From DealBook: Alex Cooper on Building a Media Brand

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily - "From DealBook: Alex Cooper on Building a Media Brand"

Introduction

In the December 8, 2024 episode of The Daily titled "From DealBook: Alex Cooper on Building a Media Brand," host Andrew Ross Sorkin engages in a deep and insightful conversation with Alex Cooper, the powerhouse behind the immensely popular podcast Call Her Daddy. This episode delves into Cooper's remarkable journey from launching a candid, sex-focused podcast to establishing a multifaceted media empire, exploring the challenges and triumphs she faced along the way.

Alex Cooper's Journey into Podcasting

Alex Cooper's foray into podcasting was both serendipitous and strategic. Reflecting on her early aspirations, Cooper shares, "I grew up with my father as a sports television producer. I was in a television truck my whole life, wanting to be a director or producer" ([04:35]). Her passion for media was evident from a young age, but it was an unexpected career setback that propelled her into the podcasting realm. After being laid off from a sales job, Cooper identified a gap in the market for female-centric conversations—a space where women could openly discuss topics they might hesitate to share publicly.

Building a Media Brand

Cooper's initial podcast, Call Her Daddy, was a groundbreaking venture that resonated deeply with listeners. She recounts the explosive success of her debut, stating, "When episode one went up, the virality of the first three episodes was lightning in a bottle" ([05:56]). Collaborating with Dave Portnoy at Barstool Sports further amplified her reach and solidified her presence in the podcasting industry. Cooper emphasizes the importance of authenticity and pushing boundaries, noting, "You can never speak your mind too often on social media... I could keep pushing it further and further, and there was kind of no limit" ([06:30]).

Interviewing High-Profile Guests

Transitioning from a personal storytelling format, Cooper evolved into an interviewer, attracting high-profile guests, including Vice President Kamala Harris. She explains the strategic shift, "I wanted to focus on what's helpful to my audience... I did it, and it was fun" ([12:48]). Cooper's approach to interviews is rooted in creating a safe and genuine environment, which guests appreciate. "From the minute I open the door at my studio, I am so intentional about the way that I am speaking to someone. I am giving them all of my attention" ([09:27]). This method has enabled her to extract candid and impactful conversations, setting her apart from traditional media figures.

Community Building and Live Events

A cornerstone of Cooper's success is her ability to foster a strong community. She states, "What the content has built is a community of primarily women who show up every week and want to be seen and heard" ([21:25]). Leveraging this community, Cooper expanded her brand through live events and tours, successfully challenging the misconception that Gen Z prefers only virtual interactions. Her live tours sold out in seven cities, and she highlights the success of a partnership with the Red Sox, where her event was the highest-grossing night aside from Pride ([22:48]).

Relationships, Partnerships, and Business Decisions

Navigating partnerships has been integral to Cooper's growth. She candidly discusses her time at Barstool Sports and her collaboration with Dave Portnoy, addressing controversies with a pragmatic perspective. "I could ask every single woman in this room, like, what's been said about your boss? Probably similar stuff... it's everywhere" ([19:05]). Cooper also touches on her split from co-host Sophie Franklin, attributing it to differing visions and career aspirations. "We just did not align on what we wanted to do with our careers. And I think that's fine" ([20:24]).

Collaborations and Comparisons in the Podcasting World

Cooper acknowledges comparisons to other major figures in the podcasting sphere, such as Joe Rogan and Howard Stern. While she respects their influence, Cooper asserts her unique identity: "I'm Alex Cooper. I'm going to be Alex Cooper all day" ([17:47]). She emphasizes her focus on building a diverse media network, The Unwell Network, which supports emerging Gen Z creators. Cooper envisions a platform where multiple voices can thrive independently while maintaining a trusted relationship with their audience.

Reflections on Legacy Media and Advice

In a thought-provoking segment, Cooper offers advice to legacy media outlets grappling with declining trust among younger audiences. She advises, "Finding a way to find any form of humanity that is not so perfectly lined up that it feels like I'm getting sold a [expletive] ad... give those young interns more of a voice and maybe you should listen to them when they have some ideas" ([25:51]). Cooper underscores the importance of authenticity and organic connections, which resonate more deeply with Gen Z and millennial listeners compared to traditional, agenda-driven media content.

Conclusion

Alex Cooper's conversation with Andrew Ross Sorkin paints a comprehensive picture of a media mogul who has adeptly navigated the evolving landscape of podcasting and digital media. Her relentless pursuit of authenticity, community-building, and support for emerging creators has not only established her as a leading voice in podcasting but also as a formidable force in the broader media industry. Cooper's insights offer valuable lessons on adaptability, strategic partnerships, and the power of genuine engagement with audiences.

Notable Quotes

• "I was making little short form movies my whole life. And then I played Division 1 soccer in college. And so I had this obsession with working hard and creating films and content." - Alex Cooper ([04:35])

• "When episode one went up, the virality of the first three episodes was lightning in a bottle." - Alex Cooper ([05:56])

• "From the minute I open the door at my studio, I am so intentional about the way that I am speaking to someone. I am giving them all of my attention." - Alex Cooper ([09:27])

• "What the content has built is a community of primarily women who show up every week and want to be seen and heard." - Alex Cooper ([21:25])

• "I like, I'm just leading the charge a little bit here." - Alex Cooper ([23:58])

• "Finding a way to find any form of humanity that is not so perfectly lined up that it feels like I'm getting sold a [expletive] ad." - Alex Cooper ([25:51])

This episode of The Daily offers an in-depth exploration of Alex Cooper's influence in the media landscape, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of her strategies, challenges, and vision for the future of podcasting and digital media.

Transcript

[Josh]

What can you learn from Built for Change?

[Elise]

We could actually turn software into buildings and represent it in a virtual space. So we did exactly this. What will the next breakthrough mean for your enterprise?

[Alex Cooper]

Reducing that level of complexity, and you.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Can focus on where your real value is.

[Josh]

How can your business thrive in a world that's constantly evolving?

[Michael]

That is the difference. It's about breaking the silos of data, bringing all of this together.

[Elise]

Check out Built for Change, a podcast from Accenture. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Michael]

Hey, it's Michael. I'm here to let you know that this weekend we're bringing you something a little bit different from our colleagues here at the Times. It's a conversation with Alex Cooper. If you don't know, she is the host of the hit podcast Call Her Daddy. Recently, our friends over at the Dealbook Summit held a series of conversations between our colleague Andrew Ross Sorkin and a huge, varied and prominent group of people. They do this every year, but this year's guests included former President Bill Clinton, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, the chair of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, and the tennis legend Serena Williams. It was a fascinating lineup. All the conversations were important. But here at the Daily, we were especially struck by Alex Cooper and her insights into media culture and how power really works in 2024. If you don't know a lot about Alex Cooper, here's a couple of key facts. A couple years ago, she landed a deal for her podcast worth $125 million. And Time magazine has called her, quote, arguably the most successful woman in podcasting. Rolling Stone, meanwhile, has dubbed her Gen Z's Barbara Walters. And right before the election, she quite memorably interviewed Vice President Kamala Harris. On her podcast, Cooper sat down with Andrew Ostorkin to talk about her unlikely rise from hosting a pretty raunchy dating show to becoming what she is now, one of the biggest and most important voices in all of podcasting. So if you want to listen to any of the other Dealbook conversations I just mentioned, you can listen on our NYT audio app or you can search for Dealbook Summit wherever you listen. Okay, here's Andrew Ross Sorkin in conversation with Alex Cooper.

[Alex Cooper]

I consider myself Alex Cooper. I don't care if people consider me a journalist or a podcaster or just a girl that talks online every week. I know what I'm doing is changing a lot of lives, and I know a lot of women specifically have been extremely impacted by the conversations I'm having. So if you wanna put me in the box of a journalist who just interviewed The Vice President of the United States. Sure, put me there.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

This is Andrew Ross Sorkin with the New York Times, and you're listening to interviews from our annual Dealbook Summit live event recorded on December 4th in New York City. There we are. There you are.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, my God. We're here.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We're here.

[Alex Cooper]

Kind of a different vibe.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's a little bit of a different vibe.

[Alex Cooper]

Just a little.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's just a little bit of a different vibe. Alex Cooper is here. And the reason we wanted to have her here today is that the media world is really, really shifting under our feet. Who the public trusts, how they gather and get their information, who people are sharing their information with. The direction of travel seems to be moving towards podcasts. And the reigning queen is Alex Cooper. She's the host of Call Her Daddy. Her podcast is the number one podcast for women on Spotify with millions of listeners per episode. It's an, excuse me, unbelievable thing. She recently inked a deal for $125 million with Sirius XM. She also launched her own media company called trending and the Unwell Network. She's building an empire. So we want to thank you for coming and welcome the head of the Daddy Gang.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, my God. Thank you for having me. Hello, everyone.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So there's a lot to talk about here in terms of what's going on. I want to try to understand all this. I went back and re listened to your first episode ever.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, no.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Which was about sexting.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, what?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah. And now you're being called the Gen Z. Barbara Walters.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So I'm trying to just understand, if you could just help us, how this happened to you. And I don't want to say it happened to you because I think you did this, but when you started with the first episode, what you thought was going to happen?

[Alex Cooper]

So I grew up and my father was a sports television producer. So I was like in a television truck my whole life. And I was like, I want to be a director, I want to be a producer. I want to be in media in some capacity. I was making little short form movies my whole life. And then I played Division 1 soccer in college. And so I had this obsession with working hard and creating films and content. And when I graduated, I got fired from my sales job and it was the absolute best thing that ever happened to me. And I was like, what am I going to do? I'm on unemployment checks. And I decided, okay, there's clearly a huge hole in the market. There's Howard Stern and then there's no one for women, where women can actually feel like, oh, that is what I talk about with my friends when I'm behind closed doors. And we don't feel comfortable speaking about certain things in public because as women, we are at a disadvantage. Sorry, boys in the room, if you disagree, but it's the truth. So I started on episode one just talking about my life and my sexual experiences. Yes. But also it progressed to talking about my relationships and my friendships. But, yes, it was very sex heavy, and I was proud of it. I know it was salacious and I know it was out there, but I also am like a marketer at heart. And I was like, this is going to get everyone talking. And then eventually I shifted the narrative, but I think it worked.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

When do you think you knew it worked?

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, I knew it worked when we published episode one. When episode one went up, the virality of the first three episodes was lightning in a bottle. I worked with Dave Portnoy at Barstool Sports, and he was like, I've never seen something in my entire career because, again, it was just filling a hole in the market. And that's half of the reason why I did it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You worked with Dave?

[Alex Cooper]

I did.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And Barstool?

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

How important? I mean, Barstool has become a force in the influence in this country. What did you learn when you were at Barstool?

[Alex Cooper]

You can never speak your mind too often on social media. I think when you think it's a little too much, go even farther. Like, I think Dave, as crazy as he seems, maybe he's really, really smart with what he's doing. He knows exactly the type of audience that he's garnered, and people hang on to every single word he's saying. And so I think working with someone like that just made me recognize that what I was doing, I could keep pushing it further and further, and there was kind of no limit.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Did you ever worry, though, that, like, you had gone past the limit?

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, every week I was like, oh, is that a little too much? And then I was like, upload. But it kept working.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, so. But that's a question. It kept working. So I'm curious what you think of just what's happened in the culture. Because the culture has gotten more coarse, it's gotten more crude. People have been willing, maybe. And maybe the argument is that people have been willing to have conversations they weren't willing to have before.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But there's also. It's changed the tenor of the kind of conversations that people have. Is that good? Is that bad? What are we supposed to think of.

[Alex Cooper]

All of this, I think it's good and bad. I think when you look at social media right now, there's a lot of people that you can say, oh, my God, they shouldn't have a platform. Whether they're spreading misinformation or it's racist or whatever it is, where you're like, why the hell is that person given a platform? But I also think then there's the other side, with what I've done with Call Her Daddy is I am having conversations that have not been to the degree publicly talked about in a capacity, in a positive manner. Right. Like mental health, we all now know, like, mental health. Mental. No, no, no. I'm sitting down with women who are talking about their lived experiences in such detail in moments where people are like, holy shit, I don't want to hear about this. This is. Well, no, this is what's happening in real life. Listen and understand what's going on. And I think it's, if anything, moved the conversation forward to finally we're having more authenticity and it's not just this, like, perfect facade.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But you pivoted away, dare I say, from the sexting stuff. Yeah, right. Like on purpose.

[Alex Cooper]

No, I was like, I literally have nothing more to give. Like, I've said it all. I've given you all my tips. Now what else is there to do? It wasn't on purpose. I literally, like, I put it out all on the table. I was ready to move on.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And then you became an interviewer.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And one of the things I'm very curious about is you've done a lot of fascinating interviews, but you ask. I mean, I like to think that I ask some occasionally tough questions. You know, you ask like Gwyneth Paltrow, Brad Pitt, or Ben Affleck.

[Alex Cooper]

Well, we all want to know.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And so what I thought was so interesting about this is Christina Aguilera, who you interviewed, said that, quote, you feel safe to her.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you feel safe? Do you think that when you interview people, you're a safe place? Because I've been listening to a lot of these episodes, and I'm not so sure.

[Alex Cooper]

You don't feel safe. Do you feel safe right now with me?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I don't know.

[Alex Cooper]

You're the one in the position. Yeah. No, listen, I think that a lot of people, everyone is always fascinated, like, how do you get this out of people? Like, why are they telling you things that they've never said in media after 20 years? I think it's because I was raised by a therapist and my Entire life, all I did was this. It was like, sit down. Let's talk about your feelings. And I think that's, like, very taboo for a lot of people. It's like, don't talk about how you feel. If anything, don't acknowledge it ever, and just keep it moving. And when I sit down with people, from the minute I open the door at my studio, I am so intentional about the way that I am speaking to someone. I am giving them all of my attention, and I'm actually listening to what they're saying because I genuinely care, because I know the community that I have built cares. Every single thing I do is for my audience. I live and breathe it. My husband is always like, we are in a relationship together, plus a third, which is the Daddy Gang. Like, all I do is for my audience. And so, yes, I think when a celebrity sits down, they're like, oh, shit, you actually care. Like, this is kind of refreshing. You're not like, all right, next question.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, but do you think of yourself as a. This is not. No, no. Do you think of yourself as a journalist then, in a way, or do you think of yourself as an entertainer? Because the other reason I mentioned this is I think that there's this sort of interesting cross thing happening. And I don't know, to be honest, because I grew up as a traditional journalist, I can't tell if I think this is healthy or not.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, I think it's so healthy. First of all, no, I consider myself Alex Cooper. I don't care if people consider me a journalist or a podcaster or just a girl that talks online every week. I know what I'm doing is changing a lot of lives. And I know a lot of women specifically have been extremely impacted by the conversations I'm having. So if you want to put me in the box of a journalist who just interviewed the Vice President of the United States, sure, put me there. But I can also. I'm fine with podcaster, too.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay, so let's talk about that. You did just interview the vice president ahead of this last election. You had tried to avoid politics.

[Alex Cooper]

I did.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Or at least you said you were trying to avoid politics. And then what happened? Did they reach out to you? Did you reach out to them?

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, they reached out. Both sides reached out.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And so Trump reached out, too.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, yeah. We had a zoom call with Trump's team.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Tell us about that.

[Alex Cooper]

I wasn't on it. I was like, let me know how that goes. I wasn't. I wasn't on it. But they reached out and I think the interesting thought for me was, what I have built. I'm a very competitive person. Back to my athlete nature days. I'm like, how do we keep ramping this shit up? And although I didn't want to technically get into politics, I did recognize there was a larger conversation that was directly impacting my audience. Right. Joe Rogan has a conversation. He knows his audience, I know my audience. And it's a bunch of women looking for someone to advocate for them every single day. And I understand people are like, oh, God, like, you're going to focus the whole time on abortion. Yeah, I am, because it's not about abortion. It's about women's right to their body. So I thought, why not have on someone that could potentially have a huge impact on our country? And so I did it, and it was fun.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What did you. I'm actually curious, what did you think of the interview itself?

[Alex Cooper]

I thought it was fascinating. It was the fastest interview I've ever done in my life. I was like, oh, my God, I have 50 minutes. It was like 45 to 50 minutes with the vice president. And I like to get comfortable. Like, I'm in it for two hours, usually just, like, lubing the person up, like, hanging out, like, we're getting cozy. Okay. And with the vp, I was like, there was a clock on. So that was a little uncomfortable to me that I was on someone else's terms. But overall, I thought it was a very incredible conversation. And the amount of research and time I put into this interview was probably the most I've ever done in my career. Because I had. I had fracking conversations written down. I'm like, oh, we could go into this and this. But I, at the end of the day, ultimately decided I just wanted to focus on women's rights. And I know some people were like, why didn't you ask her about the border? Go watch cnn. Like, I don't know. Like, I'm going to talk about what's helpful to my audience.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There's a little bit of controversy about that podcast. Because you did. Do you know about this?

[Alex Cooper]

No. What?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Because in D.C. this interview happened in D.C. yeah. In a hotel.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah. Not in a hotel. It was like a random house.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It was like, random house. But apparently you can tell me they spent. Meaning the Harris campaign spent, like, $100,000.

[Alex Cooper]

I did know about this. It's hilarious.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

To build the studio. Yeah, that's not true. To make it look like it was the studio that you used in la.

[Alex Cooper]

My studio. That is gorgeous in Los Angeles. Doesn't even cost six figures. So I don't know how cardboard walls could cost six figures. But.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But do you think they did that? I mean, you saw.

[Alex Cooper]

Absolutely not with love to them. Oh, my God, it was gorgeous. But, like, it wasn't that nice. It wasn't like, gorgeous marble? Like. No, that was not six figures.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So Trump goes on Rogan.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you think she should have gone on Rogan?

[Alex Cooper]

I'm not the Vice President of the United States. Maybe one day. No, just kidding. I don't know. I think that's up to her. I think, like, listen, I think we had a great conversation. I think she could have hung with him. But I think at the end of the day, they clearly had a campaign strategy that I wasn't in these meetings and I just did my job.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Did you. Have you. Have you ever gone on Rogan yourself?

[Alex Cooper]

No.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What do you think of what do you think of what he does? Since you guys are. You guys are basically head to head, do you feel that way? Do you feel like he's your biggest competitor?

[Alex Cooper]

I don't think. I don't think of Joe when I'm having my morning coffee every morning. But I'm very aware of the comparison in the media. Every single article probably that's ever been written about me, Joe Rogan is in the same sentence. Which great. I mean, he's one of the biggest creators in the world. I've never met him. We had, like, a little, like, family tie when we were at Spotify together, and I have a lot of respect for what he's doing.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We'll be right back.

[Josh]

What can you learn from Built for Change?

[Elise]

We could actually turn software into buildings and represent it in a virtual space. So we did exactly this. What will the next breakthrough mean for your enterprise?

[Alex Cooper]

Reducing that level of complexity.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And you can focus on where your real value is.

[Josh]

How can your business thrive in a world that's constantly evolving?

[Michael]

That is the difference. It's about breaking the silos of data, bringing all of this together.

[Elise]

Check out Built for Change, a podcast from Accenture. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Audra Diaz Burch]

My name is Audra Diaz Burch, and I am a national correspondent covering race and identity for the New York Times. Race coverage is complicated. It can be joyous and affirming. It can be uncomfortable, but I feel like it's still absolutely necessary. Race and identity are not just understanding who you are, but who the person in front of you is and wanting to understand more about them. We're trying to wrestle down these really hard subjects and maybe not Answering the question, but asking the right questions. And listening, listening, listening a lot. The Times is dedicated to ambitious and deeply reported coverage of race and identity, and they're willing to back it up with resources. If you are curious about the world in which we live, if you're interested in who you are, where you come from, and how you relate to others, I would encourage you to subscribe to the New York Times.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You have a big deal now at SiriusXM.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And some people say that one of the reasons that SiriusXM wanted to get you is because that you could become the successor at some point to Howard Stern. What do you think of that?

[Alex Cooper]

I just am like, I. Oh, my God. I was going to say something saying, like, I have a vagina, but that was going to be inappropriate. So Britet, let's rewind. I am a woman. Like, I don't need to keep being compared to these men. I'm like, I'm Alex Cooper. I'm going to be Alex Cooper all day, and if I happen to sit next to Joe Rogan or Howard Stern, put me in the middle. But I'm. I'm not trying to be the next Howard Stern. I think Howard Stern is so talented. What he has built is incredible, and I think what I have built is also incredible.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So let's go back for. For just a moment in terms of this. This empire that you're building. No, no, I want to. I want to go back to this.

[Alex Cooper]

No, I was laughing at, like, why did I just say that? This is. This is the thing I think about all day. I'm like, why did I just say that on this stage? But it's okay.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Just go back in time because one of the. So you. So you're with Dave Portnoy and you're at bar school?

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And I should ask, by the way, just because I. I think it's a fair question asked, though I'm sure he would hate the question, which is, there's been lots of things that have been written about Dave Portnoy that are not flattering would be the politest way to put it.

[Alex Cooper]

That is polite. I like that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What do you think of that, actually, as a woman who knows him and has also read these things and may know other people or know other things about that.

[Alex Cooper]

I mean, I think I could ask every single woman in this room, like, what's been said about your boss? Probably similar stuff, if you think about any media company. I remember at Barstool, everyone was like, how do you work for Dave Portnoy? I'm like, should I go over to like. And then I named all the media companies. Everyone's like, oh, you kind of have a point. Like, it's everywhere. It's not Dave Portnoy. So I think I. If anything, it's like, of course that's what's being said about him and many men.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, I hope it's not everywhere. I really.

[Alex Cooper]

Not you. I feel like you're nice.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I really thank you. I'm trying. I'm trying. And so you're at.

[Alex Cooper]

You're. I had too many coffees today.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You're at Barstool. You're at Barstool. And we should say, by the way, you had a partner originally.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Sophie Franklin was your partner back in the day. And there was a riff, a break, which you can go read about. And there's a whole lot about that in retrospect. Do you think that was the best thing that ever happened to you? Do you find that very sad that you sort of started one way and went another way? What's likely the emotional piece of that? Because a lot of people, and I think we have a lot of business leaders here who have partners or start with partners, end up without partners. And I'm just curious how you think about that emotionally.

[Alex Cooper]

I mean, listen, I think a partnership is always going to be very difficult. I think anyone in this room that has a partner, even in life, like, it could be romantic, it can be business. Like, that is a very hard dynamic because you are two complete different people trying to come to one agreement. And when I started Call Her Daddy, Yes. I had a co host and we were from very different backgrounds. We wanted very different things. Like, I was the crazy maniac, being like, I've wanted this my entire life. I have never been more passionate about something. I'm going to drive myself through a wall until I get what I want. And I think we just had very different ideas of what success in our life looked like. I am a mother. I am never going to stop. I am going to be doing this till the end and then some. And we just did not align on what we wanted to do with our careers. And I think that's fine.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You go from Barstool, you go to Spotify, and then you go to Sirius.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So tell us about what you're trying to build here.

[Alex Cooper]

Well, I think what I've built is a lifestyle and a community of people. Right. Like, at first it started as an IP that had a catalog, and it was many episodes of me talking about my life. And then I started Interviewing people. And now I have a catalog that is obviously worth a lot of money. But aside from a catalog of just content, what the content has built is a community of primarily women who show up every week and want to be seen and heard and want to engage with the content. And from there, I thought to myself, how can I build past just a show if I do have this community that wants more? And I started the Unwell Network, which is now my company with my husband. And we have expanded where I'm now signing younger Gen Z creators to uplift their voices. And I'm very particular about who I choose that will work at this company. But I'm basically curating more and more creators so that when someone goes to my network, they know who I am and they like my content, and so they trust me to essentially create a palette for them of, like, what else do you want to listen to? Here you go. There's five other shows on top of that. Because of the community aspect, I wanted to launch live events. I think a lot of people think that Gen Z wants to sit behind their phones and they don't want to go to live events. That's completely wrong. They want to be in person. They want to experience things. And so this past year and a half, I've launched two live tours that sold out in seven cities, and we've done live events. I did an event with the Red Sox where I showed up and we did an activation. We had more Unwell jerseys on women than Red Sox jerseys. Love you, Red Sox. And the GM said it was the highest grossing night of the year, aside from pride. And it was on a random Wednesday against the worst team in the league. So it was a pretty big success. So it's live events. We have touring now. We have television shows, we have movies, we have podcasting, and I never sleep.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There's going to be some other stuff which I want to talk about in just a second, but I want to ask you this, about building other stars. Effectively, is the goal long term, to always have a show and to be the face and brand of this platform? Or, you know, you have Alex Earle now who is taking off in a huge way. Right. She may become massively popular, which would be great, I would imagine, for the network.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But how do you think about that long term? Do you just want to. Would you like to build five or 10 of those and then hang out and be the producer of those things?

[Alex Cooper]

I mean, I think I will always be talking because I literally can't shut up. But I like, I Love talking. I'm always going to be sitting in front of camera in some capacity, whether it's a podcast or it's a show on a streaming service. Like, it can go either way. It's a talk show. I'm sitting. I'm talking to people. I love what I do. When it comes to the creators that I am signing, of course, I'm always like, there is the singles, there's the doubles, and then there's the home runs and the triples. Right. And of course, I wish every single creator would be a triple. But I also think there's something beautiful about finding a creator. Where I was at when Dave Portnoy found me, I was a really ambitious kid that wanted to work hard and had a vision. And I think a lot of the people that I've started to work with, I see so much potential in them, and I'm there to just help them in any way I can, mentor them, because I've been through a lot. But I don't think it's. I want to be the face of this. It's not an ego thing. I just. I'm pretty good at what I'm doing, so I'm just leading the charge a little bit here.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Tv.

[Alex Cooper]

Tv.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You had a show during the Olympics. Do you want to do more tv?

[Alex Cooper]

I love television. Yes. I have so many meetings, I would say every other week with writers for scripted and unscripted. I'm very interested in the television space, and I think it's something that my audience. Audience, yet again, like, all I ever think about is my audience. Do they like to watch tv? Yes. Do they like podcasts? Yes. Do they like to go to concerts? Yes. Do they like live events? Yes. Do they like merchandise? Yes. And so I'm constantly going into the avenues where I think I can explore for my audience.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay. I have a final question for you, and it's actually about us, the legacy media.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Oh, I'm very curious. I'm going to ask you for advice.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There's a lot of people who say they distrust the legacy media and they actually trust you over the legacy media.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And I'm very curious if you were advising us.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What you would tell us to do.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, that's hard. I've been having a lot of conversations recently because people have come up to me asking, like, why you? And not, you know, like a news reporter. And what. What's challenging is when I was growing up with my parents, I would sit in our family room and I would watch the news with my parents. And I trusted the people and what they were saying. And unfortunately, yes, you're right, that has shifted. And I think there has been a wave of skepticism within the Gen Z. I'm just speaking for Gen Z and millennials, honestly, I think a lot of us feel like we're getting sold a crock of every week. Because when someone is knocking at you every day like, believe this, believe this, believe this, and it's the only thing you're constantly talking about. People don't want to be told what to do anymore. I think Gen Z, the minds of young creators and adults and young individuals, people want to figure it out for themselves. They don't want to be told what to do. And I think creators like me, I'm not having on a politician every week. So when I do, it's like, oh, shit, we better listen to this. Because they know I'm going to come at it from a perspective of I don't really have an agenda. So I think my advice would be finding a way when you are creating or whether you are selling or in business, finding a way to find any form of humanity that is not so perfectly lined up that it feels like I'm getting sold a fucking ad. Like, come on. Like, this is bullshit. It has to feel somewhat more organic. And I know that challenging, but maybe you should give those young interns more of a voice and maybe you should listen to them when they have some ideas.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That was an organic conversation, everybody. Alex Cooper, thank you. Alex Cooper, thank you so very much.

[Alex Cooper]

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Dealbook Summit is a production of the New York Times. This episode was produced by Evan Roberts and edited by Sarah Kessler. Mixing by Kelly Piclo. Original music by Daniel Powell. The rest of the Dealbook events team includes Julie Zahn, Hilary Kuhn, Angela Austin, Hayley Hess, Dana Prokowski, Matt Kaiser, and Yenwei Liu. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Nina Lassom, Ravi Matu, Beth Weinstein, Kate Carrington, and Melissa Tripoli. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next time.

[Elise]

Elise. We've seen how industries can change in the blink of an eye.

[Josh]

It's true, Josh. One minute you're the top video rental.

[Elise]

Store in the world, and the next, nobody even knows what a video rental store is.

[Josh]

Some enterprises can't handle change. Others are built for it.

[Elise]

On Built4Change, we talk to the business leaders who've embraced reinvention to thrive in turbulent times and come out on top.

[Josh]

So what can you learn from three inventors today?

[Elise]

Check out Built for Change, a podcast from Accenture, wherever you get your podcasts.