Podcast Summary: The Daily – "A Shutdown Where None of the Normal Rules Apply"

Date: October 17, 2025
Host: Michael Barbaro
Guests: Tyler Pager (White House reporter), Katie Edmondson (Congressional reporter), Tony Romm (Economic policy reporter)

Overview

This episode examines the ongoing federal government shutdown—now on its 17th day—which experts agree is unlike any previous one in both tactics and political maneuvering. Michael Barbaro teams up with three New York Times reporters to break down how President Trump and his administration are weaponizing the shutdown for political gain, upending norms, and changing the way government shutdowns impact both politics and ordinary Americans.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A “Weird” Shutdown by All Standards

• Unprecedented Partisan Weaponization
  • The administration is directly blaming Democrats for the shutdown in official government communications (e.g., Treasury Department website states “the radical left has chosen to shut down the United States government in the name of reckless spending” [03:00]).
  • Videos at major airports feature Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem blaming Democrats for travel disruptions [03:10].
• Not Just Rhetoric – Real-World Impact
  • The administration has halted billions in funding to Democrat-led districts and begun firing thousands of federal workers in agencies perceived as “Democrat agencies or programs” (such as health, education, and housing) [03:40–04:10].

Tony Romm [04:14]: “They have taken steps to fire thousands of federal workers who serve at agencies that the president at least believes to be, quote, Democrat agencies or on Democrat programs.”

2. Selective Insulation from Shutdown Pain

• Military and Law Enforcement Paid
  • Despite Congress not approving spending, Trump has reallocated military R&D funds so troops continue to receive pay. The legality and long-term feasibility of this are questionable [05:45–06:54].
• Legal and Political Ramifications
  • While most are relieved the troops are paid, concern grows about the president testing the limits of executive power in budget matters [07:20].

Tony Romm [07:20]: “…even though they like paying the troops, they have this concern about this ends justify the means argument that the administration is sometimes making with the budget.”

• Broader Impact on Federal Workforce
  • Hundreds of thousands of civilian federal employees (especially in health, education, housing) are furloughed without pay or prospect of back pay; some face permanent layoffs. A judge has temporarily blocked some of these layoffs [10:00–11:44].
• Administration Picking Favorites
  • Law enforcement agencies like the FBI and ICE are being selectively kept open, placing Democrats in an uncomfortable position: some agencies favored, others punished [08:48–09:37].

3. White House and Congressional Dynamics

• Lack of Urgency and Traditional Negotiation
  • Unlike past shutdowns, there’s little behind-the-scenes negotiation; the president is focused on unrelated issues like Middle East peace and a planned Asia trip [13:51–14:48].
  • President's approach: “It's up to the Democrats to reopen the government, then we can negotiate healthcare subsidies” [12:12].
  • Both sides are receiving blame, which the White House sees as a win, since historically the president is blamed most for shutdowns [12:12–13:07].

Tyler Pager [13:07]: “When some of this new polling came out … a senior White House official told me that that was good news for the White House. Why? Because historically, the president receives most of the blame for a government shutdown…”

• Congressional Republican Unity & Deference
  • The Republican caucus is deferring to Trump, who withholds direct engagement, signaling the shutdown could end as soon as the president wants it to [18:59].
• Democratic Strategy and Calculus
  • Frustration with perceived executive overreach has strengthened Democratic resolve [19:52–22:14].
  • Democrats see the fight over Affordable Care Act (ACA) healthcare subsidies as central, both as a real policy loss and as a potent campaign issue if subsidies are not restored [19:52–21:50].

Katie Edmondson [21:50]: “They are furious. And they have constituents who are federal workers who have been coming up to them … telling them … I’m laid off. This administration is out of control. Keep up the fight.”

4. Executive Power and Precedent

• Shutdown as an Experiment in Expanding Presidential Control
  • The Trump administration is pushing the limits, using the shutdown as “an unprecedented opportunity to make changes to the budget,” shifting funds between programs at will, and eroding Congress’s traditional control over appropriations [24:55].
  • Some congressional Republicans admit there’s little appetite—or possibility—to reassert legislative primacy [26:04–27:04].

5. How and When Will It End?

• Possible Turning Points
  • If the shutdown produces highly visible public consequences (delayed flights, stopped food stamps, economic distress), pressure may mount [27:31–29:24].
  • If Trump re-engages and decides a political calculation favors reopening, the shutdown is likely to end swiftly [28:24].
• Democratic Off-Ramps & Reluctance
  • Democrats may eventually agree to reopen the government with only a symbolic vote on healthcare subsidies, but most remain opposed absent substantial policy concessions [29:26–30:38].
• Structural Constraints
  • The funds being used to shield pain points like troop or law enforcement pay are not a “forever solution,” and their exhaustion may force action [30:57–31:56].

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Michael Barbaro [01:31]: “I just need to observe that. Saying those names in quick succession makes me feel like you're a family, like maybe a family of tigers. Katie, Tyler, Tony.”
• Tyler Pager [02:22]: “We have never seen a White House or an administration weaponize the federal government against the opposing party the way in which we're seeing it happen right now.”
• Tony Romm [06:54]: “…he has pushed the limits of his ability to reprogram parts of the budget without Congress.”
• Katie Edmondson [21:50]: “These are two normally pretty affable men, having covered them for seven years now. And they are furious … This administration is out of control. Keep up the fight.”
• Tyler Pager [13:07]: “When some of this new polling came out … a senior White House official told me that that was good news for the White House. Why? Because historically, the president receives most of the blame for a government shutdown…”
• Tony Romm [24:55]: “On numerous occasions, [the president] has described the shutdown as a, quote, unprecedented opportunity to make changes to the budget…”
• Katie Edmondson [27:04]: “That was a sobering thing to hear from someone who sits on the Appropriations Committee.”
• Michael Barbaro [30:13]: “That's what we call half a loaf.”
• Tyler Pager [31:22]: “It's hard to exactly predict how much longer they're able to do this. But it's not a forever solution. And so should that run out, that could be a turning point as well.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:31–02:12: Introduction; “family of tigers” moment, outline of the episode’s stakes
• 02:22–04:14: How the shutdown is being “weaponized”—political messaging and targeted cuts
• 05:27–07:53: Shielding of military/law enforcement pay, legal ambiguities, and Democratic response
• 09:37–11:44: Real consequences for federal workers; layoffs and litigation
• 13:51–14:48: Lack of urgency and negotiation in Congress and White House
• 18:59–22:14: Capitol Hill views; Republican deference, Democratic anger and strategy
• 24:55–27:04: Executive branch expansion and diminishing congressional power
• 27:31–31:56: Predictions about when and how the shutdown might end, limitations of budgetary workarounds

Tone & Style

The conversation is urgent, insider-y, and analytical, blending policy explanations with political analysis. The dynamic among the reporters offers clear, accessible breakdowns even as they acknowledge unprecedented developments and uncertainty.

Takeaway

This episode underscores just how far from the “normal rules” this shutdown has moved—both in its duration and in the administration’s bold, norm-breaking tactics. By reshaping how pain is distributed and shifting power dynamics, Trump’s team is setting new precedents, leaving Washington, federal workers, and millions of Americans in uncharted territory. As the shutdown drags on, it remains unclear when political, legal, or practical pressure will finally force a resolution.