As Ukraine’s counteroffensive grinds on, it’s increasingly turning to a secret drone program that is hitting targets deep inside Russian territory. At least three different Ukrainian-made drones have been used in attacks inside Russia, including on Moscow, according to an analysis by The New York Times. Christiaan Triebert, a journalist on The Times’s Visual Investigations team, explains the origins of that program. We also speak to Serhiy Prytula, a former Ukrainian television host who is now a key force behind it. Guest: Christiaan Triebert, a journalist on The New York Times’s Visual Investigations team.