ICE on Campus

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily – "ICE on Campus" Release Date: March 31, 2025

Host: Rachel Abrams
Guest: Hamed Aliaziz
Duration: Approximately 28 minutes
Publication: The New York Times

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Introduction

In the episode titled "ICE on Campus," Rachel Abrams and her colleague Hamed Aliaziz delve into the escalating issue of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) targeting international students at U.S. universities. This summary encapsulates their comprehensive discussion, highlighting key cases, administrative policies, legal implications, and the broader impact on academic environments and free speech.

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Escalation of Immigration Enforcement on Campuses

[00:31] Rachel Abrams initiates the discussion by highlighting a disturbing trend: frequent ICE actions against college students nationwide. She references a viral video showing a Tufts student being detained, setting the stage for a deeper exploration of this phenomenon.

[01:49] Hamed Aliaziz explains the shift from the Trump administration's earlier focus on undocumented immigrants with criminal backgrounds to now targeting those legally residing in the U.S. Highlighting the administration's intensified scrutiny, Aliaziz remarks:

"The Trump administration is looking to target individuals that they believe are spread, that they disagree with, and they believe that are counter to the foreign policy interests of the United States."
— [01:58]

He connects this strategy back to President Trump's campaign rhetoric, emphasizing his intent to "not allow our colleges to be taken over by violent radicals" and his vow to deport international students involved in protests.

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Key Cases Highlighting the Crackdown

1. Mahmoud Khalil: A Landmark Case

[03:54] Rachel Abrams introduces Mahmoud Khalil, a former Columbia University student arrested on campus housing in early March.

[04:05] Hamed Aliaziz details Khalil's detention:

"He was arrested under this provision in the immigration law that allows the Secretary of State to deem someone deportable if their continued presence in the United States undermines U.S. foreign policy."
— [06:29]

Despite Khalil holding a green card, ICE detained him citing his protest activities as anti-Semitic, which allegedly contravened U.S. foreign policy interests.

Notable Quote:

"The government has an immense amount of power to remove immigrants from the United States. ... like protest activity on a college campus, could merit deportation."
— Hamed Aliaziz, [07:26]

2. Ranjani Srinivasan: The PhD Student from India

[08:39] Rachel Abrams shifts focus to Ranjani Srinivasan, a PhD student whose student visa was revoked following an ICE visit to her apartment.

[09:00] Hamed Aliaziz recounts Srinivasan's ordeal:

"She had been arrested amongst another group of protesters ... those charges were eventually dropped, so she didn't really make much of a deal of it at the time, and she didn't disclose it on her visa paperwork."
— [10:25]

Facing deportation without clear charges, Srinivasan opted for self-deportation to Canada to avoid ICE detention, illustrating the administration's tactic of inducing fear to encourage voluntary departure.

Notable Quote:

"Self deportation is a major goal of the Trump administration."
— Hamed Aliaziz, [11:59]

3. Yunso Chung: An American-Born Student from Korea

[14:41] Hamed Aliaziz introduces Yunso Chung, a 21-year-old who, despite being born in Korea and raised in the U.S. since age seven, became a target after participating in a campus sit-in.

[15:19] Abrams underscores Chung's deep ties to America, making her case particularly alarming.

[16:17] Aliaziz describes the relentless pursuit by ICE:

"They're using all these various levers of government power to try to locate her, and that's a lot of resources for a government that's incredibly strained for resources."
— [16:17]

Chung's situation challenges the administration's narrative, as she is not a transient visitor but has been part of the American fabric since childhood.

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Administrative Policies and Legal Grounds

[06:26] Hamed Aliaziz elaborates on the legal framework used to detain individuals like Khalil:

"The Secretary of State can deem someone deportable, remove them from the United States because they undermine foreign policy interests."
— [06:29]

This provision is unprecedented in its application to peaceful protestors, blurring the lines between free speech and national security threats.

[07:26] Abrams raises concerns about freedom of speech protections for non-citizens, to which Aliaziz responds:

"Non citizens do have the right to freedom of speech under the First Amendment, but the government has an immense amount of power to remove immigrants from the United States."
— [07:26]

The administration's actions suggest a diminution of these protections, leveraging legal ambiguities to target dissenting voices.

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Impact on Students and Academic Institutions

[20:52] Rachel Abrams observes the irony that those most compliant with administrative procedures—international students with legal statuses—are now the primary targets for deportation, contrary to those who remain undocumented.

[21:14] Aliaziz points out that universities are ill-prepared and reluctant to counteract ICE actions, especially under pressure from the Trump administration, which has been targeting university funding and practices.

"Previous to the Trump administration, there were actually guidelines in place for ICE to not enforce on campuses."
— [21:14]

This shift creates a hostile environment on campuses, where academic freedom and open discourse are being stifled.

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Historical Context and Comparisons

[23:27] Hamed Aliaziz places the current crackdown within a historical continuum of strict immigration enforcement, drawing parallels to post-9/11 policies targeting Muslim immigrants.

"The White House has said that Khalil is aligned with Hamas, a terrorist group, and we've seen them call Srinivasan a terrorist sympathizer."
— [24:44]

This comparison underscores the recurring pattern of conflating activism with terrorism to justify invasive immigration policies.

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Future Projections and Potential Outcomes

[25:26] Aliaziz speculates on the trajectory of these policies, suggesting an expansion of deportation efforts and possible denaturalization of U.S. citizens in the future.

"Anything is possible. Right. We saw in the first administration there was an effort to expand denaturalization of US Citizens."
— [25:26]

The ongoing intimidation tactics could lead to increased self-deportation and a significant chilling effect on academic and political expression.

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Conclusion

The episode "ICE on Campus" meticulously outlines the Trump administration's intensified immigration crackdown targeting international students, highlighting individual cases that exemplify broader policy shifts. The discussion illuminates the precarious balance between national security and civil liberties, raising critical questions about the future of free speech and academic freedom in the United States.

Key Takeaways:

• Targeting Legal Residents: ICE is increasingly focusing on international students with legal statuses, including green card holders, under broad and ambiguous legal provisions.
• Impact on Free Speech: Peaceful protest activities are being conflated with anti-Americanism or terrorism, challenging constitutional protections for free speech.
• University Response: Academic institutions are underprepared and resistant to counteract ICE actions, prioritizing their own standing over student protections.
• Historical Patterns: The current crackdown mirrors past stringent immigration policies, particularly those following national security crises like 9/11.
• Future Concerns: There is a looming threat of expanded deportation powers and potential denaturalization efforts, fostering a climate of fear and uncertainty among legal immigrants.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Hamed Aliaziz on Administration's Targeting Strategy:
  "The Trump administration is looking to target individuals that they believe are spread, that they disagree with, and they believe that are counter to the foreign policy interests of the United States."
  — [01:58]

• On Freedom of Speech Limitations for Non-Citizens:
  "Non citizens do have the right to freedom of speech under the First Amendment, but the government has an immense amount of power to remove immigrants from the United States."
  — [07:26]

• On Self-Deportation as an Administrative Goal:
  "Self deportation is a major goal of the Trump administration."
  — Hamed Aliaziz, [11:59]

• On ICE's Resource Allocation:
  "They're using all these various levers of government power to try to locate her, and that's a lot of resources for a government that's incredibly strained for resources."
  — [16:17]

• On Future Policy Directions:
  "We saw in the first administration there was an effort to expand denaturalization of US Citizens."
  — [25:26]

---

This comprehensive overview aims to provide a clear understanding of the critical issues discussed in the "ICE on Campus" episode, offering valuable insights for listeners and stakeholders concerned with immigration policies and their implications on academic communities.

Transcript

[Rachel Abrams]

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[Hamed Aliaziz]

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[Rachel Abrams]

New York Times, I'm Rachel Abrams. This is the Daily Today the story of three Columbia students targeted for deportation by the Trump administration and why immigration arrests are happening at universities across the country. My colleague Hamed Aliaziz on what these cases reveal about the latest immigration crackdown and this administration's views on free speech. It's Monday, March 31st. Ahmed it feels like you can't go more than a few days without hearing about another college campus or another college student that has been targeted by immigration officials. And one, one thing that seems to have been really making the rounds the last week is this video of a student at Tufts getting detained on the street by immigration agents. And it's kind of a shocking video. And her case feels like this larger pattern that we've been seeing recently with the targeting of students. And I want to talk to you about what is happening here and what your understanding is of this moment that we are in.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Yeah, definitely. We saw at the beginning of the Trump administration a real focus on cracking down and arresting undocumented immigrants in the country, particularly those with criminal histories, and at the same time making a note that if you're undocumented in this country, we're gonna come find you, we're gonna come get you, and we're gonna remove you from America. But what's happening now is targeting of people who were legally in the country. They were here with student visas, in some cases with green cards. The Trump administration is looking to target individuals that they believe are spread, that they disagree with, and they believe that are counter to the foreign policy interests of the United States. And this all actually starts with a talk by President Trump during his campaign. During that time, he was watching these protests at Columbia. And when I'm president, we will not allow our colleges to be taken over by violent radicals. He said that if there were any international students involved, their visas should be revoked and they should be removed from the United States. If you come here from another country and try to bring jihadism or anti Americanism or anti Semitism to our Campuses, we will immediately deport you. You'll be out of that school. And when he comes into office quickly, in those first few days, where there's a dizzying number of executive orders, he deputizes the Department of Justice and the Department of Homeland Security to create a task force, comb antisemitism, and targeting college campuses as places of focus. And we weren't clear how it was all going to play out. And in recent weeks, we've seen the Trump administration start to use those ideas to target students on college campuses. And I've been covering three of those cases involving students at Columbia that, taken together, I think, paint a clearer picture of what the Trump administration is up to.

[Rachel Abrams]

I have to assume that one of those cases is one of the first cases that we saw come out of all of this. The case of Mahmoud Khalil, the former Columbia student who was arrested on campus housing in early March.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Definitely. His case was a massive news story when it first happened in early March, and people were trying to figure out why he was picked up. We learned from sources that actually Secretary of State Rubio had issued a memoir designating two people as deportable because of their protest activity. And one of those people was Mahmoud Khalil, a very visible protester on Columbia's campus. You're going to be under arrest. So turn around, turn around, turn around, turn around, turn around. He was arrested on March 8th at his Columbia University apartment complex. Stop resisting. Okay, okay. He's not resisting. He's. He's giving me his phone. Okay. His wife actually videotaped the arrest. And in the video, you can see the plainclothes officers telling Mr. Khalil that he's going to be arrested, that they're going to be taking him away. You're going to have to come with us. At the same time, Mr. Khalil is telling his wife, okay, hi, Amy. Just call his lawyer. Yeah, they just, like, handcuffed him and took him. I don't know what to do. He was picked up and sent to Louisiana, where he was detained in an ICE detention facility. And that's really striking because Khalil is not here on a visa. He actually has permanent residency and a green card.

[Rachel Abrams]

Can they do that? I mean, can they detain a green card holder? I remember when we first learned about this case, a lot of people, myself included, thought the answer was no.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Green card holders can be detained. After you receive your green card, you have to wait a certain number of years to receive your U.S. citizenship. But during that time, you need to remain in good standing in the United States. And one of the things that oftentimes green card holders will be picked up by ICE for is committing certain crimes, you know, more serious in this case. Obviously, there is no crime that's been pointed to by the US Government. Instead, it's this provision cited by Secretary of State Rubio.

[Rachel Abrams]

And what is the legal ground that Rubio is citing?

[Hamed Aliaziz]

They arrested him under this provision in the immigration law that allows the Secretary of State to deem someone deportable if their continued presence in the United States undermines U.S. foreign policy. And in the case of Mr. Khalil, they say that his involvement in protests at Columbia University was part of this anti Semitic activity. And this undermines US Foreign policy interests of combating anti Semitism across the world.

[Rachel Abrams]

What they're referring to in some of these accusations seems to be a speech issue. I mean, I know they're talking about things that sound like terrorism, but they're really criticizing, it seems, his protest activity. And one thing I still don't quite understand about his story is this question of freedom of speech. Even though he's not a citizen, is he still entitled to the protections of a citizen because he's in this country?

[Hamed Aliaziz]

It's complicated. The Supreme Court has said that non citizens do have the right to freedom of speech under the First Amendment, but the government has an immense amount of power to remove immigrants from the United States. And ultimately, anything outside of being a US Citizen is a privilege that can be revoked by the federal government. And in this case, the Trump administration is trying to say that actions that would otherwise be protected in the First Amendment, like protest activity on a college campus, could merit deportation.

[Rachel Abrams]

So, basically, no, you don't ultimately have freedom of speech.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Yeah, it's clear that they're targeting people for this type of speech, including Mr. Khalil, using every resource possible to pick him up and arrest him. Recently, they added allegations in his immigration case to try to deport him, saying that he had not disclosed past work.

[Rachel Abrams]

Right. It feels like they're basically trying everything to send a message. And moreover, it kind of feels like his case is maybe potentially the beginning of something.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Definitely. It feels like the beginning of this targeting of international students across the United States. And we quickly learned that there was another case of an international student at Columbia, but this was a student who was not someone who was as prominent as Mr. Khalil.

[Rachel Abrams]

Tell me about that case.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Her name is Ranjani Srinivasan, and she's a PhD student here on a student visa from India. And my colleague, Luis Fere gets on the phone with her and starts talking to her about her story and what she experienced. You know, she had received a email in early March from the State Department saying that her visa was revoked. And she's trying to figure out what's going on with her status in the United States. It's important to note that for international students here, that's a very serious issue, and so there's a lot of stress involved with that. Around that time, ICE comes to her door. Well, does Ranjani live here? Her roommate actually is at the door and starts a recording. I do not consent to answering any questions, but have a good day. Hey, Brinjani, if this is you, listen, we were here yesterday. We're here today. We're gonna be here tonight, tomorrow. You're probably scared if you are. I get it. And they're seeking to pick her up. The reality is your visa was revoked. Okay. You are now amenable to removal proceedings. Okay. If you'd like to have an attorney.

[Rachel Abrams]

Does she know why ICE agents are at her door? Does she know why? Like, they're trying to get her?

[Hamed Aliaziz]

She doesn't. But eventually she realizes that she's likely being targeted because she was swept up during the increase in protests on Columbia's campus. She had been arrested amongst another group of protesters in the area, but she says she was arrested during a time when she was trying to get home. She was working her way back to her house, and she was picked up by police at the time. Now, those charges were eventually dropped, so she didn't really make much of a deal of it at the time, and she didn't disclose it on her visa paperwork. But ultimately, the US Government cites that as the reason for her visa being revoked.

[Rachel Abrams]

Okay, wait, so to be clear, was she protesting that day? Like, was she a protester at all?

[Hamed Aliaziz]

She says that this was really merely her trying to get home and getting through this crowd, and the police come and arrest her. She described herself as a lazy protester. She did post stuff online in support of pro Palestine efforts, but that was the extent of it. And she sees what's happened to Mr. Khalil and doesn't want to be swept up by ICE and targeted for detention in a ICE detention center. And she decides to leave the country to go to Canada. And to avoid all of that, she self deports that.

[Rachel Abrams]

Self deportation, that actually feels like it's one of the administration's goals here, right? Like getting people to flee on their own.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Definitely. Self deportation is a major goal of the Trump administration. There is no feasible way for them to deport millions of people without major numbers of immigrants self deporting, leaving the country boosting to those numbers that President Trump has said he will hit. This is something that is constantly talked about with the Trump administration which is leave before we come and find you. And in this case it seemed to have worked. She saw what happened to Mr. Khalil and did not want to end up like him being sent to Nice detention center. This case shows us that the government is claiming these broad deportation powers and attempting to use those powers to deport international students here to study in the United States. Then we heard about another case, a third case involving another university student that really surprised people who have been following immigration and immigration enforcement for years.

[Rachel Abrams]

We'll be right back.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

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[Rachel Abrams]

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[Hamed Aliaziz]

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[Rachel Abrams]

Hamed, you've just explained these two cases that help us understand how the administration is really testing all these new theories about how to get people out of the country. Tell us about that third case you just mentioned.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Definitely this third case. It's a 21 year old student, Yunso Chung, who grew up in America. Essentially she was born in Korea, but she came to the United states at age 7 and she lived her life in America. Her whole community is here, her family's here, her parents are here. She went through high school in America where she became a valedictorian. Essentially her home is the United States and that is something that her lawyers really emphasized in their lawsuit against the US Government.

[Rachel Abrams]

This isn't someone who came here specifically to go to school and then plans to head back home.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Exactly. I think it's significant for emotional reasons because she has such deep ties to this country. She went to high school in the United States. She has a network in the United States. But I think, more importantly, it undercuts the Trump administration's argument with these arrests. The Trump administration has said that these people who are coming to study in the United States are guests in our country. And while they're here, it's not appropriate for them to cause a ruckus on our campuses and cause conflict. But in this case, Chung is not, for all intents and purposes, a temporary guest who just came to the United States. She's been here since she was seven years old.

[Rachel Abrams]

Mm. So how does it become clear that she's being targeted? Can you kind of walk us through her story a little bit?

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Yeah. So earlier this month, in March, she attended a sit in on Columbia University's campus, and she was arrested by police alongside other college protesters. And soon after that, ICE shows up to her parents house. Around the same time that the ICE officer showed up to Chung's house, she received a text message from a unknown number, and it said, quote, this is Audrey from the police. My job is to reach out to you and see if you have any questions about your recent arrests and the process going forward. A federal prosecutor speaks with her attorney saying that the State Department has revoked her status and that the government is trying to find her and detain her. They're really using all the resources that the government has to try to arrest her. I think that's a really important point to make because, look, ICE arrests are really difficult. They have to expend a lot of resources and research and surveillance to know when people are going to be around to show up to arrest them and take them away. They're using all these various levers of government power to try to locate her, and that's a lot of resources for a government that's incredibly strained for resources in trying to reach these high numbers of deportations. Every resource matters, and they're using it on a college student who's been in the country since she was 7 years old.

[Rachel Abrams]

So where is she now?

[Hamed Aliaziz]

We don't know. Her lawyers have not told us where she is, but they say that she is in the United States because she's.

[Rachel Abrams]

Concerned about having her location disclosed.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

That is a fair assumption.

[Rachel Abrams]

Right. And it feels worth noting, actually, that these aggressive tactics kind of come back to this whole messaging element of the administration's tactic here, like they're trying to send a message that we will come for you, we will find you. And that also helps kind of put the fear into people that would lead them to self deport, which is another huge element to the administration's approach to all of this. And it feels like this is all much broader than just what's happening at Columbia.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Totally. We've seen ICE target international students across the country, including, including at Georgetown, of course, with the case at Tufts, with the Turkish international student, and at Cornell as well. And it's becoming pretty clear that this is part of the Trump administration's new phase of their immigration crackdown. Let me just send this message out. If you apply for a visa to enter the United States and be a student, and you, Marco Rubio, Trump's Secretary of State, has spoken very publicly about this new face. We gave you a visa to come and study and get a degree, not to become a social activist. That tears up our university campuses. And once your visa is revoked, you are in the country illegally, and the United States has the right to deport you from this country.

[Rachel Abrams]

Is there some advantage to targeting students in particular or people who are here on student visas or green cards?

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Well, people here on student visas are in regular contact with the US Government. They are constantly updating their information with the US Government to remain in status. This is something that they do willingly and proactively because they want to pursue their education in the United States. So there is a whole wealth of information about where these people are. You can just look at where they're studying. Right. I mean, they are much easier to find than compared to undocumented immigrants, who oftentimes will remain under the radar and try to avoid interacting with the government for fear of being picked up by ICE and arrested. These are individuals who have shared a lot of information with the U.S. government. And I think in many ways it confirms a lot of fears that people have that when you share so much information with the government, you inevitably become easier to find and detain.

[Rachel Abrams]

It really feels ironic, the way that you're explaining it, that the people that are most deportable are actually people that are in the system, following the rules, going through the procedures, as opposed to people who are undocumented. It also feels worth saying that these schools where ICE is targeting students, they don't really seem to be going out of their way to fight it.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

This is a new test for them. This is not something that they've seen in the past where you have ICE officers on campuses. It's important to note here that previous to the Trump administration, there were actually guidelines in place for ICE to not enforce on campuses. So this is a new front in that respect. And at the same time, universities are under immense pressure from the Trump administration targeting their funding, targeting their practices. Colombia in particular has been under attack. So when it comes to these cases, they're in many ways taking a hands.

[Rachel Abrams]

Off approach at this point. Does it feel like the Trump administration's arrest of these students will hold up an immigration court? Like basically, are these laws, which in some cases are arcane or kind of obscure? Do you think that those will be compelling enough?

[Hamed Aliaziz]

So, two things. One, the State Department has wide powers to revoke people's student visas. And that's going to be a particularly difficult case for those individuals who are here simply on student visas trying to remain in the United States. It's going to be an uphill battle in immigration court. But when it comes to provision being used against the green card holders, this idea that the Secretary of State can deem someone deportable, remove them from the United States because they undermine foreign policy interests, that's been tested before in immigration courts. And actually the Board of Immigration Appeals at the time in the 90s upheld the US government's efforts to deport a high ranking Mexican official to Mexico. But that was a very different case. This is a very different situation. So it's unclear.

[Rachel Abrams]

I mean, that's actually something that I wanted to ask you about because we've talked a lot so far about how some of these cases feel surprising or extreme. But I just want to make sure I understand. How do these cases fit into what we've seen historically?

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Yeah, there have been several times in American history where the government has been much tougher on immigration. But you don't have to look back that far. You can point to this time after 9 11, this era where DHS was born. In the wake of that terrorist attack, we saw at that time targeting of Muslim immigrants who were here on student visas, who were swept up in this increased immigration enforcement because there was a real fear around Muslim immigrants who were here on visas because of course, the 911 attackers had arrived as well on visas. And I think it also fits into this context of the government talking about these people as potential threats. Right. I mean, we see that the White House has said that Khalil is aligned with Hamas, a terrorist group, and we've seen them call Srinivasan a terrorist sympathizer. We're seeing almost the same type of language being used to describe the immigrants who are being picked up right now as we saw during that time in the post 911 era.

[Rachel Abrams]

I realize that the government might claim that the people it is targeting, in some cases at least, are supporting terrorist activity. And so it's totally fair to use the language of the 911 terrorists, but it really feels like a huge stretch to say that somebody who wrote an op ed is comparable to somebody who flies a plane into the World Trade Center. And so it can't help but feel like this is not as much about terrorism as it is about free speech. And if that is the case, and if you agree with that premise, it feels like we are escalating in one direction. And I am curious what you think that that crackdown looks like to you in the next four years.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Yeah, already people here on legal status who have green cards are certainly terrified. There's a lot of uncertainty amongst GRE about what these cases mean for themselves. We're not even 100 days in and we're already seeing green card holders picked up and these types of incredibly powerful images of students arrested on their campuses. And as far as what comes next, I think it's fair to say that anything is possible. Right. We saw in the first administration there was an effort to expand denaturalization of US Citizens. I think we can expect more of those types of efforts and others that we're not aware of at this moment.

[Rachel Abrams]

Hamed, thank you so much for your time.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Thank you for having me.

[Rachel Abrams]

We'll be right back.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

This podcast is supported by dsw. This season. Let your shoes do the talking. Designer Shoe Warehouse is packed with fresh styles that speak to your whole vibe without saying a word. From cool sneakers that look good with everything to easy sandals you'll want to wear on repeat, DSW has you covered. Find a shoe for everywho from the brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas, New Balance and more. Head to your DSW store or visit dsw.com today. Hi, this is Sydney Harper and I help make the daily one night it's 10pm My colleagues working on the next day's episode are looking for a speech, this piece of tape that they really need to make the episode sing.

[Rachel Abrams]

They've tracked it down to a university.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Library and that library happens to be close to my house. So I hop into a car, I head across town. I get to the library, they're about to close.

[Rachel Abrams]

I'm copying the tape, uploading it on my computer, sending it off to my.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Colleagues working on the episode. It makes it into the show the next day.

[Rachel Abrams]

It really helps make it shine.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

The whole effort is a success.

[Rachel Abrams]

And I'm telling you this because I.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

Don'T think people realize that that level of teamwork and dedication goes into every episode that you hear on the Daily. That sort of collaboration takes people, it takes resources, it takes support from subscribers. So that's why I'm asking you to subscribe to the New York Times so we can keep bringing you the Daily every day day.

[Rachel Abrams]

Here's what else you need to know today. President Trump said in an interview with NBC on Sunday that he was, quote, not joking about possibly seeking a third term. It was the most serious he's been about an idea that he's mused about in the past, and it would run afoul of the 22nd Amendment. But Trump said that there were, quote, methods to extend his presidency. President Trump also told NBC News that he would not fire anyone involved in a group chat that inadvertently disclosed plans for airstrikes on Yemen to a journalist. Today's episode was produced by Sydney Harper, Jessica Chung, Shannon Lynn, Carlos Prieto and Rochelle Bonga. It was edited by M.J. davis, Lynn, Paige Cowett and Brendan Klinkenberg, contains original music by Dan Powell and Pat McCusker and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for the Daily. I'm Rachel Abrams. See you tomorrow.

[Hamed Aliaziz]

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[Rachel Abrams]

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[Hamed Aliaziz]

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