Podcast Summary: "Why Trump Can't Escape Epstein Forever: Wolff"

The Daily Beast Podcast
Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Michael Wolff
Date: January 9, 2026

Episode Overview

In this intense and wide-ranging episode, Joanna Coles and Michael Wolff dissect the ever-changing and increasingly volatile American political landscape during Trump’s second administration. They focus on the administration’s diversionary tactics, notably the invasion of Venezuela, the reemergence of unaddressed controversies like Jeffrey Epstein, the alarming centrality of figures such as Stephen Miller and RFK Jr., and the lack of public resistance to rising authoritarianism. Their conversation swings between dark humor, insider anecdotes, and deep unease at the drift of U.S. institutions and political discourse.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Escalation of Authoritarianism and the Veneer of Normalcy

• Opening Anxiety ([02:26–03:08]): Joanna and Michael agree: what was once inconceivable now feels commonplace—militarized ICE on U.S. streets, open talk of invading other countries, and escalating paramilitary actions at home.
  • "Are we slipping into an autocracy? Is this all slipping away from us?" — Joanna Coles (02:26)
  • "There is not the proper response to this... Even more off the rails than we thought it was going." — Michael Wolff (02:44)
• They lament the lack of mobilized public response compared to the 1960s, despite government actions that "begin to rival" that era ([05:04–05:38]).

2. The Disturbing Centrality of Stephen Miller

• Miller’s Rise ([06:39–09:42]): Coles reads from Wolff's substack, calling Stephen Miller uniquely threatening—described as “so ominous and so dark... he literally looks like Voldemort from the Harry Potter movies” ([06:39]).
• Wolff recounts Bannon introducing Miller in 2017 as "now this really is a fascist," underlining how someone previously marginalized now steers Trump’s core agenda.
  • "There is Stephen Miller, the most peculiar person in the first Trump White House, now the central person, second most important..." — Michael Wolff (09:09)
• Miller’s ideology is characterized as an "obsession," notably with purity, force, and power, and a prewar European mindset ([09:54–11:04]).
  • "We live in a world... governed by strength, governed by force, governed by power." — (quoting Miller, 10:57)

3. Venezuela & Greenland: Foreign Adventures as Distraction

• Trump’s Foreign "Victories" ([12:01–13:52]; [18:29–20:04]; [46:32–49:54]): The “takeover” of Venezuela and talk of Greenland are painted as classic Trumpian distractions, designed to shift focus from scandals like Epstein.
  • "He has done what he always manages to do, which is to change the subject through a fundamental reordering of the narrative..." — Michael Wolff (43:29)
  • The invasions target smaller, easier "prey," echoing early WWII strategies, but lack meaningful planning.
• Joanna speculates: “China and Russia must just be sitting, rocking back and forth, laughing at this,” seeing America dissolve itself ([04:27]).

4. The Perpetual Specter of Epstein

• Unreleased Files, Delayed Reckoning ([01:32–01:32]; [43:14–46:18]):
  • Wolff and Coles stress that the Epstein scandal "never goes away" and that purposeful distraction (like the Venezuela incursion) helps Trump escape consequences.
  • Only a "tiny fraction" of the files have been released; survivors are furious, and even Republican critics are demanding action.
    • "As far as I can understand, they've only released 1% of them. And... the survivors are absolutely furious..." — Joanna Coles (45:25)

5. Contempt for the Media and Manufacturing Reality

• Trump and the Press ([15:49–19:41]): Joanna draws a vivid image of NYT reporters interviewing Trump, likening it to guards surrounding a violent criminal. Wolff sees them as dogs awaiting scraps.
  • "They all look like dogs waiting for a bone. Well, he's the master. And there they sit at his feet." — Michael Wolff (16:25)
• They bemoan the mainstream media's deadpan normalization of outrageous events ("Maybe they think they're rendering this... in some kind of deadpan language," 18:29).
• The duo reflect on the collapse of presidential credibility—a “credibility gap” surpassing even Vietnam-era lies, yet paradoxically strengthening Trump ([14:41–15:36]).

6. Kennedys, RFK Jr., and the Rise of the Eccentric Outsiders

• RFK Jr. as Maverick Challenger ([23:29–24:54] and throughout): The hosts debate RFK Jr.’s “craziness,” contrasting his unpredictable beliefs, outsider status, and confounding popular appeal (“just because he’s a Kennedy”).
• Normies Ousted ([25:44–26:36]): Trump’s inner circle is now "the bottom of the barrel," as all the “normies were washed out, leaving only the strange people, the peculiar people, the toadies, the lackeys..."

7. Generational Turnover in Politics

• Steny Hoyer’s Retirement, Seth Moulton, and Democratic Future ([26:36–34:09]):
  • The old guard’s entrenchment is dissected—Hoyer stepping down at 86 exemplifies overdue churn.
  • Discussing Moulton’s cross-party appeal, ex-military background, and the Democratic Party’s struggle to represent new constituencies.

8. Political Indoctrination in Schools

• Turning Point USA and Club America ([40:37–43:14]):
  • Coles and Wolff critique the right’s push to organize high school students under the Club America banner; both agree U.S. politics should stay out of high schools.
  • "Here's something that seems patently something we don't want... politicize high school." — Michael Wolff (41:09)

9. Trivialization and Trumpification of U.S. Institutions

• Smithsonian and Beyond ([53:32–54:51]):
  • The Trump era’s penchant for putting his stamp on major cultural institutions is decried.
  • "Why stop with one institution when they can all be Trump’s such and such?" — Michael Wolff (54:19)

10. Lingering Sense of Doom and Absence of Resistance

• How Bad Is It? ([55:48–58:11]):
  • Coles asks for a 1–10 rating of American prospects; Wolff unequivocally answers "10." The hosts agree: "We have reached an outside limit of anything that the nation has ever experienced and it continues to get worse."
  • "I would have said we were at number 10 before Venezuela. Now we're in Venezuela—or not in Venezuela, or something." — Wolff (57:12)
• They marvel at the absence of genuine mobilization: "What is the moment in which too much is too much? What is the moment in which... there is some response to this?" — Michael Wolff (54:51)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You can’t spend five minutes with Miller and not understand there is something wrong with him. Some point on the spectrum where he dwells alone… He looks like Voldemort from the Harry Potter movies.” — Joanna Coles (reading Wolff, 06:39)
• "Even Trump called him 'Crazy Stephen'... But there Stephen Miller is, the most peculiar person... now the central person, second most important person in the Trump White House." — Michael Wolff (09:09)
• "It's not only about not assuming responsibility…it's direct, outright lies... in this mortal situation... we have this paramilitary internal police force who can do no wrong." — Michael Wolff (13:52)
• "We are at the outside limit of anything the nation has ever experienced, and it continues to get worse." — Michael Wolff (57:12)

Important Timestamps

• [02:26] – Opening anxiety: “Autocracy,” militarization, missed public response.
• [06:39] – Coles reads Wolff on Stephen Miller’s psychology and power.
• [09:42] – Miller’s anti-immigrant obsession and ideological roots.
• [13:52] – Trump’s mischaracterization of Minneapolis ICE shooting.
• [16:25] – Trump and NYT: metaphor of dogs and the master.
• [18:29] – Media’s normalization of abnormality.
• [23:29] – RFK Jr.’s popularity: Kennedy legacy vs. “craziness.”
• [25:44] – Trump’s team: “bottom of the barrel.”
• [26:36] – Steny Hoyer’s retirement and generational stagnation.
• [41:09] – Club America: right-wing high school activism.
• [43:29] – Venezuela as narrative distraction from Epstein, deeper crises.
• [45:25] – Epstein file release: survivors’ anger, Republican calls for action.
• [54:19] – Trumpification of U.S. institutions.
• [55:48] – Wolff: “10 out of 10” on how bad it is.

Tone and Style

Direct, unsparing, and darkly witty—Coles and Wolff alternate between jaded humor and palpable alarm. They’re self-aware, referencing their own privilege and professional struggles, while maintaining a sharp, conversational style immersed in both pop culture and history.

For New Listeners

This episode offers a brisk, incisive, and often unsettling look at the state of U.S. democracy, the normalization of authoritarian tactics, and the uncanny resilience of unresolved scandals like Epstein’s. Michael Wolff’s anecdotes and Joanna Coles’s media savvy ground the commentary in both personal experience and institutional critique. If you want an unvarnished perspective—one that’s skeptical of both the Trump machinery and media complacency—this conversation delivers.

Next Episode Preview:
Coles and Wolff promise updates on Melania and continued tracking of developments in both U.S. domestic and foreign policy, as well as recurring controversies that refuse to die.

For the full conversation, including quips and side anecdotes, check out the episode on The Daily Beast’s podcast feed or YouTube channel.