? They perceive that this is a window into seeing the true Trump character. And where is the true Trump character probably most vividly reflected in his relationship with women and his obsession. So, you know, and remember, he's in the women business. You know, his beauty pageants, his modeling agencies, his. This is fundamental to his character.
- [11:30]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
And also it's fundamental to the way he insults people who don't fall into his vision of what a woman should look like. So we have the story of Catherine Lucy this week, a reporter for Bloomberg who asks him a question on the plane and he retorts, quiet, Piggy, no.
- [11:48]
Michael Wolff
And even his chief of staff Susie Wiles, who is the one woman who actually makes Trump World run and who is the one woman distinguished from all of the other women around him. But when he first met her in 2016, because she was running Florida for his then presidential campaign and he said after, first, after meeting her, she looks like a refrigerator, fire her. And she was not fired. And she flipped Florida. I mean, the pivotal event of Trump's political life, flipped Florida in 2016, flipped Florida again in 2020, and then, and then ran the campaign in 2024.
- [12:45]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
So we've got also, we've got him yelling, you know, quiet piggy. We've also got what appears to be the imminent collapse of his case against James Comey, because Lindsey Halligan, who's got fabulous hair but less prolific law skills, has handled the case extremely badly and didn't even show the grand jury the final charges against James Comey.
- [13:10]
Michael Wolff
Let's go back just to set this the scene, because it's an extraordinarily peculiar scene. There is always an entourage of good looking, younger good looking women around Trump all dressed the same and all who basically look the same. Matter of fact, the press, the Daily Mail is, is always getting it confused about which of these women is, is whom. You know, when I was during his criminal trial in New York, the Stormy Daniels, speaking of another woman, the Stormy Daniels trial, he was obviously convicted on all 34 counts. But afterwards I spoke to one of the jurors and among the things that this juror singled out, he said, you know, all of these Trump women, girls, you know, the ones who were testifying, Hope Hicks, Madeleine Westerhout, the ones who were sitting behind him, Natalie Harp, Alina Haba, he said they all look the same, they all dress the same and they all look the same. It really creeped everybody out.
- [14:32]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Well, and they also look like a much younger version of Melania. I mean, Melania seems ageless. And as you wrote in your substack column, she actually has an unknowableness about her that lends itself to, to now being her brand.
- [14:47]
Michael Wolff
Ivanka slips in here, too. It's all of a, I mean, there's a lot of plastic surgery so that they can all, all look this, look the same. But it is very much and attention. You know, you're in this as a, as a, it's a role. You know, when I first sat in, I think I've told this story before when I was in the White House in 2017, sitting there every day and I would see these women come by all who were dressed the same, short pencil skirts. This was in the winter high boots and everybody's hair worn down. And, you know, and I texted my wife saying, you know, God knows I could have missed some fashion trend. But I said, is this unusual? Yes, she said, this would be very unusual if they are all in this singular mode.
- [15:42]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
It slightly reminds me of the Robert Palmer video Addicted to Love, where he has. You probably don't remember this, but he has, like, 12 women all dressed in black, hair scraped back, big red lips, playing guitars. It's an iconic video and I urge everybody to watch it if they haven't. It's so good. But he's surrounded by these sort of political groupies. They all look the same. What is the signaling here? That he is younger and more virile than he actually is, or virile, as you would say.
- [16:12]
Michael Wolff
I think part of it is, is that they are available to me. That's what he wants people to think. And there's an interesting thing that happened in the release of these emails, because an email from me to Epstein showed up. And it was. So in 2018, Epstein and Bannon were obsessed with the fact this was over the Christmas holidays, I think it was leading into 2019, that, that Trump didn't. Did not go to Mar A Lago. He stayed in the White House.
- [17:07]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
And so this was for the holidays. For Christmas, Yes.
- [17:10]
Michael Wolff
And he told people he was staying there because he was, and I quote, banging his assistant. And. And so Epstein and Bannon and Epstein was talking to Tom Barrack at the time, who was, you know, a key.
- [17:30]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Trump confidant and now an ambassador.
- [17:33]
Michael Wolff
Yes. They were all in a flutter about. About this. And in this email to Epstein from me, reveals. Reveals the name of the person, which let's. It shouldn't have been. It shouldn't have been revealed. And in the book that I wrote, this was my second book about Trump's siege. I don't include the name of the person because it was never clear that he was banging the assistant. The only thing that was clear is that he was telling people he was banging the assistant. Even that term, banging someone. When was that last used?
- [18:16]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Well, it's such a sort of weird, almost 1970s Wall street sort of braggadocious machismo. That. That's just very unappealing.
- [18:29]
Michael Wolff
Fraternity. It's a word. All of this has long since passed out of the vernacular and the modern sensibility. But there he was saying this, and all of the people who were somewhat in touch with him, a flutter about this. And no one and even then, no one entirely convinced that this was true, but certain that he was. I mean, yes, because they had been directly told on banging the assistant with enormous, enormous pride. I mean, that's. And that in itself is an old fraternity thing of people wanting you to believe that they were having sex with someone when, you know.
- [19:23]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Well, with someone 40 years younger. And especially interesting if, as you say, there are people in the White House who assume that Trump is actually post sex now, and especially because Melania doesn't appear to be around.
- [19:40]
Michael Wolff
I mean, the man whose life has been obsessed with women, and I mean, you know, a lot of women who I think we do understand, he was banging whether they were willing or not to be banged. And then he arrives at an. You know, he gets older.
- [20:03]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
I mean, he's old Trump, 79, with cankles and bruises on his hands.
- [20:09]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. You know, I mean, I remember Bannon was, you know, Even the Stormy Daniels thing with Trump always saying he didn't have sex, absolutely denying this, and how could he have done that? And then Bannon would say, well, you know, you know, a failure to launch. So whatever he arrives at, he is at an advanced age, but I think it remains enormously important to him to be seen as. As the guy. The guy the women are around. He's irresistible.
- [20:48]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Well. And his own daughter has kept her different, her distance. Ivanka, you know, on the one hand, claiming that politics is too cruel for her to be involved in, but clearly staying away. His wife appears to have moved out of the White House or never moved in again. So he's trying to signal and make up for the fact that in real life, he doesn't appear to have any women close to him. I mean, perhaps the nearest woman to him is Susie Wiles. The refrigerator.
- [21:19]
Michael Wolff
I know. I think that that's. That, that's. That. That's true. And again, you know, this. This thing, you know, during the. You know, I mean, he would refer to these women around him during the campaign as Charlie's Angels. Let's just pick out another reference from decades long past. You know, in that whole thing, the Lindsey Halligan thing. You know, the. The. My lawyers aren't the. I may not have the smartest. I may not have the best legal team.
- [21:52]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Yes. I remember talking to someone who was working at the time of the E. Jean Carroll case and spending a lot of time in the courtroom, and Elena Harbour was trying to signal to the legal team that she really admired them and that she thought Trump was kind of monstrous and disgusting, and she was trying to have a cake and eat it, but was aware of the fact that he was a user of women.
- [22:15]
Michael Wolff
And a toss to our sponsors.
- [22:18]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
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- [23:20]
Adam Grant
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- [24:06]
Ryan Reynolds
You a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price, so that means a half day. Yeah, give it a try@mintmobile.com switch upfront.
- [24:28]
Sleep Number Customer
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- [24:39]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
And Michael Wolff and I are back inside Trump's head again.
- [24:42]
Michael Wolff
There is always that bifurcation in Trump, people of them being absolutely abjectly worshipful and loyal to Trump and then out of the corner of their mouths telling an entirely opposite story. But I think the thing is, and it's important to Focus on, because this is the meaning of the, of the, of the Epstein relationship, is that his regard for and relationship with women is. Unacceptable in, in this moment in time. He is out of time. I mean, he is a throwback in a way that, that I think if people understood the full contours of it and the full force of his misogyny. Well, you know, I was going to say that they would have a different opinion, but I think people do understand it. That's the confusing thing.
- [25:53]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Well, and people appear to have forgiven Bill Clinton, too, for what appear to be similar proclivities. I mean, the difference with Bill Clinton is that he has a very different kind of wife, and he has the same wife. So Trump obviously went through Ivana, then he went through Marla Maples, and now he's with or with, without Melania Trump.
- [26:13]
Michael Wolff
Well, I would disagree. I'm not sure people forgave Bill Clinton in 1998 and 1999, but I don't think, I mean, I think Bill Clinton has come, come under a fairly profound reevaluation, and now he's not running for anything. He's out of, he's out of public life. There is no, you know, no, no issue here. But I don't think that Bill Clinton could be elected president in 2025.
- [26:49]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Really. I mean, I think Bill Clinton is still very much pulling in large speaker fees on the circuit, and I think people like hearing him speak.
- [26:58]
Michael Wolff
I bet those fees are considerably down from the 500,000 to near a million that he was once getting. I'll bet we're. I'll bet we don't break six figures anymore.
- [27:15]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
I'm going to find that out. I'm going to call his speakers bureau and ask if that's true. Certainly his speakers fees will be a lot higher than Larry Summers.
- [27:26]
Michael Wolff
I guess they always have been.
- [27:28]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Right. But I wonder if Larry Summers can even get a speaking gig anymore. He was Clinton's treasury secretary. I don't think anybody's paying to hear him speak right now. Let me put it this way. I called a friend last week and asked what he was up to, and he said, I'm just debooking Larry Summers from a speaking gig. Well, do the Clintons have the right or the ability to change the scheduling and say, well, this is all very well, but we have plans? Yeah.
- [27:52]
Michael Wolff
I mean, I would suspect that they'll move to quash the subpoenas and they'll do whatever procedural things that they, that they can do. And they, I don't know the procedures here. But I suspect they will certainly try not to appear before Congress.
- [28:12]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
So, Michael, as you've always been claiming, Epstein is the story that won't go away. We've now got a unanimous vote for the release of the files. We've got Marjorie Taylor Greene out there illuminating the cracks in maga. This does seem to reinforce Trump's lame duckery.
- [28:36]
Michael Wolff
To be a lame duck in your second term is inevitable. I think it's going to be unusual to see Donald Trump in that. In that mode, because to be a lame duck means that means you're losing power. You know the thing Donald Trump has all has become Donald Trump because he grabs power. He grabs power in an audacious way, and so audacious that people give it to him. And that's how he has been able to sustain being Donald Trump. This unstoppable force, this inevitable force. But now, when the other inevitable thing starts to happen, and it is inevitable, people, you start to lose power because people realize that the end is coming, and they have to position themselves to take power. And in order to take power, they have to diminish your own power. And this is, of course, people in your own party. It's not just the Democrats saying whatever the Democrats say. It is the people you, you depend on, the people whose loyalty your. You have famously commanded more loyalty than anyone else has ever commanded, and that's what makes you who you are. And now at this point, when you start to lose it and people start to challenge you, what do you do? Who do you become? So I think, I think we're going to see. And clearly, clearly this Epstein stuff, the thing that he did not want to happen and which he indicated in every way, stubbornly in, you know, he, he, he just dug himself in on, on this, and it happened. Release the Epstein files. Despite anything that he said, despite any arms that he twisted, any of the threats he would surely have been making, they did it anyway, and he was forced to go along. Oh, yeah, okay, me too. Me too. Yeah. Yeah.
- [31:06]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Well, it's interesting, you used the word audacity, which is an underrated characteristic for a politician. Clearly, he has it. You think of Barack Obama, who had it and launched his campaign against the advice of everybody in the party who kept saying, it's Hillary's turn, it's Hillary's turn. The thing that I was looking at the title of his book, the Audacity of Hope. Yeah. Yes, it was. But one thinks about the crew around Trump, all conscious of his lame duckery and the fact that he's losing Power and the Epstein files may be the beginning of the end or a nail in the coffin, however you want to describe it, and them then having to position themselves for it. And that must be a fascinating moment. And I do think that your old friend RFK Jr is clearly positioning himself for what would be a historic election were a Kennedy to come back into the White House.
- [32:08]
Michael Wolff
Well, I can tell you with an enormous amount of certainty that a Kennedy is not going, that this Kennedy is not going to come back into the White House. But I do believe you're right, that that is the fantasy he is, that he is currently operating under, that he has a chance to be this, you know, and let's, let's remember he's 72 years old, but he's.
- [32:34]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Well, he seems like a spring chicken compared to the current president and the.
- [32:38]
Michael Wolff
Former president, that he is going to be the MAGA candidate. And I think that there's a whole set of people who are, who are, who are imagining themselves to be, to be the MAGA person, the MAGA person independent of Trump. Now, this is all, of course, technically or on a political basis, how do you separate yourself from the heir apparent who is J.D. vance? And you go more rightward than J.D. vance can go. You embrace positions that are antithetical to Trump's Epstein. Epstein. Epstein would be, of course, one of those positions.
- [33:23]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
And you lean into their conspiracy theories about vaccines, which he's doing increasingly.
- [33:28]
Michael Wolff
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he is. I mean, he is off his rocker and has, as I said, I've known Bobby Kennedy since, since 1979, I believe. And he was off his rocker then, and he is off his rocker now.
- [33:48]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
We got lots of appreciative comments. When I asked you what you thought Robert Kennedy was doing when he left the room when he and Dr. Oz had been talking about reducing the price of GLP1s and the poor man with them collapsed and was led to the back of the white. Led to the back of the Oval Office, his legs in the air. Rfk, the Secretary for Health and Human Services, ran out of the room. And when I asked you what you thought he was doing, you said, I don't know, probably shooting up. It got a lot of. Well, it got a huge number of responses of people just laughing and saying thank.
- [34:26]
Michael Wolff
You know, we should go back to the circle, back to the, to the women thing here, because RFK Jr. Has had a long, long history of, of women's issues. And most recently, there is, of course, a memoir by a journalist who became intensely involved with you're talking about Olivia.
- [34:56]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Nuzzi, the former political correspondent of New York magazine, who's written a book about that digital relationship, and it's called American Canto. Have you read it? Have you seen it at all?
- [35:10]
Michael Wolff
I have not.
- [35:11]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
I did read her ex fiance's installment plan. Yes, yes, right. I know. For that, I'm not sure this story is relevant beyond the media, except perhaps for insight into RFK would be presidential candidates.
- [35:28]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, no. And also his. This is. So there's this memoir which is. Which will now duel with the memoir of Cheryl Hines, RFK Jr. S wife, which is. Has come out or is about to come out.
- [35:45]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Oh, I didn't. I missed that. I didn't realize Cheryl Hines had. So we can have dueling narratives of a digital version of RFK Jr and the real life version. I'm still stuck on Cheryl Hines's ad where she has RFK Jr. In the shower.
- [36:03]
Michael Wolff
I. I haven't. I have not seen this.
- [36:05]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
I will text.
- [36:06]
Michael Wolff
This is an ad for what?
- [36:07]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
It's an ad for Cheryl Hines's bath and body lotions. Of course. Of course. And it, of course, I can't remember what they're called, but it features her husband in the shower, but you never see his. Sylvia Plath would say turkey giblets because Cheryl's head is always in the way.
- [36:28]
Michael Wolff
But let's come back to this lame duck thing in what does Trump do? I mean, we know what other presidents have done, which is pretty much nothing, because they understand at some level that this is inevitable. And what, what, what can you do except grin and bear it? So what does it Trump do? A man who I can't see grinning and bearing his own loss of relevance and attention and importance.
- [37:08]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Are we coming back to it now? Are we coming back to it in another episode?
- [37:12]
Michael Wolff
I am just asking the question. But yes, I guess we can keep coming back to this because we'll have three years of it.
- [37:18]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
So that's our cliffhanger. How does Trump handle the lame irrelevance? Irrelevant.
- [37:25]
Michael Wolff
Don't count him out. Of course. Audacity of. Of desperation.
- [37:35]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
All right, so, Michael, we've got plenty of questions responding to your request for what should you ask Melania when you subpoena her?
- [37:44]
Michael Wolff
And just to say, I was on a long call with my lawyers this morning in which several of these questions, the ask Melania questions, came up with the lawyers thinking that they were very useful and insightful. So good. Please keep them coming.
- [38:06]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Good. Okay, so this is crowdsourcing questions for Melania.
- [38:09]
Michael Wolff
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- [40:32]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
And Michael and I are back. So here's one from Rebecca, Exxon Melania. This is for you to ask Oscar. In the mid-90s you were registered with an international bride service. Did you meet DJT at That time.
- [40:47]
Michael Wolff
Great. Very pivotal question. When did they. When did they meet? Where did they meet? Yes, absolutely.
- [40:55]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
And how did they meet? Okay, this is from at O A Lem. So perhaps that's o alumni. Who is the English teacher or advisor who taught you be best? I think we would like to know what. What political consultant came up with that idea for her.
- [41:19]
Michael Wolff
There is an ad campaign that she did in the late 90s, and it was. And it had the same thing. It was b. I have to look this up. What. What was it? I think it was a watch campaign. But let me come back to that. But it was exactly the thing. She clearly took this from that campaign.
- [41:47]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
I do hope that the Amazon documentary, which you have pointed out many times, she gets paid $40 million for, and then she gets 70% of the back.
- [41:58]
Michael Wolff
End, and then she gets $10 million per corporate sponsorship plug.
- [42:05]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Okay, so. So let's assume that that's a big payday for her. I do hope it actually traces her journey from a model immigrant to first lady, because it's a more interesting journey than Trump's in a way. And as you say, it's an unknowable journey. I mean, there are parts of it we don't.
- [42:26]
Michael Wolff
I mean, let's. Let's not get too hopeful here. I think it will gloss this. She became. I think it will tell the story of how overnight she became a supermodel and then. And then the girlfriend of Donald Trump's, when in fact she was, of course never a supermodel, hardly a model of much success at all, and then was kind of created by Donald Trump. But I don't think it is going to tell that story. I think it was going to tell the story that she very much wants to be told.
- [43:14]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Well, and this will be a chance for Brett Ratner, who, as we know, big movie director who got me to. To rehabilitate himself, too. Right.
- [43:22]
Michael Wolff
And he's an action hero. Movie director. So I suspect Melania will become an action hero.
- [43:28]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Well, she looks a little bit like an action figure.
- [43:31]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. No.
- [43:32]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
All right, so here's a question from Pat Rivers, 5910. Please ask Melania why didn't she do anything to help the children who are hired at Mar A Lago? She says, saw that their uniforms were short miniskirts, tight tops with the Mar? A Lago emblem on them. DJT's security team knew, too. Melania is this great champion for women and children. Total hypocrisy. And then she adds a very interesting, or I suppose Pat might be A man, but it feels like it's a woman. By the way, Florida law re massages is this. And this is pretty useful to know, especially for anybody who's been reading the Virginia Giuffre book Nobody's Girl. The person performing the massage must be 18 years old, plus must have a high school diploma, must have attended and passed a state accredited massage program with a minimum of 200 hours of clinical work with a program instructor with them at all times. It is illegal to hire anyone to give a massage without these. I didn't know that. I will say 200 hours seems quite a lot. Well, I guess it's 200 hours of clinical work. Right. There's nothing more disappointing than having a weak massage.
- [44:47]
Michael Wolff
I would say that one of the answers to that question is that Melania has never spent much time at Mar A Lago.
- [44:56]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Okay, fair enough. Well, you can certainly ask.
- [44:58]
Michael Wolff
We will ask. Yes.
- [45:00]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Yeah. Okay. Here's a question from Sally B. 1972. Could Michael ask Melania if, seeing as her husband does not feel shame, embarrassment, or humiliation, she feels it on his behalf?
- [45:17]
Michael Wolff
You know, I think it's a good question, and I think that that is part of probably the dynamic of this relationship. I think when your husband goes on trial for effectively his relationship or covering up his relationship with Stormy Daniels, I would say if you're his wife, that could be difficult to swallow.
- [45:42]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
All right, I'm going to add my own question here, Michael, which is I would like to know how old Melania was when she met Donald Trump and how old she was when she started modeling for Paolo Zampoli's agency.
- [45:56]
Michael Wolff
I'm sure we will pin that down without question.
- [45:59]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Excellent. Do you have any sense of when you're going to be able to ask her these questions?
- [46:05]
Michael Wolff
No, the process would be to ask everyone else these questions before asking her. So we would then know. We would be able to triangulate every one of her answers.
- [46:24]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
And are they allowed to talk to each other? Once you receive a subpoena for something, are they allowed to create their own story or are they, in theory, not allowed to talk to each other?
- [46:38]
Michael Wolff
No, no, I'm sure that they're allowed to talk to each other. But, you know, you're talking to a lot of people who have. Who are either talking to Melania, her friends or people who are not her friends who have other. You're trying to talk to everyone who can bring any kind of information to the questions at hand, and then you're going to confront her.
- [47:09]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Fascinating. Well, Michael, have a great weekend. We've got Thanksgiving next weekend, but that won't stop us from going inside Trump's head.
- [47:19]
Michael Wolff
It will.
- [47:20]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
It will not. It will not. In fact, it will encourage us because we might have a bit more spare time. So.
- [47:27]
Michael Wolff
Well, I will see you in this in the studio on Tuesday.
- [47:30]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
I will see you in the studio on Tuesday. Have a great weekend in your tobacco cardigan.
- [47:36]
Michael Wolff
No, no, this is. This is. I don't think this is tobacco.
- [47:40]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
I think it's tobacco. It could be a latterly cardigan.
- [47:43]
Michael Wolff
I think this is coffee, actually.
- [47:46]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
Coffee. Okay. It's a coffee colored cardigan, but it looks very good. And I'm assuming it was made in England or Scotland.
- [47:52]
Michael Wolff
Yes.
- [47:53]
Co-host (possibly a political commentator)
And thank you to our BBC tier of members. Andrea Hodel, Sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford, Heidi Riley, Karen White Bocock, D.C. val Love, Francisco Bonzo M. Griner, Sandra Clark, Las Conde, Fulvia Orlando, Andrew Mellor, Herbie.
- [48:10]
Michael Wolff
Thank you, Devon, Anna and Jesse.
- [48:16]
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Adam Grant
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- [49:16]
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- [49:59]
Michael Wolff
Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily.
- [50:04]
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Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this.
- [50:08]
Paige from Giggly Squad
Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership podcast and sign up today.