Federal Troops Enter L.A. — and the Trump-Musk Feud Hardens

Summary

Summary of "Federal Troops Enter L.A. — and the Trump-Musk Feud Hardens"

Release Date: June 9, 2025
Podcast: The Daily by The New York Times
Hosts: Michael Barbaro, Rachel Abrams, Natalie Kitroeff

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The Daily, hosts Michael Barbaro, along with Los Angeles Bureau Chief Shawn Hubler and White House correspondent Jonathan Swan, delve into two major developments unfolding over an eventful weekend. The first focuses on President Donald Trump's unprecedented decision to deploy 2,000 National Guard troops in Los Angeles to quell ongoing protests against his immigration policies. The second examines the escalating feud between Trump and Elon Musk, once allies but now bitter adversaries.

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2. Federal Deployment in Los Angeles

Background and Initial Deployment

The episode begins with President Trump deploying 2,000 National Guard troops from the National Guard to Los Angeles in response to protests against his stringent immigration policies. Shawn Hubler provides a detailed account of the events leading up to this decision:

"In Los Angeles, federal agents in military gear arrived outside a clothing wholesaler late Friday afternoon to arrest individuals believed to have been deported previously but had returned. This military-style operation led to panic among bystanders, igniting spontaneous protests."
(03:19)

Escalation and Governor's Response

As protests intensified, Governor Gavin Newsom opposed Trump's move, arguing that federal intervention would exacerbate tensions:

"Governor Newsom tells the president that this is only going to inflame the situation, that sending in the National Guard... is purposefully inflammatory."
(07:04)

Despite assurances from local authorities that the situation was under control, Trump proceeded with the federal deployment:

"President Trump ignores the governor, and by dusk, he federalizes the National Guard, sending 2,000 troops into Los Angeles."
(08:25)

Implications and Proportionality

Shawn Hubler critiques the proportionality of the response:

"No, it does not seem proportional to the situation on the ground... This was not a real breakdown in social order."
(11:35)

He draws parallels to the 1992 Los Angeles riots, emphasizing that the current deployment lacks the severe unrest warranting such a military presence:

"This was not that. This was not even an echo of that."
(12:33)

Current Situation and Future Outlook

As of the episode's recording, the National Guard is primarily stationed around federal buildings without actively suppressing protests. Governor Newsom has requested their withdrawal, labeling the deployment a breach of state sovereignty:

"This appears to be a real showdown... Looks like the president wants a fight and it looks like Los Angeles could very well give him one."
(13:03)

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3. The Trump-Musk Feud Intensifies

From Allies to Adversaries

Jonathan Swan explores the rapid deterioration of the relationship between President Trump and Elon Musk. Initially showcasing a strong alliance, tensions surfaced sharply in recent days:

"In the space of less than a week, Donald Trump and Elon Musk went from being best friends in the Oval Office to Elon Musk saying, actually, I think DJT may be a pedophile."
(19:32)

Catalysts for the Fallout

Key events leading to the feud include Trump's abrupt withdrawal of Jared Isaacman's NASA appointment after presenting Musk with opposition research:

"Trump starts reading aloud to Musk... these donations that Isaacman had made to Democratic politicians... Musk is sitting there kind of taking it."
(24:35)

This public humiliation led Trump to withdraw Isaacman's nomination, deeply wounding Musk and prompting his subsequent attacks on Trump.

Musk's Retaliation and Accusations

Musk's response escalated the conflict:

"Musk called the bill a, quote, disgusting abomination."
(17:30)

"Elon posted on X: 'Trump is in the Epstein files.'"
(17:47)

These accusations marked a significant departure from their previously cordial interactions, framing the feud in highly contentious terms.

Analysis of Leverage and Future Relations

Jonathan Swan assesses the power dynamics between the two figures:

"Trump has the power to inflict extreme harm on Musk's businesses... that leverage exceeds any leverage that Elon Musk has."
(27:15)

Despite this imbalance, Musk's immense wealth and influence afford him certain retaliatory capabilities. However, Swan anticipates a transactional truce rather than a reconciliation:

"They don't have this best buddy bromance type relationship... but I wouldn't be surprised if they come to some form of an agreement where they don't attack each other."
(29:17)

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4. Conclusion

This episode of The Daily highlights a turbulent weekend marked by President Trump's controversial use of federal power in Los Angeles and the unraveling of a high-profile alliance with Elon Musk. The deployment of the National Guard in L.A. without state approval underscores the increasing centralization of authority, while the Trump-Musk feud exemplifies the volatile intersections of politics, business, and personal relationships. Both narratives reflect broader themes of power dynamics, governance, and the fragility of alliances in the current political climate.

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Notable Quotes:

• Shawn Hubler: "This is perfectly legal. He was acting under a provision of Title 10 of the US Government Code..." (09:21)

• Jonathan Swan: "Trump very well understands that's his leverage... that's Trump's leverage exceeds any leverage that Elon Musk has." (27:15)

• Shawn Hubler: "This appears to be a real showdown... Looks like the president wants a fight and it looks like Los Angeles could very well give him one." (13:03)

---

Produced by Rachelle Banja, Diana Wynn, Eric Krupke, and Alex Stern. Edited by Lexi Diaw. Featuring original music by Rowan Misto, Pat McCusker, Marion Lozano, and Diane Wong.

Transcript

[Sue Craig]

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[Michael Barbaro]

And services tailored to meet your needs.

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Today and goals for tomorrow. Learn [e-mail] Commercial Member FDIC from New.

[Michael Barbaro]

York Times, I'm Michael Balbaro. This is the Daily during an extraordinary weekend, President Trump deployed 2,000 troops from the National Guard to suppress a protest in Los Angeles against his own immigration policies. And his bitter breakup with the world's richest man, Elon Musk, entered a new stage of acrimony.

[Jonathan Swan]

Today.

[Michael Barbaro]

My colleagues, Los Angeles Bureau Chief Shawn Hubler and White House correspondent Jonathan Swan, walk us through an eventful 48 hours. It's Monday, June 9th. Sean, you appear to be in your car.

[Shawn Hubler]

That's right.

[Michael Barbaro]

Why are you in your car?

[Shawn Hubler]

Because Los Angeles is a very big place and to cover Los Angeles is to be in your car most of the time.

[Michael Barbaro]

Fair enough. Well, thank you for doing this from your car. Cause I'm sure it's not a dream scenario. I just want to explain something. We had originally planned to make an episode for Monday about the acrimonious feud between President Trump and Elon Musk when an even bigger story emerged from the city. You cover for the Times as bureau chief. So we want you to tell us that story, the story you're recovering from your car, about how we reached this point where the president has deployed the National Guard to put down protests in the city, which are still very much ongoing as we talk to you at almost 8:00pm Eastern Time.

[Shawn Hubler]

So this has been an issue that's been kind of building for quite a while. In California, there have been periodic immigration enforcement actions around the state. There have been immigration agents that have showed up at public schools doing welfare checks. There's been a lot of wariness and nervousness around immigration enforcement all over the state in California. But in Los Angeles, it really came to a head at the end of last week on a Friday in a part of Los Angeles that is very dense and very busy. So on Friday afternoon, outside of a clothing wholesaler, Immigration and Custom enforcement agents showed up. And they showed up to start arresting people who had been deported once already but who they believed had come back.

[Michael Barbaro]

Got it. So they were there to detain them and probably to deport them again.

[Shawn Hubler]

That's right. So federal agents come into this clothing wholesaler about 1:30 in the afternoon and they show up and they start detaining people, you know, employees inside this business and loading them into vans as other agents in riot gear start to kind of close in on the area. And people inevitably, in this cramped, closed space start to freak out and make phone calls. And word gets out and people start to show up and gather around. And in this kind of military display of power, these federal agents start to disperse the crowd. And they're dressed in military gear and they're driving, you know, sort of military tactical vehicles and trucks. And just sort of the show of force is so unnerving to people that protests erupt.

[Michael Barbaro]

And this is clearly now a confrontation, from what you're describing, between protesters and federal agents. It's explicit.

[Shawn Hubler]

It is an explicit confrontation between federal agents and activists and also just general members of the working public in downtown Los Angeles. There were a hundred people who were arrested, according to the U.S. attorney's office. And things did eventually calm down, but the sense was that this was sort of a one and done, you know, outburst that had happened kind of organically and that it hadn't gone too badly. That was on Friday night.

[Michael Barbaro]

So by Saturday, the sense is that the worst of this is, is potentially over.

[Shawn Hubler]

Right then Saturday morning, about 20 miles away from downtown Los Angeles, in a working class suburb called Paramount, word has gotten out that there's going to probably be another immigration action enforcement at this Home Depot where there are a lot of immigrant laborers. And word begins to spread that there might be this enforcement action, that there might be a sweep, that they might be rounding up day laborers. And so protesters begin to show up, crowds begin to gather.

[Michael Barbaro]

So suddenly, it doesn't necessarily look like the worst of this is over.

[Shawn Hubler]

Suddenly it's apparent that the worst of this may not be over at all. This incident, too, involves authorities in military gear and begins to escalate. You know, over the course of the day, we see you for what you.

[Michael Barbaro]

Are, a terrorist organization, ICE out of Paramount.

[Elon Musk]

You are not welcome here.

[Shawn Hubler]

People protest, they yell things, they throw rocks at cars, they sort of clash with federal agents.

[Michael Barbaro]

Hey, what happened to you, bro?

[Shawn Hubler]

They shot you in the head? You all right? And so as Saturday morning gives way to Saturday afternoon gives way to Saturday night, the authorities order the crowd to disperse and start again to disperse them with pepper spray and flashbang grenades and so on. And as all of this is unfolding kind of throughout the day in Los Angeles, word gets out that President Trump has been on the phone with Governor Newsom and has told him that he's planning to send in the National Guard.

[Michael Barbaro]

And what does California's governor say in response in this call?

[Shawn Hubler]

He says Mr. President, that's not a good idea. Governor Newsom tells President Trump that this is only going to inflame the situation, that sending in the National Guard, more military force is only going to terrify Californians and or incite people who are on the fringes to do even more violent and crazy things that no good can come of it. And in any case, it's not necessary because Governor Newsom tells the president, look, we're handling this. We can handle this. We have, you know, local authorities who can disperse the protesters. It isn't out of control. The governor tells the President, it is actually in control. As a matter of fact, at one point in the city of Los Angeles on Saturday, the Los Angeles Police Department put out a press release commending the protesters within LA city limits for conducting civil disobedience in such a peaceful way. And whatever you may be seeing on social media, it's easily quelled. Nevertheless, President Trump ignores the governor, and by dusk or so in Los Angeles, he has issued this order federalizing the national guard and sending 2,000 troops into Los Angeles.

[Michael Barbaro]

And, Sean, just explain for those of us who don't think a lot about what it means for the president to federalize the National Guard, which has always been this complicated hybrid, state, federal entity, what it means for the president to do this and do it the way he did over the objections of.

[Shawn Hubler]

It is highly unusual for the President to commandeer the National Guard. The National Guards are usually controlled by governors, and when they're deployed for something, it's usually something big, and it's usually with the governor's consent and often with the governor's request. You know, in many ways, this was something that was sort of the worst nightmare of California, something that California authorities had seen coming and had been concerned about, and, in fact, actually had even gamed out a little bit in the run up to the election.

[Michael Barbaro]

Just explain that.

[Shawn Hubler]

Well, in Trump's first term, he talked then about wanting to use the National Guard to put down protests, to put down the George Floyd protests, for example.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right.

[Shawn Hubler]

And there was also talk in the run up to the election about using the National Guard to do things like help with immigration enforcement. And so there was concern long before the election in California that we may have gotten through the President's first term without something like this happening in California, but we might not get through two terms, and that this was almost certainly going to happen, and what was California going to do when it did? And the reason for this is that authorities here knew that the law wasn't going to give them a lot of options. What the President is doing is perfectly legal. And he was acting under a provision of something called Title 10 of the US Government Code that allows him to summon the National Guard to see, too, that federal authorities are able to conduct the people's business without interference. And so that was the provision under which he decided to call up the Guard. But what Governor Newsom and Mayor Karen Bass and many other folks in Southern California are saying is that, yeah, legal or not, this is not what the National Guard is supposed to be used for, that this is, as the governor put it, purposefully inflammatory. And that, in fact, it was the federal government that was the problem here, that it was their presence, their military attitude, their confrontational attitude that was really causing the problem and creating a risk for everybody involved.

[Michael Barbaro]

Sean, I'm curious. I mean, those are Democratic officials who may have many layers of objections to what the President has done here. Some may be principled, some may involve some politics. Based on your reporting, based on what our colleagues have seen, does sending the National Guard out to contain the protests you have described, which sound like they have been meaningful and at times have gotten violent, but whose scale is a little hard to measure, does it seem proportional to the situation on the ground there?

[Shawn Hubler]

No, it does not seem proportional to the situation on the ground. From the standpoint of anyone who's lived in Los Angeles for any length of time, these protests are. They're nowhere close to the level of protest, the level of disruption that the National Guard has been called in to address in the past. Look, I was in Los Angeles in 1992. 1992 was the last time the National Guard was sent to Los Angeles to put down a riot.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right. At the request of the governor.

[Shawn Hubler]

At the request of the governor. And that was done with the approval of most of the public. I was here when the riots broke out. They were all over the city. They involved bricks and rocks and bottles being thrown at traffic, people being killed, people being pulled out of their cars and trucks and beaten up to near death.

[Michael Barbaro]

A real breakdown in social order.

[Shawn Hubler]

This was not that. This was not even an echo of that.

[Michael Barbaro]

Well, Sean, to the degree that the National Guard is now there at this hour, what are they doing exactly? How is this working? And as best you can tell, is it as Governor Newsom and the Democratic leaders in the state fear inflaming the situation, or is this show of federal military might bringing these at times violent protests to an end?

[Shawn Hubler]

So right now, the National Guard troops seem to be sort of gathered around guarding federal buildings. They seem to be refraining from confrontations with protesters, but it certainly is not quelling the protests. So far, the protests have been scattered and sporadic and there have been some clashes, but this is not going away and this appears to be a real showdown. And Governor Newsom formally asked to pull the National Guard out of Los Angeles. He called the president's deployment order unlawful. He said we didn't have a problem until Trump got involved. This is a serious breach of state sovereignty and inflaming tensions while pulling resources from where they're actually needed, the governor said. And there are a lot of folks who really see this as a situation in which the longer the National Guard troops or any sort of military force is deployed in connection with these immigration enforcement, that the more likely it is that people who are civilians will be arrested, that there will be serious confrontations with protesters, and that this will be framed increasingly in political terms and that this is going to only escalate as time goes on. And as one of the political experts here in Los Angeles who I interviewed today said to me, it looks like the president wants a fight and it looks like Los Angeles could very well give him one.

[Michael Barbaro]

Well, Sean, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

[Shawn Hubler]

Thank you, Michael. My pleasure.

[Michael Barbaro]

On Sunday evening, the situation in downtown Los Angeles appeared to deteriorate. A group of protesters attacked five driverless taxis, slashing their tires, smashing their windows, spray painting them with anti ice messages and setting at least three of them on fire. After the break, Jonathan Swan on what's actually behind Trump's very public breakup with Elon Musk.

[Shawn Hubler]

Foreign.

[Michael Barbaro]

We'Ll be right back.

[Elon Musk]

Tariff and trade policies are dynamic, supply chain squeezed and cash flow tighter than ever. You need total visibility from global shipments to tariff impacts to real time cash flow. That's NetSuite by Oracle, your AI powered business management suite. Trusted by over 41,000 businesses. NetSuite brings accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one suite to help you know what's stuck, what it's costing you and how to pivot fast if your revenues are at least in the seven figures. Download the free ebook Navigating Global 3 Insights for Leaders at netsuite.com NYT this.

[Sue Craig]

Is Sue Craig, investigative reporter for the New York Times. People keep secrets, we all do. But it gets tricky when it's a person with significant power. And the secret is big, say a conflict of interest, government corruption or covering up abuse. When it comes to violations of the public trust, unethical or illegal activity and people's lives are affected, we believe you deserve to know. But people with a lot of power also have the means to make sure their secrets stay hidden. So you need organizations like the New York Times to say, let's investigate this. Let's put resources behind uncovering the truth. And that's what I do. It's a 247 commitment. And it means that sometimes I can't publish until I've spent months or even years following every lead and checking every fact. All those resources, they're available to us because of New York Times subscribers. If you'd like to support this kind of work, you can [e-mail] subscribe.

[Shawn Hubler]

The bromance is definitely over. The Elon Musk and Donald Trump alliance has gone up in flames, Total and utter flames.

[Michael Barbaro]

Elon Musk is blasting a massive spending.

[Shawn Hubler]

Bill back by President Trump.

[Sue Craig]

Musk called the bill a, quote, disgusting abomination.

[Michael Barbaro]

Trump clapping back. He knew everything about it. He had no problem with it.

[Shawn Hubler]

All of a sudden he had a problem.

[Jonathan Swan]

And it didn't take long for Musk to respond to say, without me, Trump.

[Michael Barbaro]

Would have lost the election.

[Shawn Hubler]

Trump threatens to terminate Musk's government contracts. Writing the easiest way to save money in our budget, billions and billions of dollars, is to terminate Elon's governmental subsidies and contracts.

[Jonathan Swan]

The president said Musk had Trump derangement.

[Michael Barbaro]

Syndrome, I guess they call it.

[Shawn Hubler]

But then Elon posted on X time to drop the really big bomb and wrote that Trump is, quote, in the Epstein files.

[Michael Barbaro]

The accusation from Musk is about as.

[Jonathan Swan]

Nasty as it gets.

[Michael Barbaro]

Accusing somebody of being a pedophile and covering it up.

[Shawn Hubler]

The president also says he has no desire to repair his relationship with Musk, accusing the billionaire of being, quote, disrespectful, respectful to the office of the president. We're now seeing this completely fraying relationship on full display. It's very remarkable. A public meltdown unlike anything the country has ever seen.

[Michael Barbaro]

Jonathan, you're traveling with President Trump on what's turning out to be a very consequential weekend. We just spoke with our colleague Sean Hubler in Los Angeles about the implications of Trump's really historic decision to dispatch the National Guard in that city without the permission of the state's governor or leaders. We turn to you because you have been reporting on something else happening over the past couple of days and that's this now days long and high stakes feud between Trump and Elon Musk, which continues right up until now. And you've spent a fair amount of time trying to understand what's really been at the heart of it. So what have you found?

[Jonathan Swan]

Yeah, it seemed worth trying to understand how in the space of less than a week, Donald Trump and Elon Musk went from being best friends in the Oval Office to Elon Musk saying, actually, I think DJT may be a pedophile. You know, maybe on the Epstein, listen. So maybe there's some things that happen behind the scenes that we need to figure out. And so what I set out to do with my colleagues, Maggie Haberman, Teddy Schliefer, Tyler Page, or Ryan Mac, was to figure out what led to this. And what we found is that you remember this press conference that Donald Trump held in the Oval Office on Elon Musk's last day in the White House today?

[Michael Barbaro]

It's about a man named Elon, and.

[Shawn Hubler]

He'S one of the greatest business leaders and innovators the world has ever produced. He stepped forward.

[Jonathan Swan]

So this was two Fridays ago where there was this public display of friendship.

[Michael Barbaro]

I expect to remain a friend and an advisor. Certainly, if there's anything the President wants me to do, I'm at the President's service.

[Jonathan Swan]

There was an indication that they would continue to be great partners even as he left the government.

[Shawn Hubler]

Elon, as a presentation from our country.

[Jonathan Swan]

Thank you.

[Michael Barbaro]

Thank you, Elon.

[Jonathan Swan]

Thank you.

[Michael Barbaro]

Take care of yourself. Thank you.

[Jonathan Swan]

All. Fake H At that point, the relationship was extremely strained, particularly from Elon Musk's side. He, over a period of months, was feeling more and more like the work he had been doing inside the Trump administration was for nothing. So from his perspective, he comes in, he starts doge the Department of Government Efficiency with this stated mission to cut a trillion dollars out of the federal budget. He slashes and burns parts of the government in a pretty haphazard way. Gets a lot of tough, critical media coverage as a result of that.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right?

[Jonathan Swan]

And at the end of all of this, from his perspective, whatever the number is, it's. It's, you know, it's some number of billions. It gets wiped out by the big, beautiful bill, the main piece of legislation that Donald Trump is pushing through Congress for tax cuts.

[Michael Barbaro]

Just to explain what you mean, you know, the tax cuts in that bill are so big that independent, nonpartisan analysts literally explain that it's gonna add $2.4 trillion in debt to the country.

[Jonathan Swan]

Right? And then actually, on this very last day in the White House, he gets another punch in the face. What happened immediately before that meeting was the President was in his dining room, which adjoins the Oval Office, and he gets presented by an aide with a Packet of opposition research or negative information about a man named Jared Isaacman, who is a close friend of Elon Musk's, who Donald Trump had appointed to run NASA. This was one of the big things that Elon Musk had asked of Donald Trump during transition. He really wanted this. Obviously, NASA is hugely important to Elon Musk's rocket business, SpaceX. It's also, you know, his whole mission of getting to Mars. There is no federal agency more important to Elon Musk than NASA. Yeah. So Trump names Jared Isaacman as his NASA administrator, and he was set to actually be confirmed with a vote from the full Senate the very next week. But right before the press conference where they're giving Musk this very warm farewell, Trump is handed this packet with all of these donations that Isaacman has made to Democrats. And right after the press conference, the cameras stop, the press gets kicked out, and then there's this extraordinary meeting in the Oval Office.

[Michael Barbaro]

Wow.

[Jonathan Swan]

With quite a large group and Elon Musk. And Trump starts reading aloud to Musk and the room these donations that Isaacman had made to Democratic politicians and saying, you know, this is not good. We can't have this. And what proceeds is this extraordinary scene where Trump is essentially humiliating Musk in front of a large group of White House staff.

[Michael Barbaro]

But can I just make sure I understand this scene you're describing? Right after Trump has just warmly said goodbye to Elon Musk in the Oval Office. And the doors are closed, the cameras leave, the president is starting to read to everyone in the room, including Musk, from an opposition research file in which he's finding more and more things about Musk's choice to run NASA that he doesn't like, and he's subjecting Musk to that.

[Jonathan Swan]

It's a public humiliation, and Musk is sitting there kind of taking it. And one other thing Trump does is in front of Musk, he asks different aides in the room, well, would you hire him? Would you? Would you hire him?

[Michael Barbaro]

Would you hire Jared Isaacman?

[Jonathan Swan]

Yeah. Yeah. Would you do it? And no one really stands up for him in the room. And eventually, Trump decides to withdraw the nomination of Isaac Mutton.

[Michael Barbaro]

So essentially, what you and our colleagues have found is that Elon Musk, the first buddy, by the time he's on his last day of service in this administration, literally the day that he's saying goodbye to the president, he's deeply wounded. He's wounded because the president, in his mind, has completely undermined the work he's done for Doge and blown A hole in the budget that Elon Musk was trying to shrink by cutting government spending. And the President is about to kneecap Musk's choice to run NASA, the single most important agency in the government, to Musk. And that wounded Elon Musk is the person who leaves the White House and starts this feud.

[Jonathan Swan]

That's exactly right. And you have this effort from people close to Trump to say that this is all self interest from Musk. It's really because the big, beautiful bill got rid of subsidies for electric vehicles. And I'm sure there's some truth to him being irritated about the way that they handled electric vehicle subsidies. But what we found in our reporting is that the much more important reasons for this feud was that Musk felt over a period of weeks that his work for Doge was being canceled out by their tax bill. And what you saw in the next few days is Musk moving in his public commentary on X from criticizing the legislation, you know, calling it a disgusting abomination, to attacking Trump personally.

[Michael Barbaro]

Jonathan, let's say for the sake of argument, that this relationship really is over, or entering a very different stage of itself that's deeply diminished. Who has, based on your reporting, more to lose from it being over. Which I guess is another way of asking which of these men, the president or the world's richest man, has greater leverage over the other.

[Jonathan Swan]

I will answer that question, but I think it's really important to take a slight step back and just understand that Trump doesn't have normal human relationships. He is transactional. If he can see value in somebody, if he could see that someone could do something for him. Donald Trump is always open to some form of reconciliation. I flew with Trump on Air Force One on Friday afternoon to New Jersey. On the flight, I asked Trump about Musk. I said to him, you posted on Truth Social the other day that a great way to save money for the federal government would be to cancel Elon Musk's billions of dollars worth of contracts with the federal government. I said, how seriously did you take that? And Trump said, well, you know, we're going to look at it. We're going to look at everything. You know, he's got a lot of subsidy, gets a lot of money. Then he goes, but I'm only going to do it if it's fair, you know. And it was this sort of like, nice companies you've got there. Be a shame if something would happen to them. So Trump very well understands that's his leverage. Of course he has the power to inflict Extreme harm on Musk's businesses, which have a huge amount of exposure to the federal government, in particular, Space X. I mean, we've seen that Donald Trump is willing to use the levers of federal power to go after his enemies, whether it be law firms, Harvard University, you know, go down the list. So everyone, including Elon Musk, presumably knows that this threat is real. So that's Trump's leverage. I think that leverage exceeds any leverage that Elon Musk has. But people close to Trump are aware that Musk is not without leverage.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right.

[Jonathan Swan]

You know, you can tick through the obvious stuff. He's the richest guy in the world. He's, you know, the biggest donor in Republican politics. But there's also another thing which people don't talk about so much in public, but they will certainly talk about privately, which is he's seen a lot. He has been allowed into a lot of rooms. He had a lot of exposure to very sensitive conversations.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right.

[Jonathan Swan]

So people close to Trump think that this probably ends up in some form of a transactional truce. They're not going to have this best buddy bromance type relationship that they had before, but I wouldn't be surprised if they come to some form of an agreement where they don't attack each other. Personally, I don't know if there's a financial component to this. I mean, Musk had already promised Trump that he would give $100 million to his outside groups ahead of the 2026 midterm elections. He hasn't given that money yet. So does Donald Trump say, guess what? The price just went up?

[Michael Barbaro]

Hmm.

[Jonathan Swan]

I don't know whether he will, but he's done similar making people pay a price for peace. But this is the state of where we're at with these relationships and also with Trump's exercise of power in his second term.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right. And in that way, Jonathan, this doesn't seem entirely unrelated thematically to what is happening right now in Los Angeles. Obviously, these are very different situations. But I'm thinking about the word power you just used, and Trump's projections of power over the past couple of days.

[Jonathan Swan]

Look, I think what you're seeing in both these instances is the improvised nature of Trump's government. This is one man making decisions very quickly with not really much of a process behind it. You know, Elon Musk asks him to run this thing called Doge. Trump says, sure, go for it.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right.

[Jonathan Swan]

And we still don't know exactly what happened behind the scenes with this deployment of the National Guard, but we certainly know it wasn't a normal process, and he's doing it over the objections of the state's governor, Gavin Newsom. So what we see in both these instances is one man exercising tremendous power with very limited and eroded checks on that power without any real form of an interagency process. So you have high risk, high speed and a lot of cars colliding.

[Michael Barbaro]

Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

[Jonathan Swan]

Thanks for having me.

[Michael Barbaro]

We'll be right back.

[Shawn Hubler]

Foreign.

[Elon Musk]

Tariff and trade policies are dynamic, supply chains squeezed and cash flow tighter than ever. You need total visibility from global shipments to tariff impacts to real time cash flow. That's NetSuite by Oracle, your AI powered business management suite. Trusted by over 41,000 businesses, NetSuite brings accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one suite to help you know what's stuck, what it's costing you and how to pivot fast if your revenues are at least in the seven figures. Download the free ebook Navigating Global 3 Insights for Leaders at netsuite.com NYT hi.

[Sue Craig]

It'S Alexa Weibel from New York Times Cooking. We've got tons of easy weeknight recipes, and today I'm making my vegetarian mushroom shawarma pitas. This recipe is just built for efficiency. You toss your mushrooms and red onion in your spices, throw them in the oven. By the time they're done, you've chopped your cabbage and you're ready to assemble. It feels crazy that this takes just 20 minutes of active time. It's just delicious. New York Times Cooking has you covered with easy dishes for busy weeknights. You can find [e-mail].

[Michael Barbaro]

Here'S what else you need to know. Day the White House, which spent months fighting legal orders to return a man it mistakenly deported to a prison in El Salvador, has returned him to the US Kilmar Abrego Garcia was flown back on Friday, ending the administration's most high profile battle with federal courts over the president's immigration policies.

[Sue Craig]

Abrego Garcia has landed in the United States to face justice.

[Michael Barbaro]

During a news conference, Attorney General Pam Bondi said that Abrego Garcia now faces federal charges of illegal, illegally transporting undocumented migrants, but it's unclear whether the government has strong evidence to prove that claim.

[Shawn Hubler]

Upon completion of his sentence, we anticipate.

[Sue Craig]

He will be returned to his home country of El Salvador.

[Michael Barbaro]

Today's episode was produced by Rachelle Banja, Diana Wynn, Eric Krupke and Alex Stern. It was edited by Lexi Diaw. Contains original music by rowan Misto, Pat McCusker, Marion Lozano and Diane Wong and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wunderly. Special thanks to Epheme Shapiro. That's it for the Daily I'm Michael Balbaro. See you tomorrow.

[Elon Musk]

Tariff and trade policies are dynamic, supply chains squeezed and cash flow tighter than ever. You need total visibility from global shipments to tariff impacts to real time cash flow. That's NetSuite by Oracle, your AI powered business management suite. Trusted by over 41,000 businesses, NetSuite brings accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one NetSuite to help you know what's stuck, what it's costing you, and how to pivot fast. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, download the free ebook Navigating Global 3 Insights for Leaders at netsuite.com NYT.