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- [00:01]
Meta Advertisement Voice
Ray Ban Meta lets you explore the world without a screen getting in the way so you can stay present in the moment.
- [00:06]
Joanna Coles
Hey, Meta, tell me what kind of dessert this is.
- [00:09]
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That's a Stroopwafel, a Dutch waffle with spiced syrup in the middle.
- [00:13]
Joanna Coles
Is it sweet?
- [00:14]
Wayfair Advertisement Voice
Yes. Perfect for a snack or dessert.
- [00:18]
Joanna Coles
Mmm, delicious.
- [00:20]
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- [01:02]
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Fox News is now streaming live on Fox One. When news breaks, we don't just report it. We go beyond the headlines to get the full story. Get live coverage in depth, analysis and perspectives from the voices you trust all in one place. Whether you're at home or on the go. Stay connected to the stories shaping our world stream. Fox News on Fox 1 download today.
- [01:30]
David Rothkopf
Somebody is making money on this. This is for profit. The UFC is controlling the PR for this. Not the White House press office. The Paramount, the broadcasting company owned by the Ellisons, who are his buddies, are controlling the TV rights of this. This is as corrupt a MAGA event as there could possibly be. It's not just his birthday, but of course it's also Flag Day and touted as part of the celebration for the 250th of the United States. What Trump is giving the United states for its 250th birthday is humiliation.
- [02:10]
Joanna Coles
I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast and we are wrapping up the week, a week in which Bill Pulte was finally dispatched where Epstein was suddenly back on the front boiler. And of course we have the UFC fight and the 92 foot claw of on the South Lawn of the White House to look forward to seeing in full Monster energy action on Sunday to celebrate the President as he goes into his ninth decade. Ninth decade. Who better to talk to about all of this? Who, like Tiresias, has foreseen all of it? David Rothkopf. David Rothkopf, who's worked in previous administrations, Democrat administrations, was the editor of Foreign affairs and is the founder of Deep State Radio. David, let's get into it. David Rothkop this is very bewildering because normally we start the week together, but we are closing the week together.
- [03:16]
David Rothkopf
I like to think we're always together.
- [03:17]
Joanna Coles
Joanne well, we're definitely always with Donald Trump. There's no question he's with all of us at all times at this point. It's not been his best week. DAVID I don't want to gloat, I don't want to say I told you so, but it's not been a good week for Donald Trump.
- [03:37]
David Rothkopf
I think Trump is in the middle of the longest losing streak, not only of his career, and that's saying something considering how many bankruptcies and losses he's suffered over the course of his career. But I think he may be in the middle of the biggest losing streak in the history of president presidential politics. I mean, since he started this term in office. I would defy you to come up with something that he has done that is a significant contribution to the people of the United States. But I would also ask you to say, what has he done that has not blown up in his face? And I could say on economics, he's done the big beautiful bill, but the that's produced tax cuts for the rich. And everybody else is angry at the moment. He launched crazy trade wars with the world, which the courts have said he couldn't do, but also caused inflation, the Iran war, the attacks on boats in the Caribbean, which are actually war crimes. Venezuela has produced nothing. The allies are angry with him domestically on healthcare, on the environment, on the economy, on social issues, the Republican Party's health. I mean, literally every week he comes up with a new idea and it fails. And that's Donald Trump 2026.
- [05:07]
Joanna Coles
So this week he's had a very confusing situation in Iran. Are we at war? Are we not at war? He says the war is over, that the Iranians are desperate for a deal, and then everybody's shooting at each other again. But perhaps most significantly, in the last 24 hours, he's decided that the guy he wanted as acting director of the Office of National Intelligence, he's dumping Bill Pulte farewell. Because he literally didn't even have five seconds worth of experience in intelligence at all. He was a mortgage guy.
- [05:46]
David Rothkopf
Well, it wasn't just that, because I think he would have been happy to stick with that. The reality is that there is this law which allows the intelligence community to listen in on certain kinds of phone calls when they're supposedly of nefarious purpose. And the law is on the verge of expiring. And the Democrats Were pretty hard on, took a tough line and said, we're not going to extend this law unless you get rid of this Pulte candidacy. Because he's so. Not just inexperienced, but so ill equipped. I mean, his reputation is terrible. It was obvious he was going to be there just as a hitman. And so what Trump did was he brought in this guy who is now the U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York, which is a prestigious position in the Justice Department. And he was the head of a very big law firm. But again, he has no intelligence experience. So is he better than Pulte, who's a boob? Probably. Might he get through? Because it's always defining deviancy down in this administration. He might get through, but. But the reality is that, as we've mentioned here before, the job of Director of National Intelligence is one of the very few jobs in the government where there is a very explicit job requirement. You have to have experience in the intelligence community, and this guy has none either. Of course, Trump doesn't care. What he wants is somebody loyal who can use the intelligence apparatus to call into question election results and to go after his enemies.
- [07:33]
Joanna Coles
So Jay Clayton is his new choice. Do you think, on balance, he's likely to get past the Senate? I mean, I think Trump had assumed that Bill Pulty, even as acting, because he didn't think he would get through the Senate confirmation hearings process, would at least have 210 days as acting to do quite a lot of damage, fire people and just generally disrupt the intelligence community. Though it's unclear why he wants to do that, other than he still feels aggrieved by what happened to him in the four years between presidencies.
- [08:11]
David Rothkopf
No, actually, I think it's clear why he wanted to do it. I think as he tried to with Tulsi Gabbard, he wants to use the intelligence community to promote conspiracy theories that allow him to call the elections in question, allow him to argue that he should have access to voter rolls, allow him to go after his enemies and so forth. And I think he thought Pulte could do that for him. But Pulte kind stepped in it yesterday. Or we're recording this at the end of the week, but in the middle of the week, Pulte apparently called up Tulsi Gabbard and said, you have to leave office today. And Tulsi Gabbard had originally said she was planning to leave office in a few weeks, and she was blindsided by this, but so was the White House. And when Tulsi Gabbard called up Trump and said, what's up? Trump said, no, I didn't know anything about this. You stay right where you are until you are planning to leave. Probably because she knows things that he doesn't want to piss her off. But Pulte quickly drifted into bad favor. And then there was this vote on the extension of this law. And both of those things worked to his disadvantage. And now we have this guy Clayton. And will he get approved? He probably will, but he definitely should not because he doesn't meet the conditions set forth in the law.
- [09:39]
Joanna Coles
And Trump clearly has said he doesn't care about the midterms. So clearly he does care about the midterms because it's going to curtail his power if the Democrats win Congress and if they win the Senate. What are you hearing from your friends and your sources in, in the intelligence community about Jay Clayton? Are they just anxious about his lack of experience or far too early?
- [10:09]
David Rothkopf
People know him from the Southern District of New York. What they know, unfortunately, is that he took this job which was considered almost a second Attorney Generalship. In other words, it was very independent, very high standards, and very much the law above everything else. And he followed through on a bunch of Trumpian requests which suggested he was willing to bend things a little bit in order to make the President happy. And of course, that kind of loyalty is what Trump is looking for. And that kind of loyalty is what has people throughout the entire government, not just the intelligence community, worried about. They're worried that he's going to politicize and weaponize in the same way that Pulte would have. And frankly, in the same way that Tulsi Gabbard was inclined to go. Does he have higher standards? Are there red lines that he won't cross? We don't know. But it seems unlikely that Trump would have picked somebody who he didn't feel would bend to his will.
- [11:30]
Joanna Coles
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- [13:00]
David Rothkopf
Thursday, what Trump did was he said, I'm going to escalate. And then a few hours later, he said, no, we're having conversations. I'm not going to escalate. And Ms. Now went and did a little bit of reporting on this. And I heard the report and they said this was the eighth time that Trump has said he was going to escalate and then tacoed out and decided not to escalate. Do we believe that there will be a deal? That's one question. I'm not sure that there will be a deal, but I am sure of this. And the people I talk to are sure of this. And that is any deal he comes up with is going to be notable for two reasons. The first reason is it won't be a real deal. It'll be a partial deal. It'll be a deal to keep talking kind of mou to say, okay, let's normalize traffic through the Strait of Hormuz, and we'll talk about the nukes, we'll talk about these other things. And it may include some language about those things of the type that Trump has been bragging about the past few days, which is that the Iranians promise not to have a nuclear weapon or to seek one. Now, why is that not really important? It's not really important because that was the language they adopted in the agreement they signed in 2015. That language has actually been their position as a country for many, many years now. And I think that's the real point. The real point is, will we end up with a better deal in the medium term on nuclear weapons and Iran? On Iran and missiles. On Iran and drones, on the behavior of Iran's proxies in the Middle east, or on Iran and the Strait of Hormuz? And I think the answer on all of these things is no, we will not. It will be a less good deal than the jcpoa. Iran will have more control over the Strait of Hormuz than they had in the past. The Houthis, who are one of the Iranian proxies who entered the war the past few days, have said that if things go the wrong way, they will shut down the entrance to the Red Sea, which they can control, and through which 10% of all commercial traffic in the world travels, commercial shipping traffic, which would be an economic calamity. So what Trump is trying to do is to get the markets to calm down, to get inflation to come down, and to improve the conditions for Republicans in the fall. Cuz he knows that the Democrats in polls this week show are way, way up at their highest levels of advantage over the Republicans in generic races, are likely to take control of the House, may take control of the Senate. And if they do, he will enter a period that John Cornyn, the guy who lost the primary in Texas, said today, we'll make the next two years the biggest nightmare of his life because he will be challenged and everything, get nothing done, have investigations into everything that he's doing. And Cornyn predicted, he said that's what's going to happen. And I think that's what we should expect. I think Donald Trump I wrote something for you in January in which I said 2026 is going to be the worst year of Trump's presidency because all these things are going to blow up. And that's been proven to be the case. But as bad as 2026 is, you ain't seen nothing yet. 2027, 2028, they're going to be terrible for Trump if he makes it through them. And I have to admit, you know, we had a story this week that he saw 22 specialists in his most recent exam. The guy is decrepit. You talk about this in some of your other podcasts, but he's fallen apart at the seams.
- [17:13]
Joanna Coles
Well, he even fell asleep in the Knicks game this week. I mean, how is that possible? It couldn't have been more exciting.
- [17:20]
David Rothkopf
How far was he seated from you, Joanne?
- [17:22]
Joanna Coles
Well, weirdly, he was actually sitting right opposite me, but on the other side of the stadium, he was in a box, so he was slightly higher, but I could watch him the whole time, except that he had bulletproof glass, so it's quite actually difficult to see in there. But the idea that you could fall asleep at a game like that, which was so exciting, goes to one of the specialists he must have been seeing. There's no question he has a sleep disorder. We see that just from the number of truth socials that he posts.
- [17:56]
David Rothkopf
Well, and the question is, is It a sleep disorder? Is it a circulatory disorder? Is it a neurological disorder? We don't know, right? Certainly at that game, which the Knicks at the end lost because Trump was there by four points. There was a lot of shouting and screaming because it was quite close at the very end. And clearly he cursed the Knicks by showing up. But fortunately they recovered. And my only other question on this is. Cause this is not a sports podcast, is you're in England now. Did you stay up late to watch the knicks in game 4?
- [18:33]
Joanna Coles
I stayed up until 3 o' clock in the morning and I got to the end of the first half and I thought, oh no, they're going to lose. And having watched them lose in the stadium on Monday night, I thought, I can't, I can't do it again. And so I went to bed full of gloom and woke up to, you know, the glory of. Well, I woke up to actually a very New York moment, which was that New York had bounced back from the edge of collapse.
- [19:02]
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- [19:33]
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- [20:00]
Joanna Coles
so let's go from the Knicks to UFC. We've seen that enormous claw 92ft high on the south lawn of the White House. How excited are you? Is this going to be a good thing for Trump? Is this going to rally the MAGA base? Or is the MAGA base thinking, this ain't great, he's ruining the White House and he's out of control.
- [20:29]
David Rothkopf
Well, first of all, I seldom use the term MAGA base and thinking in the same sentence. I think what Trump is doing is just being Trump. Since 35 years ago, Trump loved violent sports. He loved going to boxing. He has loved going to wrestling. The head of The WWE is his Secretary of Education right now. He loves going to UFC events. You may recall, coincidentally, the last time he thought that he had a peace deal with Iran, he went to a UFC event in Miami with Marco Rubio. And here we are again, another peace deal brewing. And he's got this thing going on. But this thing is different because it's incredibly corrupt. The United States government has spent tens of millions, allegedly 60 million, probably more, to allow this thing to be created on the south lawn of the White House. To deface the south lawn of the White House with this Las Vegas like structure that has in the middle of it, by the way. I think it's beautiful. It's almost poetic. There's a big advertisement right in the middle of it for Monster Energy, an energy drink. But if there was ever a White House that has monster energy, it's this White House. And essentially he's manifesting that by holding this big party for himself. Thousands of people, but they didn't even wanna come. So he has to paper the house by forcing the military to go to this thing. However, he's giving big benefits to sponsors and donors and others. And somebody is making money on this. This is for profit. The ufc, which is run by his friend Dana White. The UFC is controlling the PR for this. Not the White House press office, the Paramount, the broadcasting company owned by the Ellisons, who are his buddies, are controlling the TV rights of this. This is as corrupt a MAGA event as there could possibly be. And it's also gross. And it's not just his birthday, but, of course, it's also Flag Day and touted as part of the celebration for the 250th of the United States. And as I said again in piece I wrote for you last week, what Trump is giving the United states for its 250th birthday is humiliation. Because this is humiliating. Imagine Keir Starmer. Well, I mean, imagine Keir Starmer leaving and going out to dinner. I mean, he doesn't even do that much. But imagine some foreign leader, some European leader, some Asian leader hosting this. What a source of ridicule it would be. It's like, I don't know, the closest example I can think of is the Roman Colosseum. It's weird.
- [23:32]
Joanna Coles
It seems increasingly desperate, doesn't it, that Trump is sort of giving away everything at this point. He tore down the East Wing and he sold the ballroom to people that will write him a check. Now he's got UFC on the lawn of the White House. Apparently, the fighters will emerge from the Oval Office. So perhaps they're leaving their sweaty toweling robes draped over his chair behind the desk. I mean, it. The imagery of it itself is just strange. Will they be barefoot when they come out from the Oval Office? It's so, as you say, debasing that it's hard to believe. And yet what I have found interesting about this particular week is that the story that the war managed to put on the back burner, the story that UFC managed to put on the back burner is suddenly back, the Epstein story with the excerpt of Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan's book about this second Trump presidency and of course, the Epstein files and the panic that the Epstein files was causing Donald Trump's tea.
- [24:44]
David Rothkopf
Yeah, it was a great excerpt. I mean, we can have a debate about this habit that these people have of reporting things and then not releasing the findings until they do a book that they profit from as opposed to breaking the news when they discover it. But the details in this are of a Trump inner circle that realize just how damaging this is and are desperately searching for a way out. Led, by the way, the most chicken shit of the bunch, I think, is J.D. vance. And like, no, we've got to come up with something. And Trump, they're all being afraid of Trump because they know that he responds to all of this stuff irrationally. And I'm sure there will be more about this, but I think the most important thing is that there's still 3 million pages of this thing that have not been released. It is very clear that a lot of stuff that referred to Trump has been erased. And frankly, I think probably a bunch of it has been destroyed. It's very clear that offering Todd Blanch the Attorney General job, since he has been the principal protector of Trump on this issue, was designed to reward him for this and to maintain his loyalty. But I also think it's a problem because if Todd Blanche wants to get a confirmed, he's going to be answering a lot of questions about why he did a deal with Ghislaine Maxwell and what did he do to obstruct justice and why he didn't release everything and where are the 3 million pages and so forth. And so I think Trump, in order to buy Blanche's loyalty, has made a terrible mistake because keeping Blanche in the center of attention keeps Epstein in the center of attention. And then there's this book, and Epstein's not going away because somewhere deep inside of it is a story that Trump doesn't want to come out. And it may be Obvious, Right? Because we know that there was a woman who testified under penalty of perjury about Trump allegedly committing rape and about Trump threatening people. And so I think you're absolutely right. Trump's got all these balls in the air and he's trying to distract everybody. But the thing that he's trying to distract them from actually is only growing bigger and more ominous. And if you take that and combine that with the economy and Trump's idiotic statement this week that he likes inflation. Oh, I love inflation. That's a good thing. Republican kept who are running for office in November are petrified.
- [27:49]
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- [28:16]
Joanna Coles
specialoffer what I found interesting about the exit was this sense in which this team in the White House, the American People's House, had commandeered the most important room in the White House other than the Oval Office, the situation room. The situation room where we saw Obama and Hillary looking anxious, as you knew, that they were watching Osama bin Laden being seized. I mean, it's a historic room for historic events, nevertheless, being used as a room where Trump's people could go without Trump to discuss how they were going to manage the Epstein crisis.
- [28:57]
David Rothkopf
Well, look, I mean, you know, it's a secure place. It's down in the basement. It's not a very big room. It's not as dramatic as it appears in. It used to look kind of like a rec room. Now it's a little more high tech than that, having been in it many, many, many times. But it's secured, it's out of the way, and it sent the message to everybody that this was a very serious meeting about a serious topic. But it cuts to your other point. Five minutes ago, you noted that the Oval Office was going to be used as a locker room for UFC match, you know, and, you know, I mean, Trump is defasing and defacing everything he touches in Washington, whether it's by, you know, spraying gold paint on it or by using it to cover up the Epstein thing, or by using it as a locker room or by using it to generate bribes like he's doing with the ballroom or he's doing with this monstrosity on this half lawn. He. It's not surprising. There are a lot of reports that there is a kind of a stench about Trump these days. They suggest that there may be some bodily reason for that. But there's a stench about Trump morally and ethically, too. And wherever he goes, that stench attaches. And certainly a lot of people make this joke. But when Trump leaves, they're going to have to fumigate the White House. They're going to have to do everything they can to remove traces of Trump, including his walkway, attacking his political enemies and his little monuments to himself, because he has stained it. And you're giving a couple of really good examples of how that has happened here. He's desecrated the People's House.
- [30:55]
Joanna Coles
Can it be retooled by someone else? I mean, is this a forever moment, or is this just the passing of yet another president through those hallowed walls?
- [31:10]
David Rothkopf
Look, you know, Monica Lewinsky, who I personally, like, allegedly performed an act on Bill Clinton from underneath the desk in the Oval Office. JFK did some things.
- [31:27]
Joanna Coles
I thought they went into a little antechamber where. Where Trump has now erected a sort of little shop to buy all his USA chuckers and Trump winning chachkas.
- [31:38]
David Rothkopf
Well, there is the little room that connects to the Oval Office. That's part of the Oval Office. It's connected by door.
- [31:44]
Joanna Coles
Oh, it's. Is it technically the Oval Office still? Because I.
- [31:47]
David Rothkopf
No, no, it's. It's a private room for the President next to the Oval Office. But that's the room that he watched January 6th in and threw the ketchup at the walls on and so forth. But the point is, lots of horrible stuff. What did JFK do in there? Who did he sleep with? And Lord knows what kind of horrible stuff has gone on there. I think people will see in the White House what they want to see. And typically, what they project onto a national monument like that is not just veneration for the past, it's their hopes for the future. And if somebody comes in and starts dealing with people's problems and restores dignity to the office, I think they'll be able to turn the page. Now, do you leave up the ballroom? Do you leave up this big giant arch? Do you leave up all the gold leaf in the Oval Office? I don't think so. I think anything that screams Trumpian vulgarity or Trumpian corruption is going to have to be surgically removed from the White House and from the rest of Washington.
- [32:58]
Joanna Coles
And the reflecting pool will be reflecting
- [33:03]
David Rothkopf
in the interest of sounding balanced, which I'm not. I think it looks pretty good. You know, it looks like it's done. Looks like it's reflecting. Looks a little. The color is a little better. I mean, it's a crazy waste of money, and it's crazy that he is caught up in it. But of all the redecoration that he's done in Washington, it's probably the least offensive.
- [33:29]
Joanna Coles
Well, it's reflecting his monster energy.
- [33:33]
David Rothkopf
Yeah, exactly. Monster. Trump's monster energy is going to be the theme of this weekend, whether he likes it or not.
- [33:42]
Joanna Coles
I'm not going to pretend that I'm not glad to be actually out of Washington and in Europe, actually, even though Britain has its own crisis. The defense minister has just resigned today saying that Keir Starmer, the British Prime Minister, won't give him enough money to protect Britain. And there are. Or the armed services in Britain now are really only up to defending a small country town.
- [34:08]
David Rothkopf
Well, I mean, there was a point there where the New York Police Department had more police in it than the British army had soldiers. But there is a British story this week that is relevant in the broader context of what we're talking about here, and that is that you saw these violent demonstrations in Northern Ireland against immigrants, which were provoked or egged on by Elon Musk and involved immigrants being dragged out of burning buildings and set on fire themselves and so forth. And here in the United States, I don't know if you picked up on this, but Mark Wayne Mullen, our Secretary of Homeland Security, who I like to refer to as Kung Fu Plumber because of his background, the Kung Fu plumber, who is in charge of the Department of Homeland Security, said he admired what they were doing in Northern Ireland because, after all, all they want is Ireland to be for the Irish. And so we have this administration essentially coming out and saying, yeah, we're pro pogrom, we are pro violent acts against immigrants. Of course not news. That's what they do every day over at dhs. But it's interesting because I know that these demonstrations have caused great controversy within the UK that the position of the Trump administration is, yeah, burn the immigrants. Great idea.
- [35:39]
Joanna Coles
Oh, goodness, David, what a week. Well, we will be watching this weekend to see what happens on the South Lawn of the White House. Who saunters out of the Oval Office in their shorts and whatever tattoo they have on their chest. And I wonder who will win. We should check the markets, the betting markets, to see who the money is on.
- [36:03]
David Rothkopf
Well, I can tell you I will follow this from the perspective of what it might mean politically or socially, but I have zero interest in it as a sporting event. I will, however, watch the Knicks game on Saturday night.
- [36:16]
Joanna Coles
I think everybody will be watching the Knicks game on Saturday night. David, very good to see you. Thank you for joining us. Always good to wrap up the week with you and we look forward to starting the week with you on Monday.
- [36:30]
David Rothkopf
I look forward to it too, as safe travels.
- [36:32]
Joanna Coles
Gillian, thank you. Well, David Rothkopf, our columnist at the Daily Beast, did predict that this was going to be Donald Trump's worst year. And yet now he's predicting that next year and the year after will be even worse for the President as he reaps what he's sown across Washington and across the world. Are we still at war? Who knows? How will the fight go? Who knows? Will Epstein still hang over him? I think he will. I think he. He will. We will be back tomorrow with Inside Trump's Head. And we have a special episode for you tomorrow on how did we Get Here with Donald Trump Anyway, something I hope you will enjoy. And if you have been, thank you for joining us. Leave us a comment on YouTube. Let us know what your favorite part of today's podcast was, what you agreed with David Rothcott for, where you don't agree. More importantly, big thanks to our production team, Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.
- [37:51]
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- [38:18]
Joanna Coles
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- [38:20]
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