Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth

Summary

Summary of "Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth"

Podcast Information

• Title: The Daily
• Host/Authors: Michael Barbaro and Sabrina Tavernise, The New York Times
• Description: The Daily delivers the biggest stories of our time, narrated by top journalists. Available five days a week, ready by 6 a.m.
• Episode Title: Drunkenness, Women and Wokeness: A Dramatic Confirmation Hearing for Pete Hegseth
• Release Date: January 15, 2025

---

Introduction

In the January 15, 2025 episode of The Daily, hosts Michael Barbaro and Sabrina Tavernise delve into the contentious confirmation hearing of Pete Hegseth for the position of Secretary of Defense under President Donald Trump. The nomination has sparked significant debate across the political spectrum due to Hegseth's unconventional background, controversial views, and reported personal misconduct.

Background on Pete Hegseth's Nomination

Pete Hegseth, a former Fox News commentator and leader of veterans' groups, was nominated by President Trump for Secretary of Defense. His nomination deviates sharply from traditional candidates due to allegations of personality misconduct, controversial statements regarding women in the military, and a lack of conventional management experience. These factors have raised doubts about his suitability for overseeing one of the United States' most critical military institutions.

Key Points:

• Controversial Nominee: Hegseth's background as a media personality and leader of veterans' organizations.
• Allegations of Misconduct: Reports of public drunkenness, treatment of women, and a past sexual assault allegation.
• Lack of Traditional Experience: Limited management experience compared to previous Secretaries of Defense.

Committee's Opening Statements

The confirmation hearing took place at the Senate Armed Services Committee, chaired by Senator Roger Wicker (R-Mississippi). The Republicans, holding a narrow majority, displayed unwavering support for Hegseth from the outset.

Senator Roger Wicker's Opening Remarks:

"He is a decorated post-911 combat veteran. He will inject a new warrior ethos into the Pentagon, a spirit that can cascade from the top down. Mr. Hegseth will bring energy and fresh ideas to shake up the bureaucracy."
[05:54]

Wicker emphasized the need for revitalizing the Department of Defense (DoD) and criticized the current administration for weakening the military. His remarks signaled a defense of Hegseth's unconventional nomination, portraying him as a necessary change agent.

Hegseth's Opening Statement

Pete Hegseth addressed the committee, attempting to present himself as a bipartisan leader committed to national security. He emphasized his dedication to collaborating across party lines and highlighted his personal support system.

Hegseth's Statement:

"Should I be confirmed? I look forward to working with this committee, senators from both parties to secure our nation."
[09:25]

He thanked his family, including his wife and seven children, aiming to humanize himself amidst the scrutiny.

Democratic Senators' Questions and Criticisms

Democratic senators seized the opportunity to scrutinize Hegseth's qualifications and past statements, particularly focusing on his views regarding women in the military and personal conduct.

Key Points and Quotes:

1. Women in the Military:

   • Senator Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island):

     "A variety of sources, including your own writings, implicate you with disregarding the laws of war, financial mismanagement, racist and sexist remarks about men and women in uniform, alcohol abuse, sexual assault, sexual harassment, and other troubling issues."
     [08:09]

   • Senator Jean Shaheen (D-New Hampshire):

     "Mr. Hegseth, should we take it to believe that you believe that the two... hundreds of women who are currently in the infantry, lethal members of our military, serving in the infantry and ground combat roles. So please explain these types of statements because they're brutal and they're mean."
     [17:01]

2. Personal Conduct and Qualifications:

   • Senator Tim Kaine (D-Virginia):

     "You have had extramarital affairs that you have acknowledged. How does that affect your ability to lead the Department of Defense?"
     [24:33]

   • Senator Gary Peters (D-Michigan):

     "What's the largest number of people you've ever supervised or had in an organization in your career? Not three million? No, I don't expect that. No one."
     [26:26]

Democrats challenged Hegseth's ability to lead a massive organization like the DoD, questioning his lack of experience and previous management roles.

Republican Senators' Support and Questions

Republican senators countered the Democrats' criticisms by reiterating Hegseth's strengths and addressing his qualifications from a military efficacy standpoint.

Key Points and Quotes:

1. Emphasis on Standards and Readiness:

   • Senator Joanie Ernst (R-Iowa):

     "Men and women must meet the same high standards. They must be physically able to achieve those standards in order to serve in these units."
     [22:15]

   • Senator Tim Sheehy (R-Maine):

     "How many rounds of 5.56 can you fit into the magazine of an M4 rifle? Depends on the magazine, but standard issue is 30. And what size round does the M9 Beretta standard issue sidearm for the military fire?"
     [28:24]

2. Defense of Hegseth's Military Knowledge:

   • Republicans probed Hegseth on military specifics, such as ammunition types and tactical gear, to demonstrate his practical understanding of military operations.

3. Critique of Democratic Focus on DEI:

   • Senator Tuberville (R-Alabama):

     "We're spending more money on transgender restrooms than we are coverings for $100 million airplanes. That's not acceptable."
     [23:34]

   • Republicans argued that Democratic policies on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) detracted from military effectiveness.

Key Themes: Women in Military, Standards, and Qualifications

Women in the Military

A significant portion of the hearing addressed Hegseth's previous statements suggesting that women in combat roles reduce military effectiveness. Democratic senators highlighted his 2024 comments on Fox News, where he stated:

"I'm straight up saying that we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn't made us more effective."
[16:44]

Hegseth attempted to moderate his stance, acknowledging the contributions of women in the military but stopped short of fully retracting his earlier positions.

Standards and Readiness

Hegseth emphasized the importance of maintaining high standards within the military. He argued that current DEI initiatives have diluted these standards, impacting overall readiness.

"Standards that we unfortunately, over time, have seen eroded in certain duty positions... affects readiness, which is what I care about the most."
[19:14]

Republican senators echoed this sentiment, advocating for a merit-based approach focused on military effectiveness rather than political correctness.

Qualifications for Secretary of Defense

Democrats questioned Hegseth's ability to oversee the DoD, highlighting his limited managerial experience and personal conduct issues. Conversely, Republicans defended his practical military knowledge and portrayed his unconventional background as an asset for revitalizing the DoD.

"No, you don't expect that... If they said, you have supervised 100 people before, you wouldn't be hired as a CEO of one of the biggest companies in the country."
[26:52]

Conclusion and Political Implications

By the end of the hearing, the political divide was starkly evident. Democrats remained resolute in opposing Hegseth's nomination, citing his controversial statements and perceived lack of qualifications. Republicans, on the other hand, maintained strong support, emphasizing his military knowledge and potential to enhance the DoD's effectiveness.

Final Remarks by Michael Barbaro:

"And by the end, it's very interesting, Democrats have basically been saying, you're not technically qualified to run the Department of Defense... As they see it, they're both kind of talking right past each other, the Democrats and Republicans."
[29:14]

With key Republican senators like Joni Ernst signaling their support, the likelihood of Hegseth's confirmation appeared high. This outcome underscores the broader political narrative of disruption versus maintaining the status quo, reflecting the tensions from the recent election cycle.

Final Insight by Eric Schmidt:

"I think you're right, Michael, that this election was about change and was about disruption... Democrats seem fine with the risk that they're going against the trend of disruption."
[34:35]

The confirmation of Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense would signify a continuation of President Trump's unconventional appointments, potentially reshaping the Pentagon's approach to national security and military management.

---

Notable Quotes:

1. Senator Roger Wicker (R-Mississippi):

   "The secretary is expected to be a fair, nonpartisan and responsible leader, as well."
   [07:40]

2. Pete Hegseth:

   "Should I be confirmed? I look forward to working with this committee, senators from both parties to secure our nation."
   [09:25]

3. Senator Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island):

   "We must acknowledge the concerning public reports against you."
   [07:46]

4. Senator Joanie Ernst (R-Iowa):

   "Men and women must meet the same high standards. They must be physically able to achieve those standards in order to serve in these units."
   [22:15]

5. Senator Gary Peters (D-Michigan):

   "What's the largest number of people you've ever supervised or had in an organization in your career? Not three million? No, I don't expect that. No one."
   [26:26]

---

This detailed summary captures the essence of the dramatic confirmation hearing for Pete Hegseth, highlighting the clash between Republican support and Democratic opposition. The hearing not only scrutinized Hegseth's qualifications and past statements but also reflected the ongoing political struggles over military policies and leadership.

Transcript

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[Michael Barbaro]

From the New York Times. I'm Michael Balbaro. This is the Daily On Tuesday, the confirmation process for Donald Trump's cabinet began with his most controversial choice, Pete Hegseth for secretary of defense. Today, my colleague, national security correspondent Eric Schmidt, on the contentious and dramatic hearing and the odds that Hegseth will soon be running the military. It's Wednesday, January 15th. Eric, from the moment that Pete Hegseth was nominated to run the Department of Defense, it, as you well know, created a storm of controversy on both sides of the aisle because of the reports of his personality misconduct, because of his views on issues like whether women should be in the military, and because of his lack of traditional management experience. Everything about him represented a major deviation from the norm of who the secretary of defense is. So much so that it looked like Donald Trump might dump him as his choice. But that hasn't happened. So heading into this confirmation hearing, what for you were the big questions about how this very highly anticipated day would unfold?

[Eric Schmidt]

Well, I think you said it's just amazing how unconventional Pete Hexth's nomination is. I mean, when his nomination was announced, we all kind of scratched our heads and went, you mean the FOX News anchor, that guy?

[Michael Barbaro]

Right.

[Eric Schmidt]

And, you know, as it turned out, you know, he did have a record. He had run a couple veterans groups. And then some of the allegations started seeping out about his misconduct. The Times unearthed a letter from his mother in 2018 saying he treats women terribly. His mom later said that she wrote that letter in anger. But still, then we learned about an alleged sexual assault in 2017.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right.

[Eric Schmidt]

So these things are starting to pile up. And then we talk to former colleagues of his who talk about allegations of public drunkenness. I mean, any one of these things, you know, would have been enough to sink a nominee in another time. But not Pete Hegseth.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right.

[Eric Schmidt]

So going into the hearing, I think there were really three major questions about how it would unfold. The first would be what do the Democrats do? Do they recognize this is a foregone conclusion and basically meet Pete Hegseth on his own terms or do they go to war with him? The Second, for Republicans, do they acknowledge any misgivings at all about Pete Hegseth's conduct, his fitness for the job, his experience, anything at all that would appear to give a crack in their support for him, or do they just fall in line? And then the third question is, how would Pete Hegseth carry himself?

[Michael Barbaro]

Right.

[Eric Schmidt]

Again. Remember, this is the firebrand Fox News commentator. He's used to being on television and really being hard edged in the MAGA world. Or do we see a different version of him where he's kind of buttoned up, the Princeton grad, and ready to play nice with Democrats and maybe soften some of their opposition? You know, which, which Pete Hegseth shows up in what form and how does he present himself in this hearing? Right.

[Michael Barbaro]

The firebrand or the charmer.

[Eric Schmidt]

Right. Or some combination.

[Michael Barbaro]

So given those three big questions going into this hearing, take us into the actual confirmation hearing itself as you tried to figure out which way it was going to go for each of those three constituencies. Republicans, Democrats, and Hegseth himself.

[Eric Schmidt]

So the hearing starts at 9:30 on Tuesday morning. And this is the Senate Armed Services Committee. And their job is basically to recommend or not for all their Senate colleagues. You know, how should they vote on this guy? Again, remember, Republicans are in control as of the last election, but there's a very narrow margin and it's still a question of whether the Republicans will hold together. So Hecseth takes his seat in front of the dais and he looks like kind of like you would see him on television, sporting a navy blue suit with a red tie, an American flag pocket square. And his wife and several other women, including Megyn Kelly, are sitting right behind him in support.

[Roger Wicker]

Good morning. The hearing will come to order.

[Eric Schmidt]

Roger Wicker of Mississippi is the chairman who starts with an opening statement.

[Roger Wicker]

Admittedly, this nomination is unconventional. The nominee is unconventional, just like that New York developer who rode down the escalator in 2015 to announce his candidacy for president. That may be what makes Mr. Hegseth an excellent choice.

[Eric Schmidt]

Whicker signals pretty much from his opening statement. The Republicans are going to be a heat shield for Pete Hegseth in this hearing.

[Roger Wicker]

He is a decorated post 911 combat veteran. He will inject a new warrior ethos into the Pentagon, a spirit that can cascade from the top down. Mr. Hexith will bring energy and fresh ideas to shake up the bureaucracy.

[Eric Schmidt]

You know, the Biden administration has weakened the American military. The American service members are worn out. Recruiting is in the tank. It's just, you know, we need a jolt here.

[Roger Wicker]

In short, I'm confident that Mr. Hexith, supported by a team of experienced top officials, will get the job done.

[Eric Schmidt]

And so this very quickly from the chairman of the committee makes it sound, you know, there's not going to be any doubts raised from his side of the aisle here at least.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right. And given that original question you posed, it now seems that Republicans will not be acknowledging any misgivings about PETEX that they had early on.

[Eric Schmidt]

That's right. I mean, there are no reservations. All it's full speed ahead.

[Roger Wicker]

Mr. Hegseth, I welcome you and your family to today's hearing.

[Eric Schmidt]

And I'm and then we get our first statement from the senior Democrat on the committee. Senator Jack Reed of Rhode island, who's been on the committee for years, is a West Point graduate, Army veteran himself, and he actually starts out with some niceties.

[Roger Wicker]

Mr. Exit I want to begin by saying that I respect and appreciate your military service in the Army National Guard. I know from experience that there is no greater privilege than to lead American soldiers, and I thank you for answering the call.

[Eric Schmidt]

But then you have been nominated. Reed, who's a relatively soft spoken guy, not, you know, not bombastic of all.

[Roger Wicker]

The secretary is expected to be a fair, nonpartisan and responsible leader, as well.

[Michael Barbaro]

As a trustworthy advocate for the men.

[Roger Wicker]

And women that he leads. Mr. Hegsett, I do not believe that you are qualified to meet the overwhelming.

[Michael Barbaro]

Demands of this job.

[Roger Wicker]

We must acknowledge the concerning public reports against you.

[Eric Schmidt]

He just launches into this extraordinarily harsh assessment of Pete Hexith's qualifications.

[Roger Wicker]

A variety of sources, including your own writings, implicate you with disregarding the laws of war, financial mismanagement, racist and sexist.

[Michael Barbaro]

Remarks about men and women in uniform.

[Roger Wicker]

Alcohol abuse, sexual assault, sexual harassment and other troubling issues.

[Michael Barbaro]

It's as thorough a public disqualification, a kind of dismissal as I think I've ever seen in I don't know the 10 or 15 years I've ever watched a congressional hearing. It's a senior member of one of his committees basically saying, I don't even know why you are in front of me.

[Eric Schmidt]

It's a total takedown.

[Roger Wicker]

Mr. Hegstead, you are the ninth nominee for Secretary of defense that I've had the honor to consider as a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. I have voted in favor of all your predecessors, including those in the first Trump administration. Unfortunately, you lack the character and composure.

[Michael Barbaro]

And competence to hold the position of secretary of defense.

[Roger Wicker]

Thank you.

[Michael Barbaro]

And of course, Hegseth is sitting across from Senator Reid at this point, his jaw looks really tense. And then suddenly, and I was watching this alongside of you, it's his turn to finally speak. What does he say?

[Roger Wicker]

Well, thank you, Chairman Wicker, ranking member Reid, and all the members of this committee for this opportunity today.

[Eric Schmidt]

Again, remember, this guy is a television personality. So he's. He's on now. The light is on for him to speak. And he starts off, you know, quite deliberately trying to disarm the senators.

[Roger Wicker]

Should I be confirmed? I look forward to working with this committee, senators from both parties to secure.

[Eric Schmidt]

Our nation, saying this is going to be a hearing where he's looking out for the best of the nation. He's going to work across the aisle as much as he can.

[Roger Wicker]

Thank you to my incredible wife Jennifer, who has changed my life and been with me throughout this entire process.

[Eric Schmidt]

He turns and he thanks his wife.

[Roger Wicker]

For her support, including our seven wonderful kids.

[Eric Schmidt]

Gunner Jackson, he tries to name his seven kids.

[Roger Wicker]

Luke, Rex. Sorry, it's a lot of them.

[Eric Schmidt]

And Gwendolyn forgets one of the names, which draws kind of a laugh, right?

[Michael Barbaro]

I mean, who among us? Seven kids.

[Eric Schmidt]

Yeah, who among us? And then something dramatic happens inside the hearing room.

[Roger Wicker]

You are a misogynist. Not only that, you are.

[Eric Schmidt]

Hecklers start screaming, you know, in protest of Hegseth's nomination. And the Capitol Police rush over and basically hustle this guy out. And Heth tries to get going again. He tries to kind of regain his.

[Roger Wicker]

Momentum with this meritocracy, war fighting, accountability and readiness.

[Eric Schmidt]

And then another Peckler jumps up and starts screaming at something else.

[Roger Wicker]

You may continue, sir. Returning the pen and bound.

[Eric Schmidt]

So it's very disruptive.

[Roger Wicker]

Initially, the Department of Defense under Donald Trump will achieve peace through strength.

[Eric Schmidt]

This is all at a time when, you know, peak Hexseth is trying to talk about how he's going to transform the woke military that has sunk to new lows into this, you know, new Department of Warriors.

[Roger Wicker]

Unlike the current administration, politics should play no part in military matters. We are not Republicans. We are not Democrats. We are American warriors. Our standards will be high and they will be equal, not equitable. That's a very different word.

[Eric Schmidt]

And so how do you get that powerful military? You do that by focusing on the mission of the military, the building up of military might and not being distracted by what Republicans say. Democrats have spent too much time on of DEI policies and progressive politics and getting away from basic tenets of military effectiveness.

[Michael Barbaro]

What, if anything, does Hegseth say in this opening statement about the questions that have come up around his resume.

[Eric Schmidt]

Well, interestingly enough, now it is true.

[Roger Wicker]

And has been acknowledged that I don't have a similar biography to defense secretaries of the last 30 years.

[Eric Schmidt]

You know, he, he openly acknowledges he's not your usual defense secretary.

[Roger Wicker]

But as President Trump also told me, we've repeatedly placed people atop the Pentagon with supposedly the right credentials, whether they are retired generals, academics or defense contractor executives. And where has it gotten us? He believes, and I humbly agree, that it's time to give someone with dust on his boots the helm a change agent.

[Eric Schmidt]

Someone with no and that what he says is, you know, I'm bringing a new, fresh approach to this America.

[Roger Wicker]

Thank you for the time and I look forward to your questions. Thank you very much, Mr. Hex.

[Michael Barbaro]

So by this point, the table has been set and we have the Republican chairman basically saying we are going to offer our complete, undiluted, unapologetic support for Hegseth as defense secretary. The ranking Democrat is determined to try to disqualify him in the eyes of of the public. And Hegseth is proudly and pretty diplomatically and cleverly embracing the role of the change agent.

[Eric Schmidt]

That's right. And remember, this is just the introduction to this hearing.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right?

[Eric Schmidt]

And the real fireworks are yet to come because the question and answers that's going to go on for hours with Democrats and Republicans lining up, the partisan lines have been thrown down on both sides. And that's where the drama is really going to unfold in this hearing.

[Michael Barbaro]

We'll be right back.

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[Michael Barbaro]

I've got a break for you. I'm actually going to tell you some good news today.

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[Eric Schmidt]

A time, featuring David Brooks, Tressi McMillan.

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[Michael Barbaro]

So, Eric, talk about the fireworks portion of this hearing, the questioning of Hegseth from senators of both parties.

[Eric Schmidt]

So one of the big topics that came up, particularly from Democrats who launched into hexis comments and what he's written about women in the military. And in the weeks leading up to this hearing, he's tried to walk some of those comments back. The Democrats haven't had a chance to really talk this thing through, and this is their first time to really confront him with what he's actually said and written on this Good morning, Mr. Hegseth.

[Roger Wicker]

Good morning.

[Eric Schmidt]

Senator Jean Shaheen, for instance, the Senate Democratic senator from New Hampshire, was one of several female Democrat senators who took.

[Roger Wicker]

Heath on as recently as November 7th of 2024 on the Sean Ryan show. You said, and I quote, I'm straight up saying that we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn't made us more effective.

[Eric Schmidt]

And Shaheen, among others, really launches in some really tough questioning.

[Roger Wicker]

Mr. Hegseth, should we take it to believe that you believe that the two.

[Eric Schmidt]

Women on this committee who have served.

[Roger Wicker]

Honorably and with distinction made our military.

[Eric Schmidt]

Less effective and less capable? This was something that other Democratic senators, including Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, also picked on.

[Michael Barbaro]

We have hundreds, hundreds of women who.

[Eric Schmidt]

Are currently in the infantry, lethal members.

[Roger Wicker]

Of our military, serving in the infantry.

[Eric Schmidt]

And basically saying, wait a minute here. We already have women who are serving in the military and serving in some of these combat positions in the infantry and ground combat roles. So please explain these types of statements because they're brutal and they're mean and.

[Roger Wicker]

They disrespect men and women who are willing to die for this country. You will have to change how you.

[Eric Schmidt]

See women to do this job well.

[Roger Wicker]

And I don't know if you are.

[Michael Barbaro]

Capable of that, so I want to.

[Eric Schmidt]

And then you've got other senators. Senator Elizabeth Warren says, well, wait a minute, you've had these kind of vague pronouncements of how women are so great in the military.

[Roger Wicker]

After your last public comment saying that women absolutely should not be in combat, you declared that, quote, some of our greatest warriors are women.

[Eric Schmidt]

It seems like you've had this conversion and you're Trying to sand the hard edges off your myriad public comments about this.

[Roger Wicker]

What extraordinary event happened in that 32 day period, period that made you change the core values you had expressed for the preceding 12 years?

[Eric Schmidt]

In response to all this, Hegseth basically.

[Roger Wicker]

Says, yes, ma'am, women in our military, as I have said publicly, have and continue to make amazing contributions across all aspects of our battlefield.

[Eric Schmidt]

Women obviously play a very important role in the military. But he doesn't really address some of the most extreme things that he's written and said in the past.

[Roger Wicker]

But just saying, when I'm talking about that issue, it's not about the capabilities of men and women, it's about standards.

[Eric Schmidt]

We have to have a standards based military again. Going back to his theme about focusing on the warrior ethos and not some of the DEI characteristics of the current administration.

[Roger Wicker]

Standards that we unfortunately, over time, have seen eroded in certain duty positions, certain schools, certain places, which affects readiness, which is what I care about the most. Readiness.

[Michael Barbaro]

And what exactly does he mean when he's using that word, standards? It sounds like he is suggesting that during a Democratic administration of Joe Biden that those standards got lowered. But he doesn't quite come out and say it. But is that what he's implying?

[Eric Schmidt]

That's what he's implying. He's basically saying that in order to accommodate, whether it's gender politics or other politics within the military, you've lowered the standards, the effectiveness standards of your basic soldiers here. And that's just not the case. The most elite units have got a specific test that both men and women who serve in those units have to pass. It's not like there's a test for women and tests for men in these elite units. And to say that the standards have been, you know, warped under the current administration to serve their progressive politics, that's not right. And this is what some of these Democratic senators are saying, saying, wait a minute now, you know, they're calling him on it.

[Roger Wicker]

These are the requirements today for people serving in the industry, men and women.

[Eric Schmidt]

They are gender neutral and they are.

[Roger Wicker]

Very difficult to meet.

[Michael Barbaro]

They have not been reduced.

[Eric Schmidt]

So that was the Democrats. But what was perhaps the most interesting and one of the most awaited parts of this hearing was the support that Hegseth seemed to get from Republican Senator Joanie Ernst.

[Roger Wicker]

Good morning, Mr. Hegseth, and thank you very much. I appreciate your service to our nation.

[Eric Schmidt]

She is a combat veteran and also a sexual assault survivor, somebody who is seen as a pivotal figure in these hearings.

[Roger Wicker]

You and I have had many productive conversations and Just for our audience, we have had very frank conversations.

[Eric Schmidt]

Is that correct, Mr. Hegseth?

[Roger Wicker]

Senator, that is a correct characterization. You know that I don't.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right. And she had seemed to be against his nomination in the beginning and then slowly began to express support for him after several meetings. And so where we meet her on Tuesday is that she seems to be in his camp.

[Eric Schmidt]

That's right.

[Roger Wicker]

I do believe in high standards.

[Eric Schmidt]

Where they do seem to kind of come together now is this question of.

[Roger Wicker]

Standards for the young women that are out there now and can meet those standards. They must physically be able to achieve those standards so that they can complete their mission.

[Eric Schmidt]

Men and women must meet the same high standards. They must be physically able to achieve those standards in order to serve in these units. That, of course, is one of the main things that he's trying to get across. And now she seems to be saying the same thing.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right. And that matters because she seems to be basically pushing back against these Democratic women senators and the case they're making.

[Eric Schmidt]

That's right. Other Republicans on the committee want to zero in on the whole question of standards and how the military should be based on merit and skill rather than DEI qualities for those watching at home.

[Roger Wicker]

DEI is not about giving everybody opportunity.

[Eric Schmidt]

It is rooted in cultural Marxism and not the wokeness that they claim is making America weak and making America's military weak. Our current secretary of the Air Force.

[Roger Wicker]

Thought we had too many white officers, advocated for quotas, and if you crunch the numbers, that meant that 5,800 white.

[Eric Schmidt]

Officers who've worked really hard should be fired. Senators such as Senator Tuberville of. Of Alabama, talking about how the military is way too focused on identity issues.

[Roger Wicker]

I met with a general, a couple.

[Eric Schmidt]

Of generals this summer, Coach. We're spending more money on transgender restrooms than we are coverings for $100 million airplanes. That's not acceptable.

[Roger Wicker]

We can't do that.

[Eric Schmidt]

This is why Pete Hegseth has to be installed right away so that he can get to the job of focusing the nation's military on war fighting. That's really what's important here.

[Roger Wicker]

I very much appreciate your focus on.

[Eric Schmidt]

Lethality in war fighting.

[Roger Wicker]

We desperately need it.

[Eric Schmidt]

That is the focus that they have and which goes on for several senators.

[Michael Barbaro]

Beyond these questions around gender and dei, where else does this questioning go?

[Eric Schmidt]

So another main area of questioning for the Democrats is just Mr. Hexith's qualifications for the job. And this is where Democrats really leaned in, as if they were treating Hegseth to a job interview.

[Roger Wicker]

Thank you, Mr. Hegseth I'm looking forward to this opportunity to talk. I want to return to the senators.

[Eric Schmidt]

Like Tim Kaine and Mark Kelly zero in on hexis conduct. They asked him about extramarital affairs that he has acknowledged he's had.

[Roger Wicker]

At that time, you were still married to your second wife, correct? I believe so. And you had just fathered a child by a woman who would later become your third wife, Correct.

[Eric Schmidt]

They asked him about allegations of sexual assault.

[Roger Wicker]

Now, if it had been a sexual assault, that would be disqualifying to be Secretary of Defense, wouldn't it? It was a false claim then and a false claim now. If it had been a sexual assault, that would be disqualifying to be Secretary of Defense, wouldn't it? That was a false claim. So you talking about a hypothetical?

[Eric Schmidt]

They asked him about reports of his excessive drinking at the Grand Hyatt at.

[Roger Wicker]

Washington D.C. you were noticeably intoxicated and had to be carried up to your room. Is that true or false? Anonymous smears. While in Louisiana on official business for cva, did you take your staff, including young female staff members, to a strip club? Absolutely not. Anonymous smears.

[Eric Schmidt]

All of which is to say, you know, with this kind of background, you know, how, how in the world can we, you know, endorse you as is the head of the Defense Department? We're hiring you to be the CEO.

[Roger Wicker]

Of one of the most complex, largest organizations in the world.

[Eric Schmidt]

And in fact, Gary Peters, one of the senators from Michigan, basically equated the Senate, at least the committee here, as a board of directors. And they're kind of grilling Hecseth on his limited job experiences.

[Roger Wicker]

What's the largest number of people you've ever supervised or had in an organization in your career? Not three million. No, I don't expect that. No one.

[Eric Schmidt]

Very few people have ever had that experience. But how many? It's a straight up question.

[Roger Wicker]

I think we had over 100 full time staff at Concerned Vets, Vets for America, roughly, with thousands of volunteers. So 100.

[Eric Schmidt]

And Peters in particular says, you got to be kidding me.

[Roger Wicker]

I don't know of any corporate board.

[Eric Schmidt]

Of directors that would hire a CEO.

[Roger Wicker]

For a major company.

[Eric Schmidt]

If they came and said, you know, I supervised 100 people before, you wouldn't be hired as a CEO of one of the biggest companies in the country. And that's basically what the Pentagon is. You're basically being hired as the CEO of the Defense Department. Do you think that the way to.

[Roger Wicker]

Raise the minimum standards of the people.

[Eric Schmidt]

Who serve us is to lower the standards for the Secretary of defense that.

[Roger Wicker]

We have someone who has never managed.

[Eric Schmidt]

An organization, more than a hundred people is going to come in. In response to all this, the Republicans kind of turn the idea of job qualifications inside out.

[Roger Wicker]

Mr. Hegseth, it, it, it seems to me that you've supervised far more people than the average United States senator supervises to do.

[Eric Schmidt]

You had Senator Wicker, the chairman, basically making a joke out of it, saying, you know, how many people do we supervise?

[Roger Wicker]

How many senators have showed up drunk to vote at night?

[Eric Schmidt]

Then you have Senator Mullen of Oklahoma, who's basically saying, wait a minute. You know, who among us hasn't had a drink too many at work or had an affair?

[Roger Wicker]

You guys make sure you make a big show and point out the hypocrisy because the man's made a mistake and you want to sit there and say that he's not qualified. Give me a joke.

[Eric Schmidt]

Another Republican senator, a new senator, Tim Sheehy, a former Navy SEAL, also weighed in on this.

[Roger Wicker]

How many rounds of 5.56 can you fit into the magazine of an M4 rifle? Depends on the magazine, but standard issue is 30, Senator. And what size round does the M9 Beretta standard issue sidearm for the military fire?

[Eric Schmidt]

A 9 millimeter, basically making the case that Hexeth has the experience that matters most. And he goes on to grill him about, you know, what kind of ammunition goes in certain kind of rifles and what tactics would you use in certain situations.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right. And Hexeth answers them all, like kind of rapid fire. And he seems to get the answers right.

[Eric Schmidt]

Yeah, he talks about, you know, what kind of batteries and night vision goggles. And it's just, it's kind of like this is what real warriors care about, you know, not this other stuff. Let's, let's get on with what's really important here. The Republicans seem to be saying right.

[Michael Barbaro]

And by the end, it's very interesting, Democrats have basically been saying, you're not technically qualified to run the Department of Defense in the way that we think about previous secretaries of defense, and therefore the DoD under you will be a mess. And Republicans are saying no, actually, because he has the right kind of experience and because he's gonna root out what they would describe as kind of woke DEI culture in the military. He's actually gonna save the Department of Defense from the current mess. As they see it, they're both kind of talking right past each other, the Democrats and Republicans.

[Eric Schmidt]

Exactly. And along the way, Democrats just seem completely unconvinced by any of this approach, Democrats are underlying. This guy is just a yes man for the President. He will do anything. He is so loyal to the president. He could even violate human rights or other laws or other, you know, other norms and conventions, you know, to satisfy him. Mr. Hessick, welcome. Welcome to the committee.

[Roger Wicker]

Thank you, Senator.

[Eric Schmidt]

You've made several references. There's this interesting exchange that Hexeth has with Senator Angus King of Maine. You wrote in your book just last year, if we're going to send our boys to fight, and it should be boys, we need to unleash them to win. Later on, our boys should, where he talks about the rules of war and the law of armed conflict and what US Soldiers should and should shouldn't be put into place having to do.

[Roger Wicker]

We fight enemies also, Senator, as, as our generation understands that play by no rules. They use civilians as human shields. So are you saying they target women and shield the Geneva.

[Eric Schmidt]

We don't do that.

[Roger Wicker]

Rules. We follow rules. But we don't need burdensome rules of engagement make it impossible for us to win these wars.

[Eric Schmidt]

It gets to, you know, hexes. As a guy who used to be on the ground in these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, this is suspicion of higher officials, including perhaps some lawyers who put restrictions on the soldiers who are going after bad guys. In Hextech's view.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right.

[Roger Wicker]

We are a country that fights by the rule of law, and our men and women always do. And yet we have too many people here in air conditioned offices that like to point fingers at the guys in dark and dangerous places, the gals in helicopters in enemy territory who are doing things that people in Washington D.C. would never dare to do or send.

[Michael Barbaro]

Eric, what was so surprising about that is that here you have a nominee to run the military saying that in his mind, there are moments where soldiers perhaps don't need to follow the chain of command, which is a weird message to send when you want to be the head of the military.

[Eric Schmidt]

If not, it may not mean to follow, not follow, but at least to challenge. To challenge the higher authority. And again, that puts Hexeth back in where he's been and where he's most comfortable. Comfortable. He's the grunt. He's, you know, he's an officer who is on the ground in the fight. He's certainly indicating challenging a chain of command or higher authorities that don't have these priorities in mind that he does. This is just another moment where Hegseth is kind of showing he's going to be a very unconventional defense secretary. Going back, he's going to be a disruptor just like his boss.

[Roger Wicker]

This concludes today's hearing. I want to thank the witnesses for and their families. And this hearing is adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Michael Barbaro]

Eric. By the end of the hearing, it very much felt like every Democrat in that room was signaling that they will be opposing Hegseth. And my sense is that all the Republicans on that committee are going to be voting for Hegseth, and so he will be recommended by this committee. And if we assume that the same scenario plays out in the full Senate, then Hegseth most likely becomes the next secretary of defense. And it would seem like there's some risk here, especially for the Democrats in the Senate, that whether they mean to or not, in their opposition to Hegseth, they're kind of reinforcing the message of the election itself, which is that Trump is the candidate of government disruption, which the majority of Americans voted for, and Democrats are the party that guards the status quo. What do you make of that?

[Eric Schmidt]

I think you're right, Michael, that this election was about change and was about disruption. I think the Democrats have had to pick and choose which of these key cabinet offices they're going to challenge on some, such as its secretary of state. They're going to go along with this, most likely, but they've drawn the line at the Pentagon, at least for now. But they just think he is the wrong guy at the wrong time at this place. In this case, they seem fine with the risk that they're going against the trend of disruption. The Pentagon is too important, too important an institution to put in the hands of such an inexperienced and unfit candidate, in their view.

[Michael Barbaro]

Well, Eric, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

[Eric Schmidt]

Thank you.

[Michael Barbaro]

On Tuesday night, Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa, whose vote is considered decisive for Hegseth's confirmation, said that she would support his nomination, all but assuring that he will become the next secretary of Defense. We'll be right back.

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[Michael Barbaro]

Here's what else you need to know. Day officials in California now say it may take weeks or longer to fully extinguish the largest of the wildfires that have ravaged greater Los Angeles. On Tuesday, heavy winds ignited several new fires, but many of them were quickly brought under control, and US securities regulators have sued Elon Musk in federal court over his conduct in purchasing Twitter. According to regulators, Musk violated securities laws in 2022 by amassing a large stake in the social media company without filing the required notification. But because of Musk's close relationship with with President Elect Trump, it's likely that the incoming administration may seek to drop the lawsuit. Today's episode was produced by Rob Zypko, Rochelle Banja and Carlos Prieto. It was edited by N.J. davis Lynn and Maria Byrne, contains original music by Dan Powell and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for the Daily I'm Michael Balbaro. See you tomorrow.

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