Podcast Summary: The Daily

Episode Title: Big Tech Told Kids to Code. The Jobs Didn’t Follow.
Host: Michael Barbaro
Guest: Natasha Singer, New York Times Reporter
Date: September 29, 2025

Overview

This episode investigates the fallout of a decade-long campaign by Silicon Valley titans urging American children to "learn to code"—promising a future of high-paying, high-status tech jobs. Natasha Singer, who has extensively reported on the intersection of tech and education, reveals a harsh reality: a growing cohort of college graduates with computer science degrees now face significant unemployment and underemployment, deeply questioning the promises made by the tech industry.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Broken Tech Job Promise

• Unexpected Reality: Despite the AI boom and decade-long advocacy for coding careers, recent data shows high unemployment among new computer science graduates.
  • “Among recent college grads aged 22 to 27, computer science and computer engineering majors are facing some of the highest... unemployment rates, 6.1% and 7.5%, respectively.” (Natasha Singer, 01:46)
• Comparison: These rates are more than double those for biology majors, contradicting the narrative that coding was a sure path to prosperity.

2. Origins of the Coding Crusade

• Tech Lobbying: Figures like Eric Schmidt (Google), Brad Smith (Microsoft), and Hadi Partovi (Code.org) sounded alarms in the early 2010s, warning of a tech skills gap that threatened the U.S.’s global standing.

  • “They began lobbying members of Congress and state lawmakers to support elevating the status of computer science in schools…” (Natasha Singer, 03:57)

• Marketing Blitz: Code.org’s 2013 viral video featured Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates, casting coding as a “superpower” for anyone.

  “Any kid, whether you’re trying to make a lot of money or whether you just want to change the world, computer programming is an incredibly empowering skill to learn.”
  — Bill Gates in the Code.org video, quoted by Singer (05:42)

• School Integration: Initiatives like the “Hour of Code” and new AP Computer Science courses followed, rapidly expanding coding education access.

3. The Pipeline Worked — At First

• Major Uptick: The number of computer science majors in the U.S. tripled between 2012 and 2024, driven by aggressive promotion and expanded opportunities.
  • “Last year, the number of undergraduates majoring in computer science... topped 170,000 students.” (Natasha Singer, 09:05)
• Elite Success: Graduates from top schools did land lucrative tech jobs; however, this was not the widespread outcome originally promised.

4. Why Did the System Break Down?

• Selective Hiring: Big tech companies remained highly picky, favoring candidates with privileged backgrounds, side projects, and elite credentials—criteria less accessible to lower-income students.

  • “Many of the young students who studied programming... really had no shot at working at big tech firms.” (Natasha Singer, 10:59)

• Pandemic Over-Hiring & Foreign Labor: Overexpansion during the pandemic led to layoffs; companies increasingly hire foreign workers via H1B visas, sometimes for lower wages.

• AI’s Disruption: AI shifts both what companies need (more data centers, fewer entry-level coders) and automates many tasks previously performed by junior developers.

  “Being a software engineer is changing... producing the code yourself is no longer the backbone of some of these jobs.”
  — Natasha Singer, 12:53

5. The Human Toll — Recent Grads Speak Out

• Graduates' Despair: Feedback collected from over 100 new computer science grads includes feelings of discouragement, frustration, and “soul-crushing” disillusionment.
  • “Some of my skills are now worthless. It’s too demoralizing.” (Student response relayed by Singer, 14:12)
• Underemployment: Many with technical degrees are applying for, or accepting, work in fast food, retail, or moving back home post-graduation.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Golden Ticket Myth:

  “It’s no longer the golden ticket. It’s the tarnished ticket.”
  — Natasha Singer (14:32)

• On AI Displacing Entry-Level Jobs:

  “How are you going to have senior developers if you get rid of all the junior developers?”
  — Nathan Spencer, recent CS grad (23:42)

• On the Education–Tech Industry Dynamic:

  “Tech moves a whole lot faster than our education system... there’s inevitably going to be a mismatch here.”
  — Michael Barbaro (27:00) “Tech companies have outsize influence in schools... we have bowed to tech industry education agendas without a lot of public discussion or independent scrutiny.”
  — Natasha Singer (27:25)

Important Segments & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:13 | Statistics on rising unemployment for CS/engineering majors vs. other disciplines | | 03:10 | History of tech industry’s “coding is the golden ticket” campaign | | 05:00 | Code.org’s viral video with industry leaders; marketing coding as accessible and magical | | 06:19 | Schools integrate coding via AP courses and Hour of Code | | 09:05 | Computer science major enrollment triples: the ‘pipeline’ is built and “worked” | | 10:33 | The confluence of factors undermining the coding promise: selective hiring, over-hiring, visas, AI impact | | 13:41 | Graduates’ testimonials: discouragement, underemployment, “tarnished ticket” | | 17:02 | Case story: Nathan Spencer’s journey from coding-enthused high schooler to job-seeking graduate, his struggles and reflections | | 23:42 | Nathan on AI eliminating junior roles and the paradox for talent pipeline | | 25:36 | Is this a temporary problem? Will education adapt to AI, or is tech always ahead? | | 27:25 | The broader lesson: tech’s unique influence over schools, and the need for more independent oversight and deliberation | | 29:43 | Tech pivots to an AI agenda in schools, echoing the earlier coding push | | 30:06 | Closing thoughts – the opportunity for a more mindful approach to tech in education |

Story Highlight: Nathan Spencer

• Raised in suburban Ohio, Nathan embraced coding early, inspired by school programs and Code.org’s videos.

• Excelled in high school (AP CS, side projects) and college (Ohio State, summa cum laude).

• Applied to 90+ internships with virtually no success; eventually secures a non-permanent public sector internship post-graduation.

• Nathan contemplates leaving tech for architecture, showing both the personal and systemic costs of the coding push.

  “When you tell every young person for several years computer science is the place to be... everybody has a computer science degree. So it’s very difficult to feel like you’re competing against this mass quantity of people.”
  — Nathan Spencer (22:51)

The Cycle Continues: AI as the Next Frontier

• Tech is already pivoting from coding to AI in schools, rapidly pushing new curricula and funding (Microsoft, Google) without clear public debate.
• Familiar crisis rhetoric—urgent need to skill students, new job promises—return, underlining a recurring pattern.

Closing Thoughts

Natasha Singer warns against letting the tech industry dictate educational priorities unchecked, echoing the need for greater scrutiny, broader public input, and more agility in matching education to the real, evolving needs of the labor market—not just industry hype.

Further Reading: Natasha Singer's forthcoming book, Coding: Big Tech's Battle to Remake Public Schools (mentioned at 30:15).

This summary covers the substantial content of the episode, omitting advertisements, transition music, and outro material.