Why Trump’s Desperate Ploy to Be Serious Is a Sham

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Beast Podcast – Why Trump’s Desperate Ploy to Be Serious Is a Sham

Host: Joanna Coles (The Daily Beast)
Date: August 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the recent attempts by Donald Trump to project seriousness and presidential gravitas—most notably his staged trip to Camp David—against a backdrop of growing desperation and declining approval. Joanna Coles and her co-host (Michael) dissect Trump’s performative efforts, the sycophancy of those around him, his inability to escape the television spotlight, the ongoing dysfunctions within his administration, and the corrosive loyalty tests that define his inner circle. They also dive into cases that symbolize the absurdity of Trump-era governance, and touch on broader questions around power, money, dignity, and legacy in the twilight of Trump’s presidency.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump at Camp David: An Attempt to ‘Be Presidential’

• Trump’s Disdain for Camp David: Trump is known to despise Camp David, associating it with uncomfortable accommodations and the traditions of previous presidents. The fact that he went suggests a behind-the-scenes attempt to change the political narrative and portray himself as a “serious” president.
  • “He is trying to evoke in the middle of a war that he can't get out of and that he can't solve: I am a serious president, a serious guy trying to solve this. Now, of course, then he goes to Camp David and it doesn't appear to be serious at all. It's just more of the Trump show...” — Michael (05:01)
• Performative Leadership: Trump brought cameras and a cadre of affirmation-giving aides (notably Natalie Harp), eschewing genuine reflection for staged events.
• Superficial Details: Trump’s focus is more on the sheets and accommodations than leadership: “He won't spend time on the details of going to war, but on bedding at a hotel, he comes alive.” — Michael (08:37)
• Controlled Environment: Trump’s discomfort in rustic, unmanicured settings—contrasted with his preference for his own hotels and golf courses—further signals that the Camp David trip was theater, not substance.

Notable Quote

• “A president goes to be by himself or with his intimates and think quiet time. All of which Trump does not have, does not want, cannot endure.” — Michael (01:25, 13:54 repeat)

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2. Cabinet Sycophancy: A Game of Flattery

• Quiz Segment: Joanna runs through a “Who said it?” game highlighting the over-the-top praise Trump’s cabinet offers him, underscoring the transactional, performative nature of their support.
  • “Future historians will rank this president with America's greatest leaders.” — Pete (11:20)
  • “Foreign leaders take him seriously because they know he'll actually do what he says.” — Attributed to Marco Rubio (11:04)
• Loyalty as Show: Michael emphasizes that cabinet members and close advisors don’t actually believe in Trump; their loyalty is about self-preservation and ambition, not conviction.
  • “None of these people around Trump believe in Trump. None of these people subscribe to Trump. Their loyalty is a pretense. It's a show.” — Michael (17:09)

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3. War, Failure, and Staged Seriousness

• Stuck and “Losing” the War: Trump is presented as unable to achieve his original war aims and is simply “stuck” in a losing situation.
  • “We should go beyond that he's just stuck here to the fact that he is losing, that he's going to have to come to...He has done all that he can possibly do, short of invasion…and he has realized none, not one, of the goals this war started out with.” — Michael (14:34)

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4. Trump’s Staffing and Perpetual Betrayal

• Cycle of Betrayal: Discourse on Todd Blanche, Trump’s current acting Attorney General, reflects the perpetual pattern: loyalty is always eventually punished.
  • “So Todd Blanche is screwed, and he is screwed. Like everybody is ultimately screwed in the world of working for Donald Trump…” — Michael (24:42)
• Historical Precedent: The downfall of Trump officials (Jeff Sessions, Bill Barr, Rex Tillerson, Rance Priebus) is recounted to reinforce the toxic pattern.
  • “I think in almost every instance of anyone who has worked for Trump…Their time with Trump came a cropper. And it also was bad for almost all of their careers.”— Michael (30:21)
• Aspirations and Disappointments: Hosts discuss the emotional and career toll this dynamic takes, including the internal rationalizations of those who keep working for Trump.

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5. The Money Grift – Corporate Extortion for Influence

• Megan O’Rourke’s Role: The emergence of Megan O’Rourke, dubbed one of Trump’s “work wives,” as a chief fundraiser underscores the administration’s transactional approach to power.
• Corporate Shakedowns: Corporations are pressured for donations, often under veiled threats of regulatory or legislative consequences. Companies pay for access and favors.
  • “If you don't give me money, that will cost you in other ways…This is what is being said to rich people and to corporations.” — Michael (34:27)
• Raising Money for a Mar-A-Lago “White House after the White House”: Trump is focused on ensuring he and his circle will remain influential after leaving office, and will be able to run a “parallel administration.”

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6. Declining Power but Persistent Influence

• Diminishing Base: Trump’s approval ratings are in freefall except with his “central evangelical Trump base,” which remains loyal and provides leverage even after leaving office.
• Republican Party Capture: Future Republican leaders will have to reckon with Trump; his base and fundraising acumen give him lasting power, even if out of office.
  • "His real power is that he has this power with a Republican base." — Michael (41:32, 42:48)

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7. Absurdities and Symbolic Incidents

• James Comey’s “8647” Seashell Post: The Trump administration’s prosecution of Comey for allegedly threatening Trump with a coded seashell arrangement leads to a bizarre attempt to involve mobster Sammy “The Bull” Gravano as an expert witness.
  • "Sammy the Bull Gravano said no respectable mafioso would ever say 86. So Sammy the Bull Gravano was not helpful to the Trump case at all. But everybody does get to talk about Sammy the Bull Gravano, which is a pleasure in itself.” — Michael (46:26)
• Olympian Kayaker Case: Davy Hearn, an Olympian, is exonerated after being falsely accused of damaging the Reflecting Pool—another example of Trump-world bureaucratic absurdity and misdirected energy.

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8. Aging Politicians and the Limits of Power

• Mitch McConnell’s Disappearance: Public frustration is expressed over McConnell’s lengthy absence and lack of transparency, raising issues about age, leadership, and accountability in the Senate.
• Aging in Office: Brief comparison with Bernie Sanders, who—even at 84—remains vigorous, highlighting the mixed fortunes of aging political leaders.

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9. Odds & Ends: Trump’s Health, GLP-1 Rumors, and Listener Limericks

• Trump’s Weight and Health: Speculation about whether Trump has secretly used weight-loss drugs (GLP-1s) is recounted, fueled by Mar-A-Lago gossip.
• Lighthearted Listener Limerick: Ends with a poem celebrating the podcast, acknowledging the community’s engagement and the hosts’ “inside Trump’s head” angle.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Flattery and Loyalty:
  “Everybody knows. You cannot but know who Donald Trump is. Now, on some level, you accept that...he won the election. That's democracy. And I work for him and I hope to better myself by working for him. But in private, everybody knows.” — Michael (19:13)

• On Trump’s Style:
  “He's a very, let's say, controlled environment kind of guy.” — Michael (09:58)

• On the Endless Drama:
  “We are Olympians of the podcasting world. Certainly for endurance, anyway, where we go three times a week spelunking into Trump's head.” — Joanna (04:21)

• On Absurd Prosecutions:
  “Of course this is any more preposterous than 86, 47. It's a whole series of these kinds of things that strain not only logic and credulity…” — Michael (51:48)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:01] Discussion of Trump’s performative Camp David visit—"He is trying to evoke…serious president…"
• [11:04]–[12:17] Joanna quizzes Michael on sycophantic cabinet remarks.
• [14:34] Analysis of Trump ‘losing the war’ and failing at policy goals.
• [17:09] Michael’s breakdown of the “pretense” of loyalty around Trump.
• [24:42] How Todd Blanche, like so many before him, is "ultimately screwed" by Trump.
• [34:27–38:26] The discussion on Trump’s fundraising, the corporate money machine, and post-presidency planning.
• [41:32–43:17] Persistence of Trump’s power—approval numbers, base loyalty, and lasting influence.
• [46:26] The farcical attempt to use Sammy the Bull Gravano as a prosecution witness against Comey.
• [51:48] On the absurdity of recent high-profile, politicized prosecutions.
• [53:26–54:48] Empathetic but frank discussion on Mitch McConnell’s absence and the realities of aging in politics.
• [57:19] Rumors about Trump and GLP-1 weight-loss medication.
• [58:34] Fun listener poetry—podcast celebrates itself.

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Summary Takeaways

Trump’s effort to don the mantle of seriousness—from Camp David photo-ops to choreographed cabinet meetings—is consistently undermined by his own aversions, habits, and fundamental unseriousness. His administration continues to operate on a cycle of flattery, threatened loyalty, and transactional exchanges of influence for cash. The sycophancy of aides, the brittle bonds among the power players, and the comically absurd cases pursued by the administration all point to a regime more concerned with appearance and survival than substance or legacy. Meanwhile, Trump’s lasting hold over the Republican base, even as his overall approval tumbles, ensures that his power will echo long after this desperate charade.

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For listeners and readers, this episode unpacks the drama, dysfunction, and backstage machinations of Trump’s late-stage administration—with plenty of sharp banter and wry observation.

Transcript

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[A]

Tennessee 2012 Trump hates Camp David. Hates it. So the fact that he is at Camp David now, what it means, among the other screwball things that would only be associated with Trump is that he's trying to be presidential. But the fact that he is doing it at Camp David is a kind of sign of some, some desperation. We got to change the script. We got to change the scene. A president goes to be by himself or with his intimates and think quiet time. All of which Trump does not have, does not want, cannot endure.

[B]

Michael, Joanna, once again, once again, you could sound a bit more excited. You could. Come on. We've got a smorgasbord today. A summer smorgasbord of subject matter. We've got who was the most obsequious at Camp David. We've got Todd Blanche. Does it make any difference if he's Confused.

[A]

Well, you have to match each of these things with a summer vegetable. Who's the corn? Who's the corn? Who's the tomatoes? Who's the peppers?

[B]

And what about zucchini? Isn't zucchini a zucchini?

[A]

Too much zucchini, I feel like. Endless. Endless zucchini.

[B]

Endless zucchini, yeah. Which always to me seems slightly tasteless, the zucchini there. I've put my vegetable preference online out there, and it's not zucchini. We've also got Sammy the Bull. Sammy the Bull. There's no way Sammy the Bull is a vegetable. He's a summer sausage, isn't he?

[A]

Sammy the Bull Gravana. One of my favorite figures of all time.

[B]

Such a smorgasbord we have for people today. Just reminding you we are independent media. Please subscribe to the Daily Beast if you haven't done yet. We've had a remarkable uptick in subscriptions in the last week, possibly matching Trump's downward tick with almost everything, including the kayaker, which we'll come to, too. The Olympian kayaker who was boldly arrested. The accusations against him were that he seemed to have single handedly ripped the new rubber bottom of the reflecting pool. And of course, it turns out he did no such thing anyway.

[A]

Not to mention, who knew kayaking was an Olympic sport?

[B]

Exactly. Who knew? Although I did watch some videos of him, actually, that lasted from whenever he was in the Olympics, I think in the 80s, and it was pretty impressive. I would never be able to do anything like that, and I suspect you wouldn't either.

[A]

Well, of course we wouldn't.

[B]

Right.

[A]

If we would. If we could do something like that, we would not be sitting here.

[B]

But instead, we are Olympians. Yeah, we're Olympians of the podcasting world. Certainly for endurance, anyway, where we go three times a week spelunking into Trump's head. Okay, Michael, I thought we would start with a quiz this morning, which I know you don't like quizzes, but have you.

[A]

Have you done what you're supposed to do and asked people to subscribe? Did we do this?

[B]

Yes, I just asked people to subscribe.

[A]

That was a white noise. That was a white noise that I wasn't listening to. Okay, great.

[B]

It was definitely a white noise subscription.

[A]

Ask Camp David.

[B]

Camp David. Where they went for their corporate off site. Trump sat in the middle. I'm going to.

[A]

Before you get there, let me just set the stage, because this is odd, because Trump hates Camp David. Hates it. Every time that he went there in the first administration. He would come back in a rage, in a rage against the accommodations, in a rage against the past presidents who had made this de rigueur that they had to go to Camp David. So the fact that he is at Camp David now actually means, probably means something. And what it means, among the other screwball things that would only be associated with Trump, is that he's trying to be presidential. He is trying to evoke in the middle of a war that he can't get out of and that he can't solve. I am a serious president, a serious guy trying to solve this. Now, of course, then he goes to Camp David and it doesn't appear to be serious at all. It's just more of the Trump show, which he cannot not do. But the fact that he is doing it at Camp David David is a kind of sign of some desperation. We gotta change the script. We gotta change the scene.

[B]

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[A]

No, no, I mean, this is very. It's Always top of mind with him. Where he spends the night in whose sheets is he touching? I swear, this is a thing that aides have to talk about. The sheets. We bring in the sheets. What kind of sheets do they have? This is a big issue for Donald Trump.

[B]

Well, because presumably bedding. Bedding. Well, because he wants some kind of possibly easy to wash bedding. Because we know he smears his snacks all over. All over the sheets. And he wants.

[A]

Also, he's a hotel guy. I mean, these are. These are the details that actually he'll spend time on. He won't spend time on the details of going to war, but on bedding at a hotel, he comes alive.

[B]

Okay. And probably the cruet and all the other accompanying things at Camp David probably aren't the same as the Trump details of Bedminster and the Trump Doral and all his.

[A]

Yeah, no. I can't think of anything that would be in greater stylistic and aesthetic contrast than Camp David and the Trump aesthetic.

[B]

Well, and also, it's very clear he doesn't like the woods. I mean, if you think of where he spends his time in nature, it's all incredibly manicured. And it's golf courses. Right. I realize we need to send you an inside Trump's head mug for Saturday podcast. Cause you've got a blank mug there. But he doesn't like the woods. Right. He's probably to.

[A]

How come I haven't got one? We're on our about 700th podcast.

[B]

I know, we'll send you one. I'm like, note to Ryan. Ryan, can we send Michael an inside Trump's head? Or I'll bring you one out there when I next come. But it's true. He doesn't like trees very much, I don't think. Does he? I suspect the only greenery he likes is sort of manicured greenery.

[A]

He's a very, let's say, controlled environment kind of guy.

[B]

Okay. Controlled environment. Well, very good point. That leads us neatly to our quiz, because he's surrounded by his cabinet ministers, all apart from Howard Lutnick, who is missing for his daughter's graduation from Mount Sinai. Casey Lutnick. Congrats to Casey.

[A]

We call them cabinet secretaries.

[B]

Okay, what should I call them?

[A]

Ministers.

[B]

Ministers.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Cabinet secretaries. You're right.

[A]

You can take the girl out of the United Kingdom, but not the United Kingdom out of the girl.

[B]

I thought you were going to say you can take the girl out of Downing street, but not Downing street. Out of the girl. Anyway. Okay, I've got a. Who said it? I'm going to read you four statements, each one more ingratiating than the last. And I would like you to tell me who you think was the author of this particular sentence. Foreign leaders take him seriously because they know he'll actually do what he says.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Actually, not Pete. That was Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State.

[A]

One or the other. Yes.

[B]

Okay. Future historians will rank this president with America's greatest leaders.

[A]

Rfk.

[B]

Interestingly not, but it could have been rfk. That was Pete. That was Pete. Okay. This one is a bit easier. The economy is succeeding because of his leadership and vision.

[A]

I don't know. It's. Well, it's not. L. I would have said Lutnik, but he's not there.

[B]

Who's the other one? The gay one?

[A]

Who is the gay one? I don't even know.

[B]

You're blanking. Scott Besant. Scott Besant.

[A]

Besant, yes. He's so not memorable in so many ways.

[B]

He's strangely. He's strangely transparent, actually. Isn't it something to do with his hair? Okay, now you are going to get this one. I think I've known Camp David since childhood, but this president's accessibility is remarkable.

[A]

You know, he always gets that in that I was there. I was virtually. He's virtually made himself a member of the Kennedy administration.

[B]

RFK Jr RFK, the anti vaccine who was pressed by Trump on what was happening to his autism and vaccines research. Because do you remember he said last year, shortly after he was put into the Health and Human Services job, that he was going to really poke at the link between vaccines and autism.

[A]

And of course, yeah, no, no, he is the anti vax guy who was told to be less anti vax and now Trump has said be more anti V. He's that old brain worm, that old brainworm.

[B]

Well, last year he said he was going to come out with definitive research by last September. A year on or 11 months on, we still don't have an answer from him, despite the fact that the scientific community has said there is no link between autism and vaccines. Did you get any of that?

[A]

I did. I heard it all. My headphones are on backwards and I wasn't hearing you up until that point. Now you're crystal clear.

[B]

Oh, maybe that's why you didn't hear me call for people to subscribe. So very good point about him trying to look presidential at Camp David. Did anything come out of the cabinet meeting other than them just prostrating themselves for.

[A]

No. And why would. Here's the other interesting thing. Camp David is supposed to be the place where it's a presidential retreat. A president goes to be by himself or with his intimates and think quiet time. All of which Trump does not have, does not want, cannot endure. So he goes to Camp David and he brings the television cameras with him

[B]

because he doesn't want any time on his own, and he doesn't have any intimates, apart from Natalie Harp, who's trotting around giving him positive affirmations.

[A]

Extraordinary. I mean, and also. Let's go. This is theoretically about the war. The war that he is stuck in, the war that he is losing. I mean, I think that this is. We should go beyond that. He's just stuck here to the fact that he is losing, that he's going to have to come to. He is at the end. He has done all that he can possibly do, short of invasion, which he is not going to do, and he has realized none. Not one of the goals this war started out with.

[B]

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[A]

No, but he hasn't done that. That's actually a totally misunderstanding. And don't let's not give him that credit. He has ended the lives of some of the people who ran the government, only for it to become even more. The same government with the same values and the same intentions, to become more intellig and probably stronger than it was before.

[B]

Okay, fair distinction. Totally. Totally. But I have a question for you. What do you think Marco Rubio and Pete Hegseth say when they get home and their wives go? Mrs. Rubio goes, hey, honey, how was it? How Was it at Camp David?

[A]

I know what they say.

[B]

What do they say?

[A]

They say, fucking Trump. I mean, there again. And I think that this is really important to understand. None of these people around Trump believe in Trump. None of these people subscribe to Trump. Their loyalty is a pretense. It's a show. Now, they understand they have to do this, that that's the nature of the nature of the job. But they are all, to greater and lesser extent, clear eyed about what Trump is, everybody around him. This is true. You can't not be. What you see is so outside. Of the normal human experience that you have to at some point step back from that. And they step back. They go home at night. Yes. And they acknowledge this. And then various of these people are the same people who call me or they call other reporters or they call other confidants and say, as almost as countless discussions have begun with me, when I pick up the phone and is, you won't believe it. And then they go through and then they tell you the most preposterous things that he has said or demanded or staged.

[B]

So when Pete Hegseth goes home and says, I really need a drink, and his wife number three says, no, no, we've given up drinking. Don't forget you promised those senators you were never gonna drink on the job. Let's go for a walk, darling. Or why don't you go and do 50 pull ups to work out your energy. Pete Hegseth believes that Trump, he doesn't believe in him at all. He's just there because he's trying to figure out the next move for Pete Hegseth.

[A]

Exactly. Let's pause a moment because I think people have trouble understanding that, and I think they probably have trouble understanding that, partly because Pete Hegseth in public is so associated with Trump that he must that he blends at some point. And again, I mean, I've tried to write four books about this very syndrome. It's not the case. Everybody knows. You cannot but know who Donald Trump is. Now, on some level, you accept that. Well, you know, he's the president. I mean, he won the election. That's democracy. And I work for him and I hope to better myself by working for him. But in private, everybody knows.

[B]

Everybody knows. So, Michael, what's inside Todd Blanche's head, do you think? This week a failure to get confirmed Donald Trump saying that he'd rather keep the options of the $1.8 billion slush fund open rather than insist on having to Blanche confirmed as Attorney General. Is Todd Blanche Sitting there with the specter of Jeff Sessions in the background. A man who gave up his political career as a senator. He'd been a senator for a long time in Alabama and had basically disappeared after I had a terrible time as Attorney general, obviously thought it was going to be a stepping stone, and Trump turned on him.

[A]

Well, I think Todd Blanch is rationalizing it in a somewhat different way than Jeff Sessions. I mean, remember Todd Blanche, prior to Donald Trump was an inauspicious white collar criminal lawyer and worked in a firm that didn't really value that all that much. A big white collar firm, I mean, a big corporate firm. And so Donald Trump became his way out. He would improve his position. And arguably he probably has. I mean, I don't know, you could probably argue that both ways. And I'm sure he argues that it has improved his professional standing. The promise, though, was that he was going to be the Attorney General. And throughout the. When I covered, and I covered Blanche closely during the 2024 campaign, in my book, all or nothing, I mean, he's one of the prominent characters. And he was very clearly told, if you stayed with. And Blanche was Trump's personal attorney in his four criminal indictments, and he had to put up with, with Trump, that was not easy. You know, Trump, that was months and months and months of Trump screaming at him, belittling him, mocking him. And everyone said, yes, but if you can, if you can get through this, you will be the Attorney General. Now, in fact, Trump was elected and he didn't become the Attorney general, he became the number two. But again, was told, if you show your loyalty, you will really eventually be the Attorney General. Now, showing his loyalty, among other things, involved looking away when Trump wanted to dictate this settlement, the government that he controlled settled with Trump to create this 1.8 million billion slush fund and also to give Trump immunity on his taxes. So he had to look away. And then he's held to account. So when he is nominated to be the Attorney General, he goes before Congress and key Republican senators say, hey, what about this? Now, the interesting thing is they don't ask for much. Effectively, what they're asking for is Todd Blanche to put in writing that this immunity deal for Trump on his taxes applies to only things in the past, not things in the future. So you would think that's a small compromise. And from Trump's point of view, he gets his Attorney General, he's not going to be embarrassed by not getting his confirmation. And also that he owes this to Todd Blanche. But Trump says, no, I'm not going to agree to that. I want my immunity in all shapes and sizes, now and forever. And if that means I don't get my Attorney general, if that means I'm going to be embarrassed, if that means Todd Blanche's funeral, a funeral, Todd Blanche's. Yes. Future is compromise. I don't care. So Todd Blanche is screwed, and he is screwed. Like everybody is ultimately screwed in the world of working for Donald Trump, if

[B]

a chef came out and said, I've never actually cooked this before, but how hard can it be? You'd probably head to another restaurant. Because when something really matters, experience isn't a bonus. It's the whole point. That's why so many people turn to Morgan and Morgan, making it America's largest injury law firm. Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting for the people for over 35 years. With over $30 billion recovered for their clients. Morgan and Morgan knows a thing or two about fighting to get you the compensation you deserve. Hiring Morgan and Morgan is like hiring an army to go into battle. They've got more than 1,000 lawyers and 100 offices nationwide. If you're injured by someone else's negligence, you deserve to be paid. Not all law firms are the same. Hire the wrong one and you may even be beat before you even start to see if you have a case you can go to for the people. So, Michael, is Todd Blanche sitting with Mrs. Blanche at home, and are they rocking back and forth going, I hope this was worth it? Are they anxious about potential recrimination by Democrats if the Democrats win the House? Is this one of those forks in the road for Todd Blanche that looked like the road was going one way, but now, actually, thanks to John Cornyn and Thom Tillis, he may not get confirmed. It may get pushed back to January. Who knows what will happen in the Senate by then, especially with the missing Mitch McConnell, who we'll come onto in a moment. I wonder for Todd Blanche, how stressful this is.

[A]

Well, it's incredibly stressful. I mean, first thing, any appearance before Congress is stressful. And the fact that whether you are confirmed or not confirmed is a major deal. Todd Blanch gets to enter history as an Attorney General, Attorney General of the United States of America or not. So this is a key moment in his career. Now, what will happen, practically speaking, is that he will not be confirmed, and then he will continue as the acting Attorney General. And I guess in his own mind, in his family's mind, that will be somewhat rationalized and they will try not to deal with the fact that he didn't get what he wanted. Now, many of us in our careers, all of us in our careers don't get what we necessarily want or believe we should have. And we, we deal with it. But, you know, this is one of those things of coming very, very close to the brass ring and then not getting it and not getting it. And this is the interesting thing. Does he get, does he come to terms with the fact that Donald Trump

[B]

screwed him and does he want to carry on working for him? Because hard to work for someone who, even though you know that in theory, until it's happened to you in practice, it feels very different. I know that a lot of people are going to be thinking, well, what didn't Michael get that he wanted the way you said that made what job? Didn't you get that you would have

[A]

liked to be the President of the United States? Of course.

[B]

Did you ever dream of that when you were younger?

[A]

Oh, of course, of course. No. But, you know, there are things, you know, when you're a writer. I mean, the nature of being a writer is kind of constant failure. Not achieving what you wanted to achieve, not being able to. Not being able to write a good book as you wanted to write, not getting the New York Times to give you as good a review as you might have hoped and believed you deserved. You never get that. Except. Except suddenly you do.

[B]

And then I was going to say that's not true. Your last book got fantastic.

[A]

No, no. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes just by you feel, just by the sheer persevering. And that is actually true. And that's gonna be what Todd Blanche feels. I just continue to go on. I power through just what is ultimately the thing that gets you what you want. Just continuing to show up. If you're willing to tolerate all manner of humiliation, often, ultimately, the world is yours, I suppose.

[B]

But I do think about Jeff Sessions, who has played so brilliantly, I want to say, by Melissa McCarthy, and I'm probably wrong on SNL, but of course, who had to recruit, accuse himself during the Russia investigation because it turned out he'd had meetings with the Russian ambassador during the campaign, the 2016 campaign, which he'd never bothered to tell anybody about. And once he did that, Trump never let up. And he lasted, I think, what, two years as Attorney general?

[A]

Well, don't limit it to him. I think in almost every instance of anyone who has worked for Trump, certainly in the first administration, Their time with Trump came a cropper. And it also was bad for almost all of their careers. Very few people I know from the first administration have prospered after that.

[B]

Right. Well, I was only thinking of Jeff Sessions because he was the Attorney General, and also because he wanted his Senate seat in Alabama back after he was AG and Trump campaigned against him and Tommy Tuberville got the job instead. And now, you know, age 79, when Jeff Sessions would have fitted right into the Senate, he'd be the perfect age to sit gracefully in that nursing home in Washington. He's basically disappeared from view. And, you know, someone I. I talked to who knew him said he had a lot of regrets, that actually that was the decision he shouldn't have made. If he just stayed quietly in the Senate, he would have been much happier.

[A]

Yeah, completely. But I'm. I'm sure Pam Bondi isn't. Isn't happy at this. At this point. What's his name?

[B]

His name's Bill Barr.

[A]

Bill Barr is, you know, I mean, has basically turned against Trump. I mean, everybody has an experience which is negative in some way. In some way, and often extremely negative. They're humiliated. They're publicly fired. You remember Rance Priebus, the first Chief of staff? Gets a text on the tarmac. He's standing there waiting to get on the plane. Gets a text. It's not even from Trump himself. It's actually just a news report. Reince Priebus is finished.

[B]

Oh, do you remember?

[A]

What does he do?

[B]

He's left standing there, probably unable to get on the plane. And do you remember Rex Tillerson, who apparently learned he'd been fired while he was sitting on the toilet? I mean, former CEO of Exxon who gave up the job to go and do that.

[A]

And one. One after the other, Nobody. I mean, actually, in my view of the first administration, it really was only Jared Kushner who kind of came out arguably ahead of the game.

[B]

Well, I wonder if he will put in, because another possible humiliation for Todd Blanche would be if Trump were to just decide to give up on him and bring in another Attorney general.

[A]

Yeah, no, always quite possible. Although I have a feeling that from Trump's point of view, Blanche does what he wants. He's a loyal guy. So it doesn't matter to Trump if he's the Attorney General or the acting Attorney General.

[B]

Okay, so another person that hadn't been on my radar this week, but I suspect has been on your radar, but suddenly came under the spotlight of the Wall Street Journal this week is a woman called Megan o', Rourke, who turns out to be another of Trump's work Wives who hustles money for Trump from companies. I know you read this story because we discussed it. Who is Megan o', Rourke? Exactly?

[A]

I mean, she's from the kind of Florida political mafia connected to Susie Wiles. And so she's a Susie Wiles person who was brought in to do exactly what she's doing. And there have been a set of these people throughout the Trump world, but she's particularly successful. And there's a particular focus now on her job, which is to bring in money.

[B]

And this is campaign money, right? This is money for Trump's various properties.

[A]

This is all kinds of things. And it is. It is essentially. So we're at this moment, and it's a moment that works for both sides of this equation. Trump is looking at this and saying, this is the moment because of the leverage that I have as President of the United States, in which I can bring in as much money as I. Because I'm all powerful. And essentially, if you don't give me money, that will cost you in other ways. This is what is being said to rich people and to corporations, and most pointedly to corporations. So it's a rush. Hurry up and do this. But on the other side of this equation are the corporations, which are. And there were competing articles, one in the Wall Street Journal, which was about extorting these corporations to get money, and then the one in the New York Times, which was basically saying, hey, this is the best time in the world to be a. To be for a corporation to pursue what it wants, the deals it wants, because basically, the corporation is paying Donald Trump to give them what he wants. Donald Trump wants the money. The corporations want, you know, lesser regulatory pressures on themselves.

[B]

Well, especially for merchants.

[A]

Well, I think all kinds. Not just that. Whatever your corporation wants, you have a better chance now of getting it because you can pay for it. Just quid pro quo, easy. So the grift is obviously astounding, preposterous, unbelievable that this could happen so glaringly happen. But then there is a further thing about this which neither of these articles touched on, which is probably more important. One of the things that Trump is raising money for is his post White House. It's not even his life, I would say his post White House administration. He is going to, in his mind, he's going to leave the White House at the end of his term, having long since concluded that there's no way to extend it into a third term, and he's going to return to Mar A Lago, and he's going to still want to be the pretend president. He is still going to want to be the, the leader, the absolute leader of the Republican Party, still want to have the mechanism to command the attention that he needs to live by. Now, he's done this before. After 2020, he returned to Mar A Lago and then did become the president again. But one of the problems during that period was he didn't have enough money. I mean, the money thing was always a pressure. And by the way, it was Susie Wiles who came into the Mar A Lago White House, if you will, to get a hold on the money to figure out how they could create a Mar A Lago White House in exile and then run for president. That was her job. And it still in some ways remains her job. Looking forward, they need the, the Mar A Lago. The next Mar A Lago phase will be much easier to accomplish. If they've got a lot of money, now is the time to raise that money.

[B]

But he's already made $2 billion. I mean, we saw.

[A]

Well, that's his money. He's not going to spend his money or dip into his own pocket. No. And this is actually the other thing. It's not just the money that he has. This is a separate money. Remember, there's never enough money. And you don't want to leave if you're Donald Trump, of course, money on the table. Corporations now, at this point in time, when he has all of this leverage, are willing to give almost anything. And that's the, that's the spirit in which is this is being, the money is being raised. You know, I think the headline in the Journal was, was this, this, Trump's people and this particular woman call up and they say, the boss wants the money. The boss, the boss wants the money.

[B]

And I think she's raised $800 million from, from companies. I mean, and it's sort of astonishing. Checks here at 25 million, 10 million, 15 million. I mean, amazing. But, but right.

[A]

And just, and also remember this against his. It is likely that his leverage is going to decrease after November.

[B]

Well, I was going to ask you about that, though, because when he goes back to Mar A Lago, won't people by then have, have, have sort of left him behind? They'll be sick of him. I mean, I know that Stephen Miller stayed.

[A]

Well, I.

[B]

During the wilderness years.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I've certainly heard that before, and it turns out not to be true.

[B]

But last time he had the possibility of coming back. At the time, it seemed like an outbreak.

[A]

I'm going to challenge that. I don't think anybody, anybody, any sentient being thought he had a possibility of coming back.

[B]

Right. And so most of the people left him, right?

[A]

I mean most, yes, most of the people left him. There was nobody even, you know, even his son in law, Jared Kushner, you know, he expected Jared to remain as his kind of right hand. And Jared said, not me, I'm moving 90 miles away from you. So it's a, it's a difficult commute. What I'm going to do is give you Susie Wiles, this sort of mid level Republican political operative to run your office and I'm out of here. So, yeah, nobody expected this.

[B]

Fox News is streaming live on Fox 1, bringing you the stories you won't hear anywhere else. Live coverage, sharp analysis, real perspective stream now. So when he moves back to Mar A Lago, assuming he survives the presidency, do you think he will still have serious people around him or will he by then? Essentially? I mean, I get that he might be trying to run an alternative administration from Mar A Lago, but do you think he'll be trying to run the Republican Party or do you think there'll be other people?

[A]

Of course, yeah. Let me do this because there's two important points. He has never had serious people around him. Actually that's his M.O. yes, there will be people around him, all kinds of people around him. Why are they around? Because they're not serious people. But having an enormous amount of money means he can have all kinds of people around him. Plus an enormous amount of money means that he becomes a potential cash source for other Republicans. But even that, that does not, I mean his real power is that he has this power with a Republican base. There was, I mean a recent, recent poll, the most recent poll I've seen, which is devastating for Trump and put it puts his, puts his approvals at, you know, sinking at 34, something like, I mean just we're below the threshold. We're below the low threshold.

[B]

Oh, I think last night it said 75% of Americans don't approve of the job that Donald Trump, all kinds.

[A]

There is weakness everywhere. The one point at which there isn't weakness, however, is in that, that, that central evangelical Trump base. And that is still remarkably strong, unwavering. And. That's where his power comes from.

[B]

So people, the new leaders, whoever they turn out to be, will still have to come to Donald Trump to pay homage and want his support because he still will bring that base. That will be his base in Mar A Lago.

[A]

Yes. I mean too, that is certainly True. And then there's. Because Donald Trump overshadows everything. I mean, the only way you get attention, the only way you break through is if Donald Trump lets you break through. At any rate, all of this money gives him the opportunity to create this parallel world or parallel administration, parallel power base, and whoever the new president will be, and I'll guarantee it will be a Democratic president, or is he going to have to deal with that Donald Trump? I mean, Donald Trump is going to be around until he exits.

[B]

That was a very long exhale when you said until he exits. So one of the people that we know Trump absolutely hates, and actually he's also hated by a lot of Democrats, is James Comey. This week we saw attempts to throw out the case against him for posting pictures of seashells, which it wasn't clear if he'd done the picture himself or if he'd stumbled across the 86, 47 formation of seashells on the beach that someone else had done, but he posted it. And of course, someone, some bright eyed young person at the White House, immediately interpreted this as a serious threat on Donald Trump's life.

[A]

Oh, my God. I mean, oh, my God. But it actually. And it gets more preposterous because then in order to bolster this argument that James Coe made by saying 8647. So 8647. And as a threat on his life, and to bolster that argument, they went to interview Sammy the Bull Gravano, of course, a former Mafia kingpin. And essentially what they asked Sammy the Bull Gravano to confirm.

[B]

Just say it one more time, Michael, because I know you like to say Sammy the Bull Gravano.

[A]

And they asked Sammy the Bull Gravano to confirm that 86 was mafia talk somebody. Now, what that would have to do with James Comey at any rate. But it doesn't make any difference. Oh, I think they connected to. Because James Comey would have listened to Mafia wiretaps. And so his use.

[B]

Right, Because James Comey said he didn't know that 86 meant to kill somebody. Right. And once he found out, he immediately took the post down. Because normally 86 refers to getting rid of something like bad chicken in the fridge.

[A]

Right? So at any rate, Sammy the Bull Gravano said no respectable mafioso would ever say 86. So Sammy the Bull Gravano was not helpful to the Trump case at all. But everybody does get to talk about Sammy the Bull Gravano, which is a pleasure in itself.

[B]

Well, did you ever come across Sammy the Bull Gravano, you've lived in New York longer than I have. And the guy I remember from the mob was Vinnie the Chin, who I think was from the Genovese family and would wander round the West Village in a bathrobe looking disheveled.

[A]

Yes, yes, I can add to that because the Chin had a townhouse on East 77th street where he housed his girlfriend. And I live just right around the corner from.

[B]

So did you see him? Was he wearing his bathrobe when he would visit his.

[A]

No, on the Upper east side, he was not wearing his bathrobe. That is what actually ultimately hoisted the chin.

[B]

Well, I remember when we first moved to New York, we moved to the West Village, and I remember actually seeing Vinnie the Chin walking down Bleecker street, of course not knowing who he was. And then I think I came back and said, oh, I saw some strange old guy today just in his bathrobe. Cause back then that was still quite unusual. Now it's slightly less unusual. There are a few more people in their bathrobes wandering around downtown. But at the time it felt slightly unusual. And I remember coming back and saying, oh, I saw this strange, unshaven guy in his kind of stripy bathrobe. And then three weeks later he was on the front page of the New York Post. And the whole question was, is he genuinely. Does he genuinely have dementia? Which is what he was claiming, which was why he was wandering around in the bathrobe, or actually, is he just practicing at it? And in fact, when he's taken the bathrobe off, he's in a suit and he's off up to his girlfriend on the Upper east side, which they then

[A]

got pictures of him on the Upper east side. On.

[B]

Yeah, looking absolutely fine. Looking absolutely fine. And clean shave and clearly in possession of all his faculties. It didn't stop him going to jail, but it was an interesting defence. And for those of us who lived in the hood at the time, it was always interesting to spot him.

[A]

Ah, those good old days.

[B]

The good old days when the Mafia walked free and Rudy Giuliani was trying to put them in jail. So I am very pleased that the Olympian kayaker, Davey Hearn has been unarrested, as it were. Of course, they released this information on a Friday afternoon, a summer Friday afternoon. But who can forget the vociferousness, the excitement, the glee with which he was arrested and accused of almost single handedly destroying the reflecting pool, when in fact all he'd done was reach down and pick up a piece of peeling Paint. Yesterday, Jeanine Pirro, the U.S. attorney in D.C. dropped all charges against him and immediately through the Department of Interior under the bus, saying that it was their fault. They hadn't supplied her with the right information. And it turns out that she said Atlantic Industrial Coatings, the contractor who had done this work, and we remember it was a no bid contract. They're a friend of Donald Trump. They were blamed for the problems and it was entirely their fault.

[A]

And this is the moment that I get to say that the person in my life, rather long life at this point, who has, who has been the drunkest I've ever seen anyone, is Jeanine Pirroult.

[B]

And didn't you, didn't you, didn't you worry that you were getting totally panic?

[A]

I thought I was gonna get stuck with her. I mean, this was at the Hay Adams Hotel and I remember this vivid. I literally thought, what am I going to do? What do you do with someone this strong?

[B]

So, well, what did you do? Or someone else came along and relieved you of the problem?

[A]

Yes, yes, it was actually Steve Bannon's PR person stepped in and dealt with it as Ikenominiously crept off.

[B]

Well, I don't think Donald Trump is going to like the conclusion that was given out by Pirro's office. Almost immediately after the work on the pool was completed, peeling paint was observed along the pool perimeter. A report by a National Park Service engineer in early June concluded the problem was due to contractor error via paint overspray. I'm just going to give Norm Eisen, Davy Hearn's lawyer, the last word here. The Trump administration's case against Davey Hearn should never have been brought. Its dismissal does not erase the abuse of government power in arresting and charging a patriotic American who did nothing wrong. I mean, how stupid of them to arrest an Olympian and think it was going to end well for them. Of course, he wasn't ripping up the bottom of the reflecting.

[A]

Of course this is any more preposterous than 86, 47. It's a whole series of these kinds of things that strain not only logic and credulity, but,

[B]

well, it's such a

[A]

waste of human intelligence at any level.

[B]

Right. And also I think this is the stuff that people look at and think, where am I taxing dollars going? Why are they going to stupid cases like this when we know that there are real problems going on?

[A]

Yeah, I think it's further. I think it's that they, that they, that they understand that Donald Trump is, is, you know the words out of control. I mean, Donald Trump will do anything. Donald Trump lives in a world of his own. I think that's the point.

[B]

I know, but the trouble is that it's. It. There's a. What do they call, concentric circle with our world. One of the subjects we've also heard a lot on from people is Mitch McConnell's absence. Where is he? How can he take all this time off? The Senate claim he's working, and yet we know he's using an auto pen. He hasn't released a video even just saying for 10 seconds, thanks so much for all your good wishes. I'm working hard at rehab. I'll be back soon. People are just saying if I did this at work, if I took two days off, if nobody heard from me, I would be out of a job. Why is it these senators are given so much benefit of the doubt?

[A]

I'm trying to.

[B]

I mean, have you seen Mitch McConnell?

[A]

Yeah. I feel some amount of sympathy here. The man is an old man. He's had this job for a very long time. He's served the people of his state in a way that they've obviously have approved of for a very long time. He is old. He is dying. He doesn't have very long to go in his role in the Senate. This is not a question of years, and that has been in the past. There have been people who have been waylaid for, for years in the Senate, but he doesn't. He has essentially months to go. He's essentially a lame duck in his role. And I suppose searching for some in this family, searching for some level of dignity. And, you know, I feel some sympathy for an old man who was trying to leave, leave the stage with his head held up in some fashion. Now, apparently, I would imagine his head doesn't hold up at all.

[B]

And so you don't feel much sympathy there.

[A]

And, and I know, you know, and

[B]

when you say sympathy, I'm always on alert. I'm like, wait for it, wait for it. Because something's coming. Yeah.

[A]

And so, you know, and I don't, at this point, he doesn't seem to be. Have much dignity left. And so I don't know why they don't just call it a day and get him out of there. But, you know, being an old man is probably hard.

[B]

Well, it just goes to show, they should have term limits. I think, you know, a third of the Senate is.

[A]

Yeah, but a term limits wouldn't necessarily be. Term limits don't fall in the middle of your term. And I guess the term limits could have could have come for his last term. I don't think that they should have term limits. I think, you know, people get, people get old and in hell, that's, you

[B]

know, who you know. And I know you've written about him recently in your substack and I'm not a fan, but actually I saw him on CNN this week being grilled by Kaitlin Collins and he was very impressive. Bernie Sanders, 84, didn't appear to have a fly on him. And I don't know if you remember, but Bernie had a heart attack in the 2020 election when he was running. But on, on whenever it was this week on Caitlin's show, he seemed vigorous. He didn't seem like he'd missed a step. And I could see why. There's so much enthusiasm around him. And it's amazing that he's 84. He looks so much more vigorous than the President.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know what to say about this. Some people at 84 are in Great shape. I know many of them. It's some people in less good shape. That's what happens.

[B]

Okay, so I have a question for you. Why isn't the president on a GLP1? We know that he's obese. We know that he's put on £15 in the last year. That came out of his most recent health report. Why hasn't someone said to him, you know, given all the remarkable side effects it seems to have, people are calling it a miracle drug that it helps with longevity. Why hasn't someone put Trump on a GLP1, do you think?

[A]

Ah, on this point in my book, all or nothing, which means. Which would indicate that maybe you didn't get to the end of it. There was, I report,

[B]

I always skim books.

[A]

So maybe, yes, I report that there was a coterie of, of denizens of the Mar A Lago terrorists who were certainly believed and were intensely gossiping about Trump being on a GLP1. So he may well have been. I mean he has denied it, but of course that doesn't mean anything at all. He may well have been. Certainly these people who were quite close to Trump. Trump believe this to be the case now. And it also might be he is not on it now because the side effects were unpleasant for him or he actually likes the pleasure of consuming immense amount of junk food. I don't know. But I think there is a decent possibility that he was on a GLP1.

[B]

Okay, well, I just thought with his 15 pounds that he might want to think about It. So we have a new form of poem today. This is from Paul Hillman. Actually, if I remember the email correctly, it's actually from Paul Hillman's wife, but it was sent on Paul Hillman's email. There once was a podcast, so sleek with a bright British lass and a geek. You're the geek. Joanna and Michael engaged in a cycle of sharing the news once a week. Their quick conversation so brash. The hour flies by. In a flash. Smart and well bred, they go inside Trump's head to deliver his cluster of trash.

[A]

So the new category is here. Not poems or limericks involving Donald Trump, but in adulation of us.

[B]

Well, perhaps that's why I like the category. That might be the. That might be the category. But I thought it was rather fun. I thought it was rather fun. I liked it. Anyway, thank you very much for sending that in. I think we both have summer colds. Do you have a summer cold?

[A]

I do not have a summer cold. Okay, well, you were coughing, but perhaps, Perhaps you do.

[B]

Maybe I have a summer cold. Who knows? Michael, we'll be back on Tuesday, Back inside Trump's head on Tuesday. You're skipping out into the Hamptons sun, running up and down the beach, collecting shells. Will you be posting any pictures of your shell collections?

[A]

My shell collections? That's interesting. Maybe we should all86.47 and called Sammy the Bull Gravano.

[B]

Maybe we should. What would they do if everybody. Why has nobody thought about it?

[A]

Why don't we get why we could. Is Sammy the Bull Gravano making any podcast appearances?

[B]

I think Sammy Gravano the Bull is in jail because shortly, because, and I know this because tomorrow we drop a podcast with Andrew Weissman, the former general counsel of the FBI, who used to use Sammy the Bull as an expert witness. And precisely because he was so useful as an expert witness, he actually got a very light sentence for his initial mob activities. But then when he came out of jail, I think he'd been in prison for about five years. He moved to Arizona, promptly got involved in a drug ring, got caught, and is now serving 20 years.

[A]

Sammy the Bull.

[B]

Sammy the Bull. Well, Sammy the Bull, if you happen to be watching, thank you for. Well, do we say thank you to Sammy the Bull? That's not quite right, is it?

[A]

Well, well, let's, let's thank. Yeah, well, thank you to Sammy the Bull for apparently telling the truth about the use of the word 86.

[B]

And Sammy, if you can comment, do put a comment in the. Well, in the comments, although people won't like the fact we're encouraging a criminal to do that. I know. I can already see the comments ahead of time.

[A]

Yeah, we can't encourage a criminal to comment.

[B]

I think. I think we can't because we will be glamorizing them in some way. Anyway, Sammy's made his impact on history.

[A]

I love. I'd love to hear from Sammy the Bull Gravano. I have many questions.

[B]

Okay, well, let's see if we can flush him out.

[A]

Did you ask Andrew Weissman about Sammy the Bull Gravano?

[B]

I did. Of course I did. And he actually said what it was like. And he had an amazing description of how he was incredibly straightforward about the methods that they would use. And in one particular description, he talked about how they killed someone. They took him down to a kiddie pool in the basement of the house and then chopped him up so that the blood wouldn't go everywhere. The point of the kiddie pool was to keep it all tidy. It was sort of gobsmacking. But it's a very interesting interview with him, which I recommend, people. Which drops at 2 o' clock tomorrow on YouTube and wherever else you get your podcasts.

[A]

At any rate, I will see you in the studio on Tuesday.

[B]

I will see you in the studio on Tuesday. Have a wonderful rest of your weekend, everybody. Don't forget to leave your favorite part of the podcast in the comments and tell us what you think about the crazy that's going on. This is where you thank the team.

[A]

You thank them.

[B]

Okay, I'm going to thank Ryan Murray, John Romero, Heather Passaro, Rachel Passer, and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing, to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into sign up for your $1 per month [e-mail] specialoffer.