The Daily: J.F.K., the C.I.A. and the Original ‘Deep State’
Release Date: March 27, 2025
Host: Michael Barbaro
Published by: The New York Times
Introduction
In this episode of The Daily, host Michael Barbaro delves into the enduring conspiracy theories surrounding the assassination of President John F. Kennedy (JFK) and the role of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). With new documents released under President Trump's administration, the podcast explores how transparency efforts may paradoxically fuel further conspiratorial thinking rather than dispel it.
Background and Historical Context
Michael Barbaro sets the stage by highlighting the longstanding efforts of the U.S. government to release documents related to JFK's assassination, aiming to quell conspiracy theories. However, the recent release of thousands of pages of previously classified documents under President Trump has introduced a new dynamic to this narrative.
Key Quote:
"For the past three decades, when the US Government has released documents related to the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Jr. An overriding goal has been to dispel conspiracy theories."
— Michael Barbaro [00:28]
Interview with Julian Barnes and the CIA Expert
Julian Barnes, the intelligence reporter for The New York Times, engages in an in-depth conversation with an unnamed CIA expert. They discuss the historical tension between JFK and the CIA, particularly following the failed Bay of Pigs invasion, which has been a fertile ground for conspiracy theories suggesting CIA involvement in Kennedy's assassination.
Key Points:
- Public Perception: The assassination has been a cornerstone for conspiracy theories, with many questioning the official narrative that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.
- CIA's Historical Misconduct: Programs like Project Mockingbird and MK Ultra exemplify CIA overreach, fostering mistrust and feeding conspiracy narratives.
Notable Quotes:
"The CIA did not kill JFK. We have not learned that there is a second gunman. There is no significance to the grassy knoll. Oswald acted alone."
— Unnamed CIA Expert [04:03]
"He’s trying to reinforce the idea that there is a threat from something he would call the deep state."
— Unnamed CIA Expert [04:03]
Release of New Documents Under President Trump
The discussion shifts to the recent release of 77,000 pages of JFK-related documents with minimal redactions, a move spearheaded by President Trump and supported by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. This release marks a significant departure from previous document disclosures, which often included numerous redactions to protect sensitive information.
Key Points:
- Motivations Behind the Release: President Trump’s administration appears motivated by a desire to challenge and undermine intelligence agencies, framing them as part of a "deep state" adversary.
- Impact on Conspiracy Theories: Instead of dispelling myths, the unredacted documents have inadvertently provided more material for conspiracy theorists to latch onto, particularly those aligned with Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s views.
Notable Quotes:
"He frames this as a way to restore public trust in government. But part of it is also his new alliance with Robert F. Kennedy Jr."
— Unnamed CIA Expert [11:00]
"A lot of people are waiting for this for a long, for years, for decades."
— Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [12:24]
Analysis of the Unredacted Documents
Julian Barnes and the CIA expert examine the contents of the newly released documents, revealing previously hidden aspects of the CIA's operations:
-
CIA's Influence in Foreign Policy: A document titled "CIA Reorganization" by Arthur Schlesinger reveals extensive CIA involvement in U.S. embassies, particularly in France, indicating that half of the embassy staff were CIA officers masquerading as diplomats.
Quote:
"Half of the embassy in France was CIA officers, not diplomats."
— Unnamed CIA Expert [15:16] -
Overreach Within the U.S.: Additional documents expose CIA activities within the United States, including unauthorized surveillance and break-ins at the French consulate, underscoring the agency's overreach beyond its charter.
Quote:
"The CIA is taking over U.S. foreign policy. It's out of the control of the President and the Secretary of State because the CIA's role has grown too big."
— Unnamed CIA Expert [16:20]
The Deep State and Contemporary Implications
The podcast explores how these historical revelations intersect with President Trump's rhetoric about the "deep state." Despite significant reforms and increased congressional oversight since the 1960s, the leaked documents are being used to support modern-day conspiracy theories.
Key Points:
- Perception vs. Reality: While the CIA's historic overreach is well-documented, the agency's operations today are markedly different, with stronger oversight mechanisms in place.
- Persistence of Conspiracy Thinking: The release of these documents has not only failed to diminish conspiracy theories but has also provided new fodder for proponents like Trump and Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who argue that a clandestine government apparatus continues to undermine democratic processes.
Notable Quotes:
"He's definitely believes there's a conspiracy to get him today. He definitely believes the deep state is out to undermine his presidency."
— Unnamed CIA Expert [22:11]
"The old history has very little to do with how the CIA operates today. There have been years of reform. There's far more congressional oversight today than there was in the 1960s."
— Unnamed CIA Expert [23:17]
Conclusion: The Paradox of Transparency
The episode concludes on a somber note, reflecting on the unintended consequences of increased transparency. While the release of documents aimed to clarify historical events, it has instead reinforced and expanded conspiracy theories, suggesting that transparency alone may not suffice in combating misinformation.
Key Points:
- Sticky Nature of Conspiratorial Thinking: Despite access to more information, belief in conspiracy theories remains resilient, illustrating the challenges in changing public perception.
- Future of Transparency Efforts: The episode questions the efficacy of releasing sensitive information in an era where conspiracy theories are deeply entrenched in political discourse.
Notable Quotes:
"Through more transparency and more objective looks at the information, more analysis that brings in the full context, that pushes back against conspiratorial thinking."
— Unnamed CIA Expert [24:38]
"It's a reminder about how powerful the idea of conspiracy is, how much of a hold that has on the American mindset."
— Unnamed CIA Expert [25:44]
Additional Segment: Defense Secretary Controversy
Following the main discussion, the podcast briefly touches on a political controversy involving Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, whose leaked texts revealed details about a planned military attack. President Trump defended Hegseth, framing the backlash as part of a coordinated attack against his administration.
Key Points:
- Political Ramifications: Congressional Democrats called for Hegseth's resignation, while President Trump dismissed the calls as a witch hunt and retaliated with new tariffs.
Notable Quotes:
"A growing number of congressional Democrats called on Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to resign or be fired..."
— Michael Barbaro [27:30]
"Look, look. It's all a witch hunt."
— Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [28:02]
Final Thoughts
This episode of The Daily provides a comprehensive examination of how historical events and newly released documents intertwine with contemporary political narratives, particularly the concept of the "deep state." It underscores the complexities of transparency in the digital age, where information intended to clarify history may instead perpetuate enduring myths and conspiracies.
Produced by: Olivia Natt, Mary Wilson, Sydney Harper
Edited by: Liz O'Ballin
Original Music by: Elisheba ET, Dan Powell, Rowan Namisto
Engineered by: Chris Wood
Theme Music by: Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly
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