Is Elon Musk Buying Today’s Election in Wisconsin?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily – "Is Elon Musk Buying Today’s Election in Wisconsin?"

Episode Details:

• Title: Is Elon Musk Buying Today’s Election in Wisconsin?
• Host: Michael Barbaro
• Author: The New York Times
• Release Date: April 1, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Daily, host Michael Barbaro and journalist Reid Epstein delve into the high-stakes Wisconsin Supreme Court race, spotlighting the unprecedented involvement of billionaire Elon Musk. This election has transcended traditional political contests, evolving into a battleground where personal wealth and political influence intersect in unprecedented ways.

The Significance of Special Elections

[00:00 – 05:10]

Michael Barbaro opens the discussion by contextualizing the importance of special elections in gauging the political climate post-presidential elections. He explains that these off-season races serve as indicators of public sentiment towards the current administration and the prevailing political directions.

Reid Epstein highlights recent special elections in Iowa and Pennsylvania, where Democratic candidates triumphed in traditionally Republican strongholds:

• "The Democrat prevailed by four points in an election that hadn't gotten a lot of attention or investment from the parties." [02:50]

These outcomes suggested a grassroots surge of Democratic enthusiasm and dissatisfaction with the Trump administration's policies.

The Wisconsin Supreme Court Race

[05:10 – 12:32]

The conversation shifts to the focal point of the episode: the Wisconsin Supreme Court race. Epstein underscores the court's pivotal role in state politics, notably its influence on election recounts and critical issues like abortion rights and congressional districting.

Michael Barbaro underscores the court’s disproportionate impact:

• "It punches above its weight as far as State supreme courts go in the United States." [06:22]

Candidates Overview

[06:40 – 08:05]

Two candidates vie for the Supreme Court seat:

1. Susan Crawford (Liberal Candidate):

   • Background: Dane County judge with a history of defending liberal causes, including Planned Parenthood.
   • Campaign Focus: Advocating for women's healthcare rights and opposing lenient sentencing practices.
   • Notable Quote:
     • "I was standing up in court fighting for the rights of women and their doctors to make those critical decisions about health care." [07:06]

2. Brad Schimmel (Conservative Candidate):

   • Background: Former Republican Attorney General of Wisconsin with strong ties to Donald Trump.
   • Campaign Focus: Promoting conservative judicial values and defending the Constitution.
   • Notable Quote:
     • "Donald Trump will appoint judges who will defend our Constitution and respect our Constitution." [07:57]

Elon Musk's Involvement

[08:05 – 18:21]

A significant twist in the race is Elon Musk's substantial financial involvement:

• Financial Infusion: Musk has poured over $20 million into Brad Schimmel's campaign, accounting for over 25% of the total race funding.
• Strategic Objectives: His involvement appears twofold:
  1. Supporting Trump Allies: By backing Schimmel, Musk aims to bolster candidates loyal to Trump, potentially shaping future Republican strategies.
  2. Influencing Judicial Outcomes: Amid Tesla's lawsuit against Wisconsin over dealership laws, Musk likely seeks favorable judicial decisions from the court governed by Schimmel.

Reid Epstein explains:

• "He has a non-trivial personal financial stake in the outcome. Tesla... is suing the state of Wisconsin..." [11:48]

Musk's tactics extend beyond direct campaign funding. He has orchestrated a comprehensive canvassing operation, offering voters $100 for signing petitions opposing activist judges—allegedly a backdoor method to influence voter behavior legally.

Campaign Strategies and Public Perception

[18:21 – 25:04]

Musk's aggressive financial strategies have far-reaching implications:

• Voter Incentives: By compensating voters for petition signatures, Musk attempts to sway public opinion and increase Schimmel's supporter base.
• Public Backlash: Democrats in Wisconsin have militarized their campaign efforts to counteract Musk's influence, branding the race as "The People versus Elon Musk." They argue that Musk's oligarchic interference undermines democratic processes.

Notable Democratic Response:

• "Susan Crawford... is telling people that when she was a little girl... she never imagined that I'd be running against the richest man in the world." [20:33]

Meanwhile, Republicans maintain optimism, banking on capturing 60% of Trump's voter base to secure Schimmel's victory despite Musk's extensive spending.

Implications for American Politics

[25:04 – 27:00]

The episode extrapolates the Wisconsin race's potential impact on future elections:

• Blueprint for Future Politics: Musk's involvement may set a precedent for billionaire influence in politics, particularly within the Republican Party.
• Democratic Strategy Shift: Democrats might solidify their narrative against oligarchic control, embracing populist rhetoric to galvanize voters against wealthy influencers like Musk.

Reid Epstein posits:

• "The Democrats in Washington... have adopted a message that hits that point, that billionaires are controlling the country for themselves at the expense of people who rely on government programs like Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security." [23:58]

Conclusion

The Wisconsin Supreme Court race epitomizes a critical juncture in American politics, where personal wealth can dramatically sway electoral outcomes and influence judicial directions. Elon Musk's unprecedented financial involvement not only affects the immediate election but also poses profound questions about the future dynamics between money, power, and democratic integrity in the United States.

Michael Barbaro encapsulates the episode's essence:

• "Whether you're starting or scaling your company's security program, demonstrating top-notch security practices..." [30:04]

While the segment appears to segue into sponsorships, the underlying message emphasizes the significant shifts in political campaigning and the emergent challenges they present to traditional democratic frameworks.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Elon Musk is trying to buy Shimmel a seat on the Supreme Court." – Reid Epstein [10:07]
• "It's not clear if it's legal. The Attorney General of Wisconsin... suggested that it's not." – Reid Epstein [16:56]
• "This is insane." – Michael Barbaro [19:00]
• "Musk may be making that choice for them where they decide they have no tolerance for billionaires." – Reid Epstein [26:37]

Key Takeaways:

1. High Stakes of Special Elections: These races offer a glimpse into national political trends and voter sentiments.
2. Elon Musk's Pivotal Role: Musk's financial prowess is reshaping political campaigning, potentially setting new norms for billionaire involvement.
3. Democratic Response: Facing unprecedented challenges, Democrats are refining their strategies to counteract oligarchic influences.
4. Future Implications: The Wisconsin race may serve as a harbinger for future electoral strategies and the evolving landscape of American politics.

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This detailed summary encapsulates the critical discussions and analyses presented in The Daily episode, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the intricate dynamics at play in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race and its broader ramifications.

Transcript

[Michael Balbaro]

This podcast is supported by Betterment. To be invested with Betterment is to believe in better, whether it's saving for today or building wealth for tomorrow. We help people and small businesses put their money to work. We automate to make saving simpler. We optimize to make investing smarter. We build innovative technology backed by financial experts. For anyone who's ever said, I think I can do better, so be invested in better with Betterment. Get [e-mail] Investing involves risk performance, not guarantee. Guaranteed. From the New York Times, I'm Michael Balbaro. This is the daily on paper. Today's election in Wisconsin is about whether Democrats or Republicans should control the state's highest court. In reality, it's become a referendum on Elon Musk, his agenda in Washington and and his willingness to flood American politics with his money. Today, my colleague Reed Epstein on the local election that everyone is watching. It's Tuesday, April 1st. You ready, Reid?

[Reid Epstein]

I'm ready. My phone is on. Do not disturb.

[Michael Balbaro]

Get that last sip of Spindratin.

[Reid Epstein]

I have a backup here, too. We have more water.

[Michael Balbaro]

So perfect. Reid, as we know, after every presidential election, the political cognoscenti.

[Reid Epstein]

Is that how you say that word?

[Michael Balbaro]

I think that's how you say it.

[Reid Epstein]

I think that's an only in journalism word.

[Michael Balbaro]

Okay. The political class, the political world turns its attention to the first batch of special elections. These off season races that happen when somebody retires or gets chosen to be in the president's cabinet and they leave a vacant seat. And we study these as, you know, for signs of how the voting public feels about the new president, direction of the country and both parties. And it's a temperature taking exercise. And we've had a few of them even though this presidency is just a couple months old.

[Reid Epstein]

Yeah. This really began about a week after Trump was inaugurated in a state Senate election in eastern Iowa in a rural Republican part of the state where the Republican who had held the seat before had won by 22 points. The last time the seat was up.

[Michael Balbaro]

Safe Republican seat.

[Reid Epstein]

A safe Republican seat. And the Democrat prevailed by four points in an election that hadn't gotten a lot of attention or investment from the parties.

[Michael Balbaro]

Wow.

[Reid Epstein]

But it was a sign that there was some grassroots, organic enthusiasm for Democratic candidates in this new Trump era. And fast forward to a week ago. There was another special election in Pennsylvania for another state Senate seat. This one got a little bit more attention, but not really any money. And it was a district that Donald Trump had won by 15 points last fall. And again, the Democratic candidate won in.

[Michael Balbaro]

A district where Trump won by 15 points.

[Reid Epstein]

By 15 points. Yeah. And the people in the party took it as evidence that there was some real anger bubbling up about what Trump was doing in the White House that was reaching all the way down to some of these local races.

[Michael Balbaro]

Right. Because what you're describing are not swing seats, which could go either way, but what sound like pretty reliable Republican red seats. So Democrats flipping them, even in the context of a special election, which, as you said, is somewhat unusual by definition, seems meaningful.

[Reid Epstein]

Right. And that brings us to Florida, where we have a pair of special congressional elections today to fill seats held by former congressmen who were Trump loyalists in districts where Republicans win by 25 or 30 or 35 points, typically. So these are not districts that even in. In a Democratic wave that the party would expect to be terribly competitive. But their candidates have outraised the Republican favorites in these races.

[Michael Balbaro]

Wow.

[Reid Epstein]

And put a bit of a spook into House Republicans. We saw last week Elise Stefanik, the nominee to be the ambassador to the United nations, have her nomination be pulled back, in part because Republicans couldn't afford to have another seat vacant in case one of these special elections goes haywire.

[Michael Balbaro]

So even more evidence of what a galvanizing moment this is for Democrats. So much so that the president has asked a member of Congress who's supposed to be in his Cabinet to stay in Congress for fear that one or both of these Republican held House seats in Florida might. Might fall to Democrats.

[Reid Epstein]

Right. There is a lot of concern on the Republican side about these House seats. I should say the concern on the Republican side is not shared by optimism on the Democratic side. They do not think that they're going to win these seats, but they are enjoying watching Republicans fret about them. And then there's the race that I've been focused on, which isn't one of these Florida elections, but the contest for the deciding seat on the Wisconsin Supreme Court.

[Michael Balbaro]

So tell us more about that race and why it is that you have become so focused on it.

[Reid Epstein]

Well, you may remember the court in Wisconsin has an outsized role in the state's politics. It was the place where Donald Trump, just by one vote on the court in 2020, failed to reopen the state's election count in his effort to overturn the results of the election.

[Michael Balbaro]

Right.

[Reid Epstein]

It's a court that in upcoming months will determine the fate of abortion rights in the state. It's also likely to have a case seeking to redraw congressional district lines in Wisconsin.

[Michael Balbaro]

Right. It punches above its weight as far as State supreme courts go in the United States.

[Reid Epstein]

It does. These are basically super legislators on the court who will have a lot of authority for making policy that impacts Wisconsin and eventually the rest of the country.

[Michael Balbaro]

So tell us about the candidates for this race today for that judgeship.

[Reid Epstein]

So you have to remember this is formally a nonpartisan election, but nobody's really fooled about which side the candidates belong.

[Michael Balbaro]

To, what our records are. I worked as a statewide prosecutor at the Wisconsin Department of Justice, taking cases.

[Reid Epstein]

The liberal candidate is a local judge in Dane county, which includes Madison, named Susan Crawford.

[Michael Balbaro]

I was standing up in court fighting for the rights of women and their doctors to make those critical decisions about health care, you know, when I went through.

[Reid Epstein]

And she was a private practice lawyer who represented liberal causes like Planned Parenthood and the local teachers unions before she became a judge. She is about as milquetoast and bland as a political candidate gets in 2025.

[Michael Balbaro]

I'm going to ask you for your vote. And thank you so much for your attention, Judge shimel. I've spent 35 years representing the people of Wisconsin during a.

[Reid Epstein]

The conservative candidate is a local judge in Waukesha county named Brad Schimmel.

[Michael Balbaro]

I know that Donald Trump has said some things that are bad, and I don't like hearing anyone talk that way about women.

[Reid Epstein]

He was the Republican Attorney General of the state a couple cycles ago.

[Michael Balbaro]

But Donald Trump will appoint judges who will defend our Constitution and respect our Constitution. Thank you.

[Reid Epstein]

He has spent much of his career in politics and the judiciary demonstrating his loyalty to Trump and Republicans, and he's hoping that that pays off by energizing Trump's base to come out and vote for him today.

[Michael Balbaro]

Right. Not particularly nonpartisan, this race, it seems.

[Reid Epstein]

It is the most partisan, nonpartisan race that we've had in quite a while. And Democrats really expected that this race would act like a lot of these races beforehand, where there's a reaction to the party in power and that their voters would be more energized to come out and make a statement against the Trump administration than Republican voters would be in sort of confirming what was happening in Washington.

[Michael Balbaro]

Right. Which is exactly what just happened in Iowa and Pennsylvania.

[Reid Epstein]

Right. In a similar pattern to these other special elections. But then Elon Musk got involved, and we saw something in Wisconsin that we've never seen in any race anywhere else in the country, where a single donor, who also happens to be the chief policy director of the White House, with his own checkbook, basically built an entire campaign for one of the president's allies, and he so far has spent more than $20 million.

[Michael Balbaro]

Wow.

[Reid Epstein]

And he's also, you know, the largest single donor to the Wisconsin Republican Party, which can then give money directly to Schimmel's campaign. He has given more than 25% of all of the money spent on this race from both sides combined. And that's made this election in Wisconsin the first real test of whether Elon Musk and the millions of dollars he can direct toward an election can snuff out Democratic anger that for a lot of the country is directed at him.

[Michael Balbaro]

Right.

[Reid Epstein]

Or whether the Democratic enthusiasm to push back against what's happening in Washington can overcome Elon Musk, Donald Trump, and all of the money that Musk is directed toward them.

[Michael Balbaro]

We'll be right back. This podcast is supported by Instagram, introducing Instagram teen accounts, a new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on. All right, buckle up. Good job. New Instagram teen accounts, automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see. The Ford foundation supports the institutions, individuals and ideas at the forefront of social justice. Join us for ideasford for conversations with leaders from all walks of life. Billie Jean King, Matt Damon, Jess Thom, Roy Wood Jr. Sparkle as they share unique perspectives on innovative solutions we need today. Tune in to ideasford for ideas that can enlighten, inspire, and transform the world. Visit fordfoundation.org the daily to learn more. So, Reid, why did Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, choose this race of all races to pour his money into right now?

[Reid Epstein]

Well, Michael, there's a lot of theories. First, it's the biggest, most important race on the calendar until November. So if he's going to get involved in something, it would be this. He has a non trivial personal financial stake in the outcome. Tesla, the car company that he is the chief executive of, is suing the state of Wisconsin over a state law that forbids Tesla from opening its own car dealerships in the state without going through a franchisee. A lot of states have laws like this. Tesla has sued or maneuvered around them in many states where it operates. But Wisconsin had said no. And in January, Tesla filed a lawsuit. And about a week later, Musk started tweeting about the Supreme Court race.

[Michael Balbaro]

Hmm. Is the thinking that this lawsuit would eventually go to the Wisconsin Supreme Court?

[Reid Epstein]

It would presuming that if Musk lost at the lower courts, he would appeal and eventually those appeals would get to the Supreme Court, where a justice that he bankrolled would be in position to cast a deciding vote.

[Michael Balbaro]

Hmm.

[Reid Epstein]

That is probably not his biggest motivation. Musk has lost hundreds of millions of dollars in his Tesla investments since Trump took over as president. He would be in position to sell more cars than he does now in Wisconsin, but prob probably not enough to make up a $20 million investment in the Supreme Court race. What's more likely is that Musk is doing this to place himself as the central banker of the MAGA movement, that he is the cash behind candidates that are loyal to Donald Trump. And by doing this, if he wins, he sets a template for all of the future Republican candidates running later this year and in the midterms next year. If you're loyal to Trump and Musk, that you can expect him to come in and finance a television and ground game operation for your campaign.

[Michael Balbaro]

And so far, what has Musk's money gone toward exactly in Wisconsin for this race?

[Reid Epstein]

Well, he has spent an unheard of amount of money in the state, even just on a canvassing operation for Brad Schimmel. He has hired people to go door to door to pretty much hit every Trump voter in the state to remind them that if they want to see Trump's agenda enacted in Wisconsin, that they need to vote for Brad Schimmel. And he is paying these people $25 an hour, which is really an unheard of amount in politics. It's more than three times the minimum wage in Wisconsin.

[Michael Balbaro]

Right.

[Reid Epstein]

It is a sum that frankly, nobody else is able to match. On the other side, he is also sending an unending stream of mail to Trump voters reminding them to vote for Brad Schimmel to help President Trump. And he, with a separate organization, is bankrolling television ads that hammer Susan Crawford as soft on crime.

[Michael Balbaro]

Susan Crawford's record disturbing and dangerous.

[Reid Epstein]

And saying that during her time as.

[Michael Balbaro]

A judge, a 7 year old girl sexually assaulted. The attacker faced 100 years. Crawford let him off with only four. I don't regret that sentence.

[Reid Epstein]

That she was too lenient in sentencing violent criminals while his victim lived with the scars forever.

[Michael Balbaro]

She even let the predator live across.

[Reid Epstein]

The street from an elementary school. And again, he's also given money directly to the Republican Party of Wisconsin, which can then turn around and give it, all of it, to Brad Schimmel's campaign. And all of this is just a precursor to Musk giving money directly to Wisconsin voters, to voters, to voters. He has engineered a plan where anybody who signs a petition saying that they oppose activist judges, which is the language that Republicans use to refer to judges who do anything that they don't like, gets $100 for signing the petition.

[Michael Balbaro]

Wait, wait. I just. I just want to slow you down here. He's giving voters who sign a petition not about this race, but about the generic idea that some judges go too far. He's paying them $100. Why?

[Reid Epstein]

And he is paying other people money to refer people to sign this petition. I talked to the Republican mayor of a small town who said his own brother called him and asked him to sign the petition because his brother would get $45 for it.

[Michael Balbaro]

Huh.

[Reid Epstein]

It is a perhaps extra legal plan to get voters engaged in the race because it's against the law to pay people to vote, but it's not against the law to pay people to sign a petition in favor of a particular policy. And so that is what Musk is doing.

[Michael Balbaro]

And kind of a back door. I mean, I'm gonna use this word carefully. A backdoor bribe to a voter. I mean, how else to think about that? Is it legal?

[Reid Epstein]

It's not clear if it's legal. The Attorney General of Wisconsin, who's a Democrat, suggested that it's not. And he asked the state's courts to intervene to stop Elon Musk from handing out these million dollar checks. And in a bit of irony that's kind of perfect for this election, the judge the case was assigned to was Susan Crawford in Dane County.

[Michael Balbaro]

Wow.

[Reid Epstein]

Who probably set a land speed record in recusing herself from this whole episode. Eventually, over the weekend, the state supreme court declined to intervene. They allowed the event to go forward without making a ruling on whether it was legal or not. This whole scheme is the sort of thing that Musk can do because he has virtually unlimited money.

[Michael Balbaro]

Right.

[Reid Epstein]

And to top it off, among those who have signed this petition for which they receive $100, Musk has chosen winners who he has said will receive a million dollars. Wow. A real sort of publicity st to draw attention to his efforts to juice support for his candidate in this race.

[Michael Balbaro]

Hmm. I mean, that is truly astonishing.

[Reid Epstein]

Yeah. Musk had done a test run of this proposition during the presidential campaign in Pennsylvania. But we really haven't seen anything quite to the same scale as what we're witnessing in Wisconsin.

[Michael Balbaro]

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Elon Musk.

[Reid Epstein]

On Sunday night, Elon Musk went to Green Bay, where he held a rally for Brad Schimmel. He walked out wearing one of those big, yellow, oversized cheese heads. What do you think of my hat like you see people wearing at Green Bay Packer Games and other Wisconsin sporting events? We're obviously, obviously seeing, like, Some crazy, crazy stuff in D.C. where, you know, it seems like the. It's like any, any federal judge can stop any action by the President, you know, of the United States.

[Michael Balbaro]

This is insane.

[Reid Epstein]

Like, we, this, this has got to stop. It's got to stop at the federal level and at the state level. But let me first hand out two one million dollar checks in appreciation. Musk went on to hand out oversized novelty checks to two winners for a million dollars each. Okay, so the first check goes to Nicholas Jacobs. One of those just happened to be the chairman of the Wisconsin College Republicans.

[Michael Balbaro]

Huh?

[Reid Epstein]

That brings a total to $3 million checks that he's given out just in the last week to Wisconsinites who share his support for Brad Schimmel.

[Michael Balbaro]

So, Reid, how are the Democrats in Wisconsin responding to, to this onslaught? Because from what you have said here, it very much seems like this could potentially tip the race in the direction of Schimmel, despite whatever organic Democratic anger is out there. It just seems like a whole lot to counter.

[Reid Epstein]

Well, they have pretty much turned their entire campaign into one against Elon Musk. Now Elon Musk is trying to buy Shimmel a seat on the Supreme Court. They branded a statewide tour the people versus Elon Musk.

[Michael Balbaro]

He has now spent over $10 million on my opponent's race. He has basically taken over Brad Schimmel's campaign.

[Reid Epstein]

Susan Crawford, the candidate, is going around the state telling people that when she was a little girl in Chippewa Falls, she never imagined.

[Michael Balbaro]

I never could have dreamed that I'd be running against the richest man in the world.

[Reid Epstein]

Being up against the richest man in the world. Their TV ads are trained on Brad Schimmel and his genuflecting toward Musk and Trump. There's one ad that's in heavy circulation.

[Michael Balbaro]

Brad Schimmel is corrupt and will do anything to get on the Supreme Court. I have to invest in knee pads. I have to crawl around begging people, please, please, please. And who did he beg? Where?

[Reid Epstein]

They call him Knee Pad Brad because of a quote that he gave where he said he was on his knees begging donors for money.

[Michael Balbaro]

So how much does it cost to buy off a corrupt politician? Just ask Knee Pad Brad.

[Reid Epstein]

They are working on a theory that is borne out somewhat by polling, that Democratic voters hate Elon Musk so much that running against him is even more effective than running against Donald Trump. Which is saying something given how much Democratic voters hate Trump these days. And there is. I mean, there is a real slice of voters in Wisconsin who voted for Trump who are not a Fan of Musk. There's some evidence in the polling that bears that out that there are voters who didn't like the way the country was going last fall and weren't. Didn't like Joe Biden, and so they voted for Trump. But there's some evidence that they aren't thrilled with Elon Musk tearing the government apart or pouring $20 million into the state. And so the Democratic game plan is to find those people and get them to vote for Judge Crawford. While Republicans have been pretty transparent about their plan, Schimmel has said this, the state Republican Party chairman has said this, that their goal is to get 60% of Trump's voters from November to come out and vote for him in this election. And if they do that, they think they'll win, that that'll be enough of. Enough of the voters to win. They think that no matter how angry Democrats are at Elon Musk, 60% of Trump's voters will be enough to carry the day.

[Michael Balbaro]

MM Reid, it seems like no matter which candidate wins this race today in Wisconsin, this is going to be a template for the next chapter of American politics. Right. It's hard to imagine a world where Elon Musk doesn't apply these kinds of tactics to the midterm elections across the country in House and Senate races to try to preserve Republican majorities and defend Trump and Trumpism. And it's hard to imagine Democrats not trying to make these races about Musk and the oligarchy and the idea that a very small number of people, really, Elon Musk, have just outsized power over everything. The government, who is fired in that government, what agencies live or die and how elections are conducted.

[Reid Epstein]

I mean, we've seen some of that already. We've seen Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez out on tour drawing crowds of tens of thousands of people a couple weeks ago. No, we will not accept an oligarchic.

[Michael Balbaro]

Form of society where a handful of billionaires run the government.

[Reid Epstein]

I saw them in Las Vegas with a pretty sizable crowd that was energized and really buying into the argument about billionaires controlling the country. I think the Democrats in Washington who have gotten the most traction in opposition to Trump, have adopted a message that hits that point, that billionaires are controlling the country for themselves at the expense of people who rely on government programs like Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security. And that is really going to be the Democratic playbook for the foreseeable future, especially as Musk and other billionaires seek to influence these other races elsewhere in the country. And if Musk is able to snuff that out in Wisconsin and then elsewhere in the midterms, there's going to be a lot of hard questions for Democrats to answer about how they can be a majority party in the country.

[Michael Balbaro]

Reid, you could make the argument that all of this may end up being very clarifying for Democrats, despite all the branding problems the party has, which is if they end up running over and over again against a billionaire who's bankrolling the other side, that the Democrats will have the makings of their own populist campaign message, that the 99% of Americans who aren't billionaires need a voice against the 1% or so who are and that there could be real long term.

[Reid Epstein]

Potency there, well, they may have no choice but to start sounding like Bernie Sanders and making the case that they are the party in opposition to the billionaire oligarchs running the country. You know, the question is how do they finance a, a party like that that itself has been very dependent on wealthy donors that have, many of which have tried to steer the party back toward the center. It's hard for them to have it both ways, to both be the party of the masses of working people in the country and be the party that has to be financed by its own billionaires. And there may be a point in the near future where Democrats have to make a choice about which of those lanes that they want to travel on.

[Michael Balbaro]

And Musk may be decisive in that decision making.

[Reid Epstein]

Musk may be making that choice for them where they decide they have no tolerance for billionaires, even those that are friendly to them.

[Michael Balbaro]

Well, Reid, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

[Reid Epstein]

Thank you, Michael.

[Michael Balbaro]

We'll be right back. Over 70 million workers in the United States are stars. That's workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. Stars have gained valuable skills through alternative routes like military service, on the job experience, and more, but are held back by the paper ceiling because they don't have a bachelor's degree. It's time for a skills first hiring approach. Help tear the paper ceiling and create opportunity for millions of skilled workers. Learn more at tearthepaperceiling.org, brought to you by OpportunityAtWork and the Ad Council. Number one New York Times best selling author John Sanford's latest thriller, Lethal Prey, is finally here. Detectives Lucas Davenport and Virgil Flowers join forces to track down a ruthless killer who will do whatever it takes to keep the past buried. Look for Lethal Prey available from Putnam wherever books are sold. Here's what else you need to know today. The stock market keeps rejecting President Trump's tariffs. On Monday, two of America's most closely watched stock indexes, the S&P 500 and NASDAQ, ended the first quarter of the year with their worst declines in nearly three years. Economists say much of the blame lies with Trump's haphazard rollout of tariffs against many major trading partners and the threat of even more tariffs in the days to come. And Marine Le Pen, the current frontrunner to become France's next leader, was found guilty of embezzlement on Monday and barred from running for office for the next five years. The verdict effectively blocks Le Pen, an anti immigrant nationalist politician, from seeking the presidency in 2027, when French President Emmanuel Macron leaves office because of term limits. At the moment, polls show Le Pen leads her nearest rival by about 10 points. Le Pen has vowed to appeal the ruling. Today's episode was produced by Mooj Zaidy, Michael Simon Johnson and Mary Wilson. It was edited by Michael Benoit and Liz O'Ballin, contains original music by Diane Wong, Dan Powell and Rowan Demisto and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Runberg and Ben landfurb of 1D. That's it for the Daily I'm Michael Balboro. See you tomorrow.

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