Summary of "A Conversation With Vice President Vance" Episode on The Daily

Introduction

In the May 22, 2025 episode of The Daily, hosted by Michael Barbaro and produced by The New York Times, Ross Douthat, a prominent opinion columnist and host of the podcast Interesting Times, provides an in-depth analysis of his recent interview with Vice President J.D. Vance. The conversation delves into Vice President Vance's perspectives on immigration policy, his interactions with the Catholic Church, the role of the judiciary in immigration enforcement, and the political implications for the MAGA movement.

Background of Ross Douthat's Interview with VP Vance

Ross Douthat interviewed Vice President J.D. Vance in Rome, following Vance's participation in the inaugural Mass of Pope Leo XIV—the first American pope. This unique setting underscored the interplay between Vance's Catholic faith and his political responsibilities. Douthat, leveraging his longstanding relationship with Vance, sought to extract candid insights into the administration's strategies and challenges regarding immigration.

Vance on Immigration Policy

Vice President Vance articulated the administration's commitment to enforcing immigration laws, emphasizing the need for a robust deportation infrastructure.

• Goals and Metrics: Vance stated, "My goal is to actually give you more than an hour or so" (03:25), indicating his intention to provide a thorough and honest assessment of the administration's immigration efforts. He highlighted the administration's focus on deporting illegal immigrants as a fulfillment of a political mandate inherited from the previous administration.

• Obstacles: Vance identified two primary challenges:

  1. Lack of Resources for Enforcement: "There are two things that we can do... more law enforcement officers. It requires more of the basic nuts and bolts of how you run a law enforcement regime in the context of deportation" (11:01).
  2. Judicial Interference: "We think that we have established a set of rules and principles that the courts are comfortable with... but we have to respect the rights of migrants" (12:00). Vance expressed frustration with courts impeding deportation efforts, attributing these challenges to judicial overreach.

Vance's Critique of the Judiciary

Vance voiced concerns over the judiciary's role in immigration enforcement, arguing that courts often undermine the will of the American people.

• Separation of Powers and Judicial Overreach: Vance criticized the judiciary for "overturning the will of the American people" (12:23), suggesting that courts are encroaching on legislative and executive domains. He referenced Chief Justice Roberts’ stance, stating, "I thought that was a profoundly wrong sentiment" (15:25), indicating his disagreement with the notion of courts solely checking executive excesses.

• Comparison to European Politics: Ross Douthat drew parallels between the U.S. situation and European skepticism towards mass immigration, noting that "judges throwing up roadblocks to the Trump administration doing deportations are part of that tradition" (19:46). This comparison highlighted the tension between public sentiment and judicial interpretation.

Specific Cases and Moral Risks

A focal point of the interview was the deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland man mistakenly sent to a prison in El Salvador.

• The Kilmar Abrego Garcia Case: Vance defended the deportation, asserting Garcia's involvement with the MS-13 gang: "I think this guy was not just a gang member... he belongs" (33:35). He justified the administration's actions despite judicial rulings challenging the deportation.

• Risks of Wartime Power Analogies: Vance discussed the administration's exploration of existing legal authorities akin to wartime powers: "There's a third track too, which is using existing legal authorities that haven't been used in the past, but we think are there" (21:37). This approach raised concerns about potential abuses and the erosion of due process, reminiscent of wartime measures like those seen post-9/11.

Impact on Voters and the MAGA Movement

The episode also explored the political ramifications of the administration's immigration policies on its voter base.

• Vance's Pitch to Supporters: In addressing disillusioned MAGA supporters, Vance emphasized the administration's intent to make government more responsive: "We came into the administration with what we believed was a mandate from the American people to make government more responsive" (44:25). He acknowledged missteps but maintained that the reforms were necessary for effective governance.

• Potential Political Outcomes: Ross Douthat speculated on the administration's trajectory, suggesting an initial phase of aggressive policy-making followed by stabilization: "If you look at the polls right now, that Donald Trump has recovered some ground in the last few weeks" (46:30). He expressed uncertainty about the sustainability of Vance's approaches and their long-term popularity among voters.

Conclusion

The episode provided a comprehensive examination of Vice President J.D. Vance's stance on immigration, highlighting the delicate balance between enforcing laws and respecting human dignity. It underscored the tension between the executive branch's objectives and the judiciary's interpretative role, all within the context of Vance's Catholic values and the broader political landscape. The discussion concluded with reflections on the future of the MAGA movement and the administration's ability to maintain support amidst its controversial policies.

Notable Quotes

• Ross Douthat to Vance: "I know New York Times listeners are going to be scandalized by, by this line of argumentation..." (10:05).

• Vice President Vance: "It's not because I hate the migrants or motivated by grievance. That's because I'm trying to preserve something in my own country" (08:58).

• Ross Douthat: "I think that you are seeing, and I know this is inflammatory, but I think you are seeing an effort by the courts..." (15:25).

• Vice President Vance: "We actually have done, with some bumps, we've done a good job at making the government more responsive and more efficient" (46:17).

Speaker Attribution

All notable quotes are attributed to Vice President J.D. Vance or Ross Douthat with corresponding timestamps for reference.