Podcast Summary: The Daily (The New York Times) Episode: 'He Knew': What Epstein Said About Trump in New Emails
Date: November 13, 2025
Hosts: Rachel Abrams
Guests: David Enrich, Michael Gold

Overview

This episode investigates the major revelations from the latest batch of emails released from Jeffrey Epstein’s correspondence, focusing on what they reveal about Epstein’s relationship with Donald Trump. Hosts and guests unpack the significance of these emails, detail congressional battles over the release of the broader Epstein files, and analyze the political ramifications for both parties, especially as it relates to transparency and public perception.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Significance of the Newly Released Emails

• New Evidence Emerges

  • Thousands of pages of Epstein’s emails have been made public, including direct correspondence referencing Donald Trump.
  • Released by both House Democrats (a few, selected emails) and Republicans (over 20,000 additional pages).

• "Extremely significant" news:

  • “We woke up this morning to the news that Democrats on the House Oversight Committee had released three emails from Jeffrey Epstein’s email account in which he and others were talking about Donald Trump.” (David Enrich, 01:41)

2. Detailed Breakdown of Key Emails

- April 2011 Email:

• Epstein to Ghislaine Maxwell:
  • Reference: “the dog that has not barked is Trump. [Redacted victim’s name] spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned.”
  • Suggests the existence of undisclosed information about Trump.
• Interpretation:
  • "Epstein appears to believe that he has some information on Trump that has not yet become public...trying to portray that he does." (David Enrich, 04:05-04:16)

- December 2015 Exchange (Epstein & Journalist Michael Wolff):

• Wolff suggests structuring a response for Trump regarding questions about Epstein:
  • “…if he says he hasn’t been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency. You can hang him.”
  • Indicates media involvement in strategizing potential leverage.
• Journalistic ethics concern:
  • “To say this is a violation of traditional journalistic ethics and standards would be an understatement.” (David Enrich, 05:40)

- Early 2019 Email (Epstein & Wolff):

• Discusses Mar-a-Lago, redacted victim’s name, and Trump:
  • “...trump said, he asked me to resign. Never a member ever of course he knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop.”
  • Indicates Epstein claimed Trump was aware of his recruitment activities.
• Rachel Abrams sums up:
  • “Is Epstein basically saying here, Trump is lying because I was never a member to begin with of Mar a Lago. So therefore, if he says that he kicked me out, that’s not true.” (09:05)

3. Limitations and Skepticism

• Caution over Epstein’s Reliability:

  • “...no one should ever put much stock into what Jeffrey Epstein says or writes. He is a complete liar with a really clear pattern of manipulating people for his own gain and exaggerating his connections.” (David Enrich, 12:41)

• Known History Between Trump & Epstein:

  • “[Trump and Epstein] were quite close for a period of time.” But “...the takeaway of these emails is not so much what they reveal about Epstein's relationship with Trump, as much as they reveal that Epstein...was always looking for an edge over people...” (13:49)

4. Political Process Behind File Releases

- Efforts to Force Transparency

• Legislative movements:

  • Bipartisan bill introduced by Rep. Ro Khanna (D) and Rep. Thomas Massie (R) to force DOJ to release Epstein files.
  • House Oversight Committee issues subpoenas; both Democrats and Republicans eventually participate.

• Political maneuvering:

  • “Today is the day that the House is voting to end the government shutdown...And the release of these emails, intentionally or not, has shifted the conversation on Capitol Hill so that the Epstein saga has become the focus again.” (Michael Gold, 18:58)

- Discharge Petition & Congressional Dynamics

• “...if 218 members of the House ... agree on any one particular issue, they can force the House to vote on a bill.” (Michael Gold, 18:06)
• New representative Adelita Grijalva becomes the crucial 218th signature, locking in House support and putting pressure on party leadership. (22:16-22:55)

5. Republican and Democratic Strategies

• Republican Moves:

  • Released the full tranche (20,000+ emails) to counteract accusations of selective (“cherry-picked”) disclosure by Democrats.
  • Focus shift attempts backfire when Trump/Epstein relationship dominates headlines.
  • Notable quote: “...the main takeaway is that it’s really clear that for years after Trump severed his ties with Epstein, Epstein was still really focused on Trump.” (David Enrich, 11:18)

• Democratic Calculations:

  • Seized the opportunity to highlight issues of elitism, transparency, and corruption.
  • Used the Epstein saga to create rare splits among Republicans and raise questions about the Trump administration's transparency.
  • Michael Gold on Democrats’ narrative: “They see the Epstein issue as part of that, as another case of President Trump protecting billionaires rather than providing transparency that people really want.” (27:19)

6. Broader Political and Cultural Context

• Epstein as a Symbol:

  • The case resonates with populist themes: elites, abuse of power, and lack of transparency.
  • “The story of Jeffrey Epstein is one that prompts a lot of questions about the kind of things that President Trump has put at the heart of his campaign, about whether there is a powerful group of elites whose interests are perceived as being more important than the interests of the people.” (Michael Gold, 25:53)

• Future Prospects:

  • Even with majority House support, Senate and Presidential opposition mean actual full-release of Epstein files remains unlikely.
  • “...even if this bill comes to [the] House floor and passes… it would still have to go to the Senate... and the President would probably veto this and send it back to Congress.” (Michael Gold, 23:36)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Epstein’s manipulations:

• “He is a complete liar with a really clear pattern of manipulating people for his own gain and exaggerating his connections to powerful people.”
  — David Enrich [12:41]

On the ethics of Michael Wolff’s advice:

• “To say this is a violation of traditional journalistic ethics and standards would be an understatement.”
  — David Enrich [05:40]

On political implications:

• “It was always going to be hard to change the focus away from Epstein’s relationship with the president...”
  — Michael Gold [21:00]

On party splits:

• “This is a case where [Democrats] can’t resist an opportunity to poke at the Republican Party, make them look weak and put them on the defense.”
  — Michael Gold [27:19]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:37] – David Enrich: Why today’s revelations are significant
• [02:48] – Reading of key April 2011 email
• [04:16] – Analysis: What does “the dog that hasn’t barked” mean
• [05:29] – 2015 Michael Wolff exchange and discussion of journalistic ethics
• [07:47] – Cryptic 2019 Epstein email about Trump and Mar-a-Lago
• [09:13] – Assessing Trump's knowledge and Maxwell’s statement
• [10:57] – Republicans release 20,000+ Epstein emails
• [12:41] – Reliability of Epstein’s claims
• [15:40] – Michael Gold on parallel Congress efforts to release files
• [18:06] – Introduction of the discharge petition process
• [22:16] – The role of new Representative Adelita Grijalva
• [23:36] – Why the bill may stall even with House passage
• [25:53] – Epstein’s resonance with anti-elite themes

Conclusion

This episode provides a thorough look at the newly released Epstein emails and their impact on Trump’s public image, journalistic and political ethics, and congressional battles for transparency. While concrete revelations remain elusive due to uncertainty over Epstein’s truthfulness, the emails reinforce perceptions of deep ties between powerful men and sustained efforts—across parties—to conceal or expose abusive elite networks. Congressional intrigue ensures the Epstein saga will continue to haunt the U.S. political landscape.