Michael Barbaro (2:44)

Of unusual in the sense that we normally think of journalism as writing about problems, not about solutions.

Cara Buckley (2:51)

Right. So this kind of beat is kind of looking at, you know, not the plane crashes, but the planes that are not only successfully landing, but doing it really well. An early story I did was about people taking over old golf courses and rewilding them, which was helping biodiversity. I did stories about roundabouts in Carmel, Indiana, which are the most sustainable types of intersections and reduce emissions. And it was out of that reporting that I did over three years. I thought, there's gonna be a solution in every state. I was hearing about some of them, and I thought, let's set ourselves a challenge and also go and find out a distinct climate or environmental success story in each one of the 50 states.

Michael Barbaro (3:34)

And, Katrin, I remember when you joined the climate and environment desk a few years ago, you were also kind of struggling with how to write about these issues in a way that didn't invoke that same feeling of existential, like what Kara's talking about.

Catrin Einhorn (3:48)

Yeah. I remember setting a goal for myself that I would include a solution in the story somewhere. Even if it was a little bit at the bottom, I would at least say what the solution was in every story that I wrote. I don't know if I totally succeeded, but I tried. But I came to the climate desk to cover biodiversity, so wildlife and ecosystems. I cover extinction. Right. So when I first heard about Cara's series, It was in January 2025, after the election. And I was really excited about it because we knew that President Trump was gonna be dismantling a lot of climate policy, environmental policy, environmental regulation. I was so interested to focus on the things that people will still be doing, are doing, have been doing to address things at the state, local, tribal levels, separately from the federal government. I was really drawn to this series because it seemed like that's where a lot of the action was gonna be happening.

Michael Barbaro (4:46)

So when you set out to do this series, what was the mandate we wanted?

Cara Buckley (4:50)

Win, win, wins.

Michael Barbaro (4:51)

Multiple wins.

Cara Buckley (4:52)

Multiple wins. So it's not just resilience, it's not just adaptation. It's doing things that are reducing greenhouse gas emissions, that are making ecosystems healthier, that are helping restore imperiled species. So we want.

Catrin Einhorn (5:05)

But at the same time, helping human health and saving people money. Right.

Michael Barbaro (5:09)

In a way, basically, you're showing the interconnectedness of our climate to our economy, to our health. With the series, it sounds like.

Cara Buckley (5:15)

Precisely.

Michael Barbaro (5:16)

So at this point, you have reported from all 50 states. Congratulations. You have traversed the country, not just us.

Catrin Einhorn (5:23)

To be fair, it wasn't just the two of us. There was a whole team of people that worked really hard on this series, including colleagues on our desk and on national. 50 plus photographers.

Cara Buckley (5:33)

50 plus photographers and 13 reporters.

Michael Barbaro (5:35)

Okay, that is cool. I want to talk about some of those stories.

Cara Buckley (5:39)

So let's start with each of you.

Michael Barbaro (5:40)

Telling me about one that really stood out to you, maybe because it had that multiple win or downstream effects that you mentioned. Kara, let's start with you.

Cara Buckley (5:48)

Yeah, absolutely. So one of the stories that really popped for me was about a funeral director in northwest Missouri. He lived in one of the most rural counties in the state. His name was Eric Chamberlain. He runs a family funeral business. And he had been worrying for a long time about how his small town was getting smaller. People were moving away and they weren't coming back. And he was just trying to figure out, like, how could he help? Is there anything to reverse the economic misfortunes of the town? And he was at work one day driving a hearse. He was over the border in Iowa, and he saw these giant white blades of a wind turbine. He'd never seen them before. He wanted to pull over, but he was leading a funeral procession. So he did not. But he began investigating it. And he approached the Department of Natural Resources at the state and he said, there's a lot of wind in my. My neck of the woods. Can we maybe look at putting in wind turbines here? He ended up setting in motion this wind energy project. He convinced local farmers to put wind turbines in their fields. At first, there were just four. And Eric told me he distinctly remembers flipping on the switch in 2008 and watching the town's electricity meter running backwards. Rockport announced it was the first community in the country to be producing more electricity from wind energy than what it needed. And this ended up accruing more places in the county started putting up wind turbines. Today there's more than 340 throughout the county. It supplies 50 permanent jobs. And really crucially, the town has a tax revenue base from these wind turbines. $6 million a year. It's more than half of the real estate tax revenue for the county and supplying extra revenue for farmers who have wind turbines too. It fundamentally changed the economy of this county. And it all started with one guy. Wow.

Michael Barbaro (7:52)

I wanna talk about one of the stories that really stood out to me from your series. I'm a dog person. This is a story where dogs are the heroes. Can you guess which one I'm talking about?

Catrin Einhorn (8:01)

Montana.

Michael Barbaro (8:02)

Yes, Montana. You wanna explain what it is?

Catrin Einhorn (8:04)

Yeah, yeah. I knew that I wanted to write about livestock guardian dogs, you know, which are dogs that are bred to protect livestock from predators like coyotes or grizzly bears. Or grizzly bears, in this case. And in Montana, on the plains of Montana, they have not been dealing with grizzly bears for quite some time because we basically eradicated them from that area, you know, they were eradicated from much of the lower 48 states because they're.

Michael Barbaro (8:31)

Dangerous or because they were shot.

Catrin Einhorn (8:32)

There were a lot of predator campaigns in, like, the 1800s to early 1900s. And then laws were put into place, and these predators started rebounding to preserve them, basically.

Michael Barbaro (8:42)

So they wouldn't go extinct.

Catrin Einhorn (8:42)

So they wouldn't go extinct, exactly. And so these grizzlies have been slowly walking back out to the plains of Montana, where there's no real recollection of them in living memory. And one of the things that they've discovered is the wheat and barley farms. And this is, like, really good eating if you're a grizzly bear. It's a really nice, easy source of food for them. And so these farmers, they never had bears raiding their orchards. Now all of a sudden, there's bears stealing their apples and raiding their grain bins. And they're scared of to go outside, certainly to let their children play outside. And in Montana, there's a man named Wesley Sarmento, who at the time was the bear manager for the state wildlife department. So he's getting all these calls from these farmers who are just desperate because these bears keep showing up on their property. And Wesley's trying everything to get them to go away, including trapping them, but that's dangerous. He tried having everyone clean up the grain very well, but it was impossible because they're on a working farm. He tried electrifying the grain bins, which did work, but it was really bad for the farm workers because it was just really awkward and made working a lot harder. And so then he heard about a local farmer whose son found a stray livestock guardian dog, like a Pyrenees type dog. You know, they're often put out, like, with sheep to protect them from coyotes or whatever. And to everyone's surprise, this dog was chasing bears away, including, like, mother bears with cubs, grizzlies. And so Wesley gets with this professor who studies livestock guardian dogs, and they decide to try this study where the dogs were not guarding livestock. They were basically guarding people. They were guarding the farms. They get these big breeds, these Turkish breeds, like kangals and Anatolian shepherds, and they recruit farmers to participate in this little, tiny study. And these dogs were just transformative for the farmers. And the beautiful thing about this story is that these dogs were protecting the people and they were protecting the bears, because if the bears are gonna threaten people's lives and livelihoods, they're gonna get themselves killed. So the dogs were this tool for coexistence, and the families were really in love with the dogs. And more than one farmer said the same thing, which was, this dog would lay down his life for me.

Michael Barbaro (10:58)

What was your takeaway from this whole experience in Montana and the solutions that these people had come up with?

Catrin Einhorn (11:04)

It was really striking how this little idea, you know, cooked up by this bear manager and this ended up having these real results for these farmers and then started spreading to other farms because other farmers in the area were seeing how well it was working, huge reduction in bear visits. And so all of a sudden, they were getting dogs. So that was one thing. And that sort of speaks to the whole series, right, is about how these ideas can spread. The other thing specific to the grizzly bears is that they were really rediscovering this ancient knowledge. Right. Wesley went into the whole thing. He saw less conflict between Native American communities and grizzlies, and he thought that maybe that had to do with all the dogs that kind of roam around on the reservation. And of course, he knew that in Europe and Asia, these large dogs hundreds of years ago were bred to chase bears. Right? And so he talked about how with the loss of these big predators like grizzly bears over the last couple hundred years, you know, we forgot about these methods of coexistence. And now, as they're recovering, we're having to relearn these ancient practices that had been forgotten.

Michael Barbaro (12:23)

We'll be right back.

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Lori Leibovich (12:59)

Well, at the New York Times. There's a lot of misinformation in the health and wellness space, but at the New York Times, no matter what the topic, we apply the same journalistic standards to everything we write about, whether it's the gut microbiome or how to get a good night's sleep, even if we're talking about something like, is it bad for me to drink coffee on an empty stomach? Everything that our readers get when they dig into a well article has been vetted. Our reporters are consulting experts, calling dozens of people doing the research. It can go on for months so that you can make great decisions about your physical health and your mental health. We take our reporting extra seriously because we know New York Times subscribers are counting on us. If you already subscribe, thank you. If you'd like to subscribe, go to nytimes.com subscribe.

Michael Barbaro (13:55)

The two of you set yourselves up to find stories from all 50 states. And I do wonder if, for any reason, some states were more challenging than others. Obviously, certain states, just legislatively, if not culturally, perhaps, are more or less focused on things like climate, on things like environment, on things like conservation, for example. I would imagine if you went to Portland, you would be quite easy to find somebody who would come up with a creative vegan solution to something. By the way, I didn't even know before I read your story that there is such a thing as a vegan tattoo parlor. So that's a tease. Anybody listening should just go read that story. But I wonder, did you find areas of the country that were just harder to find, folks who were talking about any of these issues that we've been discussing?

Cara Buckley (14:41)

Yeah, Portland really boggles the mind in terms of its vegan offerings. It's home to a vegan strip club.

Rachel Abrams (14:47)

Wow.

Cara Buckley (14:48)

Yeah. The dancers are not allowed wear leather or feathers. I don't know if I'm gonna say their motto. It is saucy. Say it, tell it. The motto is, we put the meat on the pole, not on the plate.

Michael Barbaro (15:00)

As I said, creative vegan solutions.

Cara Buckley (15:03)

But some of the states were definitely harder than others. And by the time we were working through the series, towards the end, we had covered so many iterations of how to tackle climate and environmental crises that we didn't wanna do repeats. And so there were challenges. But one of our best stories, one of my favorite stories, came from North Dakota, which it was in our second last batch of stories. And my colleague Satchi Mulkey found a beautiful story there. She found that the Standing Rock tribe was deep in an effort to get EV chargers set up throughout tribal lands.

Michael Barbaro (15:42)

And just remind us quickly, Standing Rock, we all know that name because.

Cara Buckley (15:46)

Because of the Dakota Access pipeline protests, which were national, international. They were trying to stop a pipeline from going through their land. And they had been trying for years as well, concurrent to that, to get off fossil fuels in their tribal lands by embracing all these clean energy projects. And more recently, they've been putting up EV chargers so you can drive. It's part of a inter tribal network, so you can drive electric vehicles without ever having to gas up as you drive through tribal lands.

Michael Barbaro (16:18)

I would Imagine that installing electric vehicle chargers is not an inexpensive project. Especially, if I'm not mistaken, the Standing Rock Reservation, that is in an area where there's a lot of poverty.

Catrin Einhorn (16:29)

Right.

Michael Barbaro (16:30)

That was one of the issues with the Dakota Access Pipeline, is it was cutting through this already sort of vulnerable area. Where did they get the money for this project?

Cara Buckley (16:37)

Right. Well, one major source, it was the Department of Energy grants. They won a $6 million grant to help fund this effort. So that made this possible.

Michael Barbaro (16:46)

And as we spoke about at the beginning of this conversation, however, federal money, federal initiatives for environment and climate are going away or being dismantled. So I just sort of wonder, how does that affect programs like this in the future?

Cara Buckley (17:01)

Yeah, a lot of them are having to put things on hold, you know, so in Fayetteville, Arkansas, where they've reduced methane emissions from the landfill through composting, they had two $20 million climate resilience projects they had to shelve in. But on the flip side, cities are looking at things too, that are under their purview where they can save a lot of money. And that was the case in Pittsburgh when it decided to tackle light pollution.

Michael Barbaro (17:26)

Light pollution, a type of pollution that I wonder how many people actually think of as real pollution.

Cara Buckley (17:32)

People don't think of it as real pollution, but According to a 2023 study, it's growing globally at 10% a year. Many places are overlit. You know, we know that we're not supposed to have exposure to blue light at night. Like we're staring at our computer screens. We know.

Michael Barbaro (17:47)

Yes, we know that.

Cara Buckley (17:47)

But we don't do it. But we don't do it. We know it, we don't do it. But we know it's having impact on our melatonin levels. It's not just impacting us, it's impacting pollinator friendly species and birds and bats. It's also interfering as global light grows, it's interfering with processes in the atmosphere that actually clean the air that need nighttime darkness, according to a study, to literally filter out the pollution. Wow. Yeah. We're also using a ton of energy doing it. And so in Pittsburgh, an astronomy professor there, she wanted her students to see the dark skies at night. And she had been agitating, trying to raise awareness about the benefits of dimmer, softer lights.

Michael Barbaro (18:35)

So what did they come up with?

Cara Buckley (18:36)

So they came up with dimmable streetlights that certain city officials can dim. Dim from their phones. Like you can just swipe across your phone if you're a city official and turn down the intensity of streetlights at night. They also design streetlights that have hoods over them. So instead of the light glaring upwards where it can disorient birds and other flying animals, they're hooded and just direct the light down. And they also save money. The city projects that it'll save $942,000 in energy costs a year, and it'll prevent 12,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions each year.

Michael Barbaro (19:19)

One thing that's really striking me, listening to these stories also, is that we have not talked about politics once. These do not seem like political problems or politicized solutions. These seem like people in their communities trying to figure out how do I deal with a problem that is affecting me specifically. And I would imagine, though, that the folks you talk to, I mean, again, you went to all 50 states. You probably encountered folks who all come from very different perspectives and starting points. So I just sort of wonder what, if anything, there is to say about the politics of reporting on this.

Cara Buckley (19:54)

I'm going to jump in with an example. Oklahoma has restored more streams than any other state. And part of the reason they're able to do that is they were able to convince farmers, especially beef farmers, keep your cows out of the streams. Fence off your cows. So this farmer that had done this, he found that because his cows weren't drinking crappy water, they were putting on more weight. His vet bills were going down. And they were also, because they weren't slip sliding up and down the bank. The whole bank had come back to life with wildlife. Bald eagles were nesting. We didn't talk about politics once. He was talking about doing things that helped his bottom line, helped his cows be healthier, and helped nature. In the same token, it was almost like in a lot of our reporting, I'm not gonna say it transcended politics, but people want clean air, they want clean water. They want beauty around them. And that was like a through line we found in every single state we reported on.

Michael Barbaro (20:49)

I do sort of wonder, like, maybe there was no question in the communities that you visited about what the problem was. But I can imagine that maybe there was debate about what the cause was, especially. Especially as it related to climate. How much did that factor in to your conversations or even, like, how much did the cause of things affect the solutions that people were coming up with for themselves?

Catrin Einhorn (21:13)

I do think it's worth pointing out that sometimes people didn't want to talk about climate change. Like, they almost felt. Sometimes I'd be interviewing people and they'd be scared to even use the term climate change. And, you know, farmers and Ranchers often are experiencing climate change, but they either don't want to use that word or they definitely don't want to talk about it as human caused.

Rachel Abrams (21:33)

Why?

Catrin Einhorn (21:35)

Because it's been politicized?

Michael Barbaro (21:36)

Because they didn't want blowback in their communities or because they didn't believe it.

Catrin Einhorn (21:39)

Or like a combo, I think. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Cara Buckley (21:41)

And there were people who didn't want to talk to us. We had one story lined up that we really loved, we really wanted to tell it, and then they talked amongst themselves and they said, we're really scared of, you know, talking about it because we don't want the federal government to come after us because we're talking about climate and because we did get some funding from the federal government and we don't want to imperil it. So, you know, it was nuanced, it was complicated, oftentimes on the ground.

Michael Barbaro (22:04)

I wonder if your outlook on the future has changed after spending so much time with people who have been thinking about fixes at this hyperlocal level. Like, how are you looking at sort of the broader, bigger, holistic problems that the country or the planet faces?

Cara Buckley (22:25)

Yeah, for me, the answer is really two pronged. The big picture is very scary, as the big picture often is. I mean, the crises we're facing, they're real, they're mounting. They're hitting some people disproportionately compared to others. But then on the local level, as we reported out these stories, as I was seeing all the different ways communities were tackling different aspects of climate change, I couldn't help but feel a little bit hopeful. Like, there are so many people all over the country that are finding ways to work with the planet rather than against it.

Michael Barbaro (23:06)

Katrin, you.

Catrin Einhorn (23:07)

It is really meaningful to spend time with people who are working so hard to make their communities better. And I really enjoyed that personally. But, like, in a broader way, it makes me think of something that Jane Goodall, you know, the famous primatologist and environmentalist who died in October, something that she emphasized a lot, especially toward the end of her life, was that, like, every single day that we live, we are making a difference. Our actions are making a difference, and we get to decide what kind of difference we make. And the people that we interviewed this year for the series just embodied that these people were really living in that spirit.

Rachel Abrams (24:03)

Cara Buckley, Catrion Einhorn, thank you both so much for being here.

Cara Buckley (24:07)

Thank you.

Catrin Einhorn (24:07)

Thank you.

Michael Barbaro (24:21)

We'll be right back.

Vaughn Vreeland (24:26)

Hey, it's Vaughn Vreeland from New York Times. Cooking Baking season is here.

Unnamed News Reader (24:31)

Almost any cake can be turned into.

Cara Buckley (24:33)

A one mole cake.

Michael Barbaro (24:34)

There's nothing better than a freshly baked croissant for my oven.

Catrin Einhorn (24:37)

Oh my God.

Cara Buckley (24:38)

I could eat 5 billion of these.

Vaughn Vreeland (24:40)

That is a brownie.

Catrin Einhorn (24:41)

Don't be afraid.

Michael Barbaro (24:42)

This is so forgiving.

Catrin Einhorn (24:43)

These are deluxe cookies.

Vaughn Vreeland (24:46)

At New York Times Cooking. We've got it all. We've got tips, recipes, videos for whatever you want to bake. So come bake with us@nytcooking.com.

Rachel Abrams (24:57)

Here'S what.

Michael Barbaro (24:57)

Else you need to know today. Zoran Mamdani was sworn in as mayor of New York City just after midnight on Thursday.

Rachel Abrams (25:05)

In his inauguration speech, he vowed to.

Michael Barbaro (25:07)

Represent all New Yorkers, even the ones.

Rachel Abrams (25:10)

Who may view his administration with, quote, distrust or disdain.

Unnamed News Reader (25:14)

If you are a New Yorker, I am your mayor. Regardless of whether we agree, I will protect you, celebrate with you, mourn alongside you, and never, not for a second, hide from you.

Michael Barbaro (25:33)

The speech was peppered with references to.

Rachel Abrams (25:35)

The working class New Yorkers who helped drive Mamdani to City Hall. The mayor called out people who drive.

Michael Barbaro (25:40)

Taxis, clean public parks and serve, as.

Rachel Abrams (25:43)

He put it, biryani and beef patties.

Michael Barbaro (25:47)

While Mamdani has spent months reassuring civic.

Rachel Abrams (25:49)

And business leaders of his pragmatism, he pledged to govern as a democratic socialist, vowing to run the city, quote, expansively and audaciously.

Unnamed News Reader (25:58)

To those who insist that the era of big government is over, hear me when I say this. No longer will City hall hesitate to use its power to improve New Yorkers lives.

Rachel Abrams (26:15)

And Tatiana Schlossberg, an environmental journalist and a daughter of Caroline Kennedy, died on Tuesday. Tatiana recently received a wave of attention for an essay that she wrote in the New Yorker about how she'd been diagnosed with leukemia right after giving birth to her daughter. The essay was about her battle with a rare form of the illness and also her alarm at the changing health care landscape for Americans. But it was also very personal. It was about dying, but it was also about parenting and memory. It begins when you are dying, at least in my limited experience, you start remembering everything. Some of us got to work with Tatiana when she was a reporter at the New York Times. And this week colleagues have been sharing their own memories how hard she worked, her poise and intelligence, and that she was also very funny. Tatiana Schlossberg was 35.

Michael Barbaro (27:24)

Today's episode was produced by Alex Stern and Michael Simon Johnson. It was edited by Patricia Willins with help from Devin Taylor, and was engineered.

Rachel Abrams (27:31)

By Alyssa Moxley and Chris Wood.

Michael Barbaro (27:36)

The Daily's engineers are Chris Wood and Alyssa Moxley with engineering support from Brad Fischer, Matty Masiello, Nick Pittman and Kyle Grandillo. Our theme song is by Ben Landsverk and Jim Brunberg of Wonderly. Our radio team is Jody Becker, Rowan Ni Misto, Diane Wong and Katherine Anderson. Alexandra Lee Young is our deputy executive producer. Michael Benoit is our deputy editor. Paige Cowett is the editor of the Daily. Ben Calhoun is our executive producer. Special thanks to Paula Schumann, Larissa Anderson, Sam Dolnick, and to the founding editor of the show, Lisa Tobin. That's it for the Daily.

Rachel Abrams (28:16)

I'm Rachel Abrams.

Michael Barbaro (28:17)

See you Monday.

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Cara Buckley (28:29)

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Michael Barbaro (28:34)

Let me see that can.

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