‘Modern Love’: Bridget Everett Says A Best Friend Can Be Your Greatest Love

Summary

Podcast Summary: ‘Modern Love’: Bridget Everett Says A Best Friend Can Be Your Greatest Love

The Daily – August 24, 2025
Host: Anna Martin (Modern Love, The New York Times)
Guest: Bridget Everett (Star of HBO’s "Somebody Somewhere")
Main Theme:
Redefining love by spotlighting the profound intimacy and transformative power of deep friendship—sometimes as central, life-changing, and meaningful as romance.

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Episode Overview

This episode explores why television—and our society at large—so often centers romantic love, and how deep friendship can be just as powerful. Bridget Everett, star and co-writer of HBO’s "Somebody Somewhere," discusses the show’s celebration of platonic love, shares stories from her own life, sings a key song from the series, and reads a touching Modern Love essay about friendship as life's greatest romance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Show’s Unique Focus on Friendship

(Timestamp: 01:01–03:59)

• Anna Martin introduces Bridget Everett as someone tired of TV prioritizing romantic relationships.

• Bridget describes "Somebody Somewhere" as a "slice of life" show, highlighting not just tender moments but also relatable, sometimes crude humor:

  • Bridget Everett: "I think of it as, you know, people say dramedy, but kind of just a slice of life. Some tender moments. Some, you know, and maybe a fart." (04:24)
  • Anna Martin: "Some tender moments. And then like a big diarrhea scene in season two." (04:39)

• St. Louis Sushi story:

  • Bridget confirms it’s a real dish (ham, cream cheese, pickle) that inspired an infamous comic scene.
    (05:03–05:08)

2. The Character of Sam: Art Reflects Life

(05:08–08:47)

• Both Bridget and her character Sam grew up in Manhattan, Kansas, and love singing but battle self-doubt.
  • Bridget: "I feel the same way. I feel like I connect. I kind of plug into life when I'm singing... I also struggle with self-worth. Like she does." (05:46)
• Bridget has learned real-life lessons from her fictional self, including working to open up to new people (contradicting Sam’s “NNP—No New People” policy).
  • Bridget: "Absolutely. There's something that Sam says in season two. She's like, NNP, no new people... But Sam, especially in season three, is allowing more people into her life and into her heart. And I think that I have honestly been trying to work on that myself." (06:45–07:27)

3. Acronyms and Life Mottos

(08:47–09:21)

• Bridget shares her fondness for life acronyms such as NNP ("No New People"), GAOO ("Growth Against All Odds"), RFB ("Ready for Bed"), and DDHD ("Dreams Don’t Have Deadlines").
  • Bridget: "DDHD is my theme. You know, I got that from LL Cool J. Dreams don't have deadlines." (09:10–09:16)

4. The Heart of the Show: Sam and Joel’s Friendship

(09:21–11:42)

• Bridget describes the chemistry between Sam and Joel as central to the show:
  • "Sometimes you don't expect that you're gonna meet such a central relationship to your life in your 40s, and I think that's incredible. Goes against the NNP." (10:24)
• The show positions friendship as primary, sometimes ahead of romantic love:
  • "Her friends are her people, and it's not like she's looking for a romantic love. She's looking for her person." (11:01)
  • Anna names this perspective "kind of radical." (11:09)

5. A Standout Musical Moment

(12:27–14:56)

• Anna references a deeply emotional scene in season 3 where Sam helps Joel’s boyfriend, Bradley, write a love song for Joel. Sam jumps in to sing for Bradley when emotions are too overwhelming.
  • Anna: "She jumps in and she starts singing for him." (13:27)
  • Bridget sings the love song live; the lyrics are simple, moving, and reveal that the love expressed is as much Sam’s for Joel as it is Bradley’s for Joel:
    • "I wake in the morning and I see your face / I'm the luckiest guy in the entire human race / ... But I know it's Love. Oh, love. Love." (13:54)

6. Reading and Discussing the Modern Love Essay

(17:06–26:44, 26:48–29:54)

• Bridget reads Victor Lodato’s Modern Love essay, "When Your Greatest Romance Is a Friendship."
  • The essay chronicles an unexpected, transformative friendship between Victor (in his 40s) and Austin (an octogenarian woman), exploring how their bond surpasses age, expectations, and even outlasts romantic connections.
• Bridget and Anna reflect on the resonance:
  • Bridget: "They just slip into kind of a life together... I think what's so great about this relationship is they just sort of slip into kind of a life together, and I want that." (26:53–27:34)
  • Bridget: "The amount of loss I've experienced over the last few years, it's... we don't always have time... so have the gin and tonic while you can." (29:35–29:54)

7. Navigating Change in Friendships

(31:25–36:27)

• Anna asks about real-life parallels, and Bridget discusses losing primacy in a friend’s life when that friend finds romantic attachment.

  • Bridget: "I did have what I thought was this person... but I miss that... then he's in a relationship now, and it changes... And that's okay." (31:51–32:31)

• The pain of “not being the only one anymore” and how it’s important for friends to remind each other that they matter, despite shifting circumstances.

  • Bridget: "I've always kind of been like, she'll be there. And after a while, it affects you." (32:49)
  • Anna: "It's accepting that you might not always be as primary to someone as they are to you." (34:11)
  • Bridget: "Yeah. And the truth is, a lot of my friendships are like, if I ask them to do something, they're like, let me check with, you know, so and so first... it hurts. So seeing something like this is like... it's a dream, and it gives me a lot of hope." (34:15–34:43)

8. Letting Yourself Be Loved

(35:41–37:10)

• Anna and Bridget discuss the challenge—not just of sharing love and intimacy with friends, but accepting and believing it.
  • Bridget: "It's also up to me to hear it, you know?... I have to let it in. It's not easy." (36:12–36:27)

9. Is Friendship a Romance?

(39:20–40:07)

• Anna asks if “romance” is an appropriate word for friendship; Bridget says yes:
  • Bridget: "You can get swept off your feet by a friend, and you don't have... just because, you know, there may not be the sex involved, you are in love with them in some degree." (39:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Growth against all odds."
  – Bridget Everett (08:25), an internal theme of the show and her personal life, now embodied on a necklace.
• “No new people.” (NNP)
  – Bridget’s and her character’s mantra about boundaries and social anxiety, later challenged by openness.
• "You can get swept off your feet by a friend."
  – Bridget Everett (39:42), affirming that friendship can be a romance.
• "It's accepting that you might not always be as primary to someone as they are to you."
  – Anna Martin (34:11), on friendship’s shifting roles.
• "The greatest romances of my life have been friendships."
  – Victor Lodato essay, read by Bridget Everett (25:59).
• "Let yourself hear it."
  – Bridget Everett (36:12), on the challenge of letting love in from friends.

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:01–03:59 – Episode introduction, theme of friendship vs. romance
• 04:24–05:08 – Bridget on the show’s tone and “real life” moments
• 05:46–07:27 – Bridget and Anna on self-doubt, "No New People"
• 08:47–09:21 – Bridget’s many personal acronyms
• 10:24–11:01 – The primacy of friendship
• 13:54–14:56 – Bridget sings the love song from "Somebody Somewhere"
• 17:06–26:44 – Bridget reads the Victor Lodato essay
• 26:53–29:54 – Reflecting on the essay: openness, loss, and seizing love
• 31:25–36:27 – Navigating lost primacy, boundaries, and affirmation in friendship
• 39:20–40:07 – Defining romance in the context of friendship

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Final Reflections

The episode moves beyond nostalgia or sentimentality, instead sincerely examining why friendships deserve to be recognized as “romances” in their own right. Bridget Everett’s stories—both as Sam and as herself—model how vulnerability, care, and devotion in friendship can transform lives. The read essay underlines that some of life’s deepest loves are platonic, affirming for anyone who’s felt sidelined by a culture that hierarchizes romantic over platonic intimacy.

Essential Message:
Friendships can be every bit as central, intimate, and transformative as romance—and we should celebrate, cultivate, and prioritize them accordingly.

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Listen for: honest discussion of emotional growth, memorable musical moments, vulnerability about loneliness, and a moving reading that reframes what “great love” can be.

Transcript

[Bridget Everett]

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[Natalie]

Hey, it's Natalie. All this summer, as you know, we've been bringing you episodes of Modern Love. And this is the last week you'll hear Modern Love in the daily feed, but you can still find new episodes of the show every week by subscribing to Modern Love at the links in our description, something I highly recommend you do. But for now, we have Modern Love host Anna Martin here in the studio. Hey, Anna.

[Anna Martin]

Hey, Natalie.

[Natalie]

So tell me what's on the show this week.

[Anna Martin]

So this week we're bringing back a conversation I really love. It's with Bridget Everett, the star of the TV show Somebody Somewhere. Have you seen that show?

[Natalie]

I have seen that show. My wife actually made me watch that show and we collectively decided that it is, I think, the sweetest show of all time.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. I mean, it's so sweet. This is a show that really focuses on friendship. And when I talked to Bridget Everett, she said that she was tired of TV shows and movies mostly focusing on romantic relationships because she thinks that friendships can be just as powerful.

[Natalie]

So true.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. And I. That point of view certainly resonated clearly with you, with myself, with viewers. And she's actually nominated for an Emmy this year for her writing on the show alongside her co writers. And she really dove deep into the role close friendship plays in her own life. I will also say she did a little singing for us which was very special.

[Natalie]

That is amazing.

[Bridget Everett]

Mm.

[Natalie]

All right, Anna Martin, thank you for bringing us Modern Love all summer.

[Anna Martin]

Of course.

[Natalie]

And everyone here is this week's Modern Love.

[Anna Martin]

Love now and did you fall in love last fella?

[Bridget Everett]

Love love is stronger than anything you.

[Anna Martin]

Love for the love love can I.

[Bridget Everett]

Love you more than ever anything there's love love.

[Anna Martin]

From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. In the HBO series Somebody Somewhere, Bridget Everett plays a 40something woman named has always loved to sing. But over time, she's lost her self confidence and given up on music. After Sam becomes best friends with a sweet, supportive man named Joel, played by Jeff Hiller, she starts to build herself back. He even Gets her to sing again.

[Bridget Everett]

One of my favorite singers in the entire world is here with us tonight. Sampire, come on up here. No. In this proud land, we grew up strong. We were wanted all along.

[Anna Martin]

The two of them become so close, they even call each other from the toilet after eating a questionable hors d' oeuvre called St. Louis Sushi.

[Bridget Everett]

If you ever tell anybody what just happened to my asshole, I will come over. Oh, no, Joel. This is a new level of intimacy.

[Anna Martin]

To watch Somebody Somewhere is to fall in love with these two friends and to hope that nothing gets in the way of what they share together. So I wanted to talk to Bridget about how central a best friendship can be if we're willing to make the space for it in our lives. And Bridget reads an essay about two friends with a bond so close, maybe we need a new word to define it. Bridget Everett, welcome to Modern Love.

[Bridget Everett]

Hi.

[Anna Martin]

I'm so happy you're in the studio with us. So the show you star on, Somebody Somewhere, is currently on its third and final season. I love this show, but I'm really struggling with something. I hope you'll help me out. I find it tough to categorize the show in terms of genre. I'm like. I want to call it a romantic comedy, but it's also sort of like an ensemble slice of life at times. It's a musical. How would you describe the show?

[Bridget Everett]

Well, I have a terrible time describing it, too, so maybe that's why we have such an intimate audience. I don't know. I think of it as, you know, people say dramedy, but kind of just a slice of life. Some tender moments. Some, you know, and maybe a fart.

[Anna Martin]

I was gonna say some tender moments. And then like a big diarrhea scene in season two.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. Because that's real life.

[Anna Martin]

Of course it's real life.

[Bridget Everett]

Maybe not for you, but for people I know.

[Anna Martin]

St. Louis sushi. Is that a real thing?

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, my friend Larry Crone, it's one of his signature dishes. At parties, you know, he always passes around his little canape or whatever, but it's basically ham wrapped around cream cheese wrapped around a pickle. Got it. And, you know, it's always a hit.

[Anna Martin]

No, it sounds so, so good is the thing.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. But, you know, on the show, we had to kind of, you know, make it fun.

[Anna Martin]

You had to make it fun. And by that you mean you had to fill it with a lot of farts. Okay. Your character on Somebody Somewhere is a woman named Sam who is somewhat inspired by your own life. Like you, Sam grew up in Manhattan, Kansas, where the show takes place. Sam loves singing, but she has a lot of fear and self doubt around it. Whereas you, Bridget, have a cabaret song where you proudly describe all the shapes and sizes boobs come in. I love that song. You just seem fearless on stage. Have you ever had any of Sam's self doubt in your own life?

[Bridget Everett]

Sure. I mean, a lot of what I have in common with Sam is obviously the love of singing. And, you know, Sam really comes alive when she sings. And I feel the same way. I feel like I connect. I kind of plug into life when I'm singing. There's a way that I can connect to my emotions when I'm doing that that I can't sometimes do otherwise. And I also struggle with self worth. Like she does. So over the course of these three seasons, as she is acknowledged kind of to herself, what she's working through. I mean, she doesn't say, oh, I'm Sam and I have self doubt. You know, we sort of see her trying to push through some of that. And I've learned a lot from her. Like, sometimes we write the scenes and I'm like, man, I wish I could be like Sam.

[Anna Martin]

Have you ever applied? I mean, I know it's like loosely autobiographical, but of course this show is a work of fiction. But you're saying that you've learned things from Sam. Have you ever found yourself, quite literally applying a lesson that she's learned in the show to your own life? Do you ever do something in your own life and think, wow, I learned this from Sam, my character in somebody somewhere?

[Bridget Everett]

Absolutely. There's something that Sam says in season two. She's like, nnp, no new people.

[Anna Martin]

Yes.

[Bridget Everett]

And that's kind of like me. I have a lot of friends, my life is full enough, and I'm socially anxious, like many people are. So I just like, I'd just rather not. But Sam, especially in season three, is allowing more people into her life and into her heart. And I think that I have honestly been trying to work on that myself.

[Anna Martin]

Interesting. Okay, so what you're saying is in season two, Sam kind of adopts this, yeah, life ethos, I don't know, mantra. No new people meeting no new friends. But then in season three, we see her sort of open back up again. And you're saying that you're trying to do the same thing in your life right now.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, because I think for me and for Sam, it's like, you know, if you're somebody that does struggle with self worth every time you meet somebody, you're like, they're gonna see the cracks.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, totally.

[Bridget Everett]

Or that they'll just see what I don't like about myself, you know? And I think Sam feels that way. So she's like, I've got this person that makes me feel good. This person makes me feel safe. And that was why it was so devastating in season one, why her sister died. Because her sister loved her, warts and all, you know? And Joel, he loves her warts and all. And, you know, I think it's just something that not everybody walks into a room and thinks people are gonna like him.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bridget Everett]

Maybe most people don't. I really don't know.

[Anna Martin]

I don't think most people do. I certainly don't. But you're so right. In season three, this current season of somebody somewhere, we see that sort of protective shield start to crack in the best way.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And she's terrified, but she does it anyway. Which is the theme of the season is growth against all odds. And I think that that is.

[Anna Martin]

I love that. Is that something you said in, like, the writer's room? Growth against all odds?

[Bridget Everett]

It is. And I do have the necklace now, and I'm not wearing it right now. Wait, stop.

[Anna Martin]

You should have worn it. Wait, is it a necklace that says.

[Natalie]

Growth against all odds?

[Bridget Everett]

It's a lot to put on. No, it's gaao. I have on one necklace. I also have a golden toilet, which is obviously from season two. And then from season one, I have a one. Cause I'm number one on the call sheet. And I was like, this may never happen again. So I'm buying myself a necklace.

[Anna Martin]

I am so sad that you didn't wear all three.

[Bridget Everett]

I know I normally do, but I just. I don't know. I don't know why I didn't do it today. I was. You know, I got my day started kind of early.

[Anna Martin]

You got a lot of things going. Want to say. I love it. There's a lot of acronyms. I'm realizing. No new people. Nnp.

[Bridget Everett]

There's agg. There's all Glory to God, which is something that kind of goes by pretty quick. But I talk that way. That's kind of my.

[Anna Martin]

You're an acronym gal.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. DDHD is my theme. You know, I got that from LL Cool J. Dreams don't have deadlines.

[Anna Martin]

This is such a fun thing to figure out about you.

[Bridget Everett]

Murray Hill and I text each other every day. Rfb Ready for bed.

[Anna Martin]

Murray Hill also stars on the show as Fred. I love Ready for bed. RFB you've talked a bit about the relationship between Sam and her best friend Joel, played by Jeff Hiller. For people who have not had the pleasure of seeing somebody somewhere, how would you explain who Sam and Joel are to each other? It's a friendship, but there's. There's so much more there.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, I. I think, you know, Sam has lost her sister and. And, you know, was everything to her. And then Joel kind of sneaks in, and he's so undeniable. He's so charismatic and charming, and he's got a smile.

[Anna Martin]

Just lights. Lights everyone up.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And he's got a great giggle and. And he's kind. And she's kind of like a little, like, you know, got a little more of an edge. But most importantly, there's a really wonderful, warm chemistry between the two of them. And even when she kind of gets reactive or reactionary, he still loves her. He's not going to dump her, which she thinks that he's going to do. So. And she's so, you know, she's such a raw nerve. And. I don't know, just the way that Joel takes care of her is very moving to me. And what I love about the relationship is, you know, sometimes you don't expect that you're gonna meet such a central relationship to your life in your 40s, and I think that's incredible. Goes against the NNP. No new people, but I just love it. And I also love that it's a real primary thing for Sam. Her friends are her people, and it's not like she's looking for a romantic love. She's looking for her person. And that's kind of what she's. Is finding Angel.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. Her person. I mean, I think it's a really. I don't know if I. I'll say, like, kind of radical. Reframe the idea that your person can be a friend.

[Bridget Everett]

Absolutely. And it doesn't mean that you can't have, you know, romantic relationships and you can't, you know, have a couple rolls in the hay and a little, you know, a little smoochy smooch in the alley after a couple drinks at a bar. But. But I think that for me, it was really important that this show be about the friendship and not about, like, girl meets boy boy in the way that you meet a guy and all of a sudden he thinks you're beautiful. You fall in love in that way. This is a different kind of love. Which is why I love the essay that we're talking about later. But.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, yeah. And we're going to go to the essay reading in just a bit, but before we do, I want to talk about a moment on the show that I think is the epitome of this kind of love between friends that you're talking about. Early in this new season, Sam helps Joel's boyfriend, whose name is Brad, write a love song as a. As a secret surprise for Joel. And first of all, that's already a nice enough gesture from Sam, but it means even more because we've seen her really struggle with the fact that Joel is now in a couple and isn't around for her as much. Can you tell us what happens when they're all at the party and Bradley gets up to sing this love song for Joel?

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. The character of Brad, played by the wonderful and underutilized Tim Bagley. That's Joel's boyfriend. Yeah, that plays. Joel's boyfriend gets up to sing this song, and he loves Joel, but he hasn't really been able to or had the need to say that publicly. And he's doing it in front of Joel's friends and his church friends. And as soon as he starts to try to speak, he's so overwhelmed. And it reminds me of. It's a very Midwestern thing, and probably other places, too. But when my brother did the toast at his daughter's wedding, he was like, okay, I just wanna. And he, like. It's just like, you know, that thing, like. And he couldn't talk, and it was just like. You know, when you get that huge.

[Anna Martin]

The emotion is caught in the throat.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, that's exactly the thing when it's too much.

[Anna Martin]

And.

[Bridget Everett]

And what I love about it is, like, that Sam is right there with him. And she's like, I'm gonna help you get through this. Because she knows what it's gonna mean to Joel.

[Anna Martin]

And she jumps in and she starts singing for him.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. She knows how special Joel is. And so anytime she can communicate that, share that, especially through music, she's gonna do it.

[Anna Martin]

Bridget, would you mind. If you want. It would be amazing to hear, like, a line, but I don't know if you're prepared to sing today.

[Bridget Everett]

Um. Do you like the beginning of the song?

[Anna Martin]

I would love to.

[Bridget Everett]

Okay, sure. I wake in the morning and I see your face I'm the luckiest guy in the entire human race A cup of coffee or a trip to the store I'll take forever and then I'll take some more but, oh, the way you look at me I can't explain it But I know it's Love. Oh, love. Love. That's the first one. Oh, my gosh.

[Anna Martin]

Don't do this to me right now. I don't know what it is, so. God. And you wrote these lyrics?

[Bridget Everett]

Mm.

[Anna Martin]

It is so simple. And it's perfect. Of course. This is a love song, ostensibly for, you know, one man to another man, you know, between two men who love each other, but also, I don't know. Like, I really think it's also Sam's love for Joel that she's looking at him. Absolutely.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, absolutely. I 100% agree.

[Anna Martin]

Thank you so much for singing that. I really feel grateful to be in the room when you do that. I'm serious. Okay. That's a tough act to follow. You are also here to do us another favor, which is to read a Modern Love essay. Do you wanna say anything about this essay before you get into it? Why you chose it?

[Bridget Everett]

Well, I chose it because you know the title when your greatest romance is a friendship. Because it's something that I can relate to. And I read it. I thought it was such a sweet and moving examination of two people not romantically linked. I don't know. I just thought it was really special.

[Anna Martin]

We'll be back in just a minute with Bridget Everett reading today's Modern Love essay. Stay with us.

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[Anna Martin]

Okay, Bridget, you are about to read a modern love essay for us by the novelist Victor Lodato. Whenever you're ready.

[Bridget Everett]

When your greatest romance is a friendship. Is this your grandson? People sometimes ask Austin when she's out with me? No, honey, he's my friend. At this point, folks usually smile tightly and turn away, perhaps worried there is more than friendship going on between the old lady and the younger man seated at the bar, giggling like teenagers. Why we're giggling, I couldn't tell you. Often our mirth seems fueled by some deep celled delight at being together. When I met Austin, I was in my early 40s and not looking for a friend, I'd come alone to this small Oregon town to finish a book. So when a bony blue eyed stranger knocked at my door, introducing herself as the lady from across the way and wondering if I might like to come over and see her garden, maybe have a gin and tonic, I politely declined. Watching her walk away, though, in her velvet slip ons and wrinkled blouse, I felt a strange pang, a slow pin of sadness that I suppose could be best described as loneliness. Suddenly I was dashing into the dirt road to say that I was sorry that she had caught me in the middle of work, but that yes, I would enjoy seeing her garden. Not the gin and Sonic, she said. Oh, sure, that too, I answered, blushing. And before I could suggest a visit the next week, she said, so I'll see you in a few hours then. Shall we say 4:30? I had to admire her sense of time. Next week is for someone who can afford to put things off. Austin, in her 80s, surely felt no such luxury. I liked your face, she admitted later, telling me she had spotted me at the mailbox. As she poured the gin, I I told her that I had seen her at the mailbox as well, and I liked her face too. I wish I had better eyebrows, she said. They used to be fabulous. Her garden was astounding, like something dreamed rather than planted, a Mad Hatter Gothic in which a lawless grace prevailed. At dusk the deer arrived, nibbling the crab apple blossoms. We had been talking for hours, slightly tipsy and and then we were in the kitchen cooking dinner. A retired psychologist, Austin had traveled extensively, spoke terrible Spanish and worse, French, and was a painter. Now she had two husbands, the second of whom died in this house in a small bed in the living room. That's what I'll do, austin told me. This room gets the best light. We turned to the windows, but the light was already gone. That we could be quiet together so soon and without strain felt auspicious. So you've run away from home, she said at one point. There was something about our interaction that reminded me of friendships from my childhood, in which no question was off limits on religion. She claimed to be an atheist. I admitted to being haunted by the ghosts of a Roman Catholic upbringing. She said her sisters believed in hell and worried about her soul. Austin, though, seemed afraid of nothing, least of all death. I said I was still afraid of the dark. Living alone, she said, it can make you funny. I laughed but changed the subject, telling her I would like to see her paintings later, crossing the road back to my Craigslist sublet, I wondered what I was doing. I reminded myself of my plan. Hiding out, Staying in the dream of the book. I wasn't here to socialize. I could finish a draft in a few months and head back home. Besides, if I wanted a friend during my retreat, I would find someone my age to throw back beers with gin and tonics with an old lady in her garden. That was not the plan. But there I was the next weekend having dinner with her. And then it was every weekend. Austin's older friends seemed confused. Is he helping you with a computer? One asked. When I first started talking about Austin to my out of town friends, they assumed I'd found a new boyfriend. Austin's a woman, I would say. Besides, she's in her 80s. She's just a pal. Even as they replied, that's cool, I could almost hear them thinking, must be slim pickings out in Oregon. What was perplexing, I suppose, was not that two people of such different ages had become friends, but that we had essentially become best friends. Others regarded our devotion as either strange or quaint, like one of those unlikely animal friendships. A monkey and a pigeon perhaps. Admittedly, when I would spot us in a mirror, I saw how peculiar we were. This vivacious white haired imp in her bright colors and chunky style jewelry, sitting with a dark haired man in his drab earth tone sweaters and Clark Kent glasses. Maybe I looked like some nerdy gigolo or this woman's attentive secretary. If we made no sense from the outside, it didn't matter. We were mostly looking at each other. One night Austin chatted about her life as a middle aged wife in academia. I completely missed out on the wildness of the 60s, she said. I told her I'd missed out too. You weren't born yet, she said. Or hardly. Often we cooked together as we had that first night, after which she would show me whatever painting she was working on. At her request, I also started reading to her from my book in progress. We gave each other feedback. Our work improved. When my six month lease was up, I renewed it. The novel wasn't finished, plus I couldn't imagine a Better neighbor. Before I knew it, three years had passed. I was riding seven days a week and spending most evenings with Austin. Sometimes she had spells of vertigo now, and when we walked together, she held my arm. Often she couldn't find the right word for something. When she wanted to keep away visitors so she could paint, she hung a sign on her studio door. Do not destroy. Soon the headaches came and more jumbled language. I need to screw my calls, she said, meaning she needed to screen them. We laughed, then sobered. Tests were scheduled. Now she is eight months into what the doctors say is a quick, ravaging illness deep in her brain. They say there is no stopping it. A year more if she's lucky. Even as I refuse to believe this, I prepare for it. How? By keeping my promise to her. A few months before her diagnosis, Austin had attended a wedding. She showed me a copy of the vows, which had been distributed at the ceremony. A detailed list. I read it carefully, at Austin's bidding. We were sitting in a car, waiting for our favorite Thai restaurant to open. I never had anything like that with the men in my life, she said, pointing to the vows. We loved each other, but we didn't have that. She was crying now, something she rarely did. I took her hand and said, well, you have it with me. Everything but the sex. At which point the monkey kissed the pigeon. That night I had an odd realization. Some of the greatest romances of my life have been friendships. And these friendships have been in many ways more mysterious than erotic love. More subtle, less selfish, more attuned to kindness. Of course, Austin was going to die long before I did. That's not what this is about. This, I have come to understand, is a love story. Austin continued to paint for several months, more fractured, psychedelic self portraits in scorching colors, her best work lately, though she is tired and hardly leaves a couch. I sit with her at the opposite end, our legs intertwined. Read to me, she says when I tell her the book is finished. She tells me to read her something new, but whenever I do, she promptly falls asleep. I don't leave, though. I stare out the window. Austin was right. This room does get the best light recently. Her hair is thinned, but she has a shock of white up front that a friend's daughter has died. With a streak of fuchsia. She looks like some punk girl I might have dated in high school. She had a bit more energy the last time I came to visit and said, oh, Victor, I had the most wonderful dessert today. Peaches in Connecticut. Have you ever had it No, I said, smiling. I love the idea of it. Two things that don't seem to go together. Monkeys and pigeons. Peaches in Connecticut. Unlikely, yes, but delicious beyond measure.

[Anna Martin]

Mm.

[Bridget Everett]

Such a beautiful, beautiful essay.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. Tell me your thoughts. How did that feel to. To read?

[Bridget Everett]

Well, I. You know, I think that for me, as I mentioned before, you know, when you read about great loves, it always seems to be about a romantic relationship. And I just. I just love that these are two people that have found each other, and. And they just. And they're the one for each other. I don't know. I think what's so great about this relationship is they just sort of slip into kind of a life together, and. I don't know. I just. I want that.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Bridget Everett]

I'm surrounded by people in romantic relationships, and it's not what I'm looking for. At least not right now. And so when I see somebody that finds. First of all, it gives me hope that you can always find somebody. They may not look like what you think you're gonna. What you're gonna want or what you're gonna need. It reminds me to stay open. You know the part where they talk about sitting on the couch and their legs intertwined? It's like to have that kind of intimacy with somebody without the expectation of a romance is. It's just. It just hits me right in my heart. I don't know. I'm moved. And I have this new neighbor, and she's great, and I can tell that she really misses the person that lived there before me. And not that she's Austin or anything like that, but I just think about the possibility of keeping yourself open and. And not running away from it, because look at the great reward. Look at the great reward between Victor and Austin. And it is a thing, too. It's like when all your friends are in relationships, you sort of. And you're like, nobody's emergency contact. You know, it can feel a little lonely. But there are other people out there that might be the same and looking for this total. You know, there might be a lid for my pot. I'm like. I hate that expression. But, you know, maybe my lid comes in the version of a lady with some comfortable slip on shoes checking me out at my mailbox.

[Anna Martin]

Your new neighbor. I was gonna say that the fact that you are keeping yourself open to this friendship with your neighbor lady.

[Bridget Everett]

No, I'm trying.

[Anna Martin]

You're trying. But that's breaking the end. The no new people rule. You're breaking the no new people rule, which is beautiful and amazing. And brave and human and all of those things.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And I just love that, you know, that. That she's like, okay, 4:30, you know, like, she's.

[Anna Martin]

She's bringing him in.

[Bridget Everett]

And what does she say? You know, you don't have the luxury, you know, like, later is for people who have time. Who have time. And honestly, like, the amount of loss I've experienced over the last few years, it's. We don't always have time. So.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, you know what?

[Bridget Everett]

So have the gin and tonic.

[Anna Martin]

Have the gin and tonic while you can. Absolutely. We'll be right back.

[Bridget Everett]

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[Anna Martin]

You know, you're speaking about this neighbor, and I want to ask too, like, reading this essay, obviously the friendship between Victor and Austin feels very similar to the. Or not similar. But it reminds me as resonances of the friendship between Sam, your character on somebody somewhere, and Joel, her best friend. And I wonder too, like, is there anyone in your real life where you read this essay and you're thinking about, you know, this friend.

[Bridget Everett]

Specifically? No. I mean, there's somebody when it comes to Joel that reminds me, you know, I did have what I thought was this person, and then, you know, they. And they're still, you know, we're still very close, you know, still one of my best friends. But, you know, but I miss that, you know. Cause then, you know, he's in a relationship now, and it just changes. And Sam says that to Joel, like, it's never gonna. It's not gonna be the same. And it doesn't mean that you can't that, you know, we still have a very valuable relationship. But I just think this was that.

[Anna Martin]

Huh? And it changed.

[Bridget Everett]

And it changed.

[Anna Martin]

You know, it's so interesting that you said.

[Bridget Everett]

And that's okay.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. I was gonna say, how did you. Yeah, of course it's okay.

[Bridget Everett]

And it was awful when it did.

[Anna Martin]

But it's so interesting what you're saying, because as much as you're willing to share, I feel like that's something I can relate to. I think many listeners can relate to it. And you said, it's really freaking hard.

[Bridget Everett]

It is.

[Anna Martin]

How did you get through that? Like, what did you tell yourself?

[Bridget Everett]

I mean, it took me a long time. I was really reactive, you know, reactionary and immature and, like. But he. And, you know. And at first, they kind of disappeared together. And that's also okay. Like, I understand both sides of it, like, why you want to get lost in a romantic relationship. And, you know, you think your friends are always going to be there. But I've kind of always been that person for people. I've always kind of been like, she'll be there. And after a while, you start to kind of. It affects you. And it's like, you don't want to feel like the second or third string. Just like, you can't help but feel that way. But I also don't think that just because somebody's in a romantic relationship that that means that you can't be a focal. You know, I'm trying to think of the right way. Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

A focal point in their life. A focal point in that you're, like, not the only one anymore.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And so you have to kind of acclimate and adjust, and sometimes you need your friend to let you know that they have this new, wonderful, romantic relationship. And. Great. And I am happy for my friend, and Sam is happy for Joel. But sometimes you need to know that you matter.

[Anna Martin]

It's accepting that you might not always be as primary to someone as they are to you.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And the truth is, a lot of my friendships are like, you know, if I ask them to do something, they're like, well, let me check with, you know, so and so first. And I understand that you have a life together, of course, but it does make. If everybody's around you is kind of like that, then you start to feel like, well, I'm just like, you know, I'm here when it's convenient for other people.

[Anna Martin]

Totally.

[Bridget Everett]

And it hurts. So seeing something like this is like. It just is. It's a dream, and it gives me a lot of Hope, I love what.

[Anna Martin]

You said that, you know, I asked you, what can you do as the friend who feels like the backup or whatever? And what you said is, it's really good for them to let you know you matter. It's to be reminded.

[Bridget Everett]

It feels like it's always up to the person that's, like, unattached. That's unattached. To kind of adapt and sort of. And you do, and you should, obviously. But I don't know. I'm probably being selfish, but I. I.

[Anna Martin]

Do not think you're being selfish at all. I mean, there's all these people. Refresh it. Yeah. Put it on. Be like I said it. No, but I think that's so. It's kind of a perfect distillation. I mean, a simple one, but I think a true one of what friendship can be. It's just looking someone in the eyes and saying, you matter. You matter to me. You will always matter to me. Yeah. That feels to me like that is what friendship is. You've just.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And I think there, you know, something like that happens in this season with Sam and Jo and, like. And. And she needs it.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. Can you describe a moment where you really felt sure that you mattered to a friend? Like, was there something someone did or said where you felt that?

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah, I think my friends know that I. You know, they. They tell me they love me. I know they do. I. I know that. I know that they do, but it's also up to me to hear it, you know? And that's.

[Anna Martin]

What do you mean by that?

[Bridget Everett]

Well, I mean, I have to be able to take it in, and it's, you know, it's. It's challenging sometimes.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Bridget Everett]

I was just with Mary Catherine, who plays Trisha, my sister on the show, and we used to be roommates, and, you know, and. And she said something to me. She's like, you know, I love you. Right. And I was like, you know, I'd had a couple margarinis, and I was like, don't try to unpack my. Me right now. But she's, you know, she's a great friend, and she's always done a lot. My friend Zach has really invested a lot of time into making me hear it, so. And I think that's kind of the most important part, that you have to. You have to let it in. Yeah. It's not easy.

[Anna Martin]

You know what I'm thinking, too, with, you know, people have expectations when we get older and we enter into romantic relationships that, like, friendship will become less important. Right. It's Just like, lower down on the hierarchy. It's less important than, you know, your spouse or your kids or your job or. Or whatever.

[Bridget Everett]

A whole host of things.

[Anna Martin]

Right. How can we cultivate close friendships in our adulthood when there's so much else competing for our time or for our friends time?

[Bridget Everett]

I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I guess that the, you know, my dream is to have a central, you know, be central in a friend's life again. And I don't know. I just. I love all my friends. I don't want to, you know, I don't want them to listen.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my God.

[Bridget Everett]

I don't want them to listen to this and think anything, you know, less than that. But when my friends are making me a priority, it matters.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Bridget Everett]

Because it is like all those things you say. Like, there's just. Life sweeps people up, and sometimes the friendships, you know, they become a backseat. And it's not that way for Sam and Joel. And that's what I love. I feel like it's fantasy.

[Anna Martin]

And it's so true that it's so clear rather that it's not that way for you. And I think. I mean, not to get a bit cheesy with it, but I think there are a lot of people who feel that way about friendships, and I do think that somebody somewhere helps those people feel very seen, as you say, those stories are. We have so many romantic comedies where it's, you know, girl meets guy or girl meets girl, guy meets guy, whatever. But it's romantic love. And the connective thing about your show is that that love story is a friendship.

[Bridget Everett]

Yeah. And learning to. And that it is central. But it's also just then how you can both go about your lives with keeping each other at the forefront. At the core. At the core. Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

My final question to you near the end of this essay. Victor tells Austin that their relationship has everything but sex. And he realizes that, quote, the greatest romances of my life have been friendships. What do you think about the idea of using romance to describe a friendship? That word. Does it work? Do we need better words to describe.

[Bridget Everett]

Oh, I love it. I love it. I say that all the time. I'm like, you know, with Sam and Joel, like, they. They fall in love with each other and. And I. It is a romance. It is like, you can. You can get swept off your feet by a friend, and you don't have. Just because, you know, there's. There may not be the sex involved. You are in love with them in some degree.

[Anna Martin]

Bridget Everett thank you so much. This was such a lovely and affirming conversation. I really appreciate it.

[Bridget Everett]

Thank you. I appreciate you having me.

[Anna Martin]

The Primetime Emmy Awards will air on September 14th on CBS, and you can find a link to Victor Lodato's essay, When youn Greatest Romance Is a Friendship in our show Notes. Modern Love is produced by Reeva Goldberg, Davis Land, Emily Lang and Amy Pearl. It's edited by Lynn Levy and our executive producer, Jen Poyant. Production management by Christina Josa. The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell. Original music in this episode by Rowan Nimisto, Dan Powell, Aman Sahota and Diane Wong. This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez and Efim Shapiro with studio support from Matty Masiello and Nick Pittman. Special thanks to Mihima Chablani and Jeffrey Miranda and to our video team, Brooke Minters, Sawyer Roque and Eddie Costas. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you want to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show Notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.

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