The Daily – "Inside the Tech Company Powering Trump’s Most Controversial Policies"

Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Natalie Kitroev (New York Times)
Guest: Michael Steinberger (NYT contributor, author of "The Philosopher in the Valley")

Episode Overview

This episode explores the influential — and controversial — role Palantir Technologies plays in the second Trump administration, particularly under the stewardship of its once-liberal CEO, Alex Karp. Journalist Michael Steinberger, who spent years covering Palantir and its enigmatic leader, unpacks the company’s capabilities, the ethical quandaries it raises, and how Karp's evolving personal politics have shaped the company's direction and U.S. policy — especially on immigration and surveillance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Palantir, and What Does It Do?

(02:03 – 03:50)

• Palantir is a secretive, high-tech company developing powerful data integration and analytics software.
• Its tools aggregate vast datasets for organizations (especially intelligence, law enforcement, and military), revealing patterns that would otherwise escape human analysts.
• A striking example: Palantir's software powered the Pentagon’s AI targeting program that helped Ukraine withstand the Russian invasion by analyzing satellite imagery and intercepted communications to locate enemy troop formations.

“Palantir’s software pulls in all the data, merges it, and then finds patterns, trends, connections in that data, stuff that might elude the human eye.”
— Michael Steinberger (03:15)

2. Why Is Palantir So Controversial?

(03:50 – 05:31)

• Palantir’s clients include the CIA (an early investor), Mossad, and ICE.
• Concerns center on Palantir enabling “futuristic surveillance capabilities” and being pivotal to crackdowns on immigration, mass surveillance, Gaza, Iran, and AI militarization.
• Their tools empower agencies like ICE to systematically identify, track, and deport undocumented immigrants, with critics expressing fears of a growing government surveillance state.

“ICE appears to be building a massive surveillance apparatus, and Palantir appears to be at the center of that.”
— Michael Steinberger (04:53)

3. Who Is Alex Karp?

(05:31 – 12:38)

• Karp: Biracial, Jewish, dyslexic, progressive activist in youth; raised in a left-wing household in Philly.
• Educated at Haverford College and Stanford Law, then earned a PhD in philosophy in Germany (dissertation on fascist rhetoric).
• Befriended Peter Thiel at Stanford; their ideological debates fueled Palantir’s foundation.
• Despite zero business or tech background, Karp became Palantir’s CEO, motivated by the belief that connecting the dots (as failed before 9/11) would protect civil liberties.

“I had no skills... I wasn’t trained in business. I didn’t know anything about startup culture.”
— Alex Karp (12:06)

“There’s no aspect of my life that was not motivated by absolute terror... It propels a lot of decisions at this company...”
— Alex Karp (14:03)

4. Ideological Motivations at Palantir

(12:50 – 15:54)

• Palantir sees itself as “defending Western values”: civil liberties, free speech, and security.
• Karp’s rationale: Preventing terrorist attacks protects liberal democracy by reducing the public’s turn to far-right policies out of fear.

“If people on the left don’t take concerns about public safety seriously, voters are going to turn to people on the right who do, and people on the left are not going to like the results.”
— Michael Steinberger (19:00)

5. Palantir’s Partnership with ICE

(15:54 – 18:18)

• Relationship started under Obama, grew during Trump’s first term.
• Palantir tech used for manhunts and investigations, later expanded to mass deportations.
• Became a flashpoint: Protests, campus boycotts, internal dissent from Palantir staff objecting to their role in Trump’s immigration crackdown.

6. Karp’s Response to Criticism and Internal Dissent

(19:00 – 20:11)

• Karp, identifying as a progressive, insists border enforcement is a legitimate progressive stance.
• Warns that ignoring border concerns will only drive voters rightward.
• Increasingly stung by criticism from left/progressive quarters, especially after the first Trump term and during Biden’s presidency.

“He is doing more to defend the values that liberals claim to cherish than they are.”
— Michael Steinberger (20:22)

7. Impact of the October 7, 2023, Terror Attacks in Israel

(22:55 – 27:46)

• Karp’s fear and Jewish identity deepen after the attacks, leading to even more unambiguous support for Israel.
• Palantir rapidly deploys engineers to Israel; company takes out a public ad supporting Israel.
• Internal dissent over this stance isn’t tolerated; Karp states, “If you can't abide by what we’re doing, then maybe Palantir isn’t the place for you.” (25:03)

"There is no such thing anymore of being on all sides... I am proud that we are supporting Israel in every way we can."
— Alex Karp (23:48)

• Karp is scathing in his criticism of campus protests and the left's response, equating some anti-Israel activism to antisemitism.
• Increasingly disillusioned with Democrats, especially with the party’s handling of Israel and protests.

“You are breathing the vapors of a dangerous new fake and self-destructive religion when you are sitting at your elite school pretending… you actually understand the world.”
— Alex Karp (25:40)

8. Karp’s Political Shift and Business Opportunities in Trump’s Second Term

(28:03 – 30:51)

• After October 7, Karp warms to the Republican Party, makes major donations, publicly voices support for Trump policies.
• Palantir wins massive federal contracts (including a $10B Army deal and another ICE contract).
• Publicly praises Trump’s border, national security, and international policies.

“I think Trump does very, very well... honestly, I think he’s quite brilliant at this point.”
— Alex Karp (30:08 / 30:19)

• Karp insists his core values haven’t changed — it's the progressive movement and Democratic Party that have.

“The idea that what’s being called progressive is in any way progressive is a complete farce.”
— Alex Karp (31:00)

9. Is Karp’s Support for Trump Ideological or Opportunistic?

(31:41 – 32:58)

• Steinberger: It’s both. Although business imperatives matter, Karp seems to genuinely find new ideological justifications for siding with Trump.
• Karp dismisses critics’ concerns about the use of Palantir for harmful immigration enforcement, accusing critics of “Trump derangement syndrome” (33:13).

10. Karp’s Newer Concerns: Diversity, Immigration, and Security for Jews

(33:35 – 36:26)

• Karp’s stance post-October 7: Uncontrolled borders breed anti-diversity, anti-Jewish backlash.
• He worries that ignoring the border could pave the way for more radical, truly autocratic leaders—worse than Trump.

11. Does Karp See Trump as a Threat to Democracy?

(34:48 – 36:26)

• Karp vehemently rejects the idea that Trump is a fascist or autocrat, citing his own scholarly work on fascism in Germany.

“I think [calling Trump a fascist] is stupid, honestly. It’s idiotic.”
— Alex Karp (35:06)

12. The Question of Limits and Civil Liberties

(36:26 – 39:08)

• Steinberger expresses concern: Karp has not stated any “red lines” regarding what he would refuse to do for the government.
• The episode concludes with the big, unsettling question: Should the public trust Karp’s judgment in ensuring Palantir does not enable government abuses?

“Do you trust Alex Karp’s judgment about the moment we’re in?... If abuse has happened, do you trust Alex Karp to pull the plug on... Palantir’s work with government agencies?”
— Michael Steinberger (37:36 / 38:20)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Karp on his sense of vulnerability and drive:
  “There’s no aspect of my life that was not motivated by absolute terror... It propels a lot of decisions at this company.” (14:03)

• Karp on losing employees over positions:
  “If you have a position that does not cost you ever to lose an employee, it’s not a position.” (25:03)

• On the protests after October 7th:
  “You are breathing the vapors of a dangerous new fake and self-destructive religion... pretending… you actually understand the world.” (25:40)

• Karp on supporting Trump:
  “I’m very supportive of the president’s border and national security... that’s really the only two things that I actually focus on.” (30:24)

• Steinberger on public trust:
  “Do you trust him ultimately to be willing to sacrifice Palantir’s business interest in defense of those values?” (38:40)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Palantir's technology in Ukraine, what Palantir does: (02:03 – 03:50)
• Concerns about Palantir's surveillance role: (04:01 – 05:31)
• Alex Karp's upbringing and worldview: (07:01 – 12:38)
• Internal and public dissent over ICE contract: (18:18 – 20:11)
• Karp’s reaction after October 7, 2023 (“survival situation”): (23:07 – 25:03)
• Palantir’s open shift to Trump, Republican donations: (28:03 – 31:00)
• The ultimate question of ethical limits and trust: (36:26 – 39:08)

Conclusion

This episode provides a deep dive into how Palantir's actions — and its CEO's ideological journey — are intimately tied to some of the most fraught debates around technology, immigration, surveillance, and the future of American democracy. The conversation leaves listeners wrestling with the unsettling question: How much should we trust tech leaders like Alex Karp, especially when their companies now underpin some of the government’s most aggressive, divisive policies?