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- [00:00]
Michael Wolff
The White House really feels it is at war with the MAGA voices. Partly it has to do with the Iranian war. The MAGA position is we are against forever wars. We're against foreign wars. America first. This is what you promised, wasn't it? Which is what he had promised. The pushback within the White House. I mean, it's really has to do fundamentally with the war. The MAGA objection to the. To the war. That's what everybody is grousing about within the White House. Where are these people? Why are these people? Why are these people leaving us? Why are they deserting us? What is this pushback?
- [00:47]
Joanna Coles
Michael.
- [00:49]
Michael Wolff
Juliana.
- [00:50]
Joanna Coles
And when I say Michael, I mean Michael Wolf, the author of four Trump books and two books on Rupert Murdoch. Michael, where are we going?
- [00:58]
Michael Wolff
And when I say Joanna, I mean Joanna Coles, who needs no introduction.
- [01:06]
Joanna Coles
Well, I might need introduction today. Cause it's raining outside, my hair's a disaster. But I am the Chief content officer of the Daily Beast, and I think this is our 84th episode of Inside Trump's Head.
- [01:18]
Michael Wolff
Who invented this title? Chief Content Officer?
- [01:21]
Joanna Coles
I don't know.
- [01:22]
Michael Wolff
It's like a ridiculous title. Whatever happened to editor in chief, publisher? Is this a. This is a digital world thing? Chief Content officer? Anyway, you don't have to answer this. These are just rhetorical questions.
- [01:36]
Joanna Coles
Yeah, but I think it's not a rhetorical question. Where are we going and what are we doing there? Just briefly, for anybody new joining the
- [01:44]
Michael Wolff
podcast, we believe that this is a government of one, and that one is Donald Trump and nothing else matters, which is really extraordinary. Extraordinary in the history of United States, extraordinary in the history of government, really. That everything is determined by the caprice and the whims and the sudden inspirations and often the passing inspirations of one man. Everything depends upon what has come into the head of Donald Trump at any particular moment in time or war. Invasion of American cities. We can go down the list. But if you think that this is the product of a carefully thought out policy, you would be wrong. What it is, and everyone around Trump knows this is the result of what's in Trump's head at that. At that moment in time. Let's invade Minneapolis. What a good idea. Let's invade Iran. What a good idea. Let's invade Cuba next week. Let's. It's all. It all depends upon what passes through that head.
- [03:12]
Joanna Coles
Oy, oi, oi. With its strange straw colored hair. The yellow is back, by the way. And also in our last podcast, you made a point which struck home with a lot of viewers and listeners that he's really ad libbing the war. And we can see him doing it in plain sight. And actually there was an amazing moment where he said, and I'm trying to remember what the Beast's headline for it was, because it was very funny, which is when he was choosing the title of the operation in Iran, Operation Epic Fury. He said that he was given a choice of titles. And normally these operations have some kind of, you know, slightly more rousing theme to them, like, you know, Operation Freedom or Operation Democracy or whatever. And of course, this is Operation Epic Fury. And he said as they were briefing him and giving him the list of the names, he was falling asleep. This is something we know he does in cabinet meetings. He does it every time he has a briefing. He's constantly falling asleep, which is something we've discussed and you've pointed out the White House gets very anxious when they see him falling asleep. And everyone's like, what should we do? And there's a wonderful picture that we had in the Daily Beast of him sitting between Hegseth and Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, just eyes closed, eyes completely closed, clearly having dozed off. But he was falling asleep at all the names they presented him with until he fell upon. Or someone said to him, what about, what about Operation Epic Fury? And his eyes flashed open and he was like, that's the one. That's the one.
- [04:58]
Michael Wolff
No. And he's good at this. And when I, on one occasion, when I sat with him, he said, you know why your book Fire and Fury, you know why that was a hit? He said, because I gave you that title. And my second book was called Siege. She said, that's a bad title. That's why that book didn't do as well as the one where I wrote the title for it. Now, let's understand the context is that he obviously said this ridiculous statement about Fire and Fury as it related to North Korea. And I chose that title as a way to make fun of him, but that, that now became a title that he had given me and all of my success was due to him.
- [05:48]
Joanna Coles
Well, didn't he want to stop you and shout, hey, I'm the guy that made you rich?
- [05:52]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, he's explained that to other people. He said as he went by, I made that guy rich.
- [05:58]
Joanna Coles
Yes, right. Okay.
- [06:00]
Michael Wolff
And that's what he clearly, clearly he absolutely blew. So my book, Fire and Fury, which is in every way not complimentary to Donald Trump, he, he now claims this as his success.
- [06:13]
Joanna Coles
And for those who haven't Read the book. What also made it successful, not least the title that the President gave you, Fire and Fury. But was the fact that you sat in the White House for the first year of Donald Trump's first presidency for seven months, just jotting down what you were seeing and what you were hearing and they didn't know what you were doing there. And when you said, oh, I'm writing a book, they were like a book, a book. Cause they had no sort of concept of something that might come out in a year's time.
- [06:44]
Michael Wolff
And that was sort of at his invitation. But the invitation went kind of like this of waving. Waving. Oh yeah, okay, right.
- [06:52]
Joanna Coles
Well, I remember.
- [06:53]
Michael Wolff
And that, which is how thought out things are in, in that first administration and they're not, they have, they have not appreciably changed. And, and it is, you know, I mean, I think we can't stress enough that the war in Iran. There may never have been a war which we have entered, anyone has entered into with so little planning, so little strategy, so goals that are so unclear.
- [07:22]
Joanna Coles
Goals that are so unclear. And even when he's talking about, I mean, he addressed the G7 this morning, we're recording this on a Thursday morning. People left, world leaders from France, from Italy, from German Germany, from the UK left. And they all had a different interpretation of what he was saying because he doesn't really know what he's saying.
- [07:44]
Michael Wolff
No, I mean he doesn't know what are we doing in Iran other than, I mean, we can go down the list of regime change, unconditional surrender, getting rid of the nuclear stockpile.
- [08:00]
Joanna Coles
Well, today his reasoning was that because America is the biggest producer of oil, this is actually good because oil prices are going up. Ergo it's good for America that oil prices are going up because.
- [08:13]
Michael Wolff
Oh, that's a good.
- [08:16]
Joanna Coles
So there was sort of exposed facto explanation, but I just wanted to call out we get. And I never feel we give listeners and viewers enough credit for the incredibly interesting, articulate, engaged comments we get. I wanted to read one out today from someone called Dawn Nieg. I think it's Neuberg Steins and. But it says according to NLP Neuro Linguistic Programming there are two types of people. One is through time as they can plan events and follow through. The other is an in time person who deals with the present. Michael said Donald Trump ad libbed the war and that's pretty much the same. Donald Trump doesn't plan ahead and he thinks that whatever he comes up with on the spot is brilliant. Rationally, he's delirious I thought that was a very good description.
- [09:13]
Michael Wolff
Well, that great Trump expert Jeffrey Epstein used to say that Trump had no executive function. So that means the cognitive ability to sequence things, to organize things, to have an appreciation of cause and effect, he was without. And I think that that is absolutely true. And a kind of astounding historical moment to realize that the most powerful man in the world, who runs the most powerful country in the world, who effectively is at the center of much that is happening in the world, has no relevant abilities to that position.
- [10:09]
Joanna Coles
Right. And curious. Yesterday, Pentagon Pete threw a wild vanity tantrum. That was our headline for it. And I love this story that Pete Hegseth, who's appointed himself, well, he was appointed as Secretary of Defense by Donald Trump, but has renamed the job the Secretary of War, yesterday banned certain photographers from the Pentagon because he didn't like the images of himself that were coming out. So for those of you who might not have seen the images or who would like to see the images again, I want to assure you that we'll be running the images through this podcast so you get all of them. And should you need to take a copy of the story and share it with your friends, go onto the Daily Beast website and we have every single photograph of Pete Hegseth that he deemed heinous.
- [11:02]
Michael Wolff
That's what he's talking. I have a little, a little background on this. Also. I'd like to like to note that the word heinous has, has having a big spike. Everything is, everything is, is heinous.
- [11:17]
Joanna Coles
Well, it does feel a bit heinous
- [11:18]
Michael Wolff
at the moment, but the background to the photos is enormous amount of consternation within the Trump orbit because of the photos that, that were taken of everyone in the White House after when Susie Wiles gave a set of interviews which then became a long and extended article in Vanity Fair. And the photographer that Vanity Fair sent in made everybody look like a grotesque, including close ups in that way that you could see where all of the women had their injections. None of that was, was covered. All of that was exposed. And in fact, that particular photographer, his specialty. Whereas most photographers strive to make people look good, that photographer, his goal in metier is to make people look bad. And within the White House they were furious about this and furious with the communications people who hadn't realized that that's what this photographer has done. So everybody is now on guard against photographers who might make people in the Trump orbit look bad.
- [12:41]
Joanna Coles
Oh, that's so interesting. That is interesting. And I mean, it's Always been a trend, though, from Vanity Fair or New York magazine, certainly when the two of us were working there, that it's not that the photographers are trying to make people look bad, it's that they're trying to cut through to get to the essence of the person. And there's always a lot of preening and poppinjay type behavior from people who want to look their best, which is.
- [13:09]
Michael Wolff
Well, I mean, I've worked obviously at Vanity Fair too, for a long time, and much time at Vanity Fair was spent making people look much better than they actually looked. And that was always sort of part of the deal. We'll cooperate with you if you make us look really fantastic.
- [13:34]
Joanna Coles
Right? No, I've certainly said that to photographers myself. Your job is to make me look thinner, blonder, younger. That's always my.
- [13:44]
Michael Wolff
So that was a kind of a bait and switch. I have some sympathy for the White House in this regard.
- [13:52]
Joanna Coles
I have no sympathy for the fact they didn't do the homework. Very straightforward. You look at the portfolio of the photographer.
- [13:58]
Michael Wolff
Well, they never do their homework. We can say that. So we're. We're, in fact, we're now in the middle of a war in which no one has done their homework.
- [14:06]
Joanna Coles
No one has done their homework. So what are you hearing from the people that you talk to?
- [14:11]
Michael Wolff
Well,
- [14:13]
Joanna Coles
this war.
- [14:14]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, totally. I think it's a really interesting moment and a kind of pivotal or I think we say, tipping point moment that the White House really feels it is at war with. With the. The MAGA voices. And that may extend to their war with their whole base. Partly it has to do with the Iranian war because obviously the MAGA position is. Is. Is like, what the fuck, you know, this is. This is the. The MAGA position is, is. We are against forever wars. We're against foreign wars. America first. This is what you promised, wasn't it? Which is what he had promised. You know, the pushback within the White House. I mean, it really has to do fundamentally with the war. The MAGA objection to the war. That's what everybody is grousing about within the White House. Where are these people? Why are these people. Why are these people leaving us? Why are they deserting us? What is this pushback?
- [15:23]
Joanna Coles
What was interesting this week was the Donald Trump addressing the Republicans who are pulled together for their sort of annual off site at Dural. The Trump Dural Hotel in Florida, or Doral. How do you pronounce it? Doral.
- [15:39]
Michael Wolff
Doral.
- [15:40]
Joanna Coles
Doral. Okay. But they're all there and they're being Told let's drop the mass deportation message. That isn't playing well for us. They've got rid of Christy Noem, but they're now seeing the numbers in the polls are shockingly low, especially for Donald Trump. So they're being advised, stop talking about mass deportations, only talk about it in terms of criminals, that we want criminals out. And then Donald Trump is saying he won't pass any other legislation until he gets the SAVE act through, which is that people have to turn up with a state registered ID to vote. Again, honing in on the mechanics around the elections. And he's saying that he wants to reduce the ability of people to mail in ballots. It should only be for the military and occasionally people who are too ill to get to the polls. Right.
- [16:35]
Michael Wolff
So we have two impediments as we go into this midterm year. And actually we are now in the midterm year. We are three months in. And the first is the immigration backlash, which is not only profound across almost all demographic groups of people saying, hey, wait a minute. Even if we are people who support all of the laws related to immigrants and want them enforced, nobody wants. It, wants to see it done in the way we have been doing it. Not to mention people getting, getting shot. Not to mention masked men who, with little training and experience enforcing, enforcing the laws that, that, that actually, they seem entirely unclear on the laws that they are enforcing or allowing.
- [17:43]
Joanna Coles
Well, we've all seen the social media videos of them, masked men dragging people out of cars, carrying them away. It's disgraceful. We saw Alex Pretty shot in, you know, on a Saturday morning. We saw Nicole Rene Goode shot, you know, three times, four times in the face, in the head when she was doing nothing wrong.
- [18:02]
Michael Wolff
Okay, so this is impacting, as I say, all demographic groups, but most critically, it is, of course, impacting. Impacting Hispanic groups.
- [18:13]
Joanna Coles
Right. Can I read the quote from Mike Johnson who was down there? He said, and I can't do his voice, annoyingly, we've got a little hiccup with some of the Hispanic and Latino voters for certain, because some of the immigration enforcement was viewed to be overzealous. That's what he said on stage. And then he said, and, you know, everybody can describe it differently, but here's the good news. We're in a course correction mode right now. He said, we're going to have a new secretary of Homeland Security. So they're driving the bus over Kristi Noman, reversing back over her.
- [18:51]
Michael Wolff
Now, this is, this is going to be. There's an interesting sidelight here, too, because it's the Stephen Miller sidelight. So the person who remains most adamant about. About immigration enforcement. Immigration enforcement almost at any level, any and all, is Stephen Miller, who is certainly among the most prominent and most powerful voices within the White House. So we have the beginnings of a major fight within the West Wing itself.
- [19:28]
Joanna Coles
Well, and it was Stephen Miller's idea to have quotas and to say you need to get, you need to deport X number of people, which is why, of course, they've been rounding people up, many of whom have been American citizens.
- [19:41]
Michael Wolff
No, and this is from the Stephen Miller point. This is a point of moral righteousness. There can be no compromise because it is a moral issue. And the moral issue is, of course, a completely racist issue. But in his mind, as in the mind of, dare I say, 1930s Germany, there is. There is no compromise to be made here.
- [20:15]
Joanna Coles
Okay, so one of the people that perhaps both represents MAGA and also is oddly independent is the representative from Kentucky, Thomas Massie, who we will remember joined with Ro Khanna to demand the release of the Epstein files, then persuaded three of the Republican women to come over, Nancy Mace, Lauren Boebert, and Marjorie Taylor Greene, who was then a representative, to force the release of the Epstein files. He has fallen foul, obviously, with Trump over that. And Trump is doing his best to primary him or support the guy who's primary him.
- [20:59]
Michael Wolff
Yes. So this is a focal point of Trump's, of Trump's anger and revenge. He will. He has set out to defeat Massie and probably will.
- [21:12]
Joanna Coles
I don't know. Massey's pretty popular there.
- [21:14]
Michael Wolff
So I think this is going to be an interesting measure between Trump support and MAGA support, which we'll see soon. I think the primary is in May, and very well. I mean, I would say Massey is in. Perhaps he'll prevail, but he's in the fight of his life. If you're a Republican and Donald Trump becomes your enemy, I can't imagine that's a promising moment for your career.
- [21:47]
Joanna Coles
But Thomas Massie is older and you're always making the point that people hate Donald Trump. So while they're afraid of him, and Thomas Massie is clearly up for the fight, I'm sure he's back channeling with Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell. They must spend a lot of time talking together.
- [22:05]
Michael Wolff
Well, there's, there's another person, Trump. Trump does. Does not like, to say the least.
- [22:11]
Joanna Coles
Mitch McConnell hates Trump. Right. Yeah.
- [22:14]
Michael Wolff
But this is between the two. But here's, here's a group of people who really don't hate Trump, who really love Trump. And it's Republican primary voters who are the people who love Trump most. Republican primary voters.
- [22:28]
Joanna Coles
Well, except that they feel he's compromised by the Epstein files and they're now confused about him being so slow to release the Epstein files. This will be a driving.
- [22:40]
Michael Wolff
This will be a measure of that. I'm not sure that that is actually true. I mean, these.
- [22:46]
Joanna Coles
Well, but they also don't want war. And Thomas Massie, you know, has been very clear that he doesn't agree with the war in Iran.
- [22:53]
Michael Wolff
Well, I know this is the, you know, these are the MAGA voice. Whether the, whether the Trump MAGA base, these people who vote in primaries, we don't know. We don't know for a fact that this is true. And we'll see. I think it's going to be, I mean, it's a very, very interesting measure here, right?
- [23:19]
Joanna Coles
I mean, Trump said of Thomas Massey, Thomas Massie, we got to get rid of this guy. Loser. He's loser. This guy is bad. This guy is bad. So we know he doesn't like him. And Ed Galrane, who is Trump's candidate in perhaps, I mean, pulling himself up to his full height, said that Massey stands with the ladies of the View, which I thought was a kind of. If that's the best you got, dude, I'm not feeling confident for your choices.
- [23:55]
Michael Wolff
What's interesting is, I disagree. I think for Trump, primary voters are. For primary voters in the Republican Party. That could be an evocative image. This episode is brought to you by Cologuard. If you recorded songs off the radio for a mixtape, it might be time to screen for colon cancer. The Cologuard test is non invasive, requires no special prep or time off, and you start screening right from your home. Just three simple steps. Set up, sample and ship. If you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your doctor about the Cologuard test, available by prescription only. Learn more or request a prescription@cologuard.com podcast.
- [24:39]
Joanna Coles
I think that. Well, so we know that Massey spent 3.1 million in the campaign and John Paulson and Paul Singer finance guys have raised 3 million against him. So tight race, but I suspect the local people of Kentucky like Thomas Massie and like that he's independent. Anyway, we can watch it closely.
- [25:03]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, let's. I mean, I mean, I think it's an important race and we'll begin to say lots about what's going to happen in November.
- [25:15]
Joanna Coles
Okay, so Trump is Clearly terrified of what's going to happen in November. Right.
- [25:23]
Michael Wolff
You know, I'm trying to think terrified. Trump's terror is not like other people's terror. And that's partly this looking forward. He doesn't really see things. He's not really looking forward and saying, oh, my God, this could happen again. He lives in the moment. So. But I think that it is obviously of concern. He knows that something has to happen or he's going to lose. But I think at that same time, he certainly feels that something, many things could happen, including his ability to interfere in this election, which is why he is, he is so insistent on passing this Save America act, which would mean that everyone has to show a state approved id, which is not so easy. And it certainly means that many voters will be turned away and that those are likely non Trump voters who will be turned away.
- [26:37]
Joanna Coles
Well, John Thune, who's the Senate Majority Leader, is basically saying they won't get the votes. This is not going to get passed. And he's absorbing a lot of flack for saying that there's no point in holding a vote because he's not going to get the vote.
- [26:53]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, well, let's turn that around and say, I mean, because they're not going to do this, they're not going to pass this, the Save America Act. But Trump doesn't appear to understand that. And again, that's a product of living in the moment and it's a product of, of I'll get it because I want it. So at what point does he understand that that's not going to happen? Now, layer that on top of the fact that he does so often get what he wants. And so it's a reality distortion from Trump's point of view. I will get what I want. And the proof of the pudding is that I so often get what I want. So therefore, in this instance, why wouldn't I get what I want? And if I get what I want, then I can perhaps prevail in November. So therefore all go to the point that he's not terrified because he's Donald Trump who believes that he can, he can make this happen, he can fix this, he can get what he wants.
- [28:02]
Joanna Coles
Well, Melania has resurfaced, which I thought would be a good time to catch up with your lawsuit. Melania, the movie is on Amazon prime, and of course she's going to be showing up at the White House today because it's Women's History, Women's History Month. I have history. I have no history. I tell you no, you know, history. Melania. Me, no history. Anyway, she's turning up to support Women's History Month at the White House. So rare sighting of her. Pray, what is happening with your lawsuit with her?
- [28:34]
Michael Wolff
Well, any day now we will get a decision from a federal judge on their motion to either dismiss the lawsuit and to dismiss it because they seem to be saying now that their threat, their $1 billion threat against me, was, I suppose, less than serious. Therefore, we would be suing them in error because it's obviously based on anti slap laws in New York that prohibit using the law to intimidate someone's perfectly legal speech. But they're saying, they appear to be saying, well, since they weren't really serious, it wasn't really a threat.
- [29:31]
Joanna Coles
So it was a rhetorical threat.
- [29:34]
Michael Wolff
I suppose that's what they're saying now. I mean, we've turned around and said, no, actually, you've done exactly what the law required you to do in order to file this kind of suit. You've taken the necessary steps. You've, you, the clock began to run as soon as you were, as soon as you were doing this. And if we did not withdraw the statements you've demanded that we withdraw, then we were liable to this one billion dollar threat. So at any rate, they've asked to dismiss, we've countered on that. And then, and if there is not a dismissal, then they've asked for this to be moved to Florida, which is more advantageous to them and where they maintain Melania Trump is a citizen, a citizen of the state of Florida. We have countered by saying, actually every circumstance would indicate that she is not, that she is a citizen of New York State. And we have then further asked for the court to authorize discovery in which we then might get access to all of the documentary record, including her prenuptial agreement, which would show that, in fact, she is firmly wedded, if not to Donald Trump, to the state of New York. So we're waiting for a decision on that any day now.
- [31:09]
Joanna Coles
Wow, that would be completely riveting to read Melania Trump's prenup with Donald Trump. What I wouldn't do to read that out loud in Melania's voice. How interesting. And so is the assumption, because we've talked about this before, that one of the complexities of the case is actually the difficulty of serving the First Lady.
- [31:33]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. And that is also, they've said this should be dismissed because the first lady has not been served, even though you can't actually serve the first lady because they would Shoot you if you got that name that close to her. And in fact, we have already gone into court and asked the court to offer us an alternative method of service, giving the circumstance, but they seem to have ignored that and are just taking the literal view that because she actually has not been served, because she can't be served, therefore she cannot be sued.
- [32:12]
Joanna Coles
So who's taking that point of view? Melania's lawyers are taking that point of view. Right. Because I was going to say there is a mechanism where if you can't find someone to serve them or they are avoiding being served, you can serve the court instead. Right.
- [32:26]
Michael Wolff
Well, you have to. The court has to agree that they've,
- [32:29]
Joanna Coles
that you've made all reasonable efforts to serve them.
- [32:33]
Michael Wolff
Yes. And we have asked the court to say, hey, tell us what to do here.
- [32:37]
Joanna Coles
By the time you're back in New York next Tuesday, hopefully we'll be in the studio together. You might actually have a decision. Is that possible or you're expecting in the next couple of weeks?
- [32:46]
Michael Wolff
Well, you have no way of knowing. And in fact, the somewhat, the a variable here is that this is a Trump appointed judge in the Southern District, which I have no reason to believe that this judge is biased. But given that you're a Trump appointed judge, you're probably not in a hurry to make this decision.
- [33:12]
Joanna Coles
Right? Right. But those judges, sometimes they can be more independent than anyone expects. Right.
- [33:20]
Michael Wolff
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- [33:50]
Joanna Coles
So I thought Trump's language, just going back to, to the war, you know, obviously he's still trying to figure out reasons for why we went in, but his language of saying, you know, it was a little excursion, I mean, what is he talking about? I mean, he's obviously got the wrong word, incursion. It's not like we're having a little excursion. That's something you do on a school trip, when you go to a museum.
- [34:16]
Michael Wolff
You're going to excursion. Yes, on any trip. A little excursion to.
- [34:21]
Joanna Coles
You're having an excursion in London.
- [34:23]
Michael Wolff
Yes.
- [34:25]
Joanna Coles
He is sending American planes for an incursion. Not a little.
- [34:32]
Michael Wolff
Well, you know, I mean, it's also, remember Donald Trump? A good part of what comes out of Donald Trump's mouth is literally meaningless. The words are wrong. Not only, though, the words are wrong. He has actually no particular thought he is trying to express except to fill the silence and answer a question that he doesn't have the answer to, because there is no question. What are you doing in Iran? I don't know.
- [35:08]
Joanna Coles
Oy yai yai. So when's it all going to end, Michael? Well, we've already got. I mean, it could be within the first hour.
- [35:17]
Michael Wolff
That's another point. It could end immediately. He could, as capriciously as he went to war, he could end the war. And I think that there's a lot of people now trying to say what happens if that? Because that is probably the case. So then what happens if that's the case? And the likelihood is that that will happen. He will announce victory. He will bring all of the American forces home, and Iran will be left with an enormous amount of damage. But beyond that, nothing. Clearly, having changed of the leadership of the mullahs still functionally in place, the, the nuclear capabilities still ready to be reassembled over some period of time, protesters still up against a regime that is perfectly willing to shoot them. Yes, basically a degraded ability to be aggressive in the short term. But these guys have shown interest, remarkable patience in rebuilding. It gets torn down, they rebuild it. So is it possible that we could have this same war again before Donald Trump exits the presidency? Sure.
- [36:52]
Joanna Coles
Well, confusingly, Motabar Khomeini, the son of the ayatollah who was killed on the first day of the bombing strikes, as were his wife, his mother, and his son, has issued a statement, although it appears that he's in a coma. So I'm not sure how that works. But he's issued a statement saying that they will do everything they can to fight back. And he's called on Iranians to, to unify in the, in the face of the threat from the West.
- [37:32]
Michael Wolff
Now, now we know this. Just, just let me, because I have not seen this, that this is, this report comes from. Where, where do we.
- [37:41]
Joanna Coles
Well, I read that in the New York Post, actually, which just, that's our,
- [37:44]
Michael Wolff
that's our, that's our source. Well, New York Post, that's concerning.
- [37:49]
Joanna Coles
It's concerning.
- [37:52]
Michael Wolff
I mean, it may well be true, but it is not necessarily true because of the New York. That the New York Post says it is. Just saying. Just let me note.
- [38:05]
Joanna Coles
So Michael, can we just raise this wag the dog theme again? Because Zatteo has just come out with a poll saying that 52% of Americans believe that the reason Trump went into Iran and that he's been so unable to explain it is because of the Epstein files and he's trying to ignore the, that fact fallout and distract from the fallout of the 3 million Epstein files we've had released so far.
- [38:32]
Michael Wolff
Well, I mean, I think that that is a fair supposition. The polling question I'd ask is that of all Americans or likely voters? I mean, it's a sort of pivotal distinction as we look to the midterms. But other than that in general. Yeah, I mean, I think that's, that's, that is a fair view of Donald Trump's behavior and of what's going on in, in a war which no one has any idea why we're fighting. So if you have no idea why we're fighting and what the goal is, but you know that the guy who is, who has ordered this war to be fought desperately wants you not to notice that he's all over the Epstein files, then seems like a fair conclusion.
- [39:31]
Joanna Coles
So it's a great question. And in fact, I'm just checking now it was likely voters.
- [39:36]
Michael Wolff
Well then all of these things, I mean, and I think we should continue to follow this and follow the details of all of the polling because this is going what is going to bring us to the midterm?
- [39:52]
Joanna Coles
This episode is brought to you by Nespresso introducing Vertuo up, the latest in a long line of innovation from Nespresso. It's innovation you can touch, sense and taste in every single cup. With a three second start, easy open lever and dedicated brew over ice button, it's even easier to enjoy your coffee your way. Sip for yourself. Shop Vertuo up exclusive exclusively@nespreso.com well, and there was, there was a. Well, it popped up as a, as a news alert followed quickly by another news alert saying that James Clyburn, who you will remember is from South Carolina and who really made Joe Biden in 2020, he was going to make an announcement. So he's 85, James Clyburn. I assumed the announcement was that he was stepping down. In fact, the announcement was to say he's running again for another term in the House of Representatives. So he will be 87, 88 by the time he finishes his next term.
- [41:01]
Michael Wolff
I am not the first congressman to have come close to peaking over 90.
- [41:09]
Joanna Coles
Just remarkable. The Democrats in particular will not let go Though I think the oldest person is Senator Chuck Grassley, who's 90, who's
- [41:21]
Michael Wolff
a Republican, of course, who's a Republican.
- [41:23]
Joanna Coles
Yep. But it's just astonishing. It's astonishing how they will not hand over power.
- [41:34]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, I guess it's. I guess once you've got it.
- [41:38]
Joanna Coles
All right, so a final concluding limerick. And this is from edits. Our narcissist in chief. Now he's bombing Iran. Why, you may ask? Well, just because he can. Oh, how much can we bear? It's even worse than health care. There's not even the concept of a plan. I thought that was good.
- [41:59]
Michael Wolff
Great. You got another?
- [42:02]
Joanna Coles
I have. We've got one from Garfried, actually. Trump threatened Iran with fire and fury reprise, then claimed total victory himself. Unsurprised, no strategy found, just rhetoric profound and Hegseth explaining a war undisguised.
- [42:19]
Michael Wolff
Great. Love it.
- [42:20]
Joanna Coles
Okay, keep them coming, people. Michael will be back in the studio, I hope next Tuesday. It's much harder talking to you when you're in London. I don't know why. Is there any fallout yet from the Peter Mandelson and Epstein relationship which saw Mandelson fired as ambassador?
- [42:39]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, well, I think Starmer is. This isn't good for Keir Starmer, but the whole of. I mean, I actually spent a little time trying to get my head around UK politics, which seem most now marked by the fact that there are going to be so many more, more competitive parties. So it's now a five party state or a six part. So we're in one of those moments in which nobody knows what's going to happen because the variables have so dramatically increased. And I think that that's probably somewhat true in the US Also that the component parts between far left, far right, middle, middle, middle, far right, middle, far left are now competing in a much clearer way than has been true in the past. So is the, is the MAGA far right now competing with the MAGA middle? I think that's probably true.
- [44:00]
Joanna Coles
But in the end, they've only got two options, Democrat or Republican in the States, whereas the Green Party and Reform Party have grown massively in the uk. The thing I found most infuriating looking through the Epstein files, through the lens of, of Mandelson being fired, which they released in the UK yesterday, released on Wednesday, was that Dame Karen Pierce, who was the very popular and capable ambassador in Washington, warned Keir Starmer and said the Epstein files is a big political hot potato in the US it's going to become more of a story. She knew that Peter Mandelson's friendship with Jeffrey Epstein was much bigger and much more recent than he'd said. And Keir Starmer, for whatever reason, whatever pressure he was under, chose to ignore it. And there's another question I'm hearing coming out of the uk, which is that Peter Mandelson has hired the law firm Miscondure, which is one of the biggest, most prestigious law firms in the uk, frequently gives advice to the Royal Family, and people are wondering, how is he going to pay Miskon Dureya's bill? Who's going to lend him the money to do that? And as we saw, he demanded half a million pounds for leaving the job, leaving the ambassadorship, from which he was fired, and eventually the government settled on £75,000, which is still a lot.
- [45:34]
Michael Wolff
Wasn't he. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but didn't he have a consulting business which he sold for a considerable amount of money?
- [45:44]
Joanna Coles
I'm not sure, but Peter Mandelson has a history of leaning on people to support him financially. Let me.
- [45:53]
Michael Wolff
Well, I think that describes pretty much all politicians.
- [45:57]
Joanna Coles
Fair. Totally fair. Michael, hurry back, Hurry back. Though I will say the hotel room behind you looks luxurious.
- [46:05]
Michael Wolff
Not bad.
- [46:06]
Joanna Coles
It's a fancy piece of furniture to your right, over your right shoulder, sort of very mid cinch.
- [46:16]
Michael Wolff
I think they would like to think of it as art deco.
- [46:19]
Joanna Coles
Art deco, okay. Well, from here it looks mid century, but maybe when you're in the room, as they say. All right, well, hopefully you'll be back in the studio. Safe trip back. At least you're not flying back through Dubai.
- [46:31]
Michael Wolff
I'm not.
- [46:32]
Joanna Coles
All right, we've got a special edition of Inside Trump's Head on Saturday, which I'm very excited about because it really focuses on Susie Wiles. We're doing a deep dive into Susie Wiles, which is, as we know, Trump's chief of staff and she wields her power in a different way than previous chiefs of staff. So very intriguing. And don't forget to look for our substacks at Beast Pub Howell for Michaels and Beast Pub screamforjoannas. Leave us a comment. I love hearing from people. I wrote one last week about mistakes we've made and people have sent all sorts of mistakes they've made and some of the notes are detailed and some of them are very moving. If you have been. Thank you for watching. Don't forget to leave us a comment. And don't forget, as our first lady would say, beast. Be beast. Please be beast. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now. There are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support. Thanks to our production team. Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro, Neil Rosenhaus.