Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics

Summary

The Daily: Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics
Release Date: January 2, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of The Daily by The New York Times, hosts Sabrina Tavernisi and Matt Flegenheimer delve into the intricate relationship between UFC President Dana White and former President Donald Trump. Titled "Dana White, Donald Trump and the Rise of Cage-Match Politics," the episode explores how the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) evolved from a fringe sport into a significant cultural and political force, largely through the strategic alliances and mutual support between White and Trump.

---

UFC’s Evolution and Dana White’s Leadership

The narrative begins with an overview of the UFC’s transformation over the past two decades. Matt Flegenheimer explains the origins of the UFC as a mixed martial arts (MMA) league struggling for legitimacy and audience acceptance:

"UFC stands for Ultimate Fighting Championship. It's the sort of primary promotion associated with mixed martial arts. It is a cage fighting enterprise which combines elements of kickboxing, wrestling, jiu jitsu into this kind of very painful medley of activities in what they call the Octagon, this eight-sided cage where two fighters convene and beat each other up over a course of rounds." [04:01]

Dana White's entry into the UFC in the late 1990s marked a turning point. Despite the sport's negative reputation, White saw potential and secured funding to purchase the UFC, allowing him to implement his vision for growth and mainstream acceptance.

---

The Formation of the White-Trump Alliance

A pivotal moment in the UFC’s ascent was the appearance of Donald Trump at a UFC event in November 2000. President-elect Trump attended a fight at Madison Square Garden, signaling his early support and establishing a long-term friendship with Dana White:

"President elect Trump, really fresh off his election win, attends a fight at Madison Square Garden in New York City. Trump is sort of waiting in the wings with his entourage and walks out almost as if he is the fighter making his way to the world." [04:44]

This event laid the foundation for a symbiotic relationship where Trump provided legitimacy and high-profile visibility to the UFC, while White offered Trump access to a dedicated and influential audience.

---

UFC’s Role in Trump’s Political Campaigns

The alliance deepened during Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign when Dana White agreed to speak at the Republican National Convention. This endorsement was risky for White, as it risked alienating half of the UFC’s diverse fan base. However, White’s support demonstrated his loyalty and strategic acumen:

"I've been in the fight business my whole life. I know fighters, ladies and gentlemen, Donald Trump is a fighter, and I know he will fight for this country." [15:26]

White's presence at the convention not only showcased his personal loyalty to Trump but also highlighted the UFC’s growing political significance.

---

Cultural and Political Capital Through Strategic Maneuvers

The UFC capitalized on the COVID-19 pandemic by being the first major American sports league to resume events, positioning itself as a symbol of resilience and align with Trump’s pro-reopening stance. This move solidified the UFC's place within the cultural and political landscape:

"And it's been building for some time. But this is the moment that really establishes White as a MAGA superstar of the highest order in a way that even the convention speech didn't." [19:02]

Dana White leveraged this period to further intertwine the UFC with the MAGA movement, attracting a demographic that felt disenfranchised and aligning the UFC with broader political sentiments.

---

Case Study: Bud Light Sponsorship Controversy

A significant example of the UFC’s political influence is the Bud Light sponsorship controversy in 2023. Bud Light faced backlash from the political right for a promotional campaign featuring a transgender influencer. Dana White publicly supported Bud Light, aligning the UFC with conservative values and mitigating the backlash:

"Bud Light is the right move for me. They're exactly who I want to be with right now. And we are very aligned as far as core values go." [22:32]

White's endorsement, coupled with his interactions with conservative media figures like Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, helped Bud Light recover from the backlash. This maneuver showcased White's ability to navigate and influence the intersection of sports, culture, and politics effectively.

---

Impact on Trump’s Campaign and Broader Political Strategy

The UFC’s alignment with Trump proved instrumental in reaching a demographic that traditionally disengages from political discourse. By tapping into the UFC’s audience, Trump accessed younger, predominantly male voters who resonated with the UFC’s values and Dana White’s influence:

"The Trump campaign sees a lot of voters who don't necessarily engage with politics... They're going after people who often skew younger and male... A lot of those people watch the UFC, and a lot of people in that world respect Dana White's opinion." [24:22]

This strategy was part of a broader effort to mobilize voters who felt overlooked by traditional political narratives, thereby strengthening Trump's electoral base.

---

Conclusion: The Future of Cage-Match Politics

The episode concludes by reflecting on the enduring alliance between Dana White and Donald Trump, emphasizing the UFC's role as a cultural and political powerhouse. Both White and Trump have demonstrated a keen ability to anticipate and shape cultural trends, ensuring that the UFC remains a critical player in the evolving landscape of American politics and society:

"America has become so soft. If you have even this much savage in you, everything out there right now is for the taking." [28:42]

This statement encapsulates the shared worldview that drives the partnership between White and Trump, suggesting that the UFC will continue to influence and reflect the cultural and political zeitgeist.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Dana White on UFC’s Appeal:
  "You never know. It's two men in a cage. It's man versus man, beast versus beast. I really enjoy the special moments where people, like, get knocked out. It's live action. It lets you know who you are." [02:05]

• Dana White on Bud Light Sponsorship:
  "Bud Light is the right move for me. They're exactly who I want to be with right now. And we are very aligned as far as core values go." [22:32]

• Dana White Reflecting on UFC’s Success:
  "The fact that the man took over the sport when everyone thought it was gonna go downhill... UFC really allows people to speak their minds, and I know Uncle Dano kind of allows that. He's the goat." [15:22]

• Matt Flegenheimer on UFC’s Cultural Significance:
  "Its really a microcosm of life. It's this sort of binary thing. There are winners and losers, and you can sort of see how that maps onto his political worldview." [26:25]

• Final Reflection:
  "I think White and Trump both saw around the corner here about what the UFC could become in the cultural and political space that it has become. And there's no reason to think now that it will be any less important." [28:42]

---

Key Takeaways

• Strategic Alliances: Dana White’s relationship with Donald Trump has been pivotal in transforming the UFC from a niche sport into a significant cultural and political entity.

• Cultural Capital: The UFC serves as a vital platform for reaching and influencing a specific demographic, particularly disaffected men who resonate with the sport’s values.

• Political Influence: Through endorsements and strategic maneuvers, the UFC has cemented its role within the political landscape, aiding Trump’s campaigns and broader political strategies.

• Future Implications: The ongoing partnership between White and Trump suggests that the UFC will continue to play a crucial role in shaping cultural and political narratives in the United States.

This episode of The Daily provides an in-depth analysis of how sports and politics intertwine, using the UFC’s rise and its alliance with Donald Trump as a case study for the emergence of "cage-match politics."

Transcript

[Andrew Osorkin]

I'm Andrew Osorkin, the founder and editor of DealBook. It's a daily business and policy report from the New York Times. Every year, I interview some of the world's most influential leaders at the Dealbook Summit. It's a live event in New York City, and I've had some fascinating and unfiltered conversations which you can listen to in our limited series podcast. We've got a new season out and it is packed with more news making moments, figures like Jeff Bezos, Bill Clinton, Serena Williams, and Sam Altman. Listen to the Dealbook Summit wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Hey, it's Sabrina. Before we get started, a few details about a major developing story that's still being pieced together. According to investigators, in the early hours of Wednesday morning, an armed man driving a rented pickup truck deliberately plowed into a crowd celebrating New Year's Eve in New Orleans, killing at least 15 people and injuring dozens more. In a short speech last night, President Biden said that the driver, a US army veteran who died during the attack, had been inspired by the Islamic State and had expressed a clear desire to kill. Investigators said that they are still trying to determine whether he had acted alone or had any help from individuals or a group. These are the key facts we know for now. We'll be following developments over the next few hours, and we'll bring them to you as soon as we can. Okay, here's today's show.

[Olivia Natt]

This is Daily producer Olivia Natt. I am in Las Vegas outside an arena where tonight there is going to be a UFC championship fight. I am notoriously squeamish, so I'm really excited to talk to people about why they like this sport, why they're here tonight, and I'm gonna go talk to some of them. It is a microphone. Do you have a couple of minutes to answer some questions?

[Dana White]

Oh, hell, yeah.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Let's get some questions going.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Let's get some questions going.

[Olivia Natt]

Why are you guys here tonight? What do you like about watching fights?

[Dana White]

The combat is.

[Eric Kim]

Love it.

[Dana White]

Like, you never know. It's two men in a cage. It's man versus man, beast versus beast. I really enjoy the special moments where people, like, get knocked out. It's live action. It lets you know who you are.

[Olivia Natt]

I've never been to a fight before. What should I expect tonight?

[Dana White]

You're gonna go, nice. Expect somebody's gonna get knocked out, choked out. You know, anything can happen in this octagon. You will enjoy this. I promise you, you will enjoy this.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

From the New York Times. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is the Daily.

[Olivia Natt]

All right, I'm walking over to the Octagon and it' it sounds like the first fights have just kicked off.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Kick his point, baby.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

You can do it.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Over the past five years, one sports league has gained popularity faster than any other. The Ultimate Fighting Championship or ufc. Today, my colleague Matt Flegenheimer on the man behind the league and how his longtime friendship with Donald Trump has transformed what was once a fringe sport into.

A cultural and political powerhouse.

It's Thursday, January 2nd. Matt Fligenheimer, Sabrina Tavernese, welcome to the show.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So, Matt, we're going to talk today about ufc, but I have something to admit to you.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

By all means.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

I've actually never watched it, so let's start with the basics. Matt, tell us what the UFC is.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Sure. UFC stands for Ultimate Fighting Championship. It's the sort of primary promotion associated with mixed martial arts. It is a cage fighting enterprise which combines elements of kickboxing, wrestling, jiu jitsu into this kind of very painful medley of activities in what they call the Octagon, this eight sided cage where two fighters convene and beat each other up over a course of rounds.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Okay, that probably explains why I've never heard of it.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

It also has been one of the fastest growing sports, huge audience internationally, was acquired for $4 billion in 2016, has only grown since, not just in the sports world, but culturally and politically as well, and really has a kind of crowning moment in November.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

And what happens in November?

[Matt Flegenheimer]

So President elect Trump, really fresh off his election win, attends a fight at Madison Square Garden in New York City. Trump is sort of waiting in the wings with his entourage and and walks out almost as if he is the fighter making his way to the world.

[Dana White]

Famous Octagon flanked by UFC CEO Dana White, 45, soon to be 47.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

President elect Donald Trump, President and CEO of the UFC. Dana White is to his left. Elon Musk is with him. Mike Johnson is with him. Robert Kennedy alongside various cabinet members to be if he has his way.

[Dana White]

It's so loud in here.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

It is so loud and the crowd just loses its mind.

[Dana White]

It's always loud when he comes here. But now that he's won, now that he's the President again. Oh, my God.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

And Trump is taking this all in. This is obviously a very friendly room for him and he's chosen this as a major post election victory lap space.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Yeah.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

And he got the reception that he wanted.

[Dana White]

We're going to lead the greatest comeback in American history under Donald Trump's latest.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

So they're showing this video on the Jumbotron above the octagon showing various triumphant moments for the President elect.

[Eric Kim]

God spared my life for a reason.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

And as the video ends, you see the number 45 flash across the screen, and then it moves to 47, showing his presidency and his presidency to be okay.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So this is an extraordinary scene, and I want you to tell me, Matt, how we got here. Like, how did Trump choose a UFC fight for his coming out party as President elect?

[Matt Flegenheimer]

You know, I think it's actually a pretty natural choice for Trump. If you think about the arc of Trump in the UFC across really 20 plus years at this point. And that arc begins with Dana White. White has been a close friend and ally of Trump's, and they've kind of risen in parallel, and they've kind of developed an understanding, not just as people who are in business who are transactional, but I think beyond that, there's a sort of visceral understanding mutually about what it means to succeed in this American moment without having kind of establishment forces behind you every step of the way. I think White understands that about Trump, but I think Trump understands that about White.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Okay, so tell me about Dana White.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

So he's from Boston. He sort of bounces around in his youth. He's kind of a serial scofflaw by his own account. He's a hotel bellman for a bit, Trains to be a boxer, becomes a boxing trainer, winds up moving to Vegas, continues training and eventually managing fighters, and really becomes sort of enthralled with the UFC. And this is the sort of mid to late 1990s. It's a moment where the UFC is very much on the fringe. It is a young, fledgling league with a quite bad reputation across a lot of the American mainstream.

[Dana White]

We're live from the Mile High city of Denver, Colorado. Eight of the deadliest fighters in the world will meet in a no holds barred combat.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

And as a viewing experience, the sort of production values were low. The venues were pretty grungy. This was not Saturday night at Madison Square Garden.

[Dana White]

Be forewarned. There are no rules. No judges scores.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

The UFC's own tagline for a time was, there are no rules. That was sort of the pitch.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So really bloody.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Bloody and lawless.

[Dana White]

Eight street tough warriors wage combat in a battle where anything can happen and probably will.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

John McCain calls it human cockfighting. States are banning it by the dozen. Venues don't want to host fights. But despite all of that, you know, Dana White really sees some potential in the ufc. And he sees a sort of appetite in the American audience and beyond for a level of violence through sports that I think the expectation was prior to that maybe people didn't quite have the stomach for.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Okay, so he sees a path to it, despite the fact that people like John McCain say it's human cockfighting and states are banning it.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Yeah, I think to White, this is an opportunity. So what he does is talks to a couple of high school buddies from a family of casino operators and convinces them to put up $2 million to buy the UFC at this moment, when it's certainly not a premium property, and to put him in charge and give him a stake and really let him kind of execute the vision that he has for what this sport can become.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So what happens? Given that no one really wants to.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Host the thing, they find someone who does want to host the thing or is at least willing.

[Dana White]

Welcome to magnificent Atlantic City, New Jersey.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Somebody with a long history of hosting fights, at least boxing.

[Dana White]

The spectacular Trump Taj Mahal.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

And that is the future president and President elect Donald Trump Gathered here in.

[Dana White]

This building here tonight, some of the greatest Y2K gladiators in the world, set.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

In February 2001 at a moment when, as White would say later, nobody was taking them seriously. Donald Trump took them seriously.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So in this grand love story of Dana White and Donald Trump, this fight in Atlantic City is really the meet cute moment.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

This is the moment. And obviously, White was grateful to be hosted by Trump, to have the sort of legitimacy that came with having a major fight night at a Trump venue at that time. With that said, this is not an overnight success by any stretch. They're losing money. It's not taking off in any kind of rocket ship way. But you can see some sort of early signs that Trump and White understand each other. Trump invites one of the fighters onto the Celebrity Apprentice for a season, and reality TV really plays a substantial role in the UFC's arc.

[Dana White]

On this season of the Ultimate Fighter.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

In 2005, there's a reality show, the Ultimate Fighter, that debuts.

[Dana White]

Do you want to be a fighter? That's the question. That's why I'm here. It's not about living in a house. It's about, do you want to be a fighter? And only you know that.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

It really helps drive interest and complete the picture of these fighters for viewers. They get attached to these sort of biographies, these compelling stories. Apparently, Diego Sanchez is doing some kind of yoga bodybuilding pose, down with baby oil all over his body.

[Dana White]

You don't want to face this in.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Ring, that's just not my style. And it does really help the fights themselves get a sort of wider audience and gain more traction.

[Dana White]

What a war between these two guys. So you want to be an ultimate fighter. Five seconds. What a finish.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

To such an extent as the UFC grows, that Trump gets a little jealous. What does he do? So, in 2008, Trump announces he's investing in his own rival mixed martial arts enterprise. And, you know, he's trying to sort of harness some of the energy that the UFC is clearly channeling. But his group is not long for this world, and his operation collapses pretty quickly. But it's really a testament to the Trump White friendship. The two of them are not necessarily the type to take kindly to business threats in their respective fields, and they stay on very good terms here. And in 2011, the UFC signs a big TV contract. Trump sees an article about it, takes it, writes a message on it, and sends it to White saying, you know, congratulations. I always knew you were gonna do it.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Like, he's a proud mom or something.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

And sort of, you know, it's both a compliment and self regarding. About his own instincts that Trump. Trump saw it coming as well.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Yeah, he spotted it too.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

They spotted it together.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Okay. So clearly, these two have a lot in common. Right. They're businessmen. They both have this reality TV thing. They both see the potential in this very violent sport. What about their politics?

[Matt Flegenheimer]

You know, in some ways, they approach politics from kind of a similar vantage point. If you think about Trump before he was president, it's very transactional, not ideological. You know, frankly, as the commissioner of a league that's trying to appeal to as many people as possible. In general, those sorts of figures wouldn't necessarily want to engage in partisan politics because the country is pretty evenly split, and you're trying to cast a wide net.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

You would alienate half your audience.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Sure. But then Trump runs for office in 2016, and he has a request when he becomes the Republican nominee, which is that Dana White speak at his convention that summer, which obviously would place him very much in the middle of partisan politics in a way that had not been a part of his profile previously. He has said he was advised against doing it for all the reasons you would expect, that it would alienate potential sponsors, it would alienate fans.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So it was kind of high stakes for him because potentially it could alienate half his audience.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Sure. But he does speak at that convention. What's up, gop and White himself leaned into the idea that it was sort of strange that he was there I'm.

[Dana White]

Sure most of you are wondering, what are you doing here?

[Matt Flegenheimer]

You're probably wondering, what are you doing here? Was kind of his opening.

[Dana White]

And I wanted to show up and tell you about my friend Donald Trump, the Donald Trump that I know.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

And he talked about the chance that Trump took on him in the UFC in 2001, his loyalty, his fighter instincts. He was the sort of validating voice that Trump wanted to have in that moment.

[Dana White]

Let me tell you something. I've been in the fight business my whole life. I know fighters, ladies and gentlemen, Donald Trump is a fighter, and I know he will fight for this country.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So what's the effect of all of this? Like, does it actually have repercussions on his business?

[Matt Flegenheimer]

The sky doesn't fall. Right. And I think that's an important lesson that he learns in that moment. He goes out on this limb. He's advised against doing something much in the way that he was in his telling, advised against giving it all to the UFC at the beginning. In this case, Dana White gives the speech at the rnc. It goes fine. And as a matter of fact, Trump's elected president, and now he knows the president, right?

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So the lesson is, go with your gut.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Trust your gut. And I think the lesson was that Dana White believed then and believes now that he knows his audience better than anyone. And to him, that audience respects somebody who will do what he believes in or at least project that he is doing what he believes in. He has been somebody with an antenna for this stuff and for knowing where his audience would be across the decades.

[Eric Kim]

If you're in section 11, that'll be on your left. Section 12 will be on your right.

[Olivia Natt]

Do you follow Dana White at all?

[Dana White]

Oh, hell yeah. I love Dana White.

[Olivia Natt]

What do you love about him?

[Dana White]

The fact that the man took over the sport when everyone thought it was gonna go downhill. You know, some people, rich, famous people, are certain level. They're. They're higher class. They look down on people. He's, like, in it, so he knows what real people want. I feel like UFC really allows people to speak their minds, and I know Uncle Dano kind of allows that. He's the goat.

[Olivia Natt]

Okay, end of round one. Going into round two.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

We'll be right back.

[Unknown]

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[Dana White]

I use New York Times cooking at least three to four times a week.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

I love sheet pan bibimbap. It said 35 minutes, it was 35 minutes.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

The cucumber salad with soy, ginger, and garlic. Oh, my God. That is just to die for.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

This turkey chili has over 17,000 five star ratings. So easy, so delicious.

[Andrew Osorkin]

The instructions are so clear, so simple.

[Dana White]

And it just works.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Hey, it's Eric Kim from New York Times Cooking. Come cook with us. Go to NYT cooking.com.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Okay, so white backs Trump, and as you said, the sky doesn't fall, and in fact, it boosts his status and his league status. What's the next thing he does that really propels this league?

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Well, it comes during a pretty dark time across the sports landscape and otherwise. And it's Covid, obviously. Sports are sort of shut down across the board. People are thirsting for any kind of content of any sort.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Right. Because remember, it was Covid. Everything shut down.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Everything shut down.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

NBA stopped playing.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

ABA stopped playing. And there is this real appetite to get something fresh and live on the air. And Dana White sees an opportunity. He's trying to find workarounds, and he finds it. In Florida, an empty arena in Jacksonville, the UFC becomes the first major American pro sporting event in the COVID age to reopen. And certainly the expert consensus and the medical consensus was that this was not necessarily a fantastic idea. He is sort of bulldozing through that concern. And it was a moment when obviously the sports landscape was barren. He had a pretty captive audience, and it was really a showcase opportunity for the ufc.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So in part, it catches on because nothing else is on.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

That's a huge piece of it. But it's interesting. White, obviously, for years, despite the speech in 2016 at the convention, had kind of positioned the UFC as the apolitical sport, in contrast to what he and I think a lot of UFC fans saw as kind of an overt intrusion of politics and protests and social justice initiatives into the NBA, the NFL. The UFC was supposed to be sort of insulated from that. Of course, in this case, Covid became a great piece of the culture war. And by opening reopening at all, that's a political stance and certainly was aligned with where Trump was in that moment as he was pushing for a kind of broader reopening of the economy.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So suddenly there starts to be some real overlap between the UFC and MAGA world.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Absolutely. And it's been building for some time. But this is the moment that really establishes White as a MAGA superstar of the highest order in a way that even the convention speech didn't. And you see the Trump orbit and the UFC orbit, the white orbit kind of merge. And this cultural moment starts to form around disaffected men who feel slighted, who feel like the world has not been conspiring in their favor for some time.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

This is like the manosphere.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

The manosphere. And these fights become a gathering place for the leading lights of that intellectual space, this sort of amorphous right wing, anti woke, anti establishment sentiment. And in his period of not being the president anymore, starting in 2021, Trump is kind of one of those figures. He becomes somebody who shows up at these fights, frankly, in moments of sort of public turmoil for himself. One of the first public appearances he makes in his period of being kind of a pariah after January 6 in 2021, is at a UFC fight.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Interesting, huh?

[Matt Flegenheimer]

After he's indicted, he goes to a UFC fight. It becomes a sort of balm, and he's walking in and getting a giant ovation among a lot of his supporters. And that obviously expanded over the course of these four years in between his terms.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So back to your larger point. This is more than a sports league.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Absolutely. And White has accumulated a ton of cultural capital and political capital from being this grand figure in that space. And he knows when and how to use it. And I think the most interesting example of this in recent times is with Bud Light.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Like the beer?

[Matt Flegenheimer]

The beer. Bud Light, the beer. Are you familiar with Bud Light as a brand, Matt? Keep going.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Hi. Impressive carrying skills. Right? I got some Bud Lights for us.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

So in the spring of 2023, you see the beginnings of a huge backlash to Bud Light on the political right.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

This month, I celebrated my day 365 of womanhood, and Bud Light sent me possibly the best gift ever, a can with my face on it, over a.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Promotion they did involving a transgender influencer.

[Dana White]

Let me say something to all you and be as clear and concise as possible. Fuck Bud Light and Anheuser Bush.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

So across conservative media, people are just hammering Bud Light. Bud Light has just released a commemorative can celebrating a man who dresses up like a woman.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

This is another example of woke corporations and how they completely ignore everything that they really stand for and the people that actually buy their product.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

I just don't understand that as a marketing tool. And Dana White is in the process of negotiating a Beer sponsorship with Anheuser Busch, Bud Light's parent company. And he's in a tough position because he's sort of stands accused of selling out for associating with Bud Light after this major backlash. But obviously the sponsorship is lucrative for the ufc. Today's guest is an entrepreneur. He's a renegade. He's a business mogul, and he is the head of the ufc. So what he does is he sets about trying to un. Cancel Bud Light.

[Dana White]

You know, people are talking shit now, sellout and all the shit that they'll fucking say. Believe me, I'm the furthest fucking thing from a sellout. Yeah.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

And what White does is call himself as a character witness.

[Dana White]

Bud Light is the right move for me. They're exactly who I want to be with right now. And we are very aligned as far as core values go.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

He goes on with Tucker Carlson, with Sean Hannity, with Charlie Kirk.

[Dana White]

If you consider yourself a patriot, you should be drinking fucking barrels of Bud Light.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

The message being, essentially, if Bud Light wants to do business with me, like that tells you all you need to know. And privately, he is back channeling with a lot of these figures. Kid Rock, who had been a part of this effort to protest Bud Light, he is talking to the Anheuser Busch CEO in White's green room, and they're sort of talking it out and finding a way forward. And then Trump himself, even months after that, is continuing to sort of hammer Bud Light on social media. And White speaks to him on the phone. And after that phone call, Trump posts a sort of follow up, saying that the company deserves a second chance. Going through a lot of talking points that echo White's. And lo and behold, about a year after boycotts began and a few weeks after Trump has backed down, I attend a fight in Miami and the fighters are out there bleeding all across the Bud Light logo on the canvas. So White gets what he wants. It's hard to see another figure, say, to get that intersection of culture and politics and sports who could have pulled off what White pulled off here.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So here you have Dana White convincing Trump to backtrack. And it really just shows how much power White has in this relationship, which is kind of pretty surprising based on everything we know about Trump.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Absolutely. And they're both well positioned to do each other some good. And certainly Trump can call in White to help him in moments of political need. And we see that in this last campaign.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So what happens in the campaign exactly with White?

[Matt Flegenheimer]

A couple of things. I mean, again, he's speaking at the convention so that's the sort of explicit, overt endorsement, and nobody was surprised he was there this time. But the sort of broader kind of role he plays in this is as this kind of master of ceremonies White. For this entire universe of people, the fights become gathering places, and he can make connections between Trump and these figures in the manosphere, whether that's Joe Rogan, whose podcast he ends up doing, the Nelk Boys, his other podcasters, Theo Vaughn. White is in the middle of all of that, a kind of chief ambassador moving between Trump and these worlds. And the Trump campaign, as part of its strategy, sees a lot of voters who don't necessarily engage with politics, who are not following the news closely, a really target demographic for them. They're going after people who often skew younger and male, who are not necessarily ideological or don't sort of fall on ideological lines on the issues in the way that you would expect traditionally. And a lot of those people watch the ufc, and a lot of people in that world respect Dana White's opinion. And so Trump is appearing on a lot of these podcasts. He's speaking to these audiences.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Right. And just to remind people, this was the Holy Grail demographic. Right. Because in part, it was so hard to reach the people who don't ordinarily follow politics and really don't necessarily vote that much.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Yeah. And it's been traditionally hard to break through to that demographic. And the Trump campaign had a lot of success.

[Eric Kim]

Welcome to UFC Unfiltered.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Matt and I. The Trump campaign is really trying to meet them where they are. I mean, Trump did a UFC fan podcast and wasn't talking about any kind of policy. Are you good at making picks?

[Eric Kim]

No matter how many fights I watch.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

I'm terrible at making picks.

[Eric Kim]

I'm always wrong. Well, this. This sport is interesting. Like, I watched Usman. I think he's a terrific guy, by the way. Terrific person.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

This was a guy talking about fights and having actually the really interesting level of recall about specific fights and the history of it, the intricacies of the ufc.

[Eric Kim]

You know, I look at, like, UFC or boxing or any of these things, even sports generally. It's sort of a microcosm of life.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

It's actually about as close to contemplative as I've heard him get. He gives this answer, talking about fights, that it's sort of a microcosm of life. It's this sort of binary thing. There are winners and losers, and you can sort of see how that maps onto his political worldview.

[Eric Kim]

You know, it's so Interesting. But the nice part, it's over in a period of a half an hour, 45 minutes, it's all over, and you sort of see a decision, but it's a little bit like life when you think about it.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

And obviously, Trump wins the election in November, and he and his team are well aware of how integral that strategy was and White's role in it. And on election night, after midnight, as he's giving his victory speech, we also.

[Eric Kim]

Have a man, Dana White, who has.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Done some job, or does he pull up on stage to the microphone to give some remarks, but Mr. Dana White. And White proceeds to give a speech that is not surprising to anybody who's listened to him or Trump talk about these recent years. It's heavy on the sort of expert consensus being wrong.

[Dana White]

This is what happens when the machine comes after you. What do.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

And he shouts out these figures.

[Dana White]

I, I, I want to thank some people real quick. I want to thank the Nel boys.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Aiden Ross, from this universe, he sort of presides over in some ways.

[Dana White]

And last but not least, the mighty and powerful Joe Rogan.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So, once again, these two men are validated in their instincts to buck the system, like to go with their gut, really, in the most extraordinary way, and, and in the end, kind of shock the establishment.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Absolutely. I think both of them have learned that lesson time and again in their public lives. That expert consensus is often nonsense, that their instincts are to be trusted. What you've seen, I think, from both of them is a sort of recognition that they can be their purest, basest selves and that that would be rewarded.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

So these two have learned all the same lessons up to this point. But I guess, Matt, looking forward, you know, if politics, as we know, is downstream from culture, and Trump is clearly identifying the UFC as a very valuable part of culture to him politically, then what can we learn about where we're headed? Looking at where the UFC is now, what does it tell us about the future?

[Matt Flegenheimer]

I think White and Trump both saw around the corner here about what the UFC could become in the cultural and political space that it has become. And there's no reason to think now that it will be any less important. It'll probably be even more important. And the way that the two of them see the world mean that their worldview will matter quite a bit. And Wed has really articulated his worldview quite clearly. To quote him, America has become so soft. If you have even this much savage in you, everything out there right now is for the taking.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Wow. And that sounds like Trump.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

There's a reason they're friends.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

Matt, thank you.

[Matt Flegenheimer]

Thank you. Sabrina.

[Olivia Natt]

Why do you think the violence appeals to you?

[Dana White]

I just like how brutal it is. It's different than boxing. It's very relaxing to me because of the violence of it. I could watch it every day.

[Olivia Natt]

Why do you think this is a thing that men are so into?

[Dana White]

I feel like it's just embedded in every guy, like, every. Every guy's DNA. It's like instinctual type shit, right? Like, I mean, this is what we used to do, like, hundreds of years ago. You know, we were gladiators. You know, it's just part of us.

[Olivia Natt]

I've never seen a head do that, that before.

[Dana White]

I like the fact that a man can be a man and he can put his hands on another man and not go to jail.

[Olivia Natt]

Do you feel like it's an outlet for something you don't get to express in other areas of your life?

[Dana White]

Hell, yes. Yes. You can let the rage out and not get in trouble. So 100%.

[Sabrina Tavernisi]

We'll be right back.

Here's what else you should know today. Ukraine's leader has followed through on his threat to shut down the last major pipeline that carried natural gas from Russia to Europe. By closing the pipeline, Ukraine hopes to undermine Russia's ability to fund its war against Ukraine and use energy as a weapon against Europe. Before it stopped operating on Wednesday, the pipeline had brought Russia more than $6 billion in revenue a year. Ukraine's energy minister called the closure a quote, historical event. Today's episode was produced by Nina Feldman, Olivia Natt, Sydney Harper and Claire Tennisketter, with help from Shannon Lynn, Rachelle Banja and Asta Chaturvedi. It was edited by Lexi Diaw with help from Michael Benoit. Contains original music by Dan Powell and Marian Lozano and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Joseph Bernstein. That's it for the Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernusi. See you tomorrow.