Do Aliens Exist? Steven Spielberg Believes They Do

Summary

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The Daily — Do Aliens Exist? Steven Spielberg Believes They Do

Episode Date: June 14, 2026
Host: Rachel Abrams (with guest Steven Spielberg)
Podcast: The Daily (The New York Times)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores filmmaker Steven Spielberg’s enduring fascination with extraterrestrial life, his new movie "Disclosure Day" (centered on government secrecy and UFOs), and broader reflections on faith, community, filmmaking, and the evolution of audiences. Spielberg shares personal anecdotes about his career, creative process, and why movies matter—plus his take on technology and the future of cinema.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Inspiration Behind "Disclosure Day"

• Origins in Reporting: Spielberg’s latest film was inspired by The New York Times' 2017 reporting on secret Pentagon UFO investigations ([02:06]–[02:51]).
  • Spielberg credits the Times piece by Helene Cooper, Ralph Blumenthal, and Leslie Kean for bringing credibility to UFO discourse—transitioning it "from the National Enquirer to one of the greatest papers" ([02:57]–[03:57]).
  • Quote: “Because it was the New York Times, everybody suddenly started to wake up.” — Spielberg ([03:35])
• Impact of Technology: The advent of smartphones increased eyewitness testimony and visual documentation of anomalous aerial sightings ([02:57]–[03:57]).
• Research Approach: Spielberg purposely did not speak directly to whistleblowers, emphasizing that while his story is built on a credible foundation, it is ultimately "a science fiction story" ([04:45]–[04:55]).

2. Spielberg’s Belief in Aliens and The Role of Faith

• Shift from Hope to Belief: Spielberg reflects on moving from a hopeful depiction of aliens in "Close Encounters" to now believing “the believers.”
  • Quote: “I now believe the believers.” — Spielberg ([06:18])
• Themes of "Disclosure Day":
  • Faith is central—both religious faith and faith in humanity ([06:25]–[07:16]).
  • The loss of community and empathy—and how confronting something truly otherworldly could unite us ([07:16]–[08:10]).
  • Quote: “The thing we need to preserve in our society, which is as fragile as democracy, is empathy.” — Spielberg ([07:43])

3. Connection, Division, and the Power of Cinema

• Spielberg addresses America’s divided social time—not just politics—and his longing for restored human connection ([08:40]–[09:33]).
• Movies as Unifiers: Cinema (and other communal arts) can transcend differences and build community ([09:55]).
  • Quote: "Movies build community... We’re having a similar reaction... It is one of the greatest uniters of any culture on the planet." — Spielberg ([09:55]–[10:30])

4. Spielberg’s Creative Process and Personal Life in Film

• Healing and Self-Therapy: Spielberg candidly discusses shaping his films around personal traumas/fears and relationships.
  • "The Fabelmans" as $40 million therapy ([18:39]); "Jaws" stemming from his own fear of water ([20:11]).
  • Quote: “Sometimes I don’t know I’m working out anything until I’m right in the middle of the process.” — Spielberg ([19:15])
• Working Through Trauma: Recreating and controlling childhood fears through filmmaking—e.g., "Poltergeist," "Jaws" ([20:11]–[21:05]).

5. Community Among Directors

• Casual director "salons" at Guillermo del Toro’s house: painting models, bonding, and discussing creative motivations ([21:42]–[22:19]).
  • “[It’s] a great way of cleansing yourself.” — Spielberg ([22:22])

6. Growth, Collaboration, and the Realities of Success

• Spielberg on how creative input and honest feedback reduce as reputation grows, describing the transition from eager collaboration (early career) to the isolation of fame ([23:35]–[24:23]).
• Building a Team: Importance of long-term relationships for honest criticism ([24:25]).

7. The Evolution of Storytelling and Audience

• Spielberg asserts he doesn’t consciously adjust storytelling for changing attention spans; any perceived increased pacing (e.g., in "Disclosure Day") is due to narrative logic ([27:01]–[28:19]).
  • Quote: “It was the biorhythm of the movie...not trying to appeal to a generation that wants...speed.” — Spielberg ([27:31])
• Cinema vs. Streaming: The communal theatrical experience cannot be fully replicated at home ([29:20]).
  • "There’s a contagion that happens when we’re in a pod altogether...it larges the experience." — Spielberg ([29:53])

8. Spielberg the Viewer: Guilty Pleasures & Food Videos

• Unexpectedly, Spielberg admits to loving food videos on Instagram, citing both imaginative cooking and “the rabbit hole” appeal ([32:07]–[32:27]).

9. Reflections: Lightning Round Q&A ([34:32]–[39:51])

• Kids’ Favorite Set: Spielberg’s children only enjoyed visiting the “Jurassic Park” animatronic set ([35:38]).
• Film He Would Redo: "Hook"—felt it lacked a compelling second act ([35:53]).
• Film Regret Not Making: "Rain Man," which he helped develop but had to step away from ([36:01]).
• Riskiest Casting: Drew Barrymore in "E.T." ([36:42]).
• Hardest To Watch: "Schindler's List."
• Most Watched With His Kids: "E.T."—to reassure them during the film’s tense moments ([37:52]).
• Will Movie Theaters Exist in 50 Years? Yes, and anticipates “extraordinary new ways of delivering entertainment through new technology” ([38:24]).
• E.T.’s Texture: “A little moist, but never slimy.” — Spielberg ([37:24]).

10. Spielberg on AI and the Future ([39:09])

• Admits skepticism about AI in creative fields but is undergoing a summer “deep dive” to better understand the technology ([39:09]).
  • “I am spending part of the summer being AI trained...I need to know more about it.” — Spielberg ([39:19])

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “Because it was the New York Times, everybody suddenly started to wake up.” — Steven Spielberg ([03:35])
• “I now believe the believers.” — Steven Spielberg ([06:18])
• “The thing we need to preserve in our society, which is as fragile as democracy, is empathy.” — Steven Spielberg ([07:43])
• “Movies build community...It is one of the greatest uniters of any culture on the planet.” — Steven Spielberg ([09:55]–[10:30])
• “Sometimes I don’t know I’m working out anything until I’m right in the middle of the process.” — Steven Spielberg ([19:15])
• “It was the biorhythm of the movie...not trying to appeal to a generation that wants...speed.” — Steven Spielberg ([27:31])
• "There's a contagion...it larges the experience makes it bigger than life when you watch a movie with people." — Steven Spielberg ([29:53])
• “A little moist, but never slimy.” — Steven Spielberg ([37:24])
• “I am spending part of the summer being AI trained...I need to know more about it.” — Steven Spielberg ([39:19])

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Memorable Moments

• Spielberg recounts his “Dr. Strangelove” draft notice story—movies as escape from life’s fears ([12:10]–[13:57]).
• Guillermo del Toro’s director salons: “We paint monsters...It’s kind of a Zen thing” ([21:42]–[22:22]).
• Spielberg on family: Bringing his kids to set—only “Jurassic Park” truly excited them due to the animatronic T-Rex ([35:38]).
• E.T.’s texture debate settled: “A little moist, but never slimy.” ([37:24])

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Episode Structure: Timeline of Key Segments

• 02:06 – 05:22: Disclosure Day, influence of NYT reporting, Spielberg’s belief in aliens
• 05:22 – 08:10: Faith, community, and themes in “Disclosure Day”
• 08:40 – 10:30: Division in society and the unifying power of movies/theater
• 12:10 – 13:57: “Dr. Strangelove,” Vietnam draft, movies as refuge
• 14:42 – 19:15: Creative process, personal life as inspiration, therapy through film
• 21:42 – 22:22: Directors’ model-painting get-togethers
• 23:35 – 25:05: Collaboration, honesty, and growth at Spielberg’s level
• 26:00 – 29:52: Changing audience expectations, communal viewing loss
• 32:07 – 32:27: Spielberg’s Instagram “rabbit hole”—food videos
• 34:32 – 39:51: Lightning round: kids’ favorites, regrets, casting risk, movie theater future, and AI

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Tone and Language

Conversational, candid, reflective, and leavened with Spielberg’s warmth and humor. Rachel Abrams guides the conversation with curiosity and admiration, prompting revealing recollections and opinions.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard

This episode offers an in-depth, personal window into Steven Spielberg’s worldview: how journalism, technology, and social change have influenced his thinking about aliens, truth, and humanity; his belief in the communal power of movies; and honest insights about creativity, regret, and what keeps him curious at this stage in his legendary career.

Transcript

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[Steven Spielberg]

Do you want to check your shots?

[Rachel Abrams]

If you. Steven Spielberg, want to take a look?

[Steven Spielberg]

Let's see your shot.

[Rachel Abrams]

Oh, there we. Okay. So what do you think of that?

[Steven Spielberg]

It's a good shot. I mean, it's like a nice framing.

[Rachel Abrams]

Does it convey seriousness like serious journalism?

[Steven Spielberg]

Yes, I like seeing all of this. Oh, you don't have me like that. Do you ever push back? Back? What was that great line of Tootsie, you know, how far back do you have to go to make it look good? What about Cleveland?

[Rachel Abrams]

From the New York Times, I'm Rachel Abrams and this is the Daily on Sunday. Steven Spielberg, the name is synonymous with big Hollywood blockbusters. Just to rattle off a few of them, Jaws, you're gonna need a bigger boat. E.T.

[Paul Tanorio]

e.T.

[Rachel Abrams]

Phone home. Indiana Jones. That belongs in a museum. Jurass. This week he's got a new movie out, his 35th. It's called Disclosure Day. And it returns to questions that Steven Spielberg has picked at throughout his entire career. Do aliens exist? And if they do, how will we react to them? What are you gonna do? Full disclosure to the whole world all at once. Steven Spielberg is here with me today to talk about Disclosure Day, his fascination with aliens and what he is watching on Instagram. It's Sunday, June 14th. Steven Spielberg, welcome to the Daily. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Steven Spielberg]

Thank you.

[Rachel Abrams]

So congratulations on your new film, Disclosure Day. I won't give too much away, but it is a movie about the government's efforts to hide information about aliens from the public. It was inspired, as I understand it, by reporting at least in part in the New York Times about a secret government program that studied what people might refer to as UFOs. The New York Times is out this morning with new details about an upcoming and long awaited report, a shadowy office in the Pentagon that ran from 2007 to 2012. According to the New York Times, it examines so called anomalous aerial vehicles. The Pentagon. Everybody in their dentist must be pitching you a movie idea. So what was it about this article in this moment that made you think I Have gotta make a movie about this.

[Steven Spielberg]

Well, long before that story, and it was a great story in 2017, I believe.

[Rachel Abrams]

Yes.

[Steven Spielberg]

There had been so many more videos backing up eyewitness testimony and creating more credibility among the witness base. Once the smartphone came into real existence with the iPhone, everything kind of changed. There was just a lot of information. People were starting to come forward. And, you know, the witnesses have been coming forward ever since Roswell. So it's not that Everything started in 2017, I guess, when Helene Cooper and Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Keane wrote their story, all of a sudden, because it was the New York Times, because they gave the story such prominence, everybody suddenly started to wake up. From the National Enquirer sensationalized reportage about UFOs, suddenly, this was an August paper, perhaps one of the greatest papers giving us this information.

[Rachel Abrams]

We prefer the greatest, but thank you.

[Steven Spielberg]

Yes, yes, the greatest. But I really feel that things started to get into the mainstream. And then after that, there was a lot. A lot of documentaries were being made, and I saw all of them, every doc made about this. And you can't make a doc unless people come forward. Now, it's not under oath, but a lot of people from Congress, from the military started coming forward.

[Rachel Abrams]

Well, to that point, there are some very famous whistleblowers that have come forward, as you're saying. There was one actually, in Helene Cooper's story that you mentioned. And I did wonder, in addition to watching all these documentaries, and it sounds like coming to the belief that aliens were real, perhaps more so than when you made earlier Alien films, did you actually talk to any of those whistleblowers in preparation? Did you try to reach out to anyone?

[Steven Spielberg]

I actually purposely stayed away from that.

[Rachel Abrams]

Really? Why?

[Steven Spielberg]

Because I wrote a story. My story is a science fiction story. The foundation upon which I built my science fiction story is a very, very credible foundation, just based on everything that I've absorbed over many, many decades, but especially over the last decade. And there is a consistency in the reporting. There is circumstantial evidence from tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people who have claimed, not just in America, but all over the world, to have seen something or met people who have had seen things.

[Rachel Abrams]

I mean, you sound very much like you believe aliens exist. That is what I'm getting from you in this conversation. And I'm recalling that in preparation for this interview, I listened to a bunch of your interviews, and I heard you say once that Close Encounters, when you made that movie, it was about what you hoped was in the Universe.

[Steven Spielberg]

Yes.

[Rachel Abrams]

And now you're at the point where it sounds like you very much believe that this exists. What would the younger Spielberg have thought, listening to you now as such a believer, that this is what actually exists in the universe?

[Steven Spielberg]

Well, the younger me wouldn't have been exposed to the incredible plethora of visual documentation of what's been going on. Seeing is believing. Until I see something myself and why I have not seen a ufo, I don't understand why they haven't come to me yet. I mean, I feel like their agent. I have not had any sightings whatsoever. However, having said that, so much of the believers, I now believe the believers.

[Rachel Abrams]

You know, it's interesting that you frame it that way, because disclosure day. One of the big themes, if I may say so, is about faith. Does God love us? I don't mean does he love us? I know he does. Does he love only us? And it's not just about believers, but it's also about faith in something higher than yourself. It's about faith in humanity and the ability of other people to deal with difficult circumstances. Because Genesis says that we're his supreme creation. But do you think it's possible that on Earth. What Genesis. It says we are God's supreme creation on Earth. You could have just made a movie about aliens. You could have made a fun summer blockbuster. And I wonder why you chose to engage with that theme specifically.

[Steven Spielberg]

I just feel. I felt that this was an opportunity to talk about the loss of community and therefore the loss of human connection. This film is more about humanity and the things that divide us and what could be occurring that possibly could bring us a little closer together.

[Rachel Abrams]

Such as aliens being real.

[Steven Spielberg]

Well, such as realizing that the thing that we need to preserve in our society more than anything else, which is something which I believe is as fragile as democracy, is empathy. And that our two characters. Josh o' Connor plays Daniel Kellner and Emily Blunt plays Margaret Fairchild. There is a very large emphasis put on their superpowers.

[Rachel Abrams]

You know, I mean, you've been driving like a maniac the last few days. You know, how do you know that? I just know things. It's just something.

[Steven Spielberg]

And their superpowers are not being able to fly.

[Rachel Abrams]

No, of course not.

[Steven Spielberg]

Their superpowers are really being able to look at somebody, and in six seconds, you know that person intimately. Wow.

[Rachel Abrams]

You were in jail. It must have been so.

[Steven Spielberg]

Hey, hey.

[Rachel Abrams]

You see what I mean? It's crazy.

[Steven Spielberg]

And I just have seen this draining out of us. And I thought that I wanted to do a story about how to bring humanity together again.

[Rachel Abrams]

You know, I understand that you're commenting on the divided political time that we live in.

[Steven Spielberg]

It's not even a political time. It's a divided social time.

[Rachel Abrams]

Divided social time. Has that affected you personally? Have you lost relationships? Are you making this in any way reflective of what you personally have struggled with as we have become more divided?

[Steven Spielberg]

It's not that I've lost relationships. I just, you know, I just, I believe in people and I believe in people who I don't agree with. If we took two soccer teams where they take it very seriously, you could have nothing but rivalry and you could be hooligans against each other in loss or in victory. But there are certain things you agree on. The lager in the pub you drink after a game where you can bury your disagreements and just celebrate the fact that you're alive on the planet. I mean, I mean, that is something that I'm missing today.

[Rachel Abrams]

And arguably, I think I've heard you talk about movies this way. Movies are something that obviously bring people together. And so I wonder if that's sort of like if you're thinking not just about the themes of faith in your film and the importance of faith in terms of bringing people together, but the actual going to see a movie and losing yourself and forgetting what's going on in the outside world. I feel like I see a bit of a through line here.

[Steven Spielberg]

Yeah, well, I've been saying like a broken record that, that movies build community. So does theater, so do concerts. You know, community is when we all come together. We don't know each other, but what we do know is we are having a similar reaction to what is being shown to us, what is being unspooled, what is being presented, performed for us. And it absolutely is one of the. That is one of the greatest uniters of any culture on the face of the planet.

[Rachel Abrams]

We'll be right back.

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[Rachel Abrams]

You know, I heard you once tell a story about your experience with Vietnam that I think really crystallizes how you believe that movies could take you out of the world for a short period of time. I'd love it if you could tell that story.

[Steven Spielberg]

Well, it was just that I was in line to watch Dr. Strangelove. I was in high school. Vietnam was on television every night on all three networks, so it was something you couldn't get away from. Friends of mine had been called up and I was waiting in line in the rain, San Jose, to watch Dr. Strangelove, and I heard a honking. I turned away and my dad was half in the street with his window rolled down, gesturing frantically for me to come over. And I ran over to the car and he just looked like the Grim Reaper. And he just had just handed me this letter from Selective Service. And I opened it up and it just basically was the letter from the draft board asking me to report for my first physical. And I was shocked. It was a death sentence. I couldn't believe what was happening. My dad opened the door, assuming I was going to leave the line and drive home with him, and I said, no, I want to see the movie. And I took the letter, though, with me and I went back in line and all I could think about was going to Vietnam. And then the movie. I got my seat, lights went down, Dr. Strangelove began. I shouldn't tell you this, man, Drake, but you're a good officer and you have a right to know. It looks like we're in a shooting war.

[Rachel Abrams]

Hell, all the Russians evolved, sir.

[Steven Spielberg]

In about five minutes into Strangelove, I forgot my dad had ever pulled up in the car. Gentlemen, you can't fight in here.

[Rachel Abrams]

This is the war room.

[Steven Spielberg]

And the movie complete, completely swarmed all of my five senses. I didn't even think about the letter that was in my pocket. Until I was halfway home on a bus.

[Rachel Abrams]

The way that that movie overwhelmed you made you forget for however long it was that what was going on in the outside world. I think it's fair to say that that is something that you have tried to recreate as a filmmaker, if I'm not mistaken. And I want to talk about you as a filmmaker more broadly. When we were preparing here at the Daily to talk to you, we got into a very spirited debate about what makes a Spielberg film a Spielberg film. Is it awe and wonder? Is it normal people in extraordinary circumstances? I mean, you've literally made so many different types of films and then we. That you are probably the foremost expert on Steven Spielberg and what makes a Steven Spielberg movie Spielbergian. So could you just articulate that for us and settle this?

[Steven Spielberg]

Well, that would require me to suffer a blow to the head, have amnesia, and then have to go into a theater and watch the movies that I forgot I made.

[Rachel Abrams]

Oh, come on. Really?

[Steven Spielberg]

It would be very difficult. You know, it's not a formula. It's not a chemistry set I haul around with me. And it's not alchemy. You know, movies are not alchemy. They're not part of it. Science, the craft of it is science based on the technology of filmmaking. But it's movies for me anyway. It's 80% intuition. And so, you know, I feel that when I'm making movies, the first thing I look for is a very compelling premise. And the second thing I look for is a character that we can hitch our wagons to.

[Rachel Abrams]

Okay?

[Steven Spielberg]

And not necessarily a star you hit your wagons to, but just a really great character. It could be a wonderful brand new actor that we've never seen before, but someone that we could identify with. And then you're on a. A journey with those characters. And if you trust the characters and you bond or imprint on them or bond with them close enough, you trust them. And trusting a character allows you to trust the ride they're taking or the adventure they're on, or the problems they have to solve, or the survival that means life or death. And then you can be so compelled to attach yourself to a personality in your movie that that should take you right to the end.

[Rachel Abrams]

I would like to tell you because you're making me think of this. My dad used to be a screenwriter. He used to teach film and he has taught your movies in class. And one of the things he taught was the first 10 minutes of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, specifically for the reasons you're mentioning. Just the idea, the World is very clear, and the dynamics between these characters are very clear. The father, son dynamic, specifically dad, was important.

[Steven Spielberg]

Then. Wait. Count to 20.

[Rachel Abrams]

No, dad, you listen.

[Steven Spielberg]

Junior.

[Rachel Abrams]

One, two, three, four. In Greek,

[Steven Spielberg]

ena.

[Rachel Abrams]

Theo. Was that the goal there was to just lay out, here's everything you're going to get from this movie in the first 10 minutes, which, by the way, you do in other films. I feel like your opening sequence often establishes so much of what will bring us along for that ride.

[Steven Spielberg]

That was very personal. That was maybe the most personal Indiana Jones film for me in terms of plot structure. The most personal Indiana Jones film for me was Temple of Doom, because I met Kate.

[Rachel Abrams]

And that is Kate Capshaw, of course, the actress.

[Steven Spielberg]

Yes. I said to George, I would direct the first three.

[Rachel Abrams]

Is that right?

[Steven Spielberg]

Without even knowing I was going to meet the love of my life on the second one. But I feel that I've been, You know, I've spent a lot of my life working out my relationship with my father.

[Rachel Abrams]

Right.

[Steven Spielberg]

And when he passed, he was 103. And before he passed, we had 23 wonderful years together. But there were years before that of kind of, I would call it a mild estrangement. And I was always trying to work out where I was in that relationship with my dad. And I insisted, when George Lucas presented the MacGuffin, that I want to make an Indiana Jones movie. George said, they go after the cup of Christ. They go after the Holy Grail. I thought that was great, but I suddenly realized, oh, my God, it's metaphorical. Why don't we have Indy's father, the person that's been doing all the research on the Grail, and Indy's been estranged from his father, and they kind of have a meeting of the hearts. They meet halfway. I can almost reach it, dad. Indiana, Indiana.

[Rachel Abrams]

Let it go.

[Steven Spielberg]

The grail of that relationship was really the understanding and the communion the father and son have by the third act of Last Crusade.

[Rachel Abrams]

I wonder whether at this point in your life and career, there are other things that you would like to work out in film. And sort of what stage you're at with that now is. Film is therapy. I guess I should say, yeah, film is therapy.

[Steven Spielberg]

Sometimes I'll go into a movie consciously saying this film. Like when I made the Fabelmans, I said, well, somebody's gonna have to write a check for $40 million of therapy for me. I didn't pay for it.

[Rachel Abrams]

You could afford to be a little encouraging.

[Steven Spielberg]

About what?

[Rachel Abrams]

About him making movies.

[Steven Spielberg]

Well, I didn't say that. Maybe he's moved on.

[Rachel Abrams]

On from what?

[Steven Spielberg]

He hasn't picked up his camera once since we got here. He'll be going to college in September. Maybe his feelings about it have changed. He's growing up. I'm enthusiastic about that.

[Rachel Abrams]

Filming is what he loves. Oh, Jesus Christ.

[Steven Spielberg]

I'm sorry, guys.

[Rachel Abrams]

Can we please just stop talking about me? I'd think that you, more than ever. It was autobiographical.

[Steven Spielberg]

Oh, yeah, totally autobiographical. Very, very accurate to my. My own memory of my experiences, my relationships with my sisters, my mom, my dad, all that. But, you know, sometimes I don't know I'm working out anything until I'm right in the middle of the process, right in the middle of the movie, and I suddenly. It'll remind me of something when I was a kid that, oh, I'm dealing with something that I've buried for 60 years and, wow, it's back. And maybe I can deal with it here. But I don't set out unless it's consciously to make a film like the Fabelmans or even help design the story of Last Crusade. I don't set out to practice, you know, self therapy. I set out to tell a really good story that's gonna get people really excited and make them wanna go to the movies to see it.

[Rachel Abrams]

But you have said before that you've tried to. In some of your films. You have recreated trauma as a way to maybe get power over it. If. Am I describing that?

[Steven Spielberg]

Well, I think what you're referring to is sometimes things that terrified me as a kid.

[Rachel Abrams]

Yes, Yes.

[Steven Spielberg]

I can almost. I can make scary movie like Poltergeist. Right. Which I produced and wrote.

[Rachel Abrams]

They're here.

[Steven Spielberg]

I can make a really scary movie like that because of all the things that go bump in the night that terrify me and then suddenly feel really good that I got some control over my fear. But now I've disseminated my fear on a lot of people I'll never get to meet. And like with Jaws, you know, I didn't mean to make a movie that scares people out of the water, but it did. I've always been afraid of the water. And I think I wouldn't have said yes to direct Jaws had I not had such a fear of the water.

[Rachel Abrams]

And did. Did Jaws help you with your fear of the water?

[Steven Spielberg]

No, I'm just afraid not. But it sure didn't help a lot of other people that saw the movie. Watch it starboard.

[Rachel Abrams]

One of the reasons why I think this is so interesting is I happen to be in the middle of Lena Dunham's Memoir. And she talks about something very similar, about how basically traumatic things happened to her. And she felt if she could recreate them on screen, she would get some kind of control over it in a way that would help her work through it, if you will. And I wondered, is this something that. I mean, you must have had so many interesting conversations with other filmmakers, artists. Have you heard this before, this idea?

[Steven Spielberg]

I have. I have heard this before when we sit around painting models at Guillermo del Toro's house on Saturday or Sunday mornings. It's all directors.

[Rachel Abrams]

I'm sorry, this is a what? This is a regular del Toro.

[Steven Spielberg]

It's a regular thing we do. We paint monsters. These are plastic, porcelain, sometimes even metal die cast. We hand paint the models, and we talk about movies. It's usually six to eight directors. And we find that we have so much in common in our business and our profession, within the gestalt of who we are and why we do this. And it all comes out in the wash of painting models.

[Rachel Abrams]

So what is the why? And why do painting the models help you with this?

[Steven Spielberg]

It's kind of a Zen thing, in a way. You know, it's sort of, you know, you're focusing on painting, but you're also really engaged in conversation. It's like how I imagined the New Wave in Paris might have been with Truffaut Anduel. Just everybody sitting around, you know. And these filmmakers hung out together and they talked about the stuff that nobody else can relate to. And it's a great way of sort of cleansing yourself.

[Rachel Abrams]

If you ever want the Daily to be a fly on the wall at one of these salons, we would love to be there. I'm asking you a lot of questions about things that you have learned, lessons you've taken from one thing or another. At some point in your life. You became Steven Spielberg, who many people consider to be the greatest filmmaker on Earth. You became like a living legend to folks. And I bring that up because I think a lot of people, maybe people early in their career, understand that the way that you get better is by having people challenge you. Right? You have longtime collaborators. But I wonder how, putting modesty aside for a moment, do you think about your. How your stature affects how people interact with you, how people challenge you? And just generally, how do you continue to grow when you are at the level that you are at?

[Steven Spielberg]

Well, it was a hindrance to me at the beginning of my career because everybody felt so open and free to help me. Cause I was young. I was 22 years old when I directed my first television show. And the help was fantastic. When I made my first film, Sugarland, I had a lot of help from the actors, from Goldie Hawn, from the crew. They were all there to help me. They asked me questions, they gave me suggestions. Then Jaws was made, and Jaws was a phenomenon. And all of a sudden, all that input stopped. I started to make Close Encounters. And everybody was quiet, as if I knew what to do, as if I knew I had all the answers. I didn't have all the answers. I was desperate for collaboration, for opinions. Everybody assumed I knew everything, didn't need any help. I solicited. I went around asking people questions.

[Rachel Abrams]

Were they honest?

[Steven Spielberg]

Yeah, I think so. But they were intimidated. It takes a lot of work to build a team that will be honest with you. And that's why I've had the same people in my. For so many decades, you have said,

[Rachel Abrams]

I believe that one of the reasons that you wrote Disclosure Day is because you felt that this was the last shot. You would have to get this story, to tell this story in a certain way or the right way. I wonder, given all of the movies that you have made, all of the things you have tried to tell us about ourselves and the society that we live in, is there something that you feel like you still want to say that you have not said yet?

[Steven Spielberg]

Let me answer that question as honestly as I know how. Until I find something that delights me and intrigues me and scares me, I won't know what it is yet that I have to say until I discover it by jumping blind off a cliff, which I do about every other film I jump into, you know? And that's when I figure out that I could use this as a vehicle, as a kind of medium to say something. But I don't ever make a movie where I don't feel I have. Every movie I made, I feel like I have something to say, but I really only know what that something is. Once I blindly jump off the edge and I get myself very, very involved in that story, then it sometimes comes to me, sometimes it doesn't.

[Rachel Abrams]

I'm curious about the audience. What do you think about the ways that the audience has changed besides just attention spans? Like, I am curious, do you think that audiences expect something different when they come to see a movie and how that changes your storytelling?

[Steven Spielberg]

I don't think it changes the storytelling. All I can do is tell the stories I know how to tell and hope there's an audience for them. But I don't adjust myself to a

[Rachel Abrams]

new generation, if I may Push back slightly on this. In preparing for this, I watched Close Encounters, and I obviously went to Disclosure Day. And the thing that I found so striking was that Close Encounters opens more slowly. The storytelling feels more slow at the beginning, whereas in Disclosure Day, you are dropped right in the middle of the action. And to me, I felt like this was a reflection of specifically attention spans. Is there something to be said about how quickly or slowly you are making your films? I mean, how could you not, basically, given the world that we live in?

[Steven Spielberg]

Well, I consciously wanted to start Disclosure Day as if we were starting with a third act and then editing a fourth, fifth, and sixth act.

[Rachel Abrams]

You're coming right free here. What do you mean by that? Especially for people that haven't seen it,

[Steven Spielberg]

because the movie starts in mid scene, mid action, middle, and the movie starts with essentially an abduction.

[Rachel Abrams]

Yep.

[Steven Spielberg]

That's not reflective of me trying to appeal to a more impatient generation of moviegoers. It was basically the biorhythm of the movie that I sat down to write. I wrote it that way because I felt like we have been awaiting answers about where's the truth? Where has the truth been about, you know, communication or the government hiding the fact that there is interaction between species, and maybe we've been interacting for 80 or longer years and so. And that, to me, felt like it was already on a fast track. It was already moving for eight decades, very, very quickly, and now it was coming to a head that was dictating how fast I started this closure Day, not trying to appeal to a generation that wants. That has a need for speed.

[Rachel Abrams]

My colleague Wesley Morris recently did quite a masterful, I thought, profile of you.

[Steven Spielberg]

It was amazing.

[Rachel Abrams]

Yeah. Yeah. He is incredible. And he wrote about in this profile not just how the audience has changed in terms of attention span. And I understand your answer that you really. You can only make the movie that you know how to make. Right. But Wesley also wrote about how you two spent a lot of time together. You went to see a play.

[Steven Spielberg]

Yes.

[Rachel Abrams]

And he wrote about your deep appreciation for the audience reactions to this play.

[Steven Spielberg]

Right. And.

[Rachel Abrams]

And it made me wonder how you would describe the different experience of seeing a movie alone, as, of course, so many of us now do when we watch it on our TVs, or, dare I say it, our iPhones, perhaps. What do you.

[Steven Spielberg]

Perish the thought?

[Rachel Abrams]

I have a case to make for the iPhone, by the way, but I'll get to it.

[Steven Spielberg]

It's okay when the movie's been out for a year, but.

[Rachel Abrams]

Or older.

[Steven Spielberg]

Right, or older.

[Rachel Abrams]

But go ahead but what do you. So what do you lose when you don't watch a movie surrounded by other people?

[Steven Spielberg]

Well, it's not what I lose because I can watch a movie alone in a sense. When I watched Dr. Strangelove, it was a full house when I was 18 years old. But I felt like I was alone watching it because it had affected me and it excluded everybody in the theater and I was all by myself. That's how deeply the film had grabbed up all of my attention. But then when I. At the end of the movie, I realized that people were having similar reactions all around me. I suddenly had strangers who were allies in my experience of what that film, how that film affected us.

[Rachel Abrams]

And what did that mean to you?

[Alexa]

To.

[Rachel Abrams]

To be surrounded by people that agreed with you in some way?

[Steven Spielberg]

It felt great. Just. Yeah. The agreement isn't done verbally. You don't get into conversation. Sometimes you talk, but you feel it. It's a psychic thing. It's a thing that you sense. All of us can sense an audience. When you see a comedy with 500 people and they're all laughing, it is one of the greatest, most fun loving things you could do for yourself. The same thing happens, I guess, when you're in a rock concert, when you're watching somebody perform, it is just infectious. You don't get that feeling watching a music, but you get that in a stadium. You get that in a venue, even with a couple hundred people, it's just completely contagious. And so there's a contagion that happens when we're in a pod altogether, reacting and having an experience. And it doesn't preclude watching something by yourself. I'm just saying that it's an additive. It's. It larges the experience makes it bigger than life. When you watch a movie with people.

[Rachel Abrams]

You have been a fierce advocate for people going to the physical movie theater. Of course, listening to you talk, I wonder if you are in some way nostalgic for a time when there weren't as many choices. Even though choices, of course, give people many more opportunities to tell stories.

[Steven Spielberg]

Yes. Yeah, I'm not really nostalgic for that. I'm really not. I love the options. I love the amount of choices out there. The only negative thing about it is you can get sucked down the rabbit hole.

[Rachel Abrams]

But also the options are the reason why people aren't going to the theater, right?

[Steven Spielberg]

Well, no, not so much that. Yes. I mean, everything's a distraction. But don't forget what a distraction television was in 1950. There has been a pitch battle for the audience between television and movies, between the small screen and the ginormous screens. This has never changed. This is nothing new. The difference now is there are so many more options than just watching television.

[Rachel Abrams]

What is something that you love that people might not expect because it is not a movie? Something on YouTube? Something on one of these new ways that people are consuming content?

[Steven Spielberg]

I. I love watching food on. On. On Instagram?

[Rachel Abrams]

Yeah. Wait, wait. Can you explain more? What. What do you mean by that?

[Steven Spielberg]

I love watching food stuff.

[Rachel Abrams]

Food stuff I like.

[Steven Spielberg]

I. I'm a foodie.

[Rachel Abrams]

Okay.

[Steven Spielberg]

So I'd like nine different ways you can make a taco.

[Rachel Abrams]

Okay.

[Steven Spielberg]

You know what I'm saying?

[Rachel Abrams]

Yes.

[Steven Spielberg]

I just, I just, I get a. A little bit down. That's the rabbit hole that pulls me down.

[Rachel Abrams]

The headline here is that Steven Spielberg likes ASMR food videos.

[Steven Spielberg]

I do.

[Rachel Abrams]

What is it about them? Is it the craft that pulls you in or do you just want to know how to make tacos?

[Steven Spielberg]

No, it's the imagination it takes to do something I've never seen before. And now I've made some of this stuff.

[Rachel Abrams]

You've made? Which stuff? The videos. The short videos.

[Steven Spielberg]

I've watched and tried to replicate it and replicate it and some of it is not as good as it looks.

[Rachel Abrams]

But yes, as all of us have experienced. Yes.

[Steven Spielberg]

I mean, my wife right now is into something about dribbling a hot fudge over potato chips and making an open faced sandwich out of it. I'm not ready for that yet. But she's been threatening to make it for the last week.

[Rachel Abrams]

We'll be right back.

[Alexa]

Say hello to a new kind of AI assistant. With Alexa, staying informed is just the start. It tracks prices and alerts you when they drop, helps you plan around your actual schedule and budget, and remembers what you've told it. So every conversation picks up where the last one left off, no matter where you're chatting. For people who like to stay ahead, it's the assistant that keeps up free with prime. Learn [e-mail] Alexaplus I gave my brother

[Rachel Abrams]

a New York Times subscription. We exchange articles and so having read

[Steven Spielberg]

the same article, we can discuss it.

[Paul Tanorio]

She sent me a year long subscription so I have access to all the games.

[Rachel Abrams]

The New York Times contributes to our quality time together. It enriches our relationship.

[Steven Spielberg]

It was such a.

[Paul Tanorio]

Such a cool and thoughtful gift.

[Rachel Abrams]

We're reading the same stuff, we're making the same food.

[Steven Spielberg]

We're on the same page.

[Rachel Abrams]

Learn more about giving a New York Times subscription as a [e-mail] gift. Stephen, thank you so much for all of this. We, if I may call you Steven. I should have asked you the beginning of this.

[Steven Spielberg]

Why not? Please call me Stephen.

[Rachel Abrams]

We had envisioned in just the last remaining moments that we would do a little lightning round of questions.

[Steven Spielberg]

Okay.

[Rachel Abrams]

Okay, so if you'll indulge us, what are the best and worst Steven Spielberg movies according to your children?

[Steven Spielberg]

I don't think my kids have ever had a worst. I mean, my kids like my movies.

[Rachel Abrams]

They do like your movies, but they

[Steven Spielberg]

haven't seen them all. And they'll tell me, this is not

[Rachel Abrams]

what I expected you to say. Because everybody's killed children. No matter how accomplished they are, they think, oh, it's just what dad does. It's like nothing.

[Steven Spielberg]

I'll tell you what my kids do. When my kids were 6, 8, 10 years old, and I'd bring them to the set because my whole family. Kate, would bring the whole family, too. Anywhere I was shooting, the family would live there. And my kids were so bored by my job, they come on the set and the first thing they'd say is, when do we get to leave?

[Rachel Abrams]

You're kidding.

[Steven Spielberg]

No, I'm not kidding. Because one of my kids said to me, they said, because we just waited an hour. And then when you said, action, it only lasted two minutes. And now you put the camera somewhere else and it's gonna be another hour. You know, it's the waiting part that they hated. The only film I remember them not wanting to leave the set was Jurassic Park.

[Rachel Abrams]

Oh, wow.

[Steven Spielberg]

Because we had the. We had the 35 foot T. Rex, completely auto animatronic, designed brilliantly by the brilliant Stan Winston. They couldn't get enough of that.

[Rachel Abrams]

What is a movie you might redo differently if you had the chance?

[Steven Spielberg]

Hook.

[Rachel Abrams]

Why? I'm doing a really good job with this lightning round, but why now? I need to know.

[Steven Spielberg]

Not enough of a second act. That was compelling enough for me.

[Rachel Abrams]

Interesting.

[Steven Spielberg]

I thought it had a great beginning and a great ending and it didn't have a middle.

[Rachel Abrams]

More meat in the middle. Okay, what movie do you regret? I don't know if you pass on movies, but what movie do you regret? Just not doing these. You could have done the most.

[Steven Spielberg]

I didn't pass on it. I helped develop Rain man with Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise. I brought the original writer back on the project, Ron Bass, and I worked with him on a couple of drafts. I was all ready to make the movie. And then something came along in my life and I needed to drop out of that film to help my friend. And that's the only movie that I ever had a chance of making that I was sorry I didn't take. But I thought Barry Levinson did a brilliant job making it into his movie.

[Rachel Abrams]

Riskiest casting decision that paid off.

[Steven Spielberg]

Riskiest casting decision paid off. I think any time I've made a film with children because they're real people. And I think the riskiest casting decision I probably made was that paid off as Drew Barrymore in et.

[Rachel Abrams]

Favorite movie in the last few years, in recent years.

[Steven Spielberg]

It's gonna have to be one battle after another.

[Rachel Abrams]

Why is that?

[Steven Spielberg]

It was just an intoxicant. It was about something. About something important. But it never let me go. It had such a hold on me.

[Rachel Abrams]

This question is not original, and it is probably only for me, but was ET slimy or dry?

[Steven Spielberg]

What's a wild question? ET was a little moist, but never slimy.

[Rachel Abrams]

A little moist, but never slimy. Was that an actual directive you gave?

[Steven Spielberg]

E.T. was only dry when E.T. got sick.

[Rachel Abrams]

Right, right.

[Steven Spielberg]

And E.T. was dry.

[Rachel Abrams]

Okay. Moist, but not.

[Steven Spielberg]

I've never been asked that question before, ever.

[Rachel Abrams]

So basically the answer is in the middle. So all the friends I have argued with about this over the years, everybody's a little. Right. This is. Come to the Daily for questions you've never been asked before.

[Steven Spielberg]

I've never been asked this question.

[Rachel Abrams]

Which of your films do you like watching the most? And is there a movie that you find it hard to watch?

[Steven Spielberg]

It's very hard for me to watch Schindler's List. I don't watch a lot of my own movies. I don't. Once I make them, I kind of move on to the next one. But the film I. I do enjoy watching. Cause I've Never let my 7 kids watch without me in the room because I'm so afraid they're gonna think that ET's really dying. When ET comes back to life, I'm always right there with my kids saying, don't worry. It's gonna be okay. And I think et.

[Rachel Abrams]

Et okay. Do you think that there will be movie theaters in 50 years?

[Steven Spielberg]

Yes, I do. I think there'll be movie theaters in 50 years. And I think they will be extraordinary new ways of delivering entertainment through new technology.

[Rachel Abrams]

Final question for you. And this is probably not a lightning round question, but it is something that a lot of people are thinking of. You are a person who spent a lot of time thinking about complacency in the face of existential threats. It's very much part of War of the Worlds HG Wells book that you quote from for your film, of course. And the number one, perhaps existential threat that people might be talking about in Hollywood, I would imagine, is AI. And I'd love to ask you both what do you think the best use of this technology is and how do you think it will actually be used and if you use it?

[Steven Spielberg]

Now, let me just tell you something I'm embarking on right now. I've been very critical of AI Because I don't want AI to ever replace human beings in creative roles.

[Rachel Abrams]

Sure.

[Steven Spielberg]

But I don't know enough about AI to really be able to answer that question comprehensively. And I am spending part of the summer being AI trained by whom? I don't want to say by who, but I am learning about AI. I'm going to do a deep dive on AI Before I really get any more or less critical of it. I need to know more about it. And that's what I'm doing this summer. I just want to know in general about what is AI really all about.

[Rachel Abrams]

God, you and all of the rest of us. I hope that you will come back and tell us what you learned, because I'm sure we could all use it. But in the meantime, this has been such a pleasure and thank you so much for being here.

[Steven Spielberg]

It's been great talking to you. This has been a blast for me.

[Rachel Abrams]

I'm glad to hear that. Today's episode was produced by Alex Barron and edited by Wendy Dore, with help from Paige Cowett and Michael Benoit. It contains music by Dan Powell, Marian Lozano and Diane Wong and was engineered by Nick Pittman and Sophia Landman. If you'd like to see a video of the of my conversation with Steven Spielberg, you can find it at the New York Times website. Our video was produced by Mustafa Mirza, Peter Colpart and Devin Greenleaf and edited by David Herr. Cinematography by Luke Piotrowski, Zach Caldwell, Andrew Smith and Thomas Trudeau, with production assistance from Michael Cordero. Sound recorded by Nick Pittman and engineered by Alyssa Moxley. That's it for the Daily I'm Rachel Abrams. See you tomorrow.

[Alexa]

Say hello to a new kind of AI Assistant. With Alexa, staying informed is just the start. It tracks prices and alerts you when they drop, helps you plan around your actual schedule and budget, and remembers what you've told it. So every conversation picks up where the last one left off, no matter where you're chatting. For people who like to stay ahead, it's the assistant that keeps up free with prime learn [e-mail] AlexaPlus.