Why Trump's Blatant Grift Will Cost Him Dearly

Summary

The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode Title: Why Trump's Blatant Grift Will Cost Him Dearly
Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Stephanie Ruhle (MSNBC/NBC News host)
Date: June 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode takes a sharp, dynamic look at the current state of the U.S. economy, the impact of Trump’s second presidency—specifically the grift and economic struggles it has fostered—and the knock-on effects for ordinary Americans and the world. Host Joanna Coles and guest Stephanie Ruhle critically dissect Trump’s “blatant grift,” oligarchic power, shifting political alliances, economic pain points, and the collapse of trust in institutions. The conversation ranges from geopolitics and war to the granular realities of daily life, wealth inequity, and even a lively sidebar on the politics of beauty and the future of news media.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trump’s Iran War, Oil, and Economic Fallout

[02:24–06:45]

• Trump’s policies, especially his escalating confrontation with Iran, have had significant and immediate impacts on global and domestic markets—primarily through the closure of the Strait of Hormuz and resultant fuel price spikes.
• Stephanie: “This is not a war that’s being measured in body bags. It’s being measured in price at the pump.” ([04:17])
• The disconnect between market highs (led by “the magnificent seven” tech companies) and the real economy—especially for Americans not invested in the market.
• Everyday Americans (“even my mother, who voted for Trump”) judge the economy in lived experiences: grocery bills, gas prices, healthcare costs.

2. Inequality, Oligarchs, and Political Donations

[07:03–13:51]

• The “K-shaped recovery” post-COVID has only accelerated, birthing what Ruhle calls “American oligarchs” with greater wealth and political influence than ever before.
• SpaceX’s IPO likely to create the first trillionaire (Elon Musk) and a “slate of new billionaires.”
• Stephanie: “Now that we have created these massive American oligarchs who have more power...than we have ever seen businesspeople have over policymaking, I think this is a game changer.” ([08:32])
• Campaigns (Republican and Democratic alike) are flush with out-of-state billionaire funding, warping the political playing field and accountability.

3. The “Eat the Rich” Sentiment and Who Drives It

[11:35–13:51]

• Ruhle dispels the myth that only Democrats want to “eat the rich”—many disaffected, non-politically affiliated voters (including original MAGA supporters) now feel the system is rigged for the ultra-wealthy.
• Richest Americans exploit legal tax avoidance schemes inaccessible to normal people, fueling resentment.
• Stephanie: “This country doesn't work for me. And many of those Americans are the original MAGA voters who Donald Trump appealed to ... now ... are not with Donald Trump anymore, are just saying, this country, this world doesn’t work. I’m ready to break the system.” ([12:55])

4. Corruption, Grift, and Accountability

[13:51–17:24]

• Trump’s “big beautiful bill” further enriched the top while raising healthcare premiums for millions, but most Americans don’t focus on legislative details—they feel the pinch in daily life.
• The current scale of grift is overwhelming, and Trump’s open boasts that “people don’t care” about the corruption is only partly true.
• Stephanie: “People’s eyes are glazing over and they can’t even follow it all. That’s why we literally have a segment on our show every night, White House for Sale, to make sure we’re covering it and it’s in one cohesive place so we don’t forget it.” ([16:30])
• Democrats’ challenge: reframe the election around “affordability and accountability”—learn from Republican tactics (“Democrats need to birth their own Trey Gowdy”).

5. Sycophancy, Cabinet Loyalty, and Institutional Decay

[20:50–26:24]

• Joanna probes how major financial figures like Scott Besant (Treasury Secretary) and Howard Lutnick (Commerce Secretary) have bent the knee to Trump, with Stephanie noting that “the number one job qualification in Trump’s second term is loyalty to Trump.”
• Stephanie: “I’m watching in disbelief...these people who have lots of credibility, or lots of success, would bend? But I think we knew that going in.” ([21:47])
• Tech CEOs and billionaires, emboldened by lax regulation, are unlikely to challenge Trump due to unprecedented access and short-term gain.
• Even Fed independence is at risk: Kevin Warsh, new Fed Chair, is “super qualified,” but will face immense pressure from Trump to act politically—and may be hoping for Democratic congressional gains to increase his independence.

6. Global Perceptions of the U.S.

[29:44–30:31]

• International business and political allies now see America as transactional, “everybody’s in it for themselves,” reversing decades of globalization and making the world “less safe and more expensive for all of us.”

7. Culture Chat: Beauty Trends & Social Reality

[30:31–34:23]

• A playful but insightful tangent about the social and psychological costs of beauty standards in young women: hair extensions, eyelash extensions, Spanx, and the awkward logistics of sex and dating amid all this effort.
• Stephanie: “They are the sexiest, most gorgeous bombshells...but how do they go home with somebody? ... He gets stuck in a net. And then you peel your eyelashes off and your face of orange is left on its pillow.” ([31:04])
• Gen Z is having markedly less sex, possibly linked to complexity and anxiety about “unpeeling” constructed beauty.
• Eyelash extensions dubbed “the most delicious and deadly addiction one could ever have.” ([33:37])

8. The Future of News Media and “Money, Power, Politics”

[35:19–37:35]

• Stephanie promotes her new show, “Money Power Politics,” focused on the intersection of business, culture, and politics for real people—not just investors.
• The show will feature expert roundtables and participatory live studios to reconnect audiences with media that matters.

9. 60 Minutes, Free Press, and Institutional Upheaval

[38:25–51:37]

• Detailed discussion of turmoil at CBS and 60 Minutes: mass firings, Bari Weiss’s controversial hire, and editorial meddling concerns amid larger trends of non-experts running news operations.
• The existential threat to investigative journalism and free press, with the decline of institutional memory and the persistent value of experience.
• Stephanie: “The truth is not bias. It’s just that some people don’t want to hear the truth, because the truth is not always attractive for you.” ([43:46])
• Corporate conglomerates (like the Ellisons) are focused more on content control and regulatory approval than the civic value of news.

10. Reflections on Journalism’s Resilience

[52:42–53:11]

• Despite lawsuits, funding threats, and targeting by Trump, journalists continue to push boundaries and expose corruption:
• Stephanie: “Every day I’m blown away, especially as it relates to the grift, of journalists just leaning in and leaning in...this is after we’ve seen organizations lose funding from the government. They’re still continuing to forge on. And I think that’s inspiring.” ([52:46])

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Notable Quotes

• Stephanie Ruhle:

  • “You cannot lie to the American people or any people about our lived experience.” ([04:28])
  • “We now have American oligarchs.” ([07:48])
  • “Journalism...is alive and well and strong as ever. Every single day there’s another story out there about the grift.” ([14:17])
  • “This country doesn’t work for me...many of those Americans are the original MAGA voters who Donald Trump appealed to...now...are just saying, this country, this world doesn’t work. I’m ready to break the system.” ([12:55])
  • “People’s eyes are glazing over and they can’t even follow it all. That’s why we literally have a segment on our show every night, White House for Sale...” ([16:30])
  • “The number one qualification...was loyalty to Trump.” ([26:06])
  • “The truth is not bias. It’s just that some people don’t want to hear the truth, because the truth is not always attractive for you.” ([43:46])

• Joanna Coles:

  • “Only 50% of the American population are in the market. That’s fine for rich people...but the other half don’t have even $500 in case of emergency.” ([06:46])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump’s Iran War & Economic Fallout: [02:24]–[06:45]
• Oligarchs & Wealth Inequality: [07:03]–[13:51]
• Eat the Rich Sentiment: [11:35]–[13:51]
• Corruption & Grift: [13:51]–[17:24]
• Cabinet Sycophancy: [20:50]–[26:24]
• Fed Independence & Kevin Warsh: [23:27]–[28:21]
• World Reacts to U.S.: [29:44]–[30:31]
• Beauty Standards & Gen Z Dating: [30:31]–[34:23]
• Stephanie’s New Show: [35:19]–[37:35]
• 60 Minutes Upheaval: [38:25]–[51:37]
• Reflections on Journalism: [52:42]–[53:11]

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Memorable Moments

• Stephanie’s comically detailed account of the hazards of beauty culture: “If you have got eyelashes on, if you’ve got this hair sewn into your head, how do you go home with a guy?” ([31:04])
• The “White House for Sale” segment: “We literally have a segment on our show every night...to make sure we’re covering it and it’s in one cohesive place so we don’t forget it.” ([16:30])
• Vivid description of sycophantic business roundtables with Trump (“How can I lick you more?” ([21:36]))
• Reflection on the resilience of bootstrapped journalism as institutions weaken.

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Tone & Style

The episode is fast-paced, incisive, often irreverent and candid—typical Daily Beast energy. Both host and guest combine sharp political analysis with pop culture references, a vein of dark humor, and real empathy for regular Americans.

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Summary Takeaway

For listeners, this episode delivers crucial context and unvarnished insight into why Trump’s open pursuit of self-enrichment is different from the past, more politically dangerous than many realize, and why the American power structure—from economic policy to the media—is being fundamentally reshaped. Stephanie Ruhle’s blend of seriousness, skepticism, and humor makes this a must-listen for people looking to understand the intersection of money, politics, and power in 2026.

Transcript

[A]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a try.

[B]

@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] every single day there's another story out there about the grip. They just say, hold on, you're the person in office, you have more. You now finally have the supreme wealth. You always said you did. A specific group of business people are wealthier beyond belief. And I'm not. What hurt Joe Biden, what hurt Kamala Harris is that people were still struggling economically. And they look and see and they say, who's in the White House? And they blame that person. What's unique about Donald Trump is the reason many of these people are struggling economically is a direct result of his policies.

[A]

I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast and we have a fantastic guest for you today. And we range through the economy, the Fed, sex with hair extensions, sex with eyelash extensions, and her new television show which is about money, power and politics. I'm talking of course about Stephanie Rule, the Ms. Now presenter. She's been hosting the 11th Hour, but on Monday she gets her own new two hour show where she's going to be talking about, well, money, politics, power, all of it. All of it. But she has particular opinions about Donald Trump's economy, about Scott Besant and Howard Lutnick and how they've become so sycophantic. And how did that happen? And is the same thing going to happen to the new Fed chairman, Kevin Walsh? No time to waste. Press your subscription button now. Don't forget, we are independent media. We appreciate and we need your support. Stephanie Rule, let's get into it. Stephanie Rule, we've already begun our conversation. Today we are going to cover the state of the economy, the impact of the war. But just as interestingly, what young women are doing, beauty wise, does it make them sexier? And Stephanie wants to know, how do you have sex with a weird hair weave? And when do you take the eyelashes out?

[B]

And Spanx.

[A]

And Spanx. Okay, so we're going to get to that. That's the important stuff. Also with we're going to talk about the Fed. But first, Stephanie, you're a brilliant observer of the economy. Trump's war in Iran seems to have had much more of an impact than he would have expected, not least because the Iranians have closed the Strait of Hormuz, something that any basic war gaming would have shown you was about to happen. What is the impact on the American economy first? And then let's talk about the global economy, and then let's talk about the

[B]

market, because we have always said the market and the economy are not the same thing, but now more than ever. And as soon as he launched into this, every big investor I spoke to was like, this isn't gonna last more than five days. And I mean, big, sophisticated investors. And the funny thing is, they continue to buy his line the whole time. Every time you talk to someone, they're basically like, I just talked to him, or I just talked to Howard, or I just talked to Scott Besant. They're wrapping this thing up. Trump very clearly wants to wrap this up.

[A]

Of course he does. He promised to do a forever war.

[B]

He jumped into this ignoring intelligence, which is why our NATO allies said, we're not jumping in with you. You didn't tell us you ignored intelligence. He thought this could be another victory, like Venezuela was. I saw the President the day of the State of the Union. I had lunch at the White House, and the President has sort of just come off. It was right around the time of Venezuela, and he was sort of. You know, he loves talking about the strength of the Middle and the beautiful soldiers and their might, and that was joyful for him. Right? You had people in Venezuela partying, you know, celebrating in the streets here. I mean, all over the world. He wanted to have that again. And you're actually watching him now try to leapfrog over Iran and talk about, well, guess what? Cuba is right around the corner. You hear it from Marco Rubio.

[A]

Leapfrog over Iran. What a great phrase. So talk to me about the impact of it, because this is not a war that's being measured in body bags. It's being measured in the price at the pump.

[B]

And look at the price of the pump, not just here, but around the world. Like, we're actually seeing jet fuel shortages around the world. We see gas prices have gone down a little, but they're still very high. Food prices are high. Talk to the American farmer. Talk to the American farmer. Who needs diesel, which is high. Who needs fertilizer, which is high. And the president, you know, he wants to talk like, well, affordability is an old Fashioned term, it's not important. This is really hurting the President. I would argue that economically or even across the board before Iran, I think the President was really happy. I think he existed very much in a gilded cage at the White House and at Mar a Lago, surrounded by an administration who truly bows at his altar and surrounded by business people who are making an extraordinary amount of money, whether on their own or they've got government contracts now. But that's who's rolling at Mar a Lago this term. But step away from that and go to the American people. Go to Trump's actual voters, right? Go, go to my mother, right, who voted for Donald Trump, who she believes Donald Trump, when he says there's a caravan of criminals coming from South America and they're going to attack your grandchildren and steal your job. She's gonna believe that cuz she doesn't see it. But you cannot lie to the American people or any people about our lived experience. And we know exact, my mother knows exactly how much her groceries cost, how much her gas cost. And we saw it in these primaries. And so you're watching all of these Republicans just sort of on pins and needles. How many times have we heard from this White House? Trump's gonna go on an economic tour. He can't. He doesn't have a message. Just three days ago when he sat down with Kristen Welker, when he talks about the economy, he immediately turns to the market, right? And the market is doing extraordinarily well. Corporate profits are super strong. But even if you look under that hood, it's the massive tech companies and it's the magnificent seven. If you talk to lots of Fortune 500 companies that are not in the tech space, where they're not booming because of AI or they are impacted by the tariffs or mass deportations, many of those companies are suffering. And if we see any sort of puncturing, which I don't necessarily think we will, in the AI superpowers, then it's going to be devastating.

[A]

But also only 50% of the American population are in the market. Correct. So that's fine for rich people or people who feel that they're taking care and they have financial security. But we know that the other half don't have even $500 in case of emergency.

[B]

And we haven't even talked about health care. Right. At the end of last year, before we spent billions and billions and billions on this war, Republicans argument was we do not want to spend a dime continuing expand, you know, on Obamacare subsidies. It's time for them to expire. So there's so much news out there. We don't even talk about the fact that, that American people have seen their healthcare premiums spike and they are struggling. And what's interesting is we always, we had, coming out of COVID right, we had a K shaped economy. The rich were getting richer and the poor were getting poorer. Joanna, this has been supercharged. And I don't just mean the rich. Think about the richest of the rich are so unimaginably wealthy. Now we now have the American oligarchs, right?

[A]

No, we're about to get our first trillionaire with the SpaceX IPO and Elon Musk.

[B]

And it's not just elon. With the SpaceX IPO, we're going to have a whole slate of new billionaires. And while one might say, well, I'm mad that they're so rich, but what does that have to do with my life, here's where it does. Because now that investor class is donating so much money to these campaigns, right? We're 16 years out from Citizens United, where you can now have an unlimited amount of corporate dollars in political campaigns and you've got the wealthiest of the wealthy people. Now that we live in a Donald Trump world who understand that politicians are transactional. Donald Trump is completely transactional. And so, you know, when John Cornyn lost his primary in Texas, people said, well, Ken Paxton's not gonna be as good at raising money. Yes, he is. He absolutely is. Right? When Thomas Massie lost his primary in Kentucky, it was the most expensive primary we've seen. The majority of people writing those big checks have never set a big toe in the state of Kentucky. But. But now that we have created these massive American oligarchs who have more power and influence than we have ever seen business people have over policy making, I think this is a game changer.

[A]

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[B]

I do not think it will. I don't think the richest are just going to vote Republican. I don't at all.

[A]

And I mean, lots of people actually end up giving money to both, right, just to make sure that they're covered.

[B]

But I mean, at the end of the day, I would say most business people, and I'm not talking about sort of the Peter Thiel, Elon Musk universe of guys sitting in the corner saying, I'd like to run the world, not them. I mean, your run of the mill Fortune 500 CEO is basically saying, I don't want to care about politics. I want to get my, you know, I want to make sure my customers show up, my shareholders happy, and my employees don't quit. And most CEOs really want us to follow the rule of law and three separate but equal branches of government. They would not choose a completely transactional president. Because also, Joanna, there's a lot of CEOs that don't actually have the money or the leverage to roll up to the White House and say, would you like gold bars and an airplane? Right? There's a lot, right?

[A]

How can I donate a special wing? Tom?

[B]

Correct. It's easy for me to say, well, those CEOs can just get Howard Lutnick on the phone. They can, but lots of them don't have the money to fork over some giant check for X, Y or Z. So, no, I do not think that the president has the wealthy class on lock, however, and I'm not defending it or insulting it, the eat the rich sentiment, which I don't think is unique to Democrats. I think there are lots of Americans who have no political affiliation with who are furious about their job prospects, their inability to buy a home, their cost of living. They are angry. And it's funny because I was at a conference not long ago in California and with all big investors, and they were panicked about this idea of democratic socialism and Mamdani. And I'm like, I don't think Mamdani is the one leading this. I think you guys are causing the eat the rich sentiment. Your ability to skirt paying taxes legally, right? Your ability to have an app on your phone so you move out of the state of California or you move out of the state of New York, so you're sleeping in a lower tax state and counting the amount of nights that you sleep in Texas or sleep in Florida. So you. And you know what's amazing about that? You and I could never. I didn't even move to the state of New Jersey because I didn't want one extra minute of commute time between working and being home with my family. And you have the richest of the rich people, right, playing geographic twister on their planes to make sure they can be in the lowest taxed place to not pay their taxes. That was not a factor for either of us. And we make a fraction of the amount of money of the super, super rich. But what I actually think, I think this eat the rich sentiment is not being led by a group of Democrats. I think it's being led by, by Americans who are saying, this country doesn't work for me. And many of those Americans are the original MAGA voters who Donald Trump appealed to because he said, you feel forgotten. You feel that there aren't jobs for you in this country. I'm your guy. And now many of those people who don't necessarily have a political affiliation are not with Donald Trump anymore, are just saying, this country, this world doesn't work. I'm ready to break the system.

[A]

So do you think the impact of the big beautiful bill, which enabled even more money to go to billionaires and high net worth individuals, as they're referred to, and took, you know, raised the health care premiums of millions of people and lots of people chose not to renew, as you know, for Obamacare. Do you think that has actually a knock on effect in the midterms?

[B]

I don't think it has a direct knock on effect. I think your average person, even your informed person isn't digging that much into the big beautiful bill. But they're just looking at life, right? They're just saying my life doesn't work for me. And they listen. Journalism, I would say great journalism is alive and well and strong as ever. Every single day. There's another story out there about the grift. There's another story out there about World Liberty Financial and the President's crypto business or the President suddenly buying thousands and thousands of shares of companies that he just met with are suddenly saying you should buy a Dell computer. And then Michael dell gets a nine and a half billion dollar government contract and their stock's up 30%. People see that, right? They don't necessarily dial back into what was in the big beautiful bill, what tax breaks were given, but they just say, hold on, you're the person in office, you have more. You now finally have the supreme wealth. You always said you did. A specific group of business people are wealthy or beyond belief. And I'm not. This isn't working. And I don't think that's unique to President Trump. Listen, what hurt Joe Biden, what hurt Kamala Harris is that people were still struggling economically and they look and see and they say who's in the White House? And they blame that person. What's unique about Donald Trump is the reason many of these people are struggling economically is a direct result of his policies.

[A]

He also seems to think that people don't care. I mean, he says that people don't care about the grift. We know that he's made at least two, possibly three or up to $4 billion in this second presidency and he openly says people don't care. They just don't care.

[B]

I don't believe that to be true. However, I think there are two things that have to be the Democrats have to be focused on and it's affordability and accountability. Like, he's not wrong. There is such a flood of corruption that we're potentially seeing or grift and a lot of people say will say, like what about Nancy Pelosi stock trading or what about Hunter Biden? Those two examples that I gave are like this compared to the mega grift. Like just even think about the presidential pardon industrial complex that we have right now. It's gargantuan. And he's not wrong in that. People's eyes are glazing over and they can't even follow it all. That's why, I mean we literally have a segment on our show that we do nightly White House for sale because I want to make question mark. I want to make sure every night we're covering it and it's in one cohesive place so we don't forget it. But it is on the Democrats. And I'm not saying I have a tremendous amount of confidence for them to say this election is about affordability and accountability. Here's what we are going to do to make your life more affordable. And here's what we're going to do to, to actually demand accountability. Right. It was Tim Miller who said it. They need to co opt a Trey Gowdy from what Trey Gowdy did with the Benghazi hearings. Democrats need to birth their own Trey Gowdy to say, we're going to look at every single one of these things and we're going to pull you guys in and have hearings.

[A]

It's also what Petter Magyar did in Hungary, right, where he managed to make it clear that the corruption under Viktor Orban actually had an impact on the regular population, because Orban had had a grip on that country. And yet it was one of his own people that started his own party that was able to connect the population to the corruption and why their lives felt worse.

[B]

That is the best example. The one CEO we've heard even marginally talk about this was Jamie Dimon. When JP Morgan did not write a check for the ballroom, he said, Trump's not always going to be in power. This thing, he didn't say this thing smells to the high heavens. But he said, I don't wanna be in a situation in the next go around, in the next administration when they turn around and they say this is corrupt.

[A]

So when he said that, and I agree, I mean, you're like, finally someone is saying something like this and he's very clear about what he thinks. Why does this seem such short termism, especially for the tech guys who are sucking up to Trump like this? Do they not think there will be a Democratic president in their future?

[B]

So I would say two things. So first, I think when Jamie Dimon said that and we said, why don't more. Why don't other people do that? Well, they don't, because soon after saying that, Trump sued Jamie Dimon, I think to the tune of $5 billion, JP Morgan and him personally.

[A]

And that was because they decided to debank him after January 6th. Correct?

[B]

Correct, correct, correct. Which, by the way, if you ever understood sort of the very basic banking rules of kyc, know your client, right? You have to understand the person who's banking with you, where they got that money from, where that money was made, how it's being used. And if you cannot answer that question, then you should not be banking with them.

[A]

Things that could have been applied to Jeffrey Epstein when they were banking him. We are moving swiftly on why didn't, why don't more of the tech people seem to think, like, there's gonna be a Democrat in the House at some point I'm gonna have to account for this.

[B]

So I think they have never had so much access to power. They have never had so much control. Right. I mean, I almost said Donald Trump doesn't know what AI stands for, but it's extraordinary.

[A]

Trump's Education secretary didn't know what it stood for. He thought it was Linda McMahon.

[B]

Think about how much influence they have been able to have over the president. AI is just one. AI is going to change every element of the way that we live. And Donald Trump is basically given carte blanche in terms of regulation. And so I think, like, they're gonna go while the going is good. And I think many of them in the Elon Musk averse have so much power and influence. I don't know that they think it's going to change. And listen, I don't know that Democrats have clearly shown what accountability looks like. Look no further than social media regulation. Okay. Almost more than laying blame to the billionaires or the business people, I lay it on lawmakers because lawmakers, not across the board, but for a quick check of $25,000 here and $25,000 there. Show me the massive legislation that you saw either party pass over the last 15 years when it comes to social media.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

An industry that we know has had devastating impact on our lives.

[A]

So you knew both Scott Besant and Howard Lutnick before they became treasury and Commerce Secretary, respectively. Were you surprised at how sycophantic they've become?

[B]

This is a great question. I mean, Howard is a salesman. Howard is not an economist. Howard is a salesman. And Cantor Fitzgerald is a middleman. It's a broker's broker. I mean, I would say I'm more surprised by Scott when people say that. Like, why does Scott get tongue tied on tv? I think he's tongue tied on TV because he knows many times when he's on tv, he's not being honest. Certainly not when he talks about tariffs. That's for sure. I think.

[A]

I mean, when they sit around the table and they go, Mr. President, you are the greatest president. Oh, Mr. President, how can I lick you more?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

I was just surprised by that. Yes.

[B]

No, it's stunning to see it. That's when I'm like, wait, are we in North Korea? But we should look no further than the transition. Right. Howard Lutnick and Linda McMahon, who wanted to be the Commerce Secretary before Howard said ba boom. He said very clearly, the number one job qualification in Trump's second term is loyalty to Trump. So while when I watch it, I watch in disbelief that these people who have Lots of credibility or lots of success would bend. Like, I'm like, why would. You know, you're on television. Like, why would you do that? But I think we knew that going in. I mean, it was a knife fight for all these people to get these positions, and now that they have them, they're not letting go. If you think back to Trump's first term, there was one meeting where he brought these CEOs in the business roundtable. Yes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it was not the official business roundtable, but it was like his business advisors. Right. And I remember Jeff Immelt was there, and he made.

[A]

Who at the time was running ge.

[B]

Yes. And he made Jeff tell Jeff. It was like, tell them the story

[A]

of when I hit a hole in one.

[B]

Actually, it was two holes in one that day. And I remember watching, like, Jeff Immelt just like, I'm watching his face as he's just like, yes, Mr. You know what I mean? He's like, I'm at the White House. What am I gonna do? And I remember that day being like, these CEOs are not gonna last on these councils. And sure enough, they didn't. That is such a quaint, distant memory of like, yes, you hit a hole in one. Now it's like, when did you get great at being perfect, Mr. President? And they all just go around the table and say it.

[A]

It's just remarkable. So he's gone after the Fed, has famously gone after Chairman Powell, gone after Lisa Cook on the Fed board, set the DOJ on her to try and, well, set Bill Pulte, in fact, the new head of intelligence, on her to try and find discrepancies in how she claimed things for her mortgage. Kevin Walsh is the new Fed chairman. How you know him, right? So does the same thing happen to him? Is he. Is he going to be able to maintain the independence of the Fed?

[B]

So he's in a more unique position than Scott Besant and Howard Lutnick, that he's not part of the. He's not part of the administration. Right. He is part of the Fed. Now, Kevin Warsh does want to make big changes to the Fed, Right. It was a blood sport getting this position. He wanted it before he got what he wanted. He. If I were a betting woman. It was funny when his confirmation was getting delayed and delayed, I kept saying, I'm like, I bet he wants it delayed. I bet he would love for this thing to get. The further it gets to the midterms or past the midterms when he actually has a little bit of room. I don't know what he's going to do, but it's going to be very tricky for him because inflation being where it is, Donald Trump wanting rates to get cut and inflation being where it is, this isn't. Even if Kevin Warsh wanted to do it pre war in Iran, even if he wanted to do it six months ago. It's tricky, but it's funny. Like people dog, especially like on social media, people will dog on me because remember when you said Scott Besant was qualified? Scott Besant was qualified. He is qualified. It doesn't mean he's doing the job. Right. It doesn't mean he's doing the job. Honestly, Kevin Warsh is super qualified to do this job. He's highly respected. I mean, he's been in the government before. He spent the last number of years as Stan Druckenmiller's partner. Stan is one of the greatest living investors that I can even think of. What Kevin is going to do, how he is going to manage the pressures of Trump, that remains to be seen.

[A]

Well, and we've talked a lot on this podcast about the real skill of surviving around Trump is managing Trump is not thinking that you should actually do the job in hand. It's all about how you manage him. And the job is almost immaterial.

[B]

And that's actually when you think back to Trump 1.0, there's the books and the stories of, you know, them, you know, playing Three Card Monty, you know, Gary Cohn and Jared and Mnuchin with like trying to hide some, you know, they don't want Trump to see this or they don't want Trump to this.

[A]

They're taking things literally off his desk.

[B]

Literally off his desk. But part of that is those were guys who were qualified for those jobs. They understand the content at hand. We're in a different world. The number one. And I'm not talking about Kevin Warsh, I'm people in the administration. The number one qualification, as I said, was loyalty to Trump.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So if that's your number one skill set, I'm not even sure that you know what you're gonna push and pull and take from. We don't have the. Remember, Peter Navarro is super close to the president and the president's sons at this point in Trump 1.0. Gary Cohn and Steven Mnuchin wouldn't even let Peter Navarro work on their teams. They sent him to go work for Wilbur Ross and hope that Wilbur might be napping when he was at work that day. Now you've Got the likes of Navarro in the inner, inner circle. And so it's funny, many of these people, and remember, Peter Navarro was chosen. Jared Kushner found him doing an Amazon search looking for is there an economist or someone who covers the economy out there whose views mimic Trump's. And that's how they found Navarro.

[A]

And this is on tariffs in particular.

[B]

On tariffs in particular. And then you remember in Navarro's book, he had fake quotes from a person from a made up name, whose name was like a derivation of his name. It was Ron Varro. Yes, yes, right. But this is my point of like, this is who we're dealing with. So Kevin Warsh is a totally different caliber, a totally different quality. And the Fed does have clear separation. He knows. Kevin Warsh knows that the Fed's independence is a crucial part of American exceptionalism and the strength of our economy. It's the reason international investors want to invest their money here. At the same time, he would like to reimagine the Fed. And I'm guessing his hope is that his reimagining the Fed aligns somewhat with what Trump wants him to do and he can move forward. We'll see.

[A]

Do you think there will be a change if, as there is much prediction and obviously hope among the Democrats that they end up taking the House and possibly the Senate in November, does that mean that Trump officially enters his lame duck period? And for people like Kevin Walsh, it's actually easier to do the job you're supposed to do. Yes. That's why Trump will have less power.

[B]

This is my point. This is exactly what I think. Kevin Warsh was happy, was getting delayed. The sooner he's like, I'd love to start November 20th. Yes. It makes his run much easier. And the clock starts then. Listen, when we talk about Trump, when I even hear Trump's a lame duck, I can't think of that many things right now that Trump is focused on that are for the American people, that are for the country. Trump has very clearly put Trump Inc. First in almost every. Let me give a better example. There have been previous administrations where we have seen the government make direct investments in businesses. Right. I don't even see that as a huge issue. The issue is the constant grift. Right. In previous administrations, when they're coming into. And granted those were when we were in economic crisis, but you know, when it's TARP or when they're coming in to rescue auto companies, you were never saying, but is Don Jr getting in on the deal? That's the case now. That's so different and so unsettling, or should be unsettling because you don't know if the government is making these moves entirely to help the American people. I believe, like, yes. Should we be investing in rare earth minerals here? We should. We should not be completely dependent on China. I'd like to think that during COVID we learned our lesson, but the way in which we're going about it is what's unsettling.

[A]

Nerve wracking, Stephanie. Nerve wracking. And what are you hearing from your friends in the investment markets abroad, your friends in politics abroad, about how they are, in particular their economists are trying to negotiate and navigate the changes in America.

[B]

Listen. They are now navigating a world of everybody's in it for themselves. Like that's where we are. Right? We went from decades and decades of globalization. Right? And I'm gonna use this. Cause it's your natural resource and you're gonna use mine. We are now shifting to this. What's mine is mine. And that's really difficult to manage. And it doesn't necessarily. I don't know who comes out a winner, but it makes the whole world less safe and more expensive for all of us.

[A]

Okay, so can we now talk about the things that we were talking about when you came in? Which? Hair extensions. The market for hair extensions, by the way, is enormous.

[B]

Enormous.

[A]

I have. And we started this conversation because you came in, I said, oh, my God, you look fantastic. Yes. And then you pointed to your hair and you said you actually had some extensions in from a recent photo shoot.

[B]

I had to do a photo shoot because I have a book coming out next year.

[A]

Congratulations. What's it called?

[B]

It's most likely going to be called Mind you'd the new Rules for life, work and money.

[A]

The new rules, yes, very good stuff.

[B]

But the idea of mind your business, nobody else's. Stop scrolling. Live your life. Anyway, but the title is a work in progress. So I had to do this last week and I never had this done before. And they sewed this little bit of hair in my head, and it made me crazy. But while I was in my fit of crazy, all I kept thinking about is young, glamorous women. Okay? When I was 23 years old, okay. And I would roll into work on a Friday. Honestly, my goal was, let me make sure I don't have eyeliner from the night before still on my face when I look at these young women now. I don't. First of all, I don't know how they have the money to keep it Up. But I'm going to say something so inappropriate. They are the sexiest, most gorgeous bombshells you have ever seen. But how do they go home with somebody, right? If you are out and you are wearing full body Spanx, if you have got eyelashes on, if you've got this hair of. If you come with hair sewn into your head, how do you go home with a guy? Like, are you running to the bathroom, throwing out your Spanx, which probably cost $65, when he goes to run his hand through your hair, he gets stuck in a net. And then you peel your eyelashes off and your face of orange is left on its pillow. I as sexy and gorgeous and glamorous as I think these women are, and God knows they're far more beautiful than I ever was at that age. I just don't know how it works. Well, I think maybe I need to go home with somebody on the Tinder scene. A girl. Follow her.

[A]

Well, I was gonna say, I think they're not having sex, right? I think a lot of them are not having sex. I mean, Gen Z famously is having much less sex than even millennials who are having less sex than, I think, boomers.

[B]

Okay, well, I'm watching off campus and they're having a lot of sex on that show, television.

[A]

Television. I think people are sitting at home and netflixing and chilling and they're not having as much sex. I mean, just statistically they're really not. But maybe it's because they don't want to get naked with someone if it means that they actually have to unpeel everything and they look completely different.

[B]

But do you know what I mean? Like, I'm looking at these absolutely phenomenal glow ups. But then as I look and I'm telling you, getting this hair into my head, I'm like, what do you do when you're like, this is my moment, let's run my fingers through your hair. And then they get trapped. How does that work?

[A]

Or worse, they come out. Or worse, they come out, someone pulls a trunk of your hair out. So how do you get rid of these then? Because they look. I'm just going to say they look fantastic.

[B]

Thank you very much.

[A]

Mainly we have male guests on.

[B]

And so here I'm going to get them taken out in a few days because I can't live like this.

[A]

And what about the eyelashes? Because I've gone through.

[B]

They take them off.

[A]

Every day they take them off because I've gone through phases of having eyelash extensions. And then I was just like, I can't do this.

[B]

Eyelash extensions are the most delicious and deadly addiction one could ever have.

[A]

And they break your eyelashes.

[B]

They destroy your eyelashes. They destroy them. But the problem is. And getting them on is a torture beyond.

[A]

Well, what is it? It's an hour and a half of lying completely still while they delicately put each individual in your eye.

[B]

And it smells like formaldehyde.

[A]

Yeah. And every now and then it gets in your eye.

[B]

Correct. One might think like, oh, a Brazilian wax is a disaster. Oh, no. I take a Brazilian wax all day, every day and Sunday over eyelash extensions. But once you get them, they look so great. I know. This is great. They don't take any upkeep. There's no. Listen. You are that girl who goes home with a guy and you wake up the next morning with these beautiful eyelashes. I stopped getting them because of the addiction. And then you look terrible.

[A]

I know.

[B]

So I attempted this year to be the one to use Latisse and it turned out I was the 1 in 5American women who Latisse doesn't work for.

[A]

Latisse being the eyelash. You apply it every night. And your eyelashes go back.

[B]

You're completely looking at your male producer because you're like, he's googling Latisse and doesn't know what it is.

[A]

I'm trying to fill him in. While moving seamlessly on some Follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Because behind every headline is a bottom line. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings. There's a money side to every story. And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe [e-mail] Stephanie Rule, you're always such a joy to have into the studio. Tell us about your new show.

[B]

So I obviously, I'm obviously I love the 11th Hour. I love late night TV. As you can tell, I'm a little.

[A]

And the 11th Hour is your show on MSN now for those who don't watch television anymore.

[B]

My show is on at 11pm 11th hour. I love it. I inherited it from Brian Williams, who was a friend, a hero of mine in television. And I love it. I just knew it was about six months ago. I went to Rebecca Cutler, the CEO of Ms. Now, and I said, it's time for change. I think we could use cable news, could use the media, could use sort of a big comprehensive morning show that cover and it's called Money Power Politics. And it covers politics and culture and business, but business in a different way. As you know, like I come from investment banking. I used to work in business tv and I think that business news covers business for investors only.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

And so when we see business leaders, when we see, you know, so many CEOs and so do I, and when you sit next to them at dinner, they have so many incredible insights in terms of what's happening in the world, what's happening in the labor market, what's happening with the American consumer. And I think we very rarely hear it because when they're on television, when they do interviews, they are talking about their company, how their stock is performing and what their earnings are gonna look like this quarter.

[A]

Right. And you don't have a broader context of what they think is happening in the culture. And so many of these people often go on and end up running anyway for politics or different kinds of offices. So it's helpful to know who they are.

[B]

Think about the millions of Americans that are panic stricken because they don't know how AI is going to impact their lives. They don't know what their kids should study in school. Right. Just a few years ago, right. Your sons are a little older than Min, so it was like, well, they should study computer programming and now mine are going to college and it's, well, they should be studying, you know, philosophy and critical thinking. And so I believe that we should have a news program that we're really covering a lot of these things and other places that aren't covering hardcore politics or hardcore business are leaning out of hard news because it's exhausting and it's hard right now and it's treacherous. And I think there's lots of places that are kind of leaning into more lifestyle y things because I get it, you know, this covering this day in and day out is heavy. It's hard, it's off putting, but I think it's more important than ever.

[A]

Interesting, very interesting. Well, I can't wait for you to start. And it's going to start at what time? 9 o'? Clock?

[B]

9am 9 to 11. 9 to 11. Our first hour is really a big morning news show. And our second hour, which you're definitely joining, is a roundtable. It's a group chat with, for the most part, four experts just talking about all the news of the day with some long form interviews. And not every day, but we're going to have a live audience most likely once a week because more and more people are saying, especially legacy media, they feel disconnected from it. They think what the legacy media covers isn't what matters. To them. And so we're going to make a show, most likely it'll be once a week with an audience, a small audience that actually participates in the show, that gets to ask questions, that gets to answer questions. Rather than so many of us sitting in newsrooms talking to ourselves, what we think is the most important stuff, let's let the people tell us.

[A]

Okay, so you touched on people exhausted by news. I have to ask you about 60 Minutes and about the recent debacle at 60 Minutes and the firing of 60% of the correspondents. Anderson Cooper, just saying I'm going to spend more time with my family, the mess of it all. We heard that David Ellison, who's the CEO of Paramount, actually called one of the correspondents, Lesley Starle, on Sunday and told her, I'm committed to the independence of the show. Coming in over the head of his news is his own authority there, Bari Weiss, of course, now running CBS News. What's your understanding of this?

[B]

But we learned that after Scott Pelley did an interview with the New York Times, which I thought was bone chilling when he gave two. And these are his words, concrete examples of Bari Weiss trying to put her finger on the scale, saying, oh, those Minnesota protests, can you make the protesters look more violent?

[A]

Right? Can you make it look like the car is driving towards the policeman, Renee Goode's car driving towards the policeman?

[B]

I was watching that interview and my husband was in the room with me. And I can tell you, my husband's a finance guy, but if I said to him, Scott Pelley, he wouldn't know. He might not know who's. And he knows, he knows 60 minutes. He loves 60 minutes. He watches 60 minutes. But he, you know, he's not quick to say, like, how could they do this to Scott Pelley? He's a national. My husband doesn't know that. When he heard Scott Pelley saying that, his face went white as a ghost. You don't have to be a news junkie or a 60 minute super fan to panic over the idea that the free press is really under threat. And I spoke to Andy Lack, who worked at, started his career. I mean, he's a news legend. He started his career at CBS. He worked for 60 Minutes. I know him because I worked for him at Bloomberg and at NBC. And he said some really interesting stuff where he said, Bari Weiss, have at it at cbs. Right? It's ripe for change. You could be a generational talent that can improve the place. And he said, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, there's lots of changes to make. He said, you wanna make changes to the morning, you wanna make changes to the evening news, go for it. You have one entity that's the gold standard. That's the gold star. That, by the way, if you want to say, well, Stephen Colbert's business, whether it did or didn't, lost money. 60 Minutes doesn't. 60 Minutes isn't just the gold standard, it's the gold mine.

[A]

It's also on an up. Right. It had a 9% increase in viewers.

[B]

Correct. They're one of the only traditional shows that also figured out digital. And Andy had said, it's unfathomable why you do this and where for journalists, I think it's so upsetting. Scott Pelley. No, it wasn't. The next day, the executive producer of 60 Minutes was fired. The day after the Emmys, I went

[A]

to the Emmys with Tonya Simon.

[B]

Yes. I went to the Emmys because we were nominated. And I watched 60 Minutes get nominated and nominated and win and win and win, because it's one of the only entities left that has the budget and the expertise and the will to do that. Investigative journalism. And I think the 60 Minutes thing is so important because as excited as I am and open, and certainly my kids are to new media, one of the things that we forget so much of what independent media covers is investigative reporting. That's been done by other institutions.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

That's been done by the Washington Post. That's been done by NPR or ProPublica or the New York Times. And so as much as we hear people, I think it was Bill Maher the other night who was like, I don't think Scott Pelay's a national treasure or what, you know, he's just a correspondent. I think that we're not showing an appreciation for all that goes in to that hugely important type of journalism. The time, the expense, the expertise. And I think some of us who don't understand journalism necessarily chalk it up to, like, how is this different from something else? I invite you to watch 60 Minutes. It's different.

[A]

Why do you think they did it then? Why. Why single out 60 minutes? You made the point that there are many days of the week where they could be working on their breakfast show, which is number three against ABC and far behind. Similarly with their evening broadcast, which they have tinkered with by putting in a new anchor, though essentially, it's the same. Why do you think they focused on 60 Minutes?

[B]

It's almost unfathomable. I'd love to know what you think it's Almost unfathomable to me. Because truthfully, if you want to say this media is liberal, call Ms. Now. It's a progressive network. I don't see how 60 Minutes is. I don't. Do you?

[A]

No. I'm assuming it's something to do with the fact that Trump hates 60 Minutes because the show he, you know, CBS ended up paying him $15 million over it. But he argued, in fact, sued them for what, $15 billion, 10 or $15 billion, some fanciful figure, because he argued that they had edited and distorted what Kamala Harris was saying in an interview.

[B]

You know what I say to that? How many weeks ago was it? 6 weeks ago Donald Trump did a sit down interview with Norah o'. Donnell. And did they immediately, oh, no, maybe online they aired the whole thing.

[A]

But everything is edited. Television is edited.

[B]

Everything on television is edited. Listen, Donald Trump goes after all different targets. I guess I would just say this, this notion that 60 Minutes is super biased, even this notion of what bias is. Here's the thing, the truth is not bias. It's just that some people don't want to hear the truth because the truth is not always attractive for you. And I think that's what the case is for some people. And I think that Donald Trump often wants to shape a narrative that suits him that isn't true. Look at how he's talking about the war.

[A]

So if you're David Ellison and this is the first time that you've ever run a television network, it's not in your background. You probably just want to make movies. You've got a very wealthy father. He's David Ellison, you know, is the son of Larry Ellison, one of the richest men. Oracle. Right. You know, whatever. He's got 200, $300 billion at this point. If you're David Ellison, what are you saying to your father about the chaos that appears to be going around at cbs? This is bad publicity for the Ellisons.

[B]

So I think they have their. And I don't know David Ellison and I don't know Larry Ellson. I think that they have their eyes set on something so much bigger in terms of the movie studios, the control of media.

[A]

This is the deal with Warner Brothers.

[B]

The deal with Warner Brothers. I actually think that they think this is just noisy and small potatoes and an occupational hazard that they have to deal with in order to get the regulatory approval they want, want from this president. And when they ultimately get so much media control in terms of Warner Brothers and the big giant movie studios, I don't think that I can't imagine that these guys are big, giant consumers of news, because it wasn't that many months ago. I remember speaking to someone pretty close to the Ellison sort of in that world who was like, you know, at 70, you're obsessing over 60 minutes. Is it that important? Because I think they're not thinking about. I think 60 Minutes is enormous to us. I think it should be enormous to America. The free press is enormous to our democracy. I think they have their sights set on something so much bigger. And they know that Donald Trump has his hiccups and hookups. And if dismantling this pleases him and gets them their ultimate goals, I think in their mind, they're saying this works. I don't think they would have guessed it would have gotten this noisy. I don't think anyone would have predicted that someone of Scott Pelley's nature or background or reputation or reputation would have spoken out in the way that he did. And I don't think that he necessarily did it to put on a show. I think he did it because he was deeply frustrated and angry and had been part of this institution for 37 years. And I think he burst. I think they hadn't counted on that. I mean, I know. I mean, I know they've hired a very fancy, big New York outside communications firm to help them manage this. Not just their own internal team.

[A]

CBS has. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Well, if you're David Ellison and you've hired Bari Weiss, who has no television experience, and she has no television news

[B]

experience, but neither does he.

[A]

Right. Which is why he thought it would be fine to hire someone. I mean, it's so interesting to not have any experience about something and then hire someone else who doesn't have any

[B]

experience, because you don't necessarily see the value in it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I'm going to give you a good example.

[A]

Yeah. And I was just going to say, you don't know what good looks like if you have no experience. You don't know what people with experience look like. You just assume it's fine for everybody to have no experience. And also, we're living at a time right now where experience is. It's almost disqualifying. I mean, look at the people that are sort of causing ructions in politics. You've got Graham Platner up in Maine. Total outsider. Right. Not part of the establishment. Similarly, with Donald Trump. People, like, change over experience.

[B]

Yes. But I think there is a beautiful middle ground that we're not hitting on. You're right. It's time for change. You know, when you work in institutions or organizations. I remember when I first came to NBC feeling, you know, I came from Bloomberg, which was really small and really scrappy. So at Bloomberg, like if you've got an interesting guest in the building, you're gonna put them on TV, you're gonna put them on radio, you're gonna do 17 interviews with them because you're not gonna get them again. And I remember when I first showed up to NBC and like Today show would have these like unbelievable guests like day in and day out. And I was like so wide eyed, like, oh my gosh, like while they're here, are you doing seven other interviews with them? And they were sort of like, no, it's not the way it's done here because it's this, you know, they're the biggest and the best organization and why would they. And now every sort of massive institution has been rocked of saying, while they're in the building, you better be getting a digital interview, you better be getting social. So everyone's changed. So there is a need and a huge appetite for outsiders to shake it up. But outsiders with expertise and the best of intentions. And by the way, Bari Weiss has the ability to hire a ton of great experts. Okay, look at Bloomberg. Bloomberg, that's where I talk about Bloomberg, because that's where I came from. Bloomberg sold cells. Their main business are terminals. It's a technology company specifically for finance. Mike Bloomberg decided to build a media company. And it's specific. It's a niche business for, you know, financial news, but now political news and other news. I mean, he has what, 3,5000 journalists around the world? But what is Mike Bloomberg known for, both as a CEO and a mayor? When he doesn't know about something, he pays up and he hires experts. And it's one of the things he did best when he was mayor of New York City. He says, who's the best at this? Let me come in. Now that takes the ability to, you have to remove your ego and say, I don't know about this, but I want to bring in the best people who can. And so in the case of cbs, David Ellison doesn't have any TV experience. And then he brings in someone who doesn't have any TV experience. And you keep thinking, when are you going to bring in the expert? And the funny thing is they're out there and there's an opportunity to. And still, like, I'm not saying it won't work out for Barry. I mean, listen, financially it's already worked

[A]

out for Bari Weiss, because David Ellison bought her newsletter, the Free Press, which she was very good at doing. She created it from nothing. Very good. But it's a very different discipline to producing television. And then she didn't bring in anybody with television experience for 60 minutes. So you've got the actual editor of the program, Nick Bilton, then you've got Bari Weiss, who's overseeing it. Then you've got David Allison overseeing it. Her. None of them have got experience in television news.

[B]

And it's very specific. Right. I don't have the skill set. Right. I would love to work at 60 Minutes one day. I would love to learn that skill to do that. I don't have it. Right. You've worked in media for years and years. You don't have the 60 Minutes experience.

[A]

No, of course not.

[B]

It's very unique.

[A]

It's a little bit like a dentist saying, I went to medical school. Why don't I just operate on your heart? I mean, it's not the same discipline. It's sort of the same discipline.

[B]

It's the same universe. Yeah, the same universe. And you know the thing that gets you when people say, I don't know how anybody's still working there. I don't know why they didn't all walk out. Like, I think that's pretty rich when people say that. First of all, the people who are there are still part. And we heard. I mean, they're going to try and stay and make this survive. And if Leslie Stahl does maintain her independence, maybe she's gonna pull this out of the depths. And it's. Listen, for many, many years, it was a dream job to work there. And I think people still want to believe they can pull it out. And so we'll see what happens. I mean, maybe Barry will realize the era of her ways. Right. Like, Nick Bilton has tried, it seems like, to kind of come back from this somewhat. So I think, like, we don't know what's to come. But I just think beyond 60 Minutes, look what the FCC is doing. Right. Look what Brendan Carr is doing. Journalism. The free press is essential for a functioning democracy.

[A]

Well, and if I were Donald Trump and I was looking at all the fuss around 60 minutes, I'd immediately start complaining about what I thought they had in line for me in the fall. I mean, it now becomes what they've inadvertently done, I think, is make it look much weaker. I mean, if you're Donald Trump, you now have a fresh target to go after. You've already gone after it once, and they gave you a $15 million payday. Why wouldn't you go after it again? And Nick Bolton has now been said to people, of course we're gonna give you editorial independence. Super important. David Ellison has apparently guaranteed that to Lesley Starr. But if you're as Machiavellian as I think Donald Trump is, you have a new target in September.

[B]

But then learn your lesson, boys and girls. This is who he is. Now, I would say in Trump's second term, when he immediately started suing everyone, I thought, this is really gonna create a chilling effect. Like you're going to see journalism that he doesn't like. Weakened people will soften their voices. That hasn't happened. I mean, look at the Wall Street Journal editorial page, like guns a blazing since Liberation Day.

[A]

And look at the Wall Street Journal news pages with the birthday letters.

[B]

Mm, that's the perfect example. Like, they knew they were going to be sued. Rupert Murdoch knew exactly what was going to happen and did it anyway. I mean, I would just say every day I'm blown away, especially as it relates to the grift of journalists just leaning in and leaning in. And this is after we've seen organizations lose funding from the government. They're still continuing to forge on. And I think that's inspiring.

[A]

What a great note to end on. Stephanie Ruhl. Inspiring. You're inspiring. It's great to have you in here and I'm very excited for your new show. When does it start?

[B]

Monday, 9am Money Power Politics with yours truly.

[A]

Money power politics. Monday, 9am Mississippi now with Stephanie Rule with her fabulous hair, fabulous lashes. Thank you. Are you going to have a good makeup artist on stand? I hope so, I hope so.

[B]

Maybe even a spray tan. I am from New Jersey.

[A]

Good luck with it.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I love talking to Stephanie Rule. She's so full of energy and she's just bouncing. Someone once described her to me as the only anchor you feel wants to actually get out of her chair and crawl at the viewer across the table. And that's what it feels like when you interview her. So full of energy. And I love her observations about Scott Bessant and Howard Lutnig and whether or not Kevin Wash will be able to survive at the Fed without becoming equally so publicly at least, sycophantic. Anyway, if you have been, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to press your subscription button. Big thanks to our producer production team, Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many bebeast tier members now there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.

[B]

Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes. Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different. Locked in, loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it like it belongs to them. So when your brand shows up on Spotify, that's who you're talking to. And you're right next to artists like me, Lizzo. So are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify advertising, you're among fans.