Why Trump’s ‘Psychosis’ Has Insiders Terrified

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode: Why Trump’s ‘Psychosis’ Has Insiders Terrified
Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: David Rothkopf (Chief Global Affairs Columnist, The Daily Beast)
Date: March 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

This high-stakes, incisively critical episode, hosted by Joanna Coles, digs into the “psychosis” driving President Trump’s management of the ongoing war with Iran and its sweeping global repercussions. Featured guest David Rothkopf, former Foreign Policy editor and ex-member of the Clinton administration, brings his deep intelligence and diplomatic network to bear on Washington’s terrifying climate: a nation at war, led dangerously off-course by a president advisers say is paranoid and delusional—and without any meaningful guardrails left.

The conversation sharply critiques the war’s rationale, its execution, and the broader collapse of traditional U.S. foreign policy and leadership. Rothkopf’s signature blend of caustic wit and sobering analysis exposes not only the machinery of chaos in the White House but the ripple effects destabilizing global alliances, the economy, and American democracy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The War Is the Product of Presidential “Psychosis”

• Rothkopf’s Central Thesis: The current war is unprecedentedly being driven by the “psychosis of one individual”—President Trump—rather than processes, strategy, or national consensus.
  • “All the guardrails, all the processes, all the systems that have evolved over time to avoid just this kind of catastrophe have been shut down, broken down, and we're left with a decaying, elderly, ignorant, paranoid, vainglorious, deluded commander in chief making it up as he goes along.” — David Rothkopf [00:22, repeated at 13:48]
  • There is a lack of anyone in the administration able or willing to say ‘no’ to Trump.

2. Religious Zealotry in the Defense Department

• Trump’s Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, is using alarming religious rhetoric, framing the conflict as a “holy war.”
  • “He said we should all be on a bended knee to pray to Jesus Christ... This is a guy with, you know, white supremacist Christian tattoos all over his body.” — David Rothkopf [02:40]
• The danger of Crusades-style religiosity in military leadership is highlighted.

3. Absence of Strategy and Planning

• Military Performance vs. Policy Vacuum: The armed forces execute missions professionally, but there is no overarching strategy, no anticipation of consequences, and near-universal expert consensus (outside the Trump inner circle) that the war is a disaster.
  • “There's almost nobody who isn't at the inner, inner circle of the Trump administration who thinks this is going well...” — David Rothkopf [05:34]
• The administration ignored decades of bipartisan wisdom about the risks of targeting Iran.

4. Economic Shock and Global Instability

• Energy Crisis: Historic disruption to global oil and gas markets is already causing cascading price hikes in energy, fertilizer, food, and transport—heightening risks of a global recession.
  • “The Financial Times just said this is the worst disruption of global energy markets ever... The price of a ton of fertilizer like urea has doubled since January.” — David Rothkopf [07:54]
• Attacks on infrastructure (like the Qatari gas plant) have multi-year recovery timelines.

5. The Escalatory Race and the Strait of Hormuz

• The administration is deploying more Marines and considering dangerous military escalation (boots on the ground, strategic islands, etc.).
  • “Once you start putting boots on the ground, then you start having people killed, then you start having pushback of the worst sort... there's a term of art that's used in Washington, the escalatory ladder.” — David Rothkopf [09:45, 11:30]
• Rothkopf notes even the war’s supposed objectives—regime change, curbing nuclear threats—are unattainable under current policy.

6. Collapse of Institutional Expertise and Process

• Trump has purged experienced analysts from key agencies, leaving the U.S. flying blind.
• The war is managed at the whim of Trump’s impulses, not institutional deliberation.
  • “The world has not been as negatively affected by the psychological dysfunction within the mind of one person since Hitler blew his brains out in the bunker...” — David Rothkopf [13:33]
• The “process is everything” mantra: “A good process does not guarantee a good outcome, but no process guarantees a bad outcome.” — David Rothkopf [17:41, 17:59]

7. Geopolitical Fallout: Russia, Ukraine, China

• Russia’s Gain: Sanctions relief and high oil prices help Russia bankroll further aggression, including support for Iran and pressure on Ukraine.
• Ukraine Loses Support: Arms and focus are diverted from Ukraine to the new conflict; Rothkopf cites “a big boot on the throat of Ukraine.” [19:41]
• China’s Opportunity: U.S. distraction and resource shift to the Gulf give China both credibility as a stabilizer and strategic leverage vis-à-vis Taiwan and the broader Indo-Pacific.
  • “When it rebuilds, when they need money, who are they going to turn to? They're going to turn to the Chinese.” — David Rothkopf [23:04]

8. Political Calculations and Manipulation

• Speculation that Trump will “declare victory” soon, regardless of facts, to pivot attention away from the growing mess—and possibly on to other targets (hinted at: Cuba, Greenland). [26:56]
• War serves as a “distraction machine” from domestic troubles, scandals, and poor poll numbers.
  • “He fucks around, he finds out, and then he wants to change the subject and he tries to turn it.” — David Rothkopf [26:56]

9. The Looming Threat of Postwar Investigations

• If Democrats retake the House, a tidal wave of investigations is expected—into Trump’s entire circle.
  • “There is an initiative right now to identify what investigations the House Oversight Committee will begin the moment they take the majority back...” — David Rothkopf [30:06]
• Trump’s legal and political exposure is increasing, and he is acutely aware of it.

10. Trump’s Decline – Psychological & Physical

• Recurrent references to Trump’s public and mental deterioration.
  • “He's looking like a little old man. His head is down in there, and of course, he's got his blotched hand, he's got his swollen ankles, and his brain is complete mush.” — David Rothkopf [40:32]
• Multiple analogies liken Trump’s impulsive, “serial” style in policy to his well-documented private life and scandals (e.g., Stormy Daniels, Epstein). [34:20-36:39]

11. International Embarrassment and the “Pearl Harbor” Gaffe

• Trump’s “surprise” reference to Pearl Harbor at a joint event with Japan’s PM left observers and the Japanese leader itself “aghast.”
  • “Who knows better about surprise than Japan? ... Okay, why didn't you tell me about Pearl Harbor?” — Trump, recounted by Rothkopf [37:15]
• The hosts discuss how such incidents erode American influence and credibility.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the War’s Origin:
  “All of the action that matters is happening between Trump’s ears... it is being driven by the psychosis of one individual.”
  — David Rothkopf [13:33]

• On Policy Process:
  “A good process does not guarantee a good outcome, but no process guarantees a bad outcome.”
  — David Rothkopf [17:41, 17:59]

• On U.S. Decline:
  “Nothing has happened to American standing in the world as damaging as Donald Trump's five years in office…all of these things have made America weaker than we have been in a hundred years and are a blow to America greater than anything that any one of our enemies has ever delivered.”
  — David Rothkopf [43:15–44:55]

• On Polls and Approval:
  “Pete Hegseth...is now down 17. Negative 17 in approval. Trump is at negative 41 on his economic policies. And I think with independence, he’s at negative 60.”
  — David Rothkopf [29:26, 29:50]

• On Trump’s Decision-Making:
  “He goes into something, he talks big, he promises a great return. It doesn’t turn out that way. He fucks around, he finds out, and then he wants to change the subject.”
  — David Rothkopf [26:56]

• On Trump’s Fitness:
  “He is a lot of talk and bluster, but not well known for performance. There is almost no area of his history as a pathetic... sex abusing creep that is not a perfect analogy for his behavior as a pathetic, disgusting national security, undermining...creep.”
  — David Rothkopf [35:13]

• On International Embarrassment:
  “He said the worst possible thing, the biggest gaffe... when he does this kind of stuff, there's a big national consequence, there's a big geopolitical consequence. America loses face, America loses leverage.”
  — David Rothkopf [42:08]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic / Quote | |-----------|--------------| | 00:22 | Opening critique: war is product of Trump’s “psychosis.” | | 02:40 | Defense Secretary Hegseth’s holy war rhetoric. | | 05:34 | Military execution vs. absence of strategy. | | 07:54 | Economic/energy crisis stemming from war. | | 09:45 | Strait of Hormuz; risks of escalation. | | 13:33 | The centrality of Trump’s mind; historical analogy to Hitler. | | 17:41 | Maxim: “A good process does not guarantee a good outcome, but no process guarantees a bad outcome.” | | 19:41 | Ukraine as collateral damage in U.S.-Iran war. | | 23:04 | China’s rise as U.S. is distracted, withdrawal from Indo-Pacific. | | 26:56 | Trump likely to manufacture “victory” and shift to another crisis. | | 30:06 | Coming flood of congressional investigations if Democrats win. | | 34:20 | Analogy between Trump’s “invasion interruptus” and personal conduct. | | 35:13 | Blunt, explicit character critique of Trump. | | 37:15 | Trump’s “Pearl Harbor” gaffe with Japanese PM. | | 40:32 | Description of Trump’s physical and cognitive decline. | | 43:15 | Most damaging era for U.S. standing: Rothkopf’s summation. | | 45:05 | Coles asks for a more cheerful outlook; Rothkopf demurs. | | 46:33 | Presidential desperation; risk of more chaos before midterms. | | 48:36 | How to cope: “whatever adult beverage you want...change les idées.” |

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Tone & Style

The episode blends world-weary irony, biting political commentary, and grim humor with moments of banter about British comedy, analogies to Trump’s personal scandals, and astute, sometimes alarming, institutional analysis. Both host and guest maintain a conversational, dinner-party-like informality even as the content turns damning and occasionally profane.

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Takeaways

• The war with Iran has no coherent strategy and is producing catastrophic global consequences, all “made up” by Trump’s unstable decision-making.
• Washington’s experts—military, intelligence, diplomatic—are largely horrified, terrified to speak out, and resigned to outcomes spiraling beyond U.S. control.
• American economic security, global influence, and democratic institutions are under extreme threat, while authoritarian rivals like Russia and China benefit.
• The episode closes with a somber warning: the collapse of process and norms in American government under Trump is unique in modern history—and the results may haunt both America and the world for years to come.

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This summary captures the urgent, unvarnished analysis characteristic of the Daily Beast’s team, with Rothkopf and Coles offering both gallows humor and biting historical perspective.

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Transcript

[John Stamos]

Hey, there. It's me, John Stamos, in partnership with Cologuard. And a little birdie told me you're over 45. Listen, that's not old. It's really not. But it's an important age. If you're at average risk, that's when you start screening for colon cancer. And look, it's okay to be nervous, but it's not okay to ignore your own health. It's time to see if the Cologuard test can be an option for you to get screened. All right, I'm glad we had this little chat.

[David Rothkopf]

We don't have people around the president who will say no to them. And even if we did, he wouldn't listen to them. This is so different from. From any other war that we have ever seen because it is being driven by the psychosis of one individual. And everybody in Washington knows that all the guardrails, all the processes, all the systems that have evolved over time to avoid just this kind of catastrophe have been shut down, broken down, and we're left with a decaying, elderly, ignorant, paranoid, vainglorious, deluded commander in chief making it up as he goes along.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. Who better to discuss the war with than the great David Rothkopf, our chief global affairs columnist, who was the former former editor of Foreign Policy magazine and worked in the Commerce Department for the Clinton administration and now runs a network of podcasts for his own company, Deep State Radio, and has amazing connections in the intelligence community and in the foreign and the diplomatic corps. I don't need to tell you we're at war. Pete Hegseth is telling us to prey on bended knee, and Marco Rubio is apparently talking to the Cubans. Who knows what will happen tomorrow, but for today, well, we have David Rothkopf to bring some sanity and some illumination to what feels like the creeping darkness. David Rothkopf. It's been. What has it been, a week since we last spoke, and now you're back with a very fancy new title because you are officially now Chief Global Affairs Columnist. It's very exciting, David. Thrilled to have you. And I'm assuming that the reason you look slightly low on your camera is because you are on bended knee, per our Defense Secretary, Pete Hegsworth, telling us all we should be on bended knee.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, he said we should all be on a bended knee to pray to Jesus Christ. This is a guy with, you know, white supremacist Christian tattoos all over his body, and he Seems to think that the way to approach this war is holy war, that, you know, he refers to the Iranian regime as an apocalyptic regime. There were stories of troops being motivated to head out into this fray with talks about the apocalypse and these kinds of issues. I have to wonder if he's ever read any history because the Crusades didn't turn out so well.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I wonder if this is enough to make him start drinking again. As we know, he's a man who has in the past previously liked a jar, as they call it in the uk. He said he wasn't gonna drink on this job, on this particular job. But it seems like he's hurtling from one sucker to another. When I say sucker, I mean S U C C O U R. Thank

[David Rothkopf]

you for clarifying that. Look, I think he's certainly behaving like somebody is drinking. He is incoherent. The policies he's supporting are incoherent. He's veering around. I mean, sort of Trump Admin Foreign policy is sort of following the footsteps of a drunk out of the bar, right? We go to the left, we go to the right. We're doing this, we're doing that. I'm on my knees, I'm standing up, shouting at the heavens. But it all reminds me of the line from the movie Airplane where he said, I picked a heck of a day to give up sniffing glue. You know, I mean. Cause you gotta. You know, there's no metric by which you can assess what's going on in this misbegotten war in which is the success. There's none.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, so, David, I know that you're sitting there in D.C. in the middle

[Credit Karma/TurboTax Advertiser]

of

[Joanna Coles]

an array of sources in the defense community, in the intelligence community, in the foreign services community. What are people telling you? What are you hearing about how things are going? And to your point about it following the footsteps of a drunk staggering out of a bar. Do people understand and agree with why we are in this war?

[David Rothkopf]

Well, a bunch of good questions. I would start by saying it depends on who you're talking to. You know, if you're talking to military people, one of the things they'll say is the missions have been carried out extremely well. Pilots who've been called upon to do bombing runs or people who've been called upon to do other sorts of missions have executed them with the professionalism that you would expect of the US Military. The problem is there's no strategy. The problem is there has been no planning. There is no sense of consequences. We've been adversarially involved with Iran since, well, almost 50 years now. Right. And Democrats have faced the Iranians. Republicans have faced the Iranians. They've all disliked the Iranians. They've all seen the Iranians as a threat. And yet every single government, and when I talk to people, they're from those governments, every single one of those governments thought Iran, let's not attack Iran because it's going to cause problems in global energy markets, because it's going to cause problems in the region, because there's 92 million Iranians, because this could spread around the world in a host of other ways, including terrorism, or perhaps some of their fissile material gets out and gets used in a dirty bomb somewhere. There are, there are a lot of bad scenarios. And I think the thing that's really striking when you talk to people now is there's almost nobody who isn't at the inner, inner circle of the Trump administration who thinks this is going well. There's almost no, you get Republicans on TV who defend it because they know if they don't, Trump will come after them in their primaries or in the general election. But talk to them behind the scenes, talk to their staff. They're terrified.

[Joanna Coles]

And they're terrified of what? Because in theory, as you say, the military sorties have been successful. America has enormous dominance in the air. What are the things that they're terrified of?

[David Rothkopf]

Well, there's several fold. Right. The Financial Times just said this is the worst disruption of global energy markets ever, ever in history. We've seen the price of a barrel of oil go towards $120 a barrel. We know that there is a trigger slightly north of that for a global recession if it stays at that level. We have seen not just interruptions with the flow of oil out through the Strait of Hormuz, but in the past couple of days, we've seen attacks on gas fields. The big attack on the Qatari plant that took place yesterday, they're now saying may take three to five years to repair. So what you see there is higher gas prices knock on effects that include higher transportation prices, higher food prices. The price of a ton of fertilizer like urea has doubled since January. If you're just a small farmer someplace, that really hits you hard and it will lead to food shortages.

[Joanna Coles]

So, David, should we take President Trump seriously when he says that they're going to be able to keep open the Strait of Hormuz and that American Marines are on their way? Why they weren't there in the first place? I do not know, probably because this wasn't anticipated, even though people did seem to know it was highly plausible that this might happen, that the Iranians would choose to do this. So is it possible? And do your friends in the intelligence services think it's possible that Marines can keep this open?

[David Rothkopf]

Well, first of all, everybody knew this would happen. And when you talk to military planners, they knew it would happen. You talk to diplomats, they knew this would happen. The intelligence community knew that this was one of the tools that the Iranians had. The Strait of Hormuz is what, 21 miles across. The Iranians can wreak havoc there without big military presence. You can have little boats with explosives on them. You can have small shoulder fired missiles that could sink a big tanker. And each tanker costs $100 million. The insurance costs go through the roof. People are petrified by it. And what do you do with the troops? Apparently, Trump is now sending in thousands more Marine expeditionary troops into the region. The talk right now is that the White House is seriously looking at putting boots on the ground on Carg island, which is this big energy facility on the sort of northern part of the Persian Gulf. Once you start putting boots on the ground, then you start having people killed, then you start having pushback of the worst sort. Then you start having the Iranians targeting more facilities in neighboring countries, in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, in the Emirates and so forth. You talk about there's a term of art that's used in Washington, the escalatory ladder.

[Joanna Coles]

And the escalatory ladder. So it's just the deepening of the involvement.

[David Rothkopf]

Right. And that is, you know, Trump says every day, well, we could leave and it would be a big victory. But he also knows it's not a big victory. You know, the nearly 1,000 pounds of enriched uranium that the Iranians have, they still have. The scientists who are in their nuclear program are still there. Even though the facilities were destroyed, the know how is still there. The ability to launch missiles, the ability, they have a big drone industry there, the ability to launch $10,000 drones that can do a lot of damage. All those things are still there. The regime, despite having its first and second and third tier of leaders assassinated by the US and by the Israelis, remains in place because it's been around a long time. The opposition to the regime has been killed and thrown into jail over the past few years by the Iranian government. So this idea that they're going to kind of rise up and drive regime change seems extremely unlikely. And even Benjamin Netanyahu is one of the chief agitators behind this yesterday acknowledged in a speech that you can't do regime change with an air war. And so whether your metric is the nuclear program or the missile program or regime change or regional stability, we're worse off right now. And there is no prospect of that it's gonna get better anytime soon.

[Joanna Coles]

So, David, as you say, a lot of this was predictable and predicted. Why was no one paying attention? Or why do we seem so unprepared?

[David Rothkopf]

You know, you would do a podcast here called Inside Trump's Mind, right?

[Joanna Coles]

Inside Trump's head. Inside his head. We're not. We're not sure he has a moment.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, I think that's fair, but the point is, all of the action that matters is happening between Trump's ears. And I think, as I wrote in my substack a few days ago, The world has not been as negatively affected by the psychological dysfunction within the mind of one person since Hitler blew his brains out in the bunker underneath the German Reich Chancellery in April of 1945. And what I mean by that is Trump doesn't listen to advisors, as he says. He relies on his gut. And so when General Kaine says they could shut down the Gulf, he says, we'll come at them hard. They probably won't do that. A story came out today that said that a few months ago or earlier, last year, actually, Doge eliminated the people in the State Department who made assessments about the oil and gas industry and how global upheaval would affect them. Days before the war started, Kash Patel eliminated the people in the FBI who were responsible for Iranian counterintelligence. So we don't have the experts. We don't have people around the president who will say no to them. And even if we did, he wouldn't listen to them. And so this is so different from any other war that we have ever seen, because it is being driven by the psychosis of one individual. And everybody in Washington knows that all the guardrails, all the processes, all the systems that have evolved over time to avoid just this kind of catastrophe have been shut down, broken down, run around, and we're left with a decaying, elderly, ignorant, paranoid, vainglorious, deluded Commander in chief making it up as he goes along.

[Joanna Coles]

So were he in the podcast studio with us right now, Donald Trump might say, well, you say all that, but actually, there were lots of plans in 2003 when America went into Iraq, and look how that turned out.

[David Rothkopf]

Oh, I mean, what is that response? You mean we had a lot of plans and that was fucked? Up. And so even though we had no plans now, and this is also fucked up, it's the same as having plans.

[Joanna Coles]

I think the point being that he doesn't appear to have a plan, as you said. And as we discuss thrice weekly on Inside Trump's Head, the world is enthralled to what's going on between those two ears and under the carapace of moldy hay, as one viewer described his hair, which is still the best description. That's pretty fantastic I've had for it, isn't it? It's. It's from a poem, but it's such a good description of his hair. Mouldy hay. And it probably gives off a smell, a scent of fragrance, like mouldy hay, too. Yeah. I guess what I'm talking about is just the sense in which, with the best planning in the world, things go wrong in war right from day one. So he would argue that. What's the difference? I'm just plowing ahead.

[David Rothkopf]

National security professionals will tell you that a good process doesn't guarantee a good outcome, but no process guarantees a bad outcome.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, that's a very good line. Can you just say that again? Can you remember what you just said?

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah, no, no. It's a line a lot of people say. National security professionals will tell you that a good process does not guarantee a good outcome, but no process guarantees a bad outcome.

[Joanna Coles]

So what are these national security professionals saying right now? Are they in complete despair?

[David Rothkopf]

I think many of them are in despair. And, of course, a lot of them are asking themselves, what's going to happen next? Will there be boots on the ground? Will there be an escalation? Will there be an economic crisis? What does this mean for geopolitics? We lifted sanctions on Russian oil, which means Russia, which is an economic crunch, is making money off of this war, even though they acknowledge themselves as recently as today that they are the ones who are helping the Iranians target Americans. We're essentially paying them, and by we, I mean Trump is essentially paying them to potentially do damage to American soldiers, sailors and airmen, to our vessels, to our allies. And how do we know? Because Steve Witkoff said. Oh, he said he wasn't. And I take him at his word, because the Russians today said, we'll stop doing that if you stop giving intelligence to the Ukrainians.

[Joanna Coles]

So where does that leave Ukraine in all this, the forgotten war at this point?

[David Rothkopf]

Well, first of all, it's not the. There are a bunch of forgotten wars. I would point out that the Israelis have gone into Lebanon a million People have been displaced. Over 1,000 people have been killed, and nobody's paying any attention to that war right now. But in terms of the Ukrainians, there's a little bit of upside and a lot of downside. The upside is Ukrainians have been dealing with Iranian drones and Russian drones for four years abhor now, and they're pretty good at dealing with it. And so they are actually being hired to help various states in the region defend themselves against the Iranian drone threat. Now, having said that, as good as that is for them, you know, what do they need from the United States? They need advanced air defenses. Are they going to get those? No, because we've depleted them all in the region. We're going to need more in the region. And so the ones that we would have sold to the Europeans so they could give them to the Ukrainians are not going to be available. That makes Ukraine more vulnerable. The United States is spending huge amounts of money on this conflict. The president wants $200 billion supplemental to help pay for this conflict. So are we going to give more or less to help support Ukraine NATO, which is absolutely vital to Ukraine's defenses? And the president of the European Union yesterday said they were going to give $90 billion to Ukraine, whether Hungary liked it or not. Hungary had been an impediment. Trump today said NATO is a paper tiger if we're not involved. He's so pissed off at NATO for not stepping up and helping out with getting ships through the Strait of Hormuz that he's talked privately about getting out of NATO. And that would be. Oh, Trump's crazy. He'll get over it. He's been talking about that ever since he took the oath of office. The first time he has had to be stopped by senior officials from pulling out of or weakening NATO for the past five and a half years of him being president. So a weaker NATO, that's bad for Ukraine. No missiles, bad for Ukraine, no US Support, bad for Ukraine. Everybody distracted by this other war. Bad for Ukraine. Russia making more money off of this war and therefore being able to buy more weapons and put more pressure on Ukraine, bad for Ukraine. So not only is this war achieving nothing, putting our allies in the region at risk, destroying the global economy, but it's also putting a big boot on the throat of Ukraine. And just. I know it's a lot to keep track of, but the Chinese are benefiting enormously.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I was just going to ask you about that because obviously Trump has delayed his trip. There was. What's the significance of the delay and what are you hearing about how the Chinese are viewing this whole matter?

[David Rothkopf]

Well, I mean, the significance is that the big foreign policy win that Trump was planning to have this spring was to go meet with Xi Jinping and have some kind of a deal and be seen as a statesman. He views Xi Jinping as the most important head of state in the world because he is. And that would be a kind of a win. And he's not going to get to that now because he's distracted by this war. He also thought he was going to go there with this tariff weapon that he thought he had intact, this kind of cudgel that he thought he could use. And of course, the Supreme Court has taken that away from him and he's finding it really hard to put it back in place for good reason. What he's tried to do is illegal. So he is not able to go in and do what he wanted with the Chinese. Meanwhile, the Chinese and I talk to people in China or know China really well. They're, you know, quietly to themselves, they could be happier. What's happening here? United States is weakening itself. America's allies are weakening themselves. America is no longer seen as a stabilizing force in the world. The Chinese are seen as the stabilizing force in the world. The Chinese are the number one trading and investment partner of almost every country in the Middle east, which means when it rebuilds, when they need money, who are they going to turn to? They're going to turn to the Chinese. And Chinese influence, which has been growing in the Middle east, is going to continue to grow in the Middle East. And so here you have one of these kind of watershed moments where you can watch the United States administer self inflicted wound after self inflicted wound to itself and see it recede as a great power and see China sit back and benefit. And that's to say nothing of the fact that we're taking carrier battle groups and Marine expeditionary Forces and weapons out of the Indo Pacific region and moving them into the Persian Gulf or in the vicinity of the Persian Gulf, which makes our allies in the region more vulnerable and above all, makes Taiwan much more vulnerable to the Chinese. And if Chinese decided to make a move on Taiwan, it said, well, in the past the US Would say, well, that's naked aggression. Well, of course, we can't really say that anymore. Right. Because we have, without provocation, attacked Venezuela, attacked Iran, threatening Cuba, threatening Cuba. We've attacked a total of eight countries thus far in violation of international law, in violation of U.S. law. So this opens the door to all sorts of mischief by other countries around the world.

[Joanna Coles]

So, David, it's hard not to think about Mark Carney's comment, the Prime Minister of Canada at Davos before this war, that the world's order had been ruptured. Is there. I mean, especially given the complexity of the Strait of Hormuz. And you can see a scenario where the Iranians keep that chokehold and we are in there for years trying to protect it. Do you think there is an option where America pulls out and the strait somehow remains open?

[David Rothkopf]

Look, I think the most likely option is that at some point in days or weeks, Trump says, we're getting nowhere. I'm going to declare victory. I believe that we've destroyed their military and destroyed their leadership. That's what we're sent in to do. And so he'll stand up. He'll tell the American people it was another great victory following the Venezuela model. Not sure what that is, because all we did was decapitate the regime. This regime's still there. But he'll say it was a great victory, and then he'll turn his attention to Cuba. By the way, I just tell you, as a little bit of an aside, there was a little bit of an interesting note the other day, yesterday, I think it was, that didn't get picked up. But at some point, I think during a press event, Trump was asked about the $200 billion that the administration is seeking at Defense supplemental. And they said, that's a lot of money. It's more than the cost of this war. Does that mean the war is going to go on for a long time? And Trump said, well, no, there's money in there for some of the other things we intend to do. So what does that mean? Does that mean Cuba? Does that mean that's the next war? Greenland, who can be sure? But Trump's usual plan is he goes into something, he talks big, he promises a great return. It doesn't turn out that way. He fucks around, he finds out, and then he wants to change the subject and he tries to turn it. And the way he does it as president is he goes from one controversy to another controversy because he knows that's what gets the Washington press corps all agitated.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and it's what distracts from what's going on at home. Right. So we've got the Epstein files that people are still plowing through and are still unresolved. And we have another 3 million due to drop. It gets us away from ice, it gets us away from increasing in prices. It gets us Away from his inability to try and turf out the Chairman of the Fed, which the courts overruled, his efforts to do that, and his constant losing in the courts right now.

[David Rothkopf]

And it gets away from poll results that show just terrible across the board. There was a poll today that was announced on CNN that at this time, the last administration, the Secretary of Defense, General Mattis, was kind of plus 30 in approval. Pete Hegseth, the Christian warrior we mentioned at the beginning, he's now down 17. Negative 17 in approval.

[Joanna Coles]

Negative 17.

[David Rothkopf]

Trump is at negative 41 on his economic policies. And I think with independence, he's at negative 60.

[Joanna Coles]

Yep, he is. I saw that poll with Harry Enton talking everybody through it.

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah, that's beyond underwater. That's somewhere in the Marianas Trench. You know. You know, that is as bad an outcome in a poll as any American president has ever had for anything. And that bodes poorly for him, especially since his only domestic initiative that he's pushing right now is the SAVE act, which is essentially a voter suppression act. And he's not gonna get that through in all likelihood. And even if he did, it would get hung up in the courts, which means come November, the Democrats will control the House. It's increasingly likely that the Democrats could take the majority in the Senate. And Trump at that moment. Tick tock, tick tock. Midnight on Election Day, when all of a sudden. That's clear. Or five weeks later, when all of a sudden, that's clear. Trump's over. He's over. He will never get anything done. He will be investigated for everything. I'll tell you something, this is a little D.C. insider thing that you like, but I was sitting with a guy who's deeply plugged into Dems and what the Dems on the House and the Senate are doing. And there is an initiative right now to identify what investigations the House Oversight Committee will begin the moment they take the majority back. Do you investigate Jared Kushner's businesses? Do you investigate Don and Eric's businesses? Do you investigate Witkoff and Lutnick's and their kids businesses? Do you investigate the corruption at DHS under Kristi Noem and Lewandowski? Do you investigate the corruption under Doge, the stealing of data, the transferring of Social Security data or IRS data into the FBI, et cetera, et cetera, et Cetera? You could do 100 investigations. All you could do around the clock is investigations. But right now, while all this other stuff is happening in little rooms up on the Capitol, they're making lists and Trump knows they're Making lists. And as tough as he is and as much as he thinks, oh, I have immunity, the Supreme Court has my back, he used to think that. He doesn't think it so much anymore. He knows that there are real problems for him in this, problems that may not involve the kind of immunity protection that he thought he had when he came in this time around.

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[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, it's fascinating. He keeps saying, oh, I'm going to be impeached. If we lose the house, I'll be impeached. I'll be impeached. That will be the third time that he will be impeached. It's fascinating. And how would you prioritize any of those investigations? So do you think, I mean, are you hearing from people that the assumption is he will pull out or will he, like so many presidents and prime ministers before him in other countries, get sucked into a longer war than he expected because it's all so much more complicated than he understood? And if he puts Marines into wherever he puts them on Carg island, or he keeps them floating around in the Strait of Hormuz to try and keep it open, what is the point where he then declares that he can, he can pull them back?

[David Rothkopf]

I don't know. I think maybe we should turn to experts like Stormy Daniels on this, who said that it was kind of over fast with him. And this could easily be invasion interruptus because, I mean, he goes in, doesn't turn out the way that he wanted, he pulls out, he tries to change the subject.

[Joanna Coles]

And again, I think there's no real protection. If we're going to stretch your analogy again, a germaphobe like Jeffrey Epstein, why

[David Rothkopf]

did you have to stretch the analogy there?

[Joanna Coles]

Well, because I'm always fascinated by, in particular, men who say they are germaphobes. And then it turns out that at least according to Stormy Daniels, Trump didn't use protection and we know that Jeffrey Epstein didn't because he was always getting diagnoses of. He was always getting STIs.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, there are people out there, not among Daily Beast audience But there are people out there who might go, this is A stretch. Drawing an analogy between Trump and Epstein and Trump and Stormy Daniels and Trump and violating women on a serial basis and foreign policy. And it's wrong to make these analogies. But I have to tell you something, as somebody who's spent the past 30 plus years in the foreign policy world, I don't think it's a bad analogy. He has serially violated people. He is violent. He has a history of being disloyal to people who were his friends or his wives. He is a lot of talk and bluster, but not well known for performance. There is almost no area of his history as a pathetic, disgusting, sex abusing creep that is not a perfect analogy for his behavior as a pathetic, disgusting national security, undermining national interest. Undermining creep.

[Joanna Coles]

Fascinating analogy, David. Not one I've heard anywhere else. And of course I'm proud that we're offering it on the Daily Beast. There are, as we know always with Trump, moments of unexpected humor. There was one such moment with the Japanese Prime Minister on Thursday when he was asked by a member of the Japanese press why he hadn't given anybody a heads up that or he hadn't given any of our allies a heads up that he was going to start bombing Iran. And he made the joke about Pearl harbor and he said, surprise, surprise. Well, you guys know about surprise. Pearl Harbor.

[David Rothkopf]

One thing you don't want to signal too much. You know, when we go in, we went in very hard and we didn't tell anybody about it because we wanted surprise. Who knows better about surprise than Japan? Okay, why didn't you tell me about Pearl Harbor? Okay, right. He's asking me, don't you believe in surprise? I think much more so than us.

[Joanna Coles]

And the Japanese Prime Minister's eyes just opened in, in astonishment. And I was reminded of that John Cleese sketch in Fawlty Towers where he says, don't mention the war. He's a hotelier. I don't know if you know the series, but he plays a foul single ep.

[David Rothkopf]

There are only 13 episodes of Fawlty Towers and I've watched all of them many times.

[Joanna Coles]

Right, the best English comedy ever. And for those who don't know it, John Cleese plays a foul tempered hotelier who abuses all his guests. Some Germans come in into his dining room and he just can't stop making jokes about the Second World War. And of course, when it came out, which was the 70s, it was slightly closer to the war. And yet this phrase about don't mention the war is constantly used in Britain As a kind of. It's a refrain, a British refrain. But one couldn't help thinking, oh, my goodness, he's turned into John Cleese in that moment, saying the Unsayable.

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah, well, I think it's a good analogy. I could debate whether Fawlty Towers or Black Adder or, you know, any of a number of other shows are the best.

[Joanna Coles]

Or the Thick of It. Have you watched the Thick of It?

[David Rothkopf]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

No.

[David Rothkopf]

No. Excellent, excellent. What was the puppet show? What was the.

[Joanna Coles]

The puppet. Oh, Spitting Image. Spitting Image, which was Spitting Image, also very good. But I think Fawlty Towers is the. The father of them all. They don't exist without.

[David Rothkopf]

I have to tell you. But when somebody says, also very good, I think of the scene in Bridget Jones Diary where she's doing this introduction about this book, and she goes, this is the greatest book ever written. And then she sees Salman Rushdie there and she goes, of course, other than yours. You know, yours. And then Jeffrey Archer's there and she goes. And yours also were very good, Lord. Lord Archer. Anyway.

[Joanna Coles]

Lord Archer. Lord Archer.

[David Rothkopf]

In any event, this was a really ugly incident. It is funny, but Basil Falti was an idiot, and Trump is something more than just an idiot. I think Trump is in a period of accelerated decline. I mean, I think, you know, you and I have talked about this a lot, but you look at Trump now and it's like his. It's like his neck is disappearing. His head is slowly. It's setting like the sun into his chest. He gets down like this. For some reason, he sits behind the desk, the Resolute desk of the Oval Office, and somebody's got his chair too low. So the desk is now.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes, that's a very good point. He should be higher up, but he's

[David Rothkopf]

looking like a little old man. His head is down in there, and of course, he's got his blotched hand, he's got his swollen ankles, and his brain is complete mush. And somebody described this incident on the Interwebs by saying that as you look at the video of him saying this, with this new Japanese Prime Minister there, you could see her soul leaving her body. And that is. That's that's kind of what happened, right? He said the worst possible thing, the biggest gaffe. And it led, by the way, to another whole discussion that I had in person and also saw on the web with people going, was this a more embarrassing moment than when George H.W. bush threw up in the lap of a Japanese prime minister?

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[Joanna Coles]

There must be something about the Japanese that triggers American presidents. Perhaps it's their, I don't know.

[David Rothkopf]

But it was worse because George H.W. bush couldn't help himself. And the Japanese prime minister's first reaction was to be thoughtful and to take care of him. In this particular case, she just was like, oh my God, what do I say about this incredibly inappropriate analogy? And what was interesting was she was there sort of to avoid getting in trouble with Trump because he was going to say send ships into the Strait of Hormuzenhelp. She came up with some very soft language. And of course, he couldn't hit too hard because he had made this big mistake. And I think in the midst of laughing at him or commenting on his decline, we miss the fact that when he does this kind of stuff, there's a big national consequence, there's a big geopolitical consequence. America loses face, America loses leverage. He is less able to achieve his goals in the world. And so it's ridiculous, but it's costly. And that is another way to sum up the Trump administration. It's ridiculous, but the costs are unique, unfathomably high. Which is why in the column I wrote for you guys yesterday, I said it's too early to say whether this war is one of the biggest screw ups in US History. But if you're looking for places where America lost or instances where US lost standing, where innocent lives were lost, where there were economic costs, where. And you say, well, there was a Vietnam war, there was the Iraq war, there are all these things. Nothing has happened to American standing in the world as damaging as Donald Trump's five years in office, whether it's Covid, whether it's deficit exploding, whether it's getting rid of science and healthcare, getting rid of science and combating climate change, whether it's this war, the other eight wars that he started, whether it's the embarrassment, the undermining of our allies, the undermining of the rule of law, the attacks on democracy, Americans being shot in the street, all of these things have made America weaker than we have been in a hundred years and are a blow to America greater than anything that any one of our enemies has ever delivered, whether it's fascists or communists, none of them ever did the kind of damage that Donald Trump, president of the United States, has done during his time in office.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. So, David, you have to promise me that when you come back next time, you're going to be a bit more cheerful.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, we talk about Fawlty Towers. We could talk about the Bachelorette.

[Joanna Coles]

We could talk about the Bachelorette, but it feels almost too serious to talk about

[David Rothkopf]

the Iran war.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, not the Bachelorette, but the Bachelorette is. I guess my final question to you is what feels like a decision which I understand was, was led by the Israelis and the opportune intelligence they had about the ability to take out the Iranian leadership. The sort of impulsive way that Donald Trump appears to have led America into war makes it feel like he's going to do something like that around the elections. And I take your point that the SAVE act may not get through, but given what we know about what he's done before and January 6th and pardoning everybody from January 6th and his understanding that he may well get impeached and that there are people making lists on Capitol Hill of the first investigations they want to launch, is this a sort of all or nothing moment for him, do you think? Coming up to the midterms, it's as

[David Rothkopf]

all or nothing as it gets? Because this is not just politically existential, as we've talked about here, this is existential for Donald Trump. That Donald Trump is all he cares about is Donald Trump, is he relevant? Is he getting richer? What do people think think of him? Does he have a future? Does he have any media clout? And the answer is he will have none of those things if this goes the other way. And so he will do anything he can. He doesn't care about the law. He doesn't care about tradition. He doesn't care about how people outside, a handful of people who are in his, you know, bunker with him, think about these things. He's a leader who's losing it. And, you know, I wouldn't, I mean, no one would be surprised if he tried to take over Cuba, tried to make it a state, tried to go after Greenland, sent troops into American cities, tried to have his opponents rounded up and thrown into jail. I mean, look what he said. In the past week, we haven't talked about the way that his FCC commissioner has come out and said, if you report negatively on the warrior traitor and you should lose your license. I mean, that's the most direct assault in the First Amendment in the history of the First Amendment. And that doesn't even make it onto the front page because there is so much other craziness going on. And so that, you know, the prognosis for the sort of stability of the United States and for, you know, any kind of normal behavior out of the president is really bad.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, well, it's Sunday. People need to have a glass of wine. They need to deep breathe, and then they need to get ready to fight another day. David, is that a fair estimate of where we're at?

[David Rothkopf]

Whatever adult beverage you want. Find something. Change the subject. You know, my wife always uses this expression when she was going to school in France of that when things were getting tough that she would go for a walk. She would describe it as needing to change. Lazy day. It's to sort of change your thoughts, change your ideas.

[Joanna Coles]

Yep.

[David Rothkopf]

We all need to change. Lazide.

[Joanna Coles]

And then we have to get back to it. Then we have to get back to it. I don't want anyone at the Beast changing les die les edits. I can't even say it. Change. How do you say ideas in French?

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah, Idez.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, Ide. Because we have to stay on this. We have to stay on this administration and the president and what he's up to. David Rothkopf will be back in a week's time because we're going to start our new podcast every Monday. Start the week with David Rothkopf. What better thing can we promise people?

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah, well, we'll try. If we're gonna start the week with me every week, we'll try every week to have a few things to look forward to in the week and not just reasons to go and pull the covers back over your head.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, good, David, Excellent. See you. Thank you. And we will talk a week on Monday. A president in decline. A war that we have no idea how it's going to end or, in fact, why we got into it. And as David said, the war plan appears to be much like following the path of a drunk as he's staggering out of a bar, wandering into the night. Let's hope that it gets better this week. At least the weather in New York is getting better. That brings cheer to everybody. We will be back tomorrow with Kurt Anderson and on Tuesday, inside Trump's Head. Whatever's going on in there with Michael Wolff, don't forget to leave us a comment. Comment about your favorite part of the conversation. Was it where David was describing the president's declining health or how America has just lost so much standing in the world? Write and give us your comment. And don't forget, as you're doing it, as our first lady would have us say be Beast. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support. Thanks to our production team. Devon Rogerino Ryan Murray Rachel Passer Heather Passaro Neil Rosenhaus this episode is brought

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