The Daily Beast Podcast: "Why Trump Legal Threat Against Me Is Empty: Wolff"
Host: Joanna Coles, The Daily Beast
Guest: Michael Wolff (author and journalist)
Date: February 4, 2026
Episode Overview
In this dynamic episode, Joanna Coles sits down with author Michael Wolff to discuss Donald Trump’s latest legal threats against Wolff following the release of the Epstein files—focusing on the tangled relationships between Trump, Jeffrey Epstein, the wider political class, and media narratives. The conversation reveals Wolff’s firsthand experiences, Trump’s legal tactics, high-profile associations connected to Epstein, and concerns about the integrity of the U.S. electoral process under Trump’s presidency. Set in a tone that is witty, unfiltered, and investigative, the dialogue moves swiftly between these interconnected controversies.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Trump’s Legal Threats Against Michael Wolff
- Wolff reveals Trump has threatened to sue him multiple times over the past decade without any lawsuit ever materializing.
- The futility of such threats: Trump avoids litigation because a lawsuit would expose him to depositions and uncomfortable questions about Epstein and other matters.
- Memorable Quote:
“So he has never sued me. Also, he can't sue me. What is he going to do? Is he going to sit for a deposition? Is he going to answer all of the questions that then I would have the right to ask him about his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?” — Michael Wolff [01:54]
- Wolff details that the real aim of Trump’s legal threats is procedural “punishment”—to tie his enemies up in nuisance lawsuits rather than win in court.
2. Inside Trump’s Head: Reaction to the Epstein Files
- Trump’s public responses, both in person and on Truth Social, attack Wolff and claim an unfounded conspiracy between Wolff and Epstein to harm Trump.
- Comical recreation of Trump’s rhetoric by Coles—described as “Alec Baldwin doing Donald Trump.”
- Trump accuses Wolff of being a “third-rate writer” and denies ever being to Epstein’s island.
- Memorable Quote:
“They should be, because it looks like this guy Wolf was a writer, was conspiring with Epstein to do harm to me...we’ll probably sue Wolf, that's not a friend.” — Trump (as read by Joanna Coles) [04:10]
- Wolff notes Trump personalizes conflicts, choosing antagonists as scapegoats rather than addressing issues directly.
3. Trump’s Relationship with Epstein and Melania
- Documents from recent federal releases suggest Epstein introduced Melania to Trump.
- Discussion about the ambiguity and potentially misleading or unverified details in the files.
- Emails between Melania and Ghislaine Maxwell hint at their social proximity.
- Notable Detail:
“In these documents, it is very, very precise...someone saying Jeffrey Epstein introduced Melania to Donald Trump.” — Michael Wolff [27:45]
4. The Challenge of Distinguishing Fact from Fiction in the Epstein Files
- Coles and Wolff debate the veracity of the newly released documents—what’s substantiated, what’s redacted, and what may be fabrication.
- The challenge for the media in reporting on the messiness of these revelations.
5. High-Profile Epstein Connections & Fallout
- Discussion of Bill Gates and Melinda Gates’s reported interactions with Epstein:
- Bill Gates tried to end contact; Melinda expressed relief and pity about the situation.
- Epstein allegedly tried to get favorable media coverage for Gates post-scandal.
- Anecdotes about Epstein’s tendency to cultivate connections with prominent figures, often leveraging social events and his reputation as a purveyor of insider information.
- Reflection on Peter Attia, the celebrity longevity doctor, being implicated as having prioritized seeing Epstein over his ill child, and the resulting fallout.
6. Trump’s Efforts to Manipulate US Elections
- Trump’s call to “federalize” U.S. elections—a move positioned as an attempt to centralize control for political gain.
- Patterns of interference reminiscent of his efforts in 2020 and 2024, including manipulation of redistricting and influencing Justice Department activities.
- Memorable Exchange:
“What does that mean?...It means he's taking over the elections...He wants them nationalized so he’s in charge.”
— Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles [31:13] - Trump’s obsession with past election grievances as an ongoing device for future electoral manipulation.
7. Social and Political Fallout
- References to the Kennedy Center being dismantled as an act of Trump’s revenge for elite rejection.
- A broader discussion about the normalization of chaos, with Trump as the orchestrator.
- Haiku from Listener:
“Impulse sparks ablaze
Don pirouettes through the smoke
Chaos is his art.” — Listener-submitted [55:33] - Wolff: “I don’t think it’s art. Chaos is his art...the idea I’m always pushing back against is that there is any plan here...the intention is to focus all attention on him like a child.” [55:41]
8. Vladimir Putin, Epstein, and “Spycraft”
- Epstein’s boasting of having met with Putin, describing secretive, “spyish” travels, and suggesting his value lay in being a “free agent” cut off from institutional control.
- Epstein’s role as an “information purveyor,” blending gossip and intelligence for leverage.
- Quote:
“That's the advantage of disgrace. Everybody knows that I am not in the pocket of a government...I am the only free agent at my level of finance.” — Michael Wolff recalling Epstein [43:23]
- No evidence Epstein was a Russian agent; more likely he pitched himself as an insider to many, regardless of allegiance.
9. Cultural Reflections & The Times We Live In
- Coles shares a striking monologue from a contemporary adaptation of "Oedipus," echoing political chaos and societal regression—a fitting metaphor for the current climate.
- Both express curiosity about how/if these tumultuous years will be reflected in future arts and cultural works.
Highlighted Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Trump lawsuits:
“Bring it on. I have nothing to hide. And he obviously has so much to hide.” — Michael Wolff [06:48] -
On Trump’s mindset:
“Instead of addressing the situation, he identifies someone in the situation to be his antagonist, his nemesis...That happens to be me.” — Michael Wolff [05:03] -
On Epstein–Putin meetings:
“I said to him, what did you talk about with Putin? And he was, he said, money, of course...So then Epstein would say that’s where he came in.” — Michael Wolff [42:08] -
On election interference:
“The only other way to approach this election is to steal it.” — Michael Wolff [37:12]
Notable Timestamps
- [01:54] — Wolff on the emptiness of Trump’s lawsuit threats
- [04:10] — Trump’s comments (read aloud) attacking Wolff and the media circus
- [06:48] — Wolff: “Bring it on. I have nothing to hide.”
- [10:18] — On "friendship" with Trump: transactional, confused by Trump as such
- [12:59] — Epstein’s secret negotiations with the Justice Department before his death
- [17:20] — Epstein as a PR fixer for Gates, leveraging relationships for reputation rehab
- [20:22] — Peter Attia, fallout from association with Epstein over a sick child
- [27:45] — Allegation in government files: “Epstein introduced Melania to Donald Trump”
- [31:00] — Trump calls to federalize/nationalize the US elections
- [34:14] — Tulsi Gabbard’s odd intervention in investigations for Trump
- [42:05] — Epstein’s “spyish” trip to meet Putin, his self-described role as an information broker
- [47:29] — Was Epstein paid by Russians? Wolff says it’s possible, but no smoking gun
- [52:54] — Prediction of the demise of the Kennedy Center as a cultural institution under Trump
- [53:40] — “Oedipus” monologue reflecting on societal decay
- [55:33] — Listener’s haiku: “Chaos is his art”
Overall Tone & Takeaways
This episode blends deep reporting, sharp wit, and the casual candor of two journalists well-versed in the world they critique. Wolff and Coles mine recent “Epstein files” for insight, but never lose sight of the bigger picture—that Trump’s politics and persona are rooted in personal grievance, chaos, and strategy-free improvisation. The episode is as much a commentary on our times as it is about its major players, showing how media, power, scandal, and narrative shape our understanding of American politics.