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- [00:00]
Tom Sykes
Presidents, they come and go. Who cares? Charles was able to go, I'm the king. I have this entirely unique kind of power and celebrity that Donald Trump responded really well to. And Donald Trump enjoyed, I think, rolling out the red carpet for him.
- [00:18]
Joanna Coles
I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. And what a historic week we have seen for King Charles. Coming with the weight of the world, the Western world, the free world on his shoulders. Dispatched by the British government to ensure that the special relationship between the UK and the US Remains intact, an ergo NATO remains intact, he came amid all sorts of speculation that this was a terrible waste of his time, that he was going to be mocked and used as Donald Trump's stooge. And in fact, so far, and we're recording this on Wednesday morning, the day after, he made two stellar SPE speeches, the visit could not have gone better. Both men, the President and the King, appear to have got on very well. King Charles's speech managed to unify the House, or unify the House, as Melania might say. But what a moment when you saw repeated standing ovations in the House of Congress from both sides of the House. Not something we've seen for a long time. And I will say it gave me a real. It gave me a jolt of optimism that we will get through what feels like sometimes a very dark time in America. Anyway, who better to discuss this with than Tom Sykes, who is the Royalist and has been the royal correspondent for the Daily Beast for many, many years. No one has better information than Tom. But before we talk to him, I just want to ask you to press the subscription button. We are independent media. It's why we can bring you these sometimes off the wall conversations. It's why Michael Wolff and I dive into Don Trump's head three times a week, because of your support. So we really appreciate it. And now, no more time to waste. Let's get into it with Tom Sykes about what was going on in that speech. And then, of course, even more interestingly, the weird shifts of power in the Windsor family, as not only Prince Harry but Prince William appear to upstage their own father during the most important week of the year. We are thrilled that you are in our New York studio and you are here to groom us. All the conniptions and the complications of being a British royal, because on the one hand, we've got King Charles doing what appears to be a stellar diplomatic job, and then on the other, we've got his kids trying to upstage him. No one knows more about this than you do. You're an incredible reporter for the Royal Family. I know you're a bit of a toff secretly, so you hang in the same circles. And Tom, you know, give us a sense of what's happening in this family right now.
- [03:21]
Tom Sykes
Well, I mean, this family, they never cease to amaze one, do they, Joanna? So here we are. It is, you know, the day after Charles's fantastic speech to the joint session of Congress. Historic speech, widely praised, standing ovations across the aisle. Donald Trump saying that he's jealous of his speech. Another fantastic speech at the state dinner. He gave him the special bell from the old submarine. You know, made a little Batman joke. If you never need us, give us a ring. You know, it was. It was all fantastic. It was all going to so perfectly. So what of course, had to happen then was of course, that Meghan and Harry had to chuck a bag of spanners into the works with an incredibly unfairly timed front page story on the COVID of People magazine, you know, about how they won't be ruled by the Royal Family anymore. They're stepping into their destiny. They're doing their own thing. And equally. Well, perhaps not quite equally, because William and Catherine are the future of the Royal family. I mean, they are part of the institution. But they have Today released a 15th wedding anniversary photo of them and their kids on holiday in Cornwall. It's a lovely, lovely photo. It's kind of neo Victorian in a way. It sort of very much speaks to the big fecund family, the continuation of the line, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The problem is, is it's going to knock Charles off the top of news feeds and off the top of the front pages. And what Charles is doing today is arguably. Well, it's not arguably. It is the most sombre part of the tour, which is that he is going to the 911 memorial. You know, by the time this podcast goes out, he will have visited the 911 memorial, and we will have seen him at the 911 memorial. And it just. It's so. I just find Harry and Meghan's behavior so unbelievably cruel. Actually, Joanna, I just think here is his father finally stepping into his destiny. Finally. No one's saying Charles is a laughingstock. Charles is a joke. Charles talks to trees and, you know, knits his own yogurt. And what does Harry have to do?
- [05:46]
Joanna Coles
Knits his own yogurt. What a brilliant description. I love that. I've never heard that before. It's fantastic. Tom, this is why we love you,
- [05:54]
Tom Sykes
as our royalist, you're very kind.
- [05:57]
Joanna Coles
Have Meghan and Harry, or Harry and Meghan done this on purpose?
- [06:01]
Tom Sykes
Okay. An incredibly good question. You would have to say, yes, absolutely nothing happens by accident in the Royal family. And the issue with the William and Kate thing is, I think, very, very interesting, because William and Kate were very annoyed when they went to Saudi Arabia. Sorry, I apologize. Only William went to Saudi Arabia. And the day before William left, all the journalists had already arrived in Saudi Arabia. And this was at the peak of sort of Epstein stuff about six weeks ago. And they were all saying, is William going to make a statement? Is he going to make a statement? It was timed as William got onto the plane to go to Saudi Arabia. William's office put out a statement saying that William and Catherine deplored Andrew's behavior and that they were horrified by the revelations from the Epstein files. Having begged Charles to do something like that for. For weeks, and Charles having refused to do it, they finally reached a point where they were like, this is going to derail our whole tour because everybody's just going to be asking us about Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. As William comes down the steps, literally as he comes down the steps of the British Airways aircraft landing at Riyadh Airport, Charles issues a statement saying, I want the police to investigate. Andrew. I'm told that there were scenes of absolute chaos at Riyadh Airport. Photographers who, as you know, Joanna, at the best of times, are always terrified that they're in the wrong place or just booked their flights home because they were like, andrew's going to be lifted, Andrew's going to be arrested, and we're going to miss the pitch. We're here watching William kick a blooming football in the desert. And I do, I cannot help feeling that there is a little bit of revenge in this photo that William and Catherine have put out today.
- [08:10]
Joanna Coles
It seems so petty that one can't quite believe it. Tom.
- [08:16]
Tom Sykes
Well, you know, as somebody who worked closely with the Royal family once told me, don't forget, they do all hate each other. And I think that's an important thing to remember. And it's not that they personally hate each other. It was an exaggeration and a joke by my friend. But the point is, is that the people working for them, the courts that work for them, are incredibly bitchy, incredibly keen to always get one up on each other. And, you know, ultimately, though, this photo would not have gone out today. I mean, it is their 15th wedding anniversary, so in a way, would it have been weird? I don't think it would have been. I think it would have been such a masterstroke, actually, to hold it till Friday or Saturday for the weekend when Charles got back, have a little briefing saying, we didn't want to overshadow Charles. I mean, I would have thought that would be a massive PR win. Demonstrate unity, demonstrate. Everyone's on the same page. So I think, in a way, the William and Catherine photo does allude to these tensions within the royal court. And, yes, William and Catherine are the future of the royal family. Yes, this is about the continuation of the monarchy. So it's a slightly different register to what Harry and Meghan are doing, which is like a front page of people, you know, saying, basically, screw you, dad, we hate you. We're gonna do whatever the hell we like. It is a different register and it's more subtle. But it's not very helpful for the King because he wants to be on the front pages this week. And that photo is going to knock him off them.
- [09:55]
Joanna Coles
Yeah. You would think that they might have coordinated it, because if they hadn't put a photo out, certainly the British press would have said, oh, my goodness, there's trouble in paradise. They're not marking their 15th wedding anniversary. We all remember it. And this is weird that they're not doing that. But perhaps the King could have released the photo in celebration of his oldest son's wedding anniversary. But I can see that they would have to release a photo. But for Meghan and Harry, or for Harry and Meghan, I don't know which comes first to do the COVID of People. They must have also thought, we want to upstage. Or, let me ask it a different way. Do you think they were thinking, oh, it's Kate and William's 15th anniversary this year. We want to upstage them, because they will get a lot of attention for that.
- [10:52]
Tom Sykes
I think absolutely. Joanna, I think you're absolutely right. And I think it's. You know, I think that probably. I think you. Probably you could make a charit if you were going to be charitable to Harry and Meghan. Although it's an odd form of charity, you would say this is actually about their feud with William and Catherine, which is the point that you're making. And they obviously have a great deal of bad blood. They don't talk to each other. Harry does talk to his father now and again. You know, his father has seen him, has received him for tea. There are ongoing negotiations about whether Harry can spend more time in the United Kingdom. There are a lot of rumors that Harry is planning to move back in some form to the United Kingdom. Whether it's on his own part time, we don't quite know. So Charles is. Look, Joanna, Charles dearest wish is to be reconciled with his son. You know, that is his dearest wish. And his second dearest wish is that his two sons be reconciled.
- [11:58]
Joanna Coles
But they're in the same country together right now. Why isn't Harry bringing Lilibet and Archie to meet the King? Even if they were to meet, because Charles has spent barely any time with his grandchildren. Right. Archie and Lilibet. Let me tell you about Honeylove. They're a shapewear and intimate apparel company. We're getting personal and they're designed with comfort in mind. Their bras are super supportive and totally wire free. And the crossover contour bra creates a really clean shape shape without feeling restrictive. And the cloud embrace bra is soft, it's lightweight, and it's comfortable enough to wear all day. Same with the shapewear. It doesn't roll down, it moves with you and it smooths without squeezing the life out of you. So treat yourself to bras and shapewears you'll actually want to wear. Get 20% off@honeylove.com Daily Beasts that's honeylove.com Daily Beast again. Honeylove.com Daily Beast for 20% off. And after checkout, tell them we sent you. Experience the new standard in comfort and support with Honey Love.
- [13:21]
Tom Sykes
Look, it's a valid observation and one that's been made a lot online and on social media, that the King should make some time while he's here. Realistically, that's not how a state visit works. A state visit, actually, they're sort of legally prohibited from undertaking personal action. There always used to be a lot of controversy when Harry used to tack on a stopover in Canada to see Meghan at the end of a state visit and stuff like that. But more than the legal side, just the practical side, A, a state visit like this has been well over a year in the planning. It's not like Meghan's recent trip to Australia thrown together from a text at the kitchen table. From Marcus Anderson to his mate in this is incredibly carefully planned. There are literally thousands of people involved in the United States because there's this huge network of unpaid volunteers and just supporters of the royals. You know, there's this huge gala tonight for the King's trust. We're going to see Anna Wintour there. We're going to see, you know, every British president. Sadly, my invitation seems to have been lost in the post I'm not quite sure why, but, you know, I think we know why.
- [14:31]
Joanna Coles
I think we know why. Or even more of a thorn in Buckingham palace side than Harry and Meghan, I think.
- [14:38]
Tom Sykes
But I think the point is that it wouldn't be appropriate to break into a state visit. And also the headline, it would detract from the message, it would detract from the headlines. And also I think the bigger point is that actually it is down to Harry and Meghan to bring the children over to visit the King at the King's home. Security can be perfectly easily provided. I know for a fact that invitations have been made to them to come over and visit the King. But the negotiations just get stuck because everybody says, well, I want to do this, I want to do that, I want to do the other. I don't want to be controlled, we don't want you doing this, blah, blah, blah. And so it ends over and over again in this kind of stalemate. But I do think that we are going to see Harry coming to the UK in July for his Invictus Games. He very much wants to bring Meghan and the children. They're lobbying in the newspapers for an invitation to Sandringham, the King's country home in Norfolk. I don't think they're going to get that, but I think that if they are in the UK with the whole family, I think that the pressure on the King to meet them all will be irresistible. And I think that'll be very valuable commercially to Meghan, frankly.
- [15:54]
Joanna Coles
Okay, so let's talk about what the King got right, because I think there was a lot of criticism of his speech before he got here. A lot of people saying he shouldn't come, both on the States side and in the uk. And yet so far, and I understand it's not over, but so far he seems to have exceeded all expectations with two incredibly well written, very subtle speeches. Well, maybe not so subtle to Congress, but very clear he wants the relationship to continue, that he supports democracy and so should America, that there are darker forces out there and that he believes America should support Ukraine, which got a standing ovation from both Republicans and Democrats, which I don't think anyone could have predicted, especially with J.D. vance and Mike Johnson, who was sitting behind him when he gave speech to Congress, leaping to their feet and applauding him as vociferously as they did.
- [16:55]
Tom Sykes
It was a fabulous speech. It was a brilliant speech. I was talking to Michael Daly just when I came in here this morning, and he was making the point that it managed to Hit these points. NATO, Ukraine, reconciliation. Words that do not cross Donald Trump's lips in an approving fashion without sounding hectoring, without sounding lecturing. It had the humor, it had the bit of fun, it had the jokes. You know, there was this very good line actually, at the dinner later where he said, you know, he was talking about American technological innovation. And he said. He said, and of course, been wonderful to watch the progress of Artemis 2 around the moon, or as we refer to it in our family, Artemis ii. You know, it was. The whole thing was just perfectly judged. I thought it was really good. It was really good. It was so well judged.
- [17:49]
Joanna Coles
Was perfect.
- [17:50]
Tom Sykes
It was. Do you know what, Joanna? Perfect is the word. It was perfect. And it was so clever because it gave Trump enough. It said, look, we accept that we have not done enough on defense. We are gonna spend more on defense. We are spending more on defense. But at the same time, it said, we're friends, we're on the same side, guys. Let's not let a little local difficulty get in the way of this fantastic relationship, like, you know, World War II, you know, come on. Like, we have done so much together. And he had this other very clever line where he said, we don't just work together out of sentiment. We work together because it benefits our nations. And he used this brilliant British phrase, by Jove, look what we've achieved when we work together.
- [18:38]
Joanna Coles
I love that. Do you have a sense of how long it took to write that speech?
- [18:44]
Tom Sykes
It was written for him largely by the government. His press used to work at the Daily Mail with his communications officer, his guy called Tobin Andre. He's very, very. Although I've had a little local difficulty myself with. Tobin is a brilliant writer, an absolutely brilliant writer and a very, very funny man, and has a great turn of phrase, and there's a lot of stuff I recognize in there of Tobin's. And so I congratulate him, and I congratulate the king and I congratulate the speechwriting team. It was a brilliant, brilliant speech. It brought the House down. The speech that he gave at the dinner was perhaps even more. It was a little looser. It was a little funner, you know, because he gave the speech to Congress at 3pm and then he gave the speech at the dinner at 8:30pm they
- [19:42]
Joanna Coles
must have been exhausted. I thought, the king's already given one speech, a very important speech, where essentially the future of NATO is on his shoulders as he addresses Congress. Then he goes to give another speech at the state dinner with Donald Trump. At this point, he must be exhausted, jet lagged. It's two in the morning for him and the Queen. And of course, Trump is about to hit 80. The king is in his mid-70s. What was the energy level like?
- [20:14]
Tom Sykes
So, as we know, the King has been having treatment for cancer. It's not something you read a great deal about in the UK media, but for various reasons that we don't need to burden our listeners with right now. But I can tell you, Joanna, I've actually got some really interesting exclusive information on that front. So I found out that Charles was. The treatment that he was having in the run up to Christmas was a. The core of the treatment was a weekly injection of an incredibly novel and very, very expensive combination of immunotherapy and RNA drugs, which of course both famously associated with the COVID vaccine. Absolutely cutting edge experimental stuff. And you'll remember that at Christmas the King gave a speech saying that the treatment was going incredibly well and that he was going to be able to cut back on the treatment. That is absolutely correct. We should take the King at his word on what he said there. I have been told by someone who knows that they are incredibly impressed at how the treatment has worked and there is now a great deal of optimism amongst the palace, amongst his family, amongst his circle, that the King can carry on for many, many years hence if everything goes right. And of course, when people talk about this, they always say it with the proviso, but of course, with cancer, things can change very, very quickly. But I think there's no denying that there is a massive sense of optimism now that maybe we have come through what looked like an existential storm. I also do think that the King and I know we were talking about him being exhausted last night, but he wasn't exhausted, was he? He was energized. He was full of beans. Camilla looked pretty wrecked, to be honest, but he looked, he looked like he was stepping into the role that he's been waiting for and born to do his whole life. And it was wonderful to see and it's part of the reason I just feel so annoyed at Meghan and Harry doing their stupid People magazine cover this morning. I mean, what a mean, stupid, horrible, mean spirited thing to do. But that said, I thought that Charles, I thought he had so I thought he was brilliant. And now I will say that when you see him out and about, he goes up and down. Like sometimes he looks really knackered and sometimes he doesn't. And I'm told a lot of that is to do with treatments and steroids and things, of course, that people, you know, who've been through this will be familiar with. But I also think, and I just want to say this, that Charles has been so courageous, he's been so brave. And I think that actually the great tonic for him has been getting out and doing the job. He's done something like 550 engagements in the last year with cancer. I mean, it's incredible. Like a friend of mine was with him recently, a performance, I think it was ballet or something. And he stayed until after midnight talking to the. Talking, you know, to the people involved in the production. I mean, it's really, really incredible. And I think for people who are living with cancer, more and more of us are living with cancer. More and more of us have friends or family who are living with cancer. I think it is tremendously inspiring, a tremendous example. I think that it was handled badly originally, if I'm totally frank, but I think that in the long run it's come good and, you know, long live the King, basically.
- [24:02]
Joanna Coles
Well, it was hard to imagine two more impressive back to back performances yesterday. So much riding on it. It made it look like the monarchy was able to rise well above politics. And also, Donald Trump, for once in his life, seemed in awe of the power of the King. I mean, not the literal power, but his brand, which is so good. And of course, Donald Trump is a showman. He loves a show. No one puts on a show better than the royals. Certainly they put on a fantastic show when he was there for his state visit in September, which you covered so well for us. But yesterday, I mean, what's fascinating is that when you see King Charles and Camilla next to Donald Trump and Melania, both of who are physically imposing, both of whom are impressive, Melania is very elegant. Donald Trump is tall and he's big. The King and the Queen nevertheless emanated a sort of confidence. And you could feel that Donald Trump was almost himself quite sweaty in the reflection of their confidence and their poise and dignity. And you suddenly saw the reason for a royal family, the ability of that, the power of that soft power, as it's called, diplomatic power, to really metaphorically put arms together and link against the bad guys. And who knows if it will last with Donald Trump. But one gets the sense that he is genuinely impressed by the King and wants to, to be liked by the King. And we know that. We've written stories saying that actually Donald Trump writes regularly to the King, which was something the Queen did with some of the presidents, but he started doing that swapping little notes about his family. And you felt like here was a man in the King Charles III who actually could bring Donald Trump a little bit to heal.
- [26:08]
Tom Sykes
Yes, I mean, you did feel like that until you woke up in the morning and saw Donald Trump post a picture of himself as the Terminator, saying, you know, now's your last chance to obey. So classic.
- [26:24]
Joanna Coles
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- [28:22]
Tom Sykes
Do you know what I think is so clever about? I think that what people have said over and over again is, oh, Charles is just a sort of lick spittle and he's going out there to flatter them and it's, you know, blah, blah. But actually the genius of this trip is that Charles is allowing himself to be flattered by Trump. And that is it's a really delicate balance and it's a really Delicate relationship. And it's. It feels to me like the great advantage of the hereditary, you know, the hereditary head of state, like Keir Starmer, you know, he's a busted flush. Everyone in the UK is sick of Keir Starmer anyway. I mean, they're as sick of him as Donald Trump is. Like, even the Labour Party, the only reason they're keeping him on is so they can blame everything on him when the elections go wrong in a couple of weeks time. But, you know, like, prime ministers come and go, presidents elected president of the Republic of Ireland or France, they come and go, who cares? Like, Charles was able to go and Mike, great, great, great, great grandfather, or 250 years ago, or just the other day, as we call it, round my parts, you know, and so he was very much able to lean in to I'm the king. You know, it was almost like, I'm the emperor, I'm the. Do you know what I mean? I have this entirely different kind, entirely unique kind of power and celebrity that Donald Trump responded really well to. And Donald Trump enjoyed, I think, rolling out the red carpet for him. And I was on a show last night and they had one of Donald Trump's former press secretaries on, and this person was saying that Donald Trump is very much like a host. Like, he loves hosting, he loves showing off his hosting skills, he loves rolling out there, he loves having his big hotel and his big ballroom and impressing you and you going, my God, this wine is delicious, or this food is delicious, or what have you. And. And so it's bringing out the, you know, the essence of the special relationship is not just about me saying, oh, you're marvelous, or you saying, I'm marvellous. It's about us both being able to hopefully be better people.
- [30:30]
Joanna Coles
So what are you hearing about Charles? What are you hearing about William and Kate? They're celebrating their 15th wedding anniversary. We're recording this on Wednesday morning. US time. Is William champing at the bit to get going? Does he want to make big changes to the royal family? What are you hearing about how he plans to eventually pick up the royal orb, as it were?
- [31:01]
Tom Sykes
Well, I think there's a certain amount of disquiet in Charles Court that William has spoken quite a lot about what he plans to do when he is king, which Charles, to be fair, did not do when his mother was the Queen. He certainly wouldn't have given interviews saying, change is coming, change is good, which William has done. We know, I know that William is very unhappy about the way that Charles dealt with Andrew, and he fears that Charles is now making the same mistakes all over again, with Prince Harry being too conciliatory, being vacillating, being too weak, etc, etc, and William's position, you know, not official, but what we can make out from friends and sources and contacts is that there needs to be a complete and total exile of Prince Harry, up to possibly up to and including the removal of the titles, the formal removal of the titles. Now, that is very much the nuclear option. Charles is much more of the view that, you know, it all needs to be resolved and the boys need to shake hands and boys will be boys and, you know, let's get over it. But the problem is, Joanna, is that when Charles announced that he had cancer, and it was very, very badly managed, the announcement, right, because he initially said that he was going for benign prostate enlargement treatment. Then when he was having that treatment, they discovered the cancer. By that stage, too many people knew, so they kind of bounced themselves into announcing it really quickly. So they announced that he had cancer three days after the King discovered it. Now, if you or I discovered we had cancer, we would take more than three days to tell our family, do you know what I mean? Let alone tell the whole blooming world. And so what happens as a result of that? And you'll see this in every Shakespeare play, every Game of Thrones, every, you know, Hillary Mantel, when the King is dying, the power shifts to the air, because guess what? People have jobs, people have mortgages, people have school fees to pay, you know, and also, if you are the patron of a organization that is reliant on the royals, frankly, it would be remiss of you not to start planning for the succession if you know that the King is really ill, right? It's like. It's just. That's what you have to do. So there was this massive power shift to William in the early days of that announcement. And I certainly did get the impression that whilst champing at the bit might be slightly, not the sense that I got at all, there was certainly a readiness to embrace the change, to accept the challenge if the ball came loose from the back of the scrum, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, now what's happening now that Charles is saying, I'm fine, everything's fine, as we saw. And as I was telling you earlier, I am hearing that independently from other sources as well. So the treatment has worked very, very well and that he is in decent health. There is now an attempt to wrest the power back, and that is Difficult because the core of William suddenly thought that they had all the power and now guess what? They don't. And Charles is trying to take it back. And Charles is trying to impose his discipline and he is saying, look, I'm the King. This is the way it's going to be. I want to reconcile with Harry and you are going to have to like it or lump it. So it is a really interesting dynamic at the moment between William and Charleston. Again, it's not something you're going to read about in the UK legacy media because they can't afford to anger the King's press office. But it is something that we here in America have a bit more latitude, always respectfully, but, you know, we have a bit more latitude to report about and tell people what's actually really going on.
- [35:00]
Joanna Coles
Okay, so that's very interesting analysis, Tom. How does Andrew, formerly known as Prince Andrew, play into this? And what are we expecting? Are we expecting charges over his friendship with Geoffrey episode? Epstein, where is that hanging now? That's a terrible phrase. Where is that hanging? Where is that situation right now?
- [35:25]
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- [35:56]
Tom Sykes
What I am expecting, I'm afraid through years of having seen how this family operate is that in about six months time, the police will announce that actually they don't have enough evidence to proceed and the whole thing will be quietly forgotten. Especially if Charles is still hale and hearty and running the ship and running the operation. The royal family do not want this anywhere near a courtroom. They want this kept a million miles from a courtroom, if possible. They covered up for Andrew for years. Charles was all over that payment to Virginia Giuffre, which was a gagging order. He directly contributed 1.5 million pounds towards it, about $2 million. There's been a massive effort by his staff to blame the whole thing on Queen Elizabeth. Queen Elizabeth in the last few months of her life when that settlement was made. It's absurd to think that she was over, you know, that Charles wasn't over every detail. $14 million settlement. I know. $14 million doesn't sound like very much for legal settlement to our American readers. But you have to remember, in the uk, this is a staggering sum of money.
- [37:04]
Joanna Coles
It's still a pretty staggering sum of money, even by American standards. It's the same that ABC and CBS were paying to Trump. So believe you me, that's still a staggering stump. And it's a staggering sum for a prince who said that he had no memory ever of meeting Virginia Giuffre.
- [37:26]
Tom Sykes
Yeah, and the reality is that the whole payment was plumbed through the Royal Office. The Keeper of the Privy Purse was involved in the payments. Michael Stevens, a very, very close ally of Charles's at the time, he was the Keeper of the Privy Purse. He stayed in post after Charles became King. So the idea, you know, as has been put about, that the Queen just did this off her own initiative and, you know, left an unexploded bomb under Charles's throne was one way that, you know, it's been described at one stage. I mean, just complete nonsense. I mean, I actually know one of the last non family members to spend a significant amount of time with Queen Elizabeth in the last few months of her death. And this was in the run up to the Coronation, actually. So the settlement was signed in February with Virginia Giuffre. About the same time, interestingly, the Queen issued a statement saying that Camilla should be Queen, obviously, Charles dearest wish. So, you know, it was convenient not to have that overshadowed by Andrew ending up in being deposed. But of course, the bigger issue was the coronation that we were told at the time that they didn't want it to overshadow the Coronation, not the Coronation, the Jubilee. Forgive me. So, but yeah, I do know somebody who spent some time with the Queen, a considerable amount of time in probably June, sort of in the run up, May or June, in the run up to the Jubilee. And before they went in to see her, they were told, listen, I want to warn you, she can't really see very much, she can hear almost nothing, she can't move, she uses a wheelchair. They weren't told that she was spending a lot of time in bed, but she was, I believe. But they weren't specifically told that. And they were also told very interestingly, and you have to remember that she drops in and out of the past a bit. So, you know, this is obviously entirely normal. She was an incredible woman, gave decades and decades of service, 96 years old. It's not surprising. But of course it's different to the perception that was put out because the Queen Understood what Charles doesn't understand that that didn't understand before that you can never admit frailty as a monarch. You are a divine being. You are going to live forever. You are the exception to the rule. You are going to live forever. And then when you die, boom, it has to go directly to the next person overnight, because otherwise you have all this instability, which is what you're seeing at the moment with these battles between William and Charles and their courts, et cetera, et cetera. But the point really that I'm making is that Charles was all over that payment.
- [40:20]
Joanna Coles
Wow. Well, Tom, it's so good to get your perspective on things here. And we will obviously be watching the family as they continue to, I guess, nitpick at each other and continue to try and upstage each other. What comes next for Charles after this visit?
- [40:40]
Tom Sykes
I anticipate a bit of downtime. The next big set piece, of course, will be the trooping of the Colour, the monarch's official birthday. We're expecting him to keep a fairly low profile, bit of recuperation for the next few weeks. But then the really big thing is Prince Harry is coming to England on early July. We understand that he wants to bring Meghan and the children with him. This is a declaration of war. They are saying, we are still members of the working family, we are going to do whatever we like. We are not subject to your discipline. You know, service is universal. We are going to do our service, blah, blah, blah. And it is going to be an SH1T show.
- [41:27]
Joanna Coles
Tom, are they still on the British payroll, Meghan and Harry?
- [41:31]
Tom Sykes
No.
- [41:32]
Joanna Coles
So what does it even mean, them doing work as royals?
- [41:36]
Tom Sykes
Well, exactly. So they do not represent the royal family in any way. But what they want to do is they want to do the kind of gigs that are typically associated with the royals, such as going to the Kiev Defense Conference or going to the wreath laying in Australia. The last post in Australia. It's absolutely, you know, going to a hospital visit in Australia. I mean, you have to be saying, if you want to go around visiting hospitals in Australia, why did you leave the Royal family? I mean, come on, you know, that's what they do. And so what they're trying to do is they're trying to position themselves as royals. They're trying to say that they are effectively royals. And again, there was this very interesting video when they were in Australia of a staffer coming over and touching Harry on the back of the shoulder and Meghan giving what can only be described as terrible death stare to this staffer. Is A woman called Sarah Fosma, who, you know, pretty tough cookie, used to work for the Gates foundation, you know, not famed for being a place for snowflakes. And I'm sure it won't have bothered Sarah one bit, but, you know, but the reason for that, that I was told by a source that she was so angry about the staffer touching Harry, was because royals are not supposed to be touched, Right? They're not supposed to be touched by other people. So Meghan and Harry, Meghan particularly, is trying to create this branding thing around them that they are still royal, because ultimately, that's the only reason anyone wants to buy their jam. Like, people aren't buying their jam because they think Meghan's got, you know, nice hair or whatever. They're buying it because she's a member of the Royal family. That's the only reason anyone cares. And the further they get from the Royal family, the more the harder it is for them to sell their brand. So they are very much trying to position themselves back as royals again. So Harry was in Ukraine last week, and he was asked by Chris Shipp of itv, are you still a working royal? And he basically said, yes, I am. Well, he's not. He's not. He's not. Now, what people who follow my podcast, people who follow my substack, would understand that there is a difference between Harry the individual and Prince Harry, who used to be a member of the Royal family. But most people don't understand that. And incredibly, it was left to Donald Trump to say, harry does not speak for the United Kingdom. And of course, being Trump, he then threw in a little, how's his wife, by the way? Send her my regards. I mean, it was quite funny, but I found it kind of sad that it was left to Donald Trump to say that. That actually, you know, it should have just been. There should have been a briefing from the King's office saying, you know, this is nonsense.
- [44:16]
Joanna Coles
Well, it's interesting that Harry seems to be looking for something to do and is clearly trying to work his way back. And to your point about not supposedly touching the royals, I think quite a lot of people noticed Donald Trump leaning over and patting King Charles on the knee, and King Charles looking like he understood that this was a flagrant disavowal of protocol by the President, but he was laughing away as it happened. And it actually looks like a sort of very genuine moment. Tom, it's great to have you explain this to us. We would love to have you come back. I'm very disappointed. You don't have your Bugle with you. One of the highlights of your podcast is when you pick up your very brassy Bugle and hit some notes out. And I strongly recommend your podcast to anybody who's interested in the Royal family and indeed who are Republicans because it's such an interesting take and I know that you are dancing on the fringes of the royal circle, shall we say. So your information is good and you hear all sorts of things. Thank you so much for giving us your time. So despite Tom's analysis of what the kids are up to, Prince William trying to make sure that people know he's about to be in charge, and Prince Harry wanting to come back back home, I still feel optimistic about the King's visit. I think he did a stellar job with both of his speeches. The tone was perfect, the humor, the deep research into history, his family, and of course the references to Shakespeare, which I always like. And those of you who watch this podcast know I'm always alluding to Shakespeare whenever I can because as a British person, you grow up on it and you realize that almost every everything is either in the Bible or in Shakespeare. Anyway, if you have been, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to follow Tom Sykes on his Royalist podcast. It's really good. And his substack, I'll be back tomorrow with Michael Wolf. We'll be going inside Trump's head once again to find out how he's been processing the King's visit. He said yesterday he was a little jealous of King Charles because his speech took off. Congress had gone so well. And a big thank you to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Pizarro and Neil Rosenhaus.
- [46:42]
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- [47:09]
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