The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode: Why Trump Is Obsessed by Burning Evidence: Wolff
Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Michael Wolff
Date: November 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives into Donald Trump’s persistent obsession with the destruction of evidence, specifically his long-standing questioning of why Richard Nixon did not burn the Watergate tapes—a fixation Wolff contends is deeply relevant to Trump’s ongoing handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files. The conversation also explores the chaotic politics surrounding the possible release of Epstein-related materials, the remaking of federal institutions, the fracturing MAGA coalition, and the potential inflection points of Trump’s second term.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Trump’s Obsession with Evidence Destruction

• Trump and Nixon’s Tapes:
  Wolff highlights how Trump repeatedly talks about Nixon’s failure to destroy the Watergate tapes, suggesting Trump believes strongly in burning any evidence that could implicate him.

  • “One of Trump’s obsessions, a weird obsession … He comes back to it always. And it is, why didn’t Nixon burn the tapes? I would have burned those tapes. They were his tapes.” (03:33, 07:16)

• Application to Epstein Files:
  Trump’s fixation on “burning” is portrayed as directly influencing his actions regarding sensitive documents, notably the Epstein files.

  • “He’s been sitting on these tapes … for a year. In that time, he’s dismantled the Justice Department and remade it … whose clear, singular priority is his protection.” (08:14)

The Politics of Releasing the Epstein Files

• Flooding the Zone:
  Wolff discusses the current White House strategy to release overwhelming amounts of information to obscure consequential details—a tactic familiar from political crisis management.

  • “Within the White House … the precise strategy they have named is we are flooding the zone … pile on so much news, so much distraction that, that nobody knows what’s going on.” (03:16)

• Bipartisan Maneuvering and Chaos:
  The release of the Epstein files has become a locus for political infighting and grandstanding. Republicans and Democrats have released different troves of emails and documents, contributing to confusion and narrative manipulation.

  • “The Republicans on [the Oversight Committee] have released the overwhelming majority of these emails … rather than a handful.” (04:24)
  • “It is hard to know what is going on. It is hard to know what will happen. It’s hard to know what has happened.” (03:12)

• What's Actually in the Files?:
  The hosts reiterate the question that haunts the process: no one knows precisely what the “Epstein files” comprise, who controls them, or what will be meaningfully released.

  • “We don’t even know where they are or who is in possession.” (10:12, 10:23)

Cover-Up, Chain of Custody, and Trump’s Vulnerability

• Layers of Information Control:
  Wolff recounts the confusion over which agencies possess Epstein-related evidence. Various FBI offices, local law enforcement, and the Southern District of New York all have different caches, with procedural barriers to release (e.g., grand jury secrecy).

  • “There’s information held in the federal district in Florida … state prosecution … reams of financial information. … Another place, by the way, where Donald Trump is vulnerable.” (13:01)

• Possibility of Destroyed Evidence:
  The hosts speculate that any incriminating material—such as compromising images—may have already been destroyed, especially given Trump’s obsession with eliminating evidence.

  • “Will those pictures be there? Have they been—”
    “Well, if they're not there, have they been burned?” (15:03–15:06)

• Limits of Loyalty at DOJ:
  Wolff questions whether Trump’s personnel changes have fully insulated him from exposure, pointing to ongoing uncertainties and bureaucratic resistance.

  • “How truly successful has Trump been in remaking the Justice Department … to be entirely focused on protecting him?” (17:18)

The Victims and Public Sympathy

• Unique Nature of the Epstein Files:
  This scandal, unlike white-collar crimes, centers on real victims. Public and internal DOJ sympathy may affect what is released.

  • “So many people feel sympathetic to the victims … there's this industrial sized network of abuse.” (17:56)

• Manipulating Content:
  Wolff suggests the files, when released, may purposefully omit anything implicating Trump, instead emphasizing Epstein and others’ misdeeds.

  • “I don’t think at any point this has been about protecting Jeffrey Epstein … It has been about protecting Donald Trump.” (18:35)

Legislative Drama and Trump's Second Term

• Senate’s Next Move:
  Whether the Senate will demand release of all material is uncertain; Trump may count on Senate inaction or ensure that anything released is sanitized.

  • “This is Donald Trump. It may very well be, yes. I’m going to say release these files because I know the Senate is not going to pass this.” (11:05)

• MAGA Split/Endgame:
  Hosts describe dissent within Trump’s base, with figures like Marjorie Taylor Greene distancing themselves as the movement fragments and as Trump’s power wanes in his second term.

  • “There is a rank opportunist if there ever has been one. She knows which way the wind is blowing and … it's not blowing in his direction.” (41:39)
  • “There will be an inflection point. Now the question is, have we arrived at that inflection point?” (36:15)

Broader Corruption: DOJ, MBS, and Saudi Links

• Justice Department Incompetence:
  Discussion of the controversial appointment of Lindsey Halligan, an unqualified attorney, as a US Attorney, leading to botched, politically motivated prosecutions.

  • “It is crazy, unprecedented, unimaginable that Lindsey Halligan … has never practiced criminal law … has been made a U.S. attorney.” (26:29)

• Authoritarianism—But Done Badly:
  Wolff points out the irony that Trump’s authoritarian moves are undercut by incompetence.

  • “It’s an authoritarian and incompetent authoritarian, which might be … the saving grace.” (30:34)

• Trump, Kushner, and the Saudis:
  The episode explores links between Trump, Jared Kushner, and Saudi Crown Prince MBS—including business deals and Epstein's connections to MBS.

  • “Epstein was quite close to mbs … Epstein giving MBS financial advice … Epstein once described to me it was illegal to bring unaccompanied women into Saudi Arabia … [so] dress[ed] the women accompanying him as flight attendants.” (33:28)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Trump’s mental process:
  “What Donald Trump is not going to do is create a situation in which he himself could be implicated. … Let's go back to burn the tapes.” (19:33)

• On the ‘Flood the Zone’ strategy:
  “You pile on so much news, so much distraction, that, that nobody knows what's going on.” (03:16)

• On DOJ loyalty:
  “He has dismantled the Justice Department and remade it as a … group of people whose clear, singular priority is his protection.” (08:14)

• On Trump’s base turning:
  “Even the MAGA people … are saying, you’re protecting yourself.” (06:26)

• On MBS and Epstein:
  “Epstein was quite close to mbs. … Epstein once described to me it was illegal to bring unaccompanied women into Saudi Arabia. He would dress the women accompanying him as flight attendants.” (33:28)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump’s Nixon Tape Obsession: 03:33, 07:16
• Mechanics & Politics of File Release: 03:03 – 05:49
• Flood the Zone Strategy: 03:16 – 04:20
• Content of Epstein Files: 09:03 – 10:23
• Layers of Custody & Possibility for Cover-Up: 12:53 – 16:33
• Incompetence at DOJ (Lindsey Halligan story): 26:07 – 28:59
• Authoritarianism and Incompetence: 29:01 – 30:36
• MAGA Fracture and Inflection Point: 36:15 – 42:22
• Epstein, MBS, and Saudi Connections: 30:57 – 34:42

Notable Listener Questions & Cultural References

• Listener Questions for Melania Trump:

  • On Ivana’s burial and Ghislaine Maxwell subpoenas. (44:34–45:22)

• Sherlock Holmes Reference:

  • “Silver Blaze,” the “curious incident of the dog in the night-time”—the metaphor about the absence of expected evidence. (45:22–46:00)

• Fashion Sidebar:

  • Discussion of Melania Trump’s fashion as (literal) armor and social-media branding. (47:05–48:49)

Conclusion

This lively episode is both a deep dive into Trump’s psyche regarding evidence destruction and a clearinghouse of political intrigue surrounding the Epstein files. Wolff’s analysis centers on the intertwined dynamics of cover-up, bureaucratic chaos, and the looming vulnerabilities of Trump’s administration. As the episode closes, listeners are left with the sense that the “inflection point” for Trump’s political power is near, as the political and legal perils swirling around him increasingly threaten to burst into the open.

Memorable Quote to Sum Up:
“What does the Epstein thing represent? It represents Donald Trump’s vulnerability. … It is the Republicans who are using this to maybe the word would be to test his vulnerability.”
— Michael Wolff (36:56)