Why Trump Is Always Caught in Crisis: Rothkopf

Summary

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The Daily Beast Podcast – April 28, 2026

Episode: Why Trump Is Always Caught in Crisis: Rothkopf

Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: David Rothkopf

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Brief Overview

In this episode, Joanna Coles and David Rothkopf dissect yet another Trump-era weekend dominated by crisis—the attempted attack at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner. The conversation unpacks Trump’s penchant for chaos, his exploitation of crisis for personal gain, the culture of violence surrounding his administration, media complicity, the role of conspiracy thinking, and the repercussions for American democracy and global relations. They explore how these repeated crises reflect deeper truths about Trump’s leadership and his corrosive influence on institutions, culminating in a wide-ranging discussion about upcoming political battles, the future of the Republican Party, and the implications for democracy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The White House Correspondents’ Dinner Incident

• Journalistic Overreaction & Media Performance

  • The hosts criticize how journalists at the dinner dramatized the event for effect.
  • Rothkopf calls the event a "matryoshka doll" of crises—each layer revealing something worse.
  • Trump turns the incident into a press opportunity, playing the martyr and deflecting from substantive issues.
  • Quote:
    • “On top of that, Trump immediately tried to turn this into a photo op... he turns into the most insufferable version of Trump, which is St. Donald the Maga.” (David, 02:14)

• Trump as Self-Declared Martyr

  • Coles mocks Trump’s attempts to claim the mantle of “Unifier” or “Martyr,” noting the performative aspect of his crisis management.
  • Trump’s desire to move future press events to a proposed White House ballroom is lampooned as self-serving and corrupt.
  • Quote:
    • “Are we f***ing kidding? Seriously? This is what this is about is building this gilded ballroom, which is an engine for corruption.” (David, 06:44)

2. Trump’s Crisis Management Style

• Crisis as Distraction

  • Trump uses and even seems to almost manufacture crises to steer attention from substantive policy failures (Iran, Epstein, negotiations breakdown).
  • Recurrent theme: every scandal or violent episode becomes another performance.
  • Quote:
    • “He takes maximum advantage of these things and cynically squeezes every juice out of the crisis orange that he possibly can.” (David, 17:32)

• Weaponization of Victimhood and Division

  • Coles and Rothkopf emphasize Trump’s double standard in condemning violence, supporting it when it advances his interests.
  • Trump positions himself as a victim for sympathy while fostering a culture where violence for his benefit is excused or elevated.

3. The "Lone Wolf" Narrative & Political Violence

• Who is the Real Lone Wolf?

  • Trump often labels others (attackers, adversaries) as “lone wolf whack jobs,” but Rothkopf argues Trump himself is the “lone wolf” at the center of crisis.
  • The danger increases when such a figure holds presidential power.
  • Notable Quote:
    • “A lone wolf whackjob that controls the world's most powerful military is much more dangerous.” (David, 03:56)
    • “Donald Trump is the real Lone wolf whack job.” (David, 51:05)

• Cynicism from the Staff and Loyalty Questioned

  • Discussion about staffers’ motivations: “This is not the guy I want to die for.”
  • The intra-administration paranoia and lack of mutual loyalty.

• Media Enablers and Cultivation of the Conspiracy Ecosystem

  • Coverage fuels speculation and conspiracy.
  • “There’s no evidence to suggest it was a setup... but he responds as you would if it were.”

4. Institutional Decay & Erosion of Norms

• Manipulation of Press & State Functions

  • Trump’s targeting of freedom of the press (ejecting reporters, restricting access, populating the briefing room with allies).
  • The ballroom—a symbol of his need for legacy, ego, and transactional governance.

• Secret Service & Security Issues

  • Lax security at the Hilton event; direct reporting by Daily Beast journalists.
  • Questions of accountability (“Calls for Susie Wiles’ head”—seen as scapegoating, misogyny).

• Leaks as Last Governmental Guardrail

  • Rothkopf underscores the power of leaks in Washington, especially as Trump has dismantled other oversight mechanisms.
  • Quote:
    • “There’s one guardrail that is impenetrable, and that is people in the government leaking to the press.” (David, 43:03)

5. Foreign Policy, UK Visit & Global Implications

• King Charles’ Visit Amid Tensions
  • Split opinion: Coles sees diplomatic value in maintaining continuity; Rothkopf views the monarchy as a powerless prop for Trump’s photo-ops.
  • The visit is entangled with the Epstein scandal (Prince Andrew, Mandelson connections) and the UK’s own political drama.
  • Quote:
    • “The king is a sock puppet...being used as a symbol to undermine the actual government of the UK here.” (David, 33:24)

6. Polls, Upcoming Elections, Republican & Democratic Futures

• Trump’s Political Fragility

  • Polling at historic lows; possibility of a Democratic wave.
  • Discussion of whether Democrats will pursue impeachment if they regain control.
  • Recognition that both parties lack clear, post-Trump leadership.

• Veepstakes and MAGA Leadership Void

  • Speculation on J.D. Vance, Marco Rubio, and others as potential successors.
  • Mockery of the revolving door and lack of loyalty (referencing Pence, Laura Loomer’s investigative zeal).
  • Quote:
    • “J.D. Vance makes Mike Pence look like a combination of Daniel Webster and George Washington... loser of the first order.” (David, 49:18)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Matryoshka Doll Crisis Metaphor

  • "It's kind of matryashka doll, and you open it and every time you open it, something worse is inside of it.” (David, 01:42)

• Showman-in-Chief:

  • "These events bring out the showman in Donald Trump in a crisis... brings out a sort of weird kind of performance leadership in him, which I think people may find compelling.” (Joanna, 09:45)

• On Truth and Trust:

  • “The reason that people believe in conspiracy theories around Donald Trump is that Donald Trump is committing conspiracies actively.” (David, 20:19)
  • “He lies about everything...he's a pathological liar... We've seen the Epstein files. We know that people under oath have asserted Trump did terrible things... at this point, we don't trust him.” (David, 21:16–22:20)

• Epstein Shadow:

  • “...King Charles will not get within 10ft of a reporter who does not want to ask him a question about Epstein... if Donald Trump thinks it's going to change the subject, it's not.” (David, 35:27)

• Summing Up Trump's Era:

  • “The Trump era, MAGA era is coming to a close. It is a dead certainty. And I don't know, Trump's not ready for it. MAGA's not ready for it. The Republicans don't have anybody to pick up and lead next.” (David, 47:59)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Crisis Overload/White House Correspondents' Dinner Fracas:

  • 00:00–07:15

• Trump as Crisis Magnet; Lone Wolf & Violence Themes:

  • 03:09–14:36

• The Ballroom Gambit & Corruption:

  • 05:00–07:15

• Media Complicity and Performative Coverage:

  • 01:37–05:00, 11:12–12:30

• Rumors, Conspiracies, and Public Trust:

  • 17:12–22:23

• King Charles’ Visit and the Epstein/Mandelson Tangle:

  • 24:42–36:43

• Daily Beast Journalists’ Firsthand Reporting:

  • 26:17–28:30

• Accountability, Secret Service, and Internal Chaos:

  • 38:23–45:23

• Elections, Party Futures, and Leadership Vacuums:

  • 45:36–49:58

• Final Takeaways on Trump’s Place in History:

  • 50:33–51:05

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Tone & Language

Conversational, incisive, and irreverent—often blending wit and dark humor with sharp political analysis. At times, the dialogue takes on the tone of seasoned Washington observers dishing at a dinner party, mixing first-hand reporting with gossipy asides and shoulder-shrugging exasperation at the relentless absurdity of the Trump era. The episode oscillates between condemnation, satire, and weary amusement, reflecting both the hosts’ deep expertise and the surreal ongoing reality of American politics.

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Useful for Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode offers a rich, critical deconstruction of both the latest Trump-adjacent scandal and the larger sociopolitical culture it sustains. Listeners will gain insight into the meta-cycles of distraction, performance, and dysfunction in today’s politics, as well as the personal investment and skepticism of those who cover it most closely. The ongoing crises are framed as not aberrations, but the logical outcome of Trump’s leadership style—and, the hosts argue, it’s running out of steam.

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Transcript

[A]

This weekend story is going to get a lot of play because there were so many journalists there, but it was actually meaningless. It won't change the subject. Next week, when you and I get together for this conversation again, what's going to happen? We'll be talking about Iran, we'll be talking about Epstein, we'll be talking about Trump's corruption. We'll be talking about his mismanagement of the government. We'll be talking about the next unexpected crisis that is caused by the fact that he is a lone wolf whack job. And, you know, the, the momentary grace that he gets out of Butler 2.0. The mini version is just not going to last.

[B]

David Rothkop, Joanna Coles. Well, well, well, well.

[A]

You've left the country and look what happened.

[B]

I know I was supposed to be at the dinner. An urgent matters called me back to the UK where I'm dealing with a family health issue. But I have been like you have many times to that dinner. It used to be fun and glamorous and sexy, and it was kind of the Oscars in D.C. the mix of celebrities and politicians and everything felt very glittering and sparkling and enormous fun. And I think we were all reflecting this year before the dinner on how it now seemed hard edged and much more aggressive. And then, of course, this happens, which is, you know, clearly a terrible, terrible thing.

[A]

Well, it's a terrible thing and it contains other terrible things within it. It's kind of matryashka doll, and you open it and every time you open it, something worse is inside of it. And on the surface, you have the attack that was targeting Trump administration officials or Trump. We're not 100% sure who was being targeted. We have the hubbub, and political violence is never a good thing. And I think we ought to talk a little bit why there has been so much and why Trump is such a magnet for political violence. But we also had this. You talked about it, and here in D.C. they call it nerd prom, right? Where all the nerds get together and they put on their tuxedos and they congratulate themselves on controlling the world. But you had this kind of sanctimony. Every reporter in the room got on their cell phone and was like, okay, here we are in Fallujah and bullets are flying everywhere. And I am sacrificing myself for, for the American people. And of course, that's not what happened. And then on top of that, Trump immediately tried to turn this into a photo op. And he goes to the White House and he has a press conference in his ill fitting tuxedo and he turns into the most insufferable version of Trump, which is St. Donald the Maga.

[B]

Martyr, I think you mean, as his wife would call him, David. Unifier. He is unifier. He was calling for unification. You're quite right, of course. And I want to direct people to your excellent column on Substack about how actually the lone wolf here is not the guy. Cole Allen, Trump's own expression for him was the lone wolf. And of course, the lone wolf at the center of this actually is Donald Trump, who's led America into war without consulting any allies other than Israel, and now finds himself stuck with a problem which is called Hall News.

[A]

Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. In fact, another term that Trump used for Cole Allen is whack job. He said all these people are whack jobs. And you know, there is no question but that a lone wolf whack job with a gun is dangerous. But let's be clear, a lone wolf whackjob that controls the world's most powerful military is much more dangerous. Fortunately, no one was killed or seriously injured at this event at the White House correspondent's dinner. But 5,000 people are dead in the Middle East. Thousands more injured, over a million dislocated. Billions spent. Billions of people suffering around the world from rising prices, inability to get gas soon, inability to get food because of something just as insane. More insane. Cole Allen at least had a manifesto and a reason for doing what he was doing. Donald Trump didn't have a reason.

[B]

He.

[A]

He didn't have an excuse. What he was doing was not just as illegal, it was more illegal. And I have to say, when I was looking at all these reporters and they're talking about, oh, my God, and this is disruption of Washington, and, oh, here I am, and I almost spilled salad dressing on my tuxedo. And I was thinking, yeah, but it's true, right? But what about the mothers and fathers of the hundreds of school kids who were murdered in the first day of this insane war? The reason Trump made it into a press conference, and I think it's really important to remember this, is that on the morning of this event, he had his negotiators turn around. He gave up again on the negotiations. Iran is going terribly. There's a good Daily Beast story right now on how Trump is having a meeting of his national security team to try and figure out how to get out of this huge mess. And so he was like, look over here. Distraction, distraction. And trying to actually make the most of this. And of course, then I don't know if you followed all this insanity, then he decided that it was actually about his ballroom and that the message of having this attacker was that he needs to have his big gilded fortress that he can hide in, and all presidential events can be moved to that. And he's even had the White House lawyers go to the court and file a motion yesterday saying blocking the building of the ballroom is putting the President's life at risk, as the events of this weekend demonstrate. And it's like, are we fucking kidding? Seriously? This is what this is about is building this gilded ballroom, which is an engine for corruption. And God knows why. God knows why. I don't know why. Do you know why Trump is so obsessed with. Can't just be ego.

[B]

Well, I'm sure he's obsessed. I'm sure his obsessions change, because I think the one thing we know about Donald Trump is that there's no consistency to really anything he thinks.

[A]

So.

[B]

I'm sure he wanted it at one point to make his physical mark on the White House so that no one can ever forget that he was there. Similarly with the arch that he's planning to build, so it will disrupt the view of the Arlington Cemetery, which we know he thinks is full of suckers and losers because that's how he referred to those who've died in battle. I mean, how soon is it after events like this to. To pick up one's suitcase of cynicism again? I mean, one wants to take a breath and see if there's any good that can come out of this. I mean, of course, it's the White House correspondence dinner, so it wouldn't be held in the White House anyway. It's not a White House event. It's the correspondence event. It's supposed to celebrate the First Amendment freedom of expression, which we know that this particular President has been resistant to. They've turfed reporters out of the Pentagon, although that decision was reversed by a court. They've introduced all sorts, sorts of friends of the President into the briefing room and kicked out people from the briefing room. You will remember there was the whole debate about whether or not AP could be in the briefing room, who'd been there since time immemorial. So I think we have to be fair that Donald Trump is no friend of the free press, and there's no reason why they would want to hold the event at a White House ballroom in the future should this thing ever get built. And obviously, he's trying to take full advantage of it by railroading it through the courts at the moment. I mean, the weird thing is that these events bring out the showman in Donald Trump in a crisis. One remembers from Butler, Pennsylvania, when he got up there with the ear sort of bleeding, and he was fight, fight, fight. And. And apparently at this one, he was saying, wait a minute, I want to know what's going on. Don't leave me out. You know, you think any other president or like J.D. vance would rush off the stage immediately, but he's trying to figure out the angle, I think, which is just a f. And the press conference at the White House, you know, an hour, less than an hour after someone has tried to take his life, I'm sure triggering other similar events sort of brings out a sort of weird kind of performance leadership in him, which I think people may find compelling. Spring is a natural reset point. And if you've been putting off cleaning up the messier parts of your business, now's the time. Streamlining communications will help you win. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q U O. The smarter way to run your business Communications. What usually breaks in a growing business isn't the big strategy stuff. It's the small things, missed calls, scattered text conversations that never get followed up. Quo fixes that by letting your whole team share one business phone number so every call and message is captured, visible, and actually handled. No dropped threads, no confusion about who said what. And it's built for speed. Calls, texts, voicemails, and contacts all live in one clean app. And Quo's AI helps by summarizing conversations and flagging next steps so nothing slips through the cracks. Make this the season where no opportunity and no customer slips away. Try quo for free. Plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.com beast that's Q-U-O.com beast quo. No missed calls, no missed customers.

[A]

Well, first of all, I wouldn't call this leadership of any sort. And in terms of your suitcase full of cynicism, it should have come out right at the beginning because they immediately started to capitalize on this thing. And him having this event at the White House was, as you say, performative and cynical. And of course, he had the little group of trained reporters, mostly trained reporters, ask him questions like, well, how can you be so inspiring in times of crisis like this? And do you compare yourself to Abraham Lincoln? Are you one of our greatest presidents?

[B]

Please tell me someone didn't say that. Please tell me someone didn't say no.

[A]

It wasn't quite like that. But he.

[B]

I know he referred to himself as President Lincoln.

[A]

Well, he did, but somebody was like, you know, how is it you deal with this? And he then shrugged and sort of did his best John Wayne imitation. And then he was like, well, you know, I've read about this stuff. I'm an expert. I invented assassination. And the only people who their assassination attempts over are the most consequential presidents, which, by the way, undoubtedly got a great reaction from the family of James Garfield and William McKinley and Gerald Ford, who are completely inconsequential presidents.

[B]

But I think he was thinking more in line of. Of jfk, obviously, and Abraham Lincoln. That's who he wants to compare to.

[A]

Obviously, he was thinking in line of that. Of course, Abraham Lincoln was one of our greatest presidents. JFK was nowhere near one of our greatest presidents. I could make a case that he was a pretty inconsequential president. But let's not get into that, okay? The reality is that almost immediately, he tried to use it to turn the subject away from Iran, to turn the subject away from Epstein, to turn the subject into what a saint he is. He had one those moments like he had after Butler, Pennsylvania, where he said, we must all come together as a nation.

[B]

The most divisive president that we can think of. The most divisive president.

[A]

Beyond divisive. Right? Beyond divisive. This guy. On Sunday morning shows, there were all these Republicans yesterday were like, we have to get rid of violence in America. And Dana Bash on CNN turned to Jamie Raskin and said, don't you feel bad for the tone? And it was like, what? The Democrats are responsible for this tone? The author of the current violent mood in the United States, the author of the division, the person who owns it is Donald Trump. Remember what happened on Saturday evening at the Washington Hilton Hotel was one guy somehow getting close to the president and then being captured before anything happened to the president. And the president and all these Republicans decried it. And on January 6, 2021, Donald Trump incited the riot that took place on Capitol Hill, where people died, people were injured, the government of the United States, policemen died.

[B]

Right. I mean, the irony of thanking all the security forces when you're like, you literally pardoned everybody who was at January 6, some of whom were involved in direct violence against the police and the

[A]

protectors, put some of them in the administration. You know, I mean, he has elevated violence into being a plus if it's for him, and he condemns violence when it seems to be against him. And, you know, there are a lot. There's a lot of stuff.

[B]

I mean, I wondered, you know, as a human reaction, you look at some of the people that were rushed from the room, who work for him, who know that he's not a good guy, who understand that this is their closest shot to power, who understand that in a normal Republican administration, they would not have a role. And I wonder if they're thinking, ugh, I'm not sure they know he's not a good guy. We've talked before about the fact that they all hate each other, they're all suspicious of each other, they're all paranoid. And I wondered if any of them had a moment when they're like, you know what? This is not the guy I want to die for. This is not the guy I want to take a bullet for.

[A]

I don't know, maybe they did. I'm not 100% sure that people were really that fearful for their lives. It was kind of interesting that they took J.T. vance off the stage before they took the stage.

[B]

It was amazing, wasn't it? I mean, they literally lifted him by his shoulders, and I was like, wait, the President's still there. Maybe he has a better team. Maybe he has guards who are more on it. I mean, Trump then disseminated that by saying, oh, you know, I told them, wait, wait, wait, I want to see. But actually, the interview with Oz the Mentalist, who was crouched under the dais with Trump, did not suggest that at all. It said that they both been pushed.

[A]

By the way, Oz the Mentalist, he needs to have his mentalist card taken away.

[B]

I know. That was very unfortunate that he didn't see that coming. Very unfortunate.

[A]

Yeah. It's like, whoops, whoops. I really see everything. No, you didn't see this coming. But. But, you know, that would have been

[B]

amazing if that's what it was. On the piece of paper that he done failed to. The first.

[A]

No, he. Yes, yes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it says there will be an active shooting. Yeah, no, that would be. Well, you know, Caroline Levitt. Maybe Caroline Levitt should take up a career as a mentalist, because, you know, earlier in the evening, when she was talking about Trump's plans to. To offer some really nasty comments about the press, which he kind of indicated he was disappointed.

[B]

He does anyway. Yeah, he does that anyway.

[A]

But Caroline Levitt said shots will be fired.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With regard to Trump's remarks, which of course is. Maybe she saw something. But I have to say, one of the weird things about this, and I'd be Interested in your reaction, and I know the people who are listening or watching are interested in your reaction is how many comments do you think are in the various streams here at the Daily Beast of people saying, was this a hoax? Was this a setup?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, and I, you know, I mean, I don't. There's no evidence to suggest it was a setup. But to go back to your point about how he responds to Butler and how he responds to this, he responds to these things exactly as you would if it were a setup. Just as he responded to the Russia stuff in 2016, he takes maximum advantage of these things and cynically squeezes every juice out of the crisis orange that he possibly can. And that's why then people. And nobody trusts him. And so everybody's like, oh, no, this is the ho. Now, of course, with the Butler thing, there's this weird thing where he's like, I'm shot, but I didn't go to a doctor. There's no doctor's note. I'm wearing this thing in my ear. There's no blood. All these people at the convention are wearing this thing on their ear. What is that all about? It all seemed weird. And Trump's. It's all about the ballroom. It seems weird. And that's why you've got some perfectly good, smart, intelligent readers and listeners here at the Beast who are like, is something fishy going on here?

[B]

Oh, the way.

[A]

I'm not saying. Go on.

[B]

Well, no, I was gonna say that Donald Trump is such an odd character that almost nothing is beyond the pale in terms of the possibilities around him. I mean, he's almost like a fictional character. I mean, I happen to believe that, that, you know, Thomas Matthew Crookes, who shot him at Butler, Pennsylvania was a, you know, was a. What was a lone wolf whack job who had a list of people that he wanted to shoot to try and get attention to himself. And he was shot dead. So I'm not sure what he would have gotten out of it other than a very short lived legacy. But it's impossible not to entertain the conspiracies, even briefly, because of the nature of Donald Trump's presidency. That sounds like your dog in the background is barking. To agree he thinks it's a conspiracy or perhaps it's a she dog.

[A]

It's a he. He's a conspiracy theorist grizzly. I don't listen to him, but he is a constant presence. No, I think there's a lot of people out there who believe that weird stuff happens around Trump. And, you know, why they believe it because weird stuff happens around Trump. Donald Trump is, we can see it, the most corrupt president in U.S. history. That's an objective fact. He's getting payoffs. His kids are getting payoffs. They're making billions of dollars. The reason that people believe in conspiracy theories around Donald Trump is that Donald Trump is committing conspiracies actively. There is all this corruption. We see it in front of him and we can't unsee it. And he lies about everything. During his first term, the Washington Post had a guy counting his lies, and they came out to like, 36,000 lies. He's a pathological liar. And so if you have a guy and he's doing background deals and he's lying about everything, and he's been found guilty in courts of fraud, of course you believe everything that the guy is doing is a conspiracy. And there's an interesting dimension of all this. So I don't know if you saw this, but last night, Nora O' Donnell on 60 Minutes did an interview with Trump. And during the interview, she read elements of the manifesto, of Cole's manifesto. And in the manifesto, it alleged that one of the things that got to him was the existence of a rapist, a pedophile, and a traitor. And Trump got outraged. He said, you're a disgrace. And then in a beautiful grace note, I thought Norah o' Donnell said, oh, do you think he meant you? But here's the point. The point is Donald Trump is trying to wave this stuff away. And we've all seen it. It's just like the corruption. It's just like the lies. This is not the beginning of this story. This is year 11 of this story. We know that a judge, Lewis Kaplan in the E. Jean Carroll case, when he was summing up the case, said that the jury verdict in the case for kind of sexual abuse found that Trump raped Carol in the common modern understanding of the word, not in the narrow definition of rape as defined by New York State law. But we can't unhear that when a judge says that's the conclusion. We've seen the Epstein files. We know that people under oath have asserted Trump did terrible things. We know that there's 20 plus women who have accused him of sexual abuse. I personally found the comment about him being a traitor kind of resonant. Because if I turn around here, oh, yeah, here's a nice volume called Traitor, which is a book about people who betrayed the United States, written by me. So the point is, Trump tries to waves this stuff away, but we've seen it. And so at this point, we don't trust him. And that's why when he gets into this whole cynical mode, it's so damn nauseating. He speaks out against violence. He's the author of violence. He speaks out against divisiveness in politics. Nobody has more been more divisive in politics. He speaks out against journalists who speak the truth at him. But we know the truth. And that's why this event, that the event itself I don't think is that important in the long run. In the history books. It won't be seen as an important event, but it sure does work as a prism for so many of the subtext of this moment, of the extraordinary guy who the whack job, lone wolf president who is himself the biggest criminal in any room he's in. And we know it and we can't unsee it. And that's, you know, that I think is the takeaway from this weekend. And now, of course, here you are in England. I don't know why you arrive in England and the King leaves, but now you've got the. Is there a connection there?

[B]

So the King is coming to the States for four days on a four day trip. A lot of controversy around the trip. A lot of people in England, where I am at the moment, saying he absolutely shouldn't go. This is terrible. Trump has attacked the British Prime Minister. He's ridiculed the British Navy as being essentially a sort of toys. He's told Keir Starmer, the Labour Prime Minister, he's no Winston Churchill, which is true. And a lot of British people are saying he's no Winston Churchill. So a lot of people are saying the King shouldn't go. He's being used as a stooge.

[A]

Well, he is being used as a stooge. And you know, Stephen Chung, the White House communications director, would call him a cuck.

[B]

Well, wait a minute. He calls you a no name nothing. Boo. And he calls me a lying goose.

[A]

I know, but I think I got elevated to cook. You're a great executive editor. Hugh Docherty told me that Stephen Cheung had elevated me from a no name to a cuck, which I felt I'm making some progress here. We should make, by the way, we should come back to the King. But we should make note of the fact that Hugh Docherty had the room next to Cole in the Washington Hilton and actually wrote something about this for the Daily Beast. I mean, you had somebody right in the middle of it. And he wrote about the fact that the security was super lax. But nobody was closer to this story than the Daily Beast.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, an extraordinary moment as Hugh went upstairs. So he and David Gardner, Farah Thomasin, Nico Hines and Sarah Yule Weiss. Nico is our global editor. David, Sarah and Farah are based in D.C. for us. And Hugh runs the show. Thank goodness. But they were all in the room, in the dining room when it happened, in the ballroom. And then when Hugh tried to get to go back up to his room on the 10th floor of the Washington Hilton, he was held back by FBI officers. Not actually Kash Patel. We can come on to Kash Patel in a minute. He was looking like he was talking to someone on his phone, but nobody thinks anybody.

[A]

Kash Patel, the luckiest man in America who was, you know, on Saturday morning, was about to be fired. And by Saturday night they couldn't fire him. Cause he was in the middle of this. But anyway, go on.

[B]

Well, they'll fire him when they need another distraction, won't they? But Hugh then discovered he couldn't get into his room. Cause his room was literally next to the. He had the neighboring room of the would be assassin. And in fact, Hugh was making suggestions to the FBI that he thought might be helpful to them. Like, you know, would you like to know what time the cleaner came? I didn't see any of my neighbors in the room, but. And they were like, oh yeah, we should get the law. We should get the cleaning schedule. And then it turned out that three hours after the guy had tried to, you know, shoot a security officer, they suddenly had the bomb squad up there. And you're like, well, probably should have been up there a little earlier. I mean, I guess they get blase at this event because there's always a president going. Well, for the most part, unless it's Trump won. And it's normally a very good natured event.

[A]

Well, it is. But I do think the funny story that Hugh told me was that he went to the FBI guy and said, well, I was in the room next door. Do you want to talk to me? Do you have any questions that you want to ask me? I think I was like, oh, yeah, that might be a good idea. And Hugh gave him his card.

[B]

Yeah, well, he wrote a very good piece about it. We should recommend that people read his piece because it was an excuse.

[A]

Definitely. And it came out right after the event. It was extremely good. And the fact that you had all these reporters there and there was all this good coverage in the Daily Beast in real time, factual, it was great. But to get back to the king coming because we have to turn the page at some point. You know, I think all this criticism of the king coming is exactly right, because I do think the, you know, maga would call him a cuck if it weren't for the fact that Donald Trump loves the king and he loves the idea of kings and he likes people who have crowns and who live in big palaces and who can't actually say anything critical to him because the king can't actually do that. And you know, the king, the reason I say that, that he would be described as a cuck, is he's being used. He's being used as a prop by Trump. He's being used to make Trump look statesmanlike in the middle of a failed war and a failing economy, an American division and falling American standing in the world and insulting England and insulting our allies around the world. King Charles is going to come there and is going to go, oh, yes, friends, we're friends.

[B]

I love your accent of him. Do that one more time. Hello. Hello.

[A]

Yeah, this is like, I'm going to do King. We could do King Charles meeting Melania, because you could then be Melania. It's very nice to meet you, Melania. Good to see you again. Your face never moves. Why is that?

[B]

I wonder how she's feeling after Saturday. Cause we know how furious she was after Butler, Pennsylvania, and also how she wouldn't let Barron be a delegate in the rnc. Cause she was so concerned for Barron's safety. So I'm sure her having the proximity for Melania to Saturday's event means we'll see even less of her.

[A]

Yeah, but maybe her body double or whoever it is that gets sent to these events when she's.

[B]

Fake Melania. Fake Melania, but fake. I mean, I think that King Charles, assuming his health holds out, and as we know, he has cancer, which is treatable, but not apparently curable. Assuming I'm sure that King Charles thinks he will outlive Trump and that actually Trump is a blip in the relationship between Britain and America. It's very important for Britain to have good, sound relations with. With the US And Trump has gone after everybody in Europe. It's not Britain. He hasn't singled out Keir Starmer. He's gone after Emmanuel Macron. He's gone after Pedro Sanchez in Spain. He's gone after Giorgio Meloni. He thought he loved her in Italy. Now he's gone after her, similarly with the Chancellor in Germany. So this is Trump flailing with everybody. And actually from the British point of view. I think it's quite smart that the king comes, the king maintains relations. Soft power. It's above politics.

[A]

Look, I don't agree. First of all, the king is meaningless pawn in this whole thing.

[B]

Secondly, I actually don't think he is a morning. I don't think he is a meaningless pawn in all this. David Rothkop. Now, this may be because I'm sitting with my feet firmly on British soil today, and normally my feet are on New York soil. But I actually think that this, for Britain, this is sort of a continuity. And King Charles is extremely sophisticated in terms of his relation. No matter what Donald Trump says, King Charles will be able to rise above it, and he won't rise to the bait. I mean, he does that wonderful thing when he looks off in the middle distance and just kind of as he did when Trump made his sort of remarks at Windsor Castle. And I'm actually fascinated to know, how is the White House going to compete with what happened at Windsor Castle? Because you've been to state dinners at the White House. So have I. They take place in a tent. It's not. It's not gonna compete.

[A]

I don't know why. You know, this could be a sort of lovely English thing about you and that you think that the King still matters. Cause he doesn't. And, I mean, what does the king do? He goes to the opening of a frog crossing at a small road in Staffordshire, and he cuts a ribbon. Kings don't do anything anymore. So they exist purely for symbolism. And Trump is using the symbolism to suggest healthiness in a US UK relationship. That isn't healthy. To suggest normalcy in his behavior when it is abnormal, to seek a kind of dispensation for the way he has abused Starmer, the way he has abused the British Navy, the way he has battered the relationship by saying, see, everything's fine here with the King. But the king is a sock puppet. The king is a toy. He's something that, you know, he doesn't create policy, he doesn't influence policy. And he's being used, you know, when he's used as a symbol because people then turn out to parade because he's going by in a gilded coach. Great. That's good for tourism in England. But he's not actually being used as a symbol to help the UK here. He's being used as a symbol to undermine the actual government of the UK here. And that's not a good thing.

[B]

But I'm sure that the King will have spoken to the Prime Minister or certainly the diplomats that run the relationship in as much as anybody does with the UK and the US Especially after the battle with Peter Mandelson, the previous ambassador to D.C. from the UK who got fired. And now the Prime Minister is in the middle of a terrible quagmire over that. And it's unclear whether or not he survives it. But I think you are not giving the king quite enough credit, actually. I understand that he may lend some of his prestige brand to Donald Trump in this particular moment, but I think the king is looking to a longer relationship with America. And Donald Trump is a blip. And sometimes you have to suck it up.

[A]

Look, I hope you're right, and I think that that's a lovely sentiment, but. But I don't think that's how Donald Trump looks at it. I think Donald Trump looks at it by saying, see, here is a king who thinks I am a king, who is treating me like a king, who treated me like a king, who sees me as a statesman, who's not talking to me about all this stuff that I hate talking about. Now, I have to say, one of the things that the king is bringing over in his luggage, for which I'm sure there's all sorts of footmen carrying the luggage. He's never touched a piece of luggage. But one of the things that the king is bringing over in his luggage is his brother. And the Epstein scandal. And you talk about Mendelssohn and there will be. King Charles will not get within 10ft of a reporter who does not want to ask him a question about Epstein. And there will be a hundred stories about Epstein because of the Prince Andrew connection and because of the Mandelson connection that will follow this visit. And it will once again prove that no matter what Donald Trump does to try to change the subject, he can't. That Epstein's not going away.

[B]

Well. And King Charles can say, well, I'm afraid I can't say anything about it because it's under review by the police, which will show that that business, the Epstein files more seriously than the US

[A]

Maybe, but yes. And that his brother is no longer a prince. And everybody will think of the image of his brother in the backseat of the car that was snapped by that photographer where he looks like he has just seen something horrible and he's in complete mental disorder. And they'll know that the reason Peter Mandelson was recommended for this job originally started with Prince Andrew. They'll know that this is all tied into Epstein at some level. And so if Donald Trump thinks it's going to Change the subject. It's not just like if Donald Trump thinks holding a press conference in a tuxedo on a Saturday night is going to change the subject from Iran when this war is raging and when the world doesn't know whether the price of oil is going up or down, he's wrong. It's not going to make all of this go away. And this story, I think this weekend story is gonna get a lot of play because there were so many journalists there for whom they will, you know, for whom this was a big event and they can talk about it in a first person sense, but it was actually meaningless. It won't change the subject. And tomorrow or next week, when you and I get together for this conversation again, what's gonna happen? We'll be talking about Iran, we'll be talking about Epstein, we'll be talking about Trump's corruption, we'll be talking about his mismanagement of the government. We'll be talking about the next unexpected crisis that is caused by the fact that he is a lone wolf whack job and the momentary grace that he gets out of Butler 2.0. The mini version is just not gonna last.

[B]

So we had a piece on the beast that said people are calling for the head of Susie Wiles, that the Secret Service report to Susie Wiles and that this is ultimately her responsibility. What do we think of that? It seems very hard to fire someone when they're undergoing treatment for cancer.

[A]

It does indeed. I saw that piece. I was quite interested in that piece. I had not heard those kind of rumors. The rumors I hear are Kash Patel is next or Tulsi Gabbard has been given her marching orders, things you've also covered. But I think, you know, there are other people I would expect to leave soon and blaming Susie Wiles for, you know, you know, the mistakes made by the Secret Service, such as those in Butler when Trump wasn't the president and she wasn't responsible for the Secret Service, are also, you know, it's also kind of far fetched to me. I do think we should remember something corollary to this, though. The Secret Service budget has been cut by Elon Musk. The number of Secret Service agents has been reduced not just by Elon Musk, because a bunch of them were forced out who did not sort of see the World on January 6th the same way that Trump did. The people who Trump has elevated within the Secret Service are people who, and some of them he's elevated out of the Secret Service and into his inner circle are People who actually have participated in the COVID up of January 6th. Remember that there were all these Secret Service text messages that took place on January 6th, and they all disappeared. So Trump's Secret Service has been under a cloud since day one. His relationships with certain people of in it have been under a cloud. He has undercut the Secret Service with budgeting and with other kinds of elon things. And so it's really hard to say that they would blame Susie Weil. With one exception, which I think you mentioned to me in some text exchange we had, which is she's a woman, and he seems to like firing women.

[B]

Well, the first three people to be fired from his cabinet were women. So what happens to Kash Patel here, do we think? I mean, he's now launched his own $250 million lawsuit against the Atlantic, who ran a piece last week saying that he allegedly was drunk on duty. And apparently since he's filed his suit, more people have come forward from the FBI to say that they will corroborate the piece in the Atlantic saying that there are deep concerns about his behavior on the job.

[A]

Kash Patel is a dead man walking. He's out of the job. Whether he gets fired this week or next week or in a month, it's unclear. Trump does not like these kind of stories. And Trump knows full well that the Atlantic, which is well funded, has batteries of lawyers, would not under any circumstances have run this story if they couldn't back it up. And, you know, Kash Patel does not want to get into a court battle discovery testimony under oath about all the instances in his life in which people have questioned his judgment. And so it's just, you know, he has an ugly blip. You know, the first person to speak following the shooting on Saturday night or the events on Saturday night was Todd Blanch, the Attorney General. Cash, you know, was given a bit of a mini sound bite in there, but he was kind of on and off the stage pretty quickly. And so I would expect he will go soon. I will expect that, you know, some, some other Trump loyalist will be given that kind of job. We should remember that his deputy quit months ago, that putting Cash Patel in charge of. Right. Putting Cash Patel in charge of the FBI has been a fiasco. And as we've talked about, the people I know in the FBI are demoralized. They're angry. They think he's a dangerous man. And the longer Kash Patel is in this job, the more leaks there will be. Because, you know, and this is something we've talked about in the past, a lot of the guardrails in Washington have failed. The congressional oversight, the Supreme Court. Trump's gotten rid of people in the government who could be a problem. He's gotten rid of inspectors general. But there's one guardrail that is impenetrable, and that is people in the government leaking to the press. And we have seen it again and again and again. We had people in the military saying just a week ago to the Wall Street Journal that Trump was not allowed in the room, the command center, during the rescue of this Air Force officer who was down behind enemy lines in Iran. Most people think, well, that's a horrible story that doesn't reflect well on Trump. But what they don't think is, where did it come from? And this is the power of Washington. Every single person in Washington knows a journalist. Every single person in Washington knows that they can make a call. And so every single person in Washington, weirdly, the high and the low, and this is where some of the stories about the deep state come out. They all have power, they all have cell phones, they all have recordings. They all can undermine their boss. And I've seen it. When I was in the government, I saw it. I remember I had a colleague who made a trip and he made people on the trip stay up late at night working, and he was really angering all of them. And the next thing you know, there was a story in the Washington Post about what kind of cars he was having drive him around in Singapore. And it was like, wait, what's that? But it was some fifth level person at an embassy who knew that they could call the Washington Post and leak this story and make this guy's life a living hell. And so that's what's in Keshe Patel's future. Trump knows it, Susie Wiles knows it. And that's why Keshe Patel is in a great position to be the first guy who gets fired this time around.

[B]

Well, interesting analysis. So this is a huge distraction from what the real issues are the war in Iran, the economy. Epstein, as you said earlier, Ice, Mark,

[A]

Wayne, Mullen, don't forget RFK Jr. And our war on science. There are a lot of very, very serious issues going on here, but for maga, for Republicans, the most serious issue is that Trump is in the worst place he's been in the polls this term. He's below in many rankings where he was last term. He's at some historic lows in terms of his rankings. And what every poll suggests is that he will lose the House and that he may lose the Senate. And frankly, we're just almost six months away from the election. And all other stories in Washington get pushed into the background when you are that close to what is very likely to be a wave election and a historic shift in who's in power in Washington. And as we've talked about it, the Democrats, they're not taking anything for granted, nor should they, but they're already planning what kind of investigations will we run into Trump and should we impeach Trump or should we not impeach Trump and all that stuff? Because they know that starts, it's just months away before that could happen. And of course before that, we could have battles over who can vote and who isn't voting and rigging the elections and so forth. But that story is occupying a huge percentage of the bandwidth of everybody in and around Trump right now.

[B]

Oh, David Rothkoff, I was hoping that we would. Well, I guess that is a hopeful note, actually, isn't it? Democracy running its lumpy course and possibly a change of Congress and Senate. That is the way it's supposed to go. People vote someone in, they decide they don't like them, they vote someone else in.

[A]

As we've said before, and picking up on the metaphor with regard to Kash Patel, Donald Trump politically is a dead man walking. Frankly, I don't think he looks so good either. I think he looked exhausted and is barely able to keep himself together. And he fell down bringing himself off the stage during this whole thing. I think he's a mess physically. But quite apart from that, the Trump era, MAGA era is coming to a close. It is a dead certainty. And I don't know, Trump's not ready for it. Maga's not ready for it. The Republicans don't have anybody to pick up and lead next. The Democrats don't really have anybody, clearly, to pick up and lead next. And, and I think that's going to be the next big story is what do we do now that Trump is over?

[B]

What I would like is for Laura Loomer to swivel her not inconsiderable attentions onto why was JD Vance led off the stage before the President. That to me needs to be answered. And I would like Laura, if you're listening, or anybody out there listening who could convey this to Laura Loomer. Laura Loomer, when she's focused on something, can get, as they say, shit done. I would like to know why J.D. vance was led off the stage before Donald Trump. And I bet Donald Trump would like to know that too.

[A]

Yeah, well, Laura Loomer is kind of one of Trump's work wives, and she does stuff for him in this sphere, and maybe she will. But I think J.D. mance is also a story that is over. J.D. vance makes Mike Pence look like a combination of Daniel Webster and George Washington is a loser of the first order. And everybody knows it, which is why Trump and everybody else is like, hey, Marco doesn't look so bad to me. Although I love that. I saw a bunch of things about that over the weekend, too. Like, Marco's going to be the guy. And it's like, oh, yeah, the Secretary of State in charge of the Iran war, in charge of blowing up NATO, in charge of ending USAID and killing 14 million people. That guy is going to be the Republican candidate. Bring it on. Bring it on.

[B]

And you mentioned Mike Pence in your column, which I really urge everybody to read because it was so profound about who is the lone wolf web job here. But of course, Mike Pence, who was slavishly loyal for three years and 364 days until they got to the point where literally they were chanting, hang Mike Pence. Hang Mike Pence. That was what he got for being loyal to Trump. There is no such thing as returned loyalty there.

[A]

Right. And Trump, the man who condemns political violence, never really condemned that. He said, can you blame them?

[B]

Which is why Mother Pence didn't shake his hand at Jimmy Carter's funeral, refused to engage with them.

[A]

Well, it's exactly right. But I think if you boil it all down, this whole conversation today, the headline is, Donald Trump is the real Lone wolf whack job.

[B]

David Rothkop, as always, you've got such insight, and you bring a lot of experience to these conversations, having lived in Washington as long as you have. And I'm very sorry that we didn't get to have the lunch that we had planned on someday, because I had to rush away. But I'm looking forward to when I get back to the States.

[A]

Well, I hope all your business at home is taken care of as well as possible and that your family and the medical emergency is dealt with as well as possible, and that you come home soon, and then we get you down to Washington and we will treat you well. And, you know, one of these days, you're gonna have to start doing some of these, you know, Daily Beast live events so people can see you and talk to you and ask you questions. Cause I think they would love that.

[B]

Well, I would love to do that. Let me get through the initial phase here, but I think too that Trump is going to re or they're going to reschedule the White House Correspondent's Dinner somewhere, though goodness knows where they're going to hold.

[A]

I sure hope they don't. I doubt that's gonna happen. First of all, nobody.

[B]

Well, he's got a whole speech that he wants to use to target the press, which he was disappointed not to be able to use so well.

[A]

He's gonna have to find another place to do it. That event is not happening again then.

[B]

Well, at least perhaps not at the Washington Hilton. David, great to see you and more to come. We'll be back next Monday, God willing, and I will look forward to seeing what happens in the seven days between now and then. Who knows?

[A]

Safe travels and best wishes to your family.

[B]

Thank you. So the good news is we have so many beebeast tier members now there are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support. Thanks to our production team. Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro, Neil Rosenhaus, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[C]

I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[B]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail].