Podcast Summary: The Daily - ‘Modern Love’: How to Stop Asking ‘Are You Mad at Me?’
Introduction
In the August 3, 2025 episode of "The Daily," hosted by The New York Times, listeners are introduced to a compelling Modern Love episode titled “How to Stop Asking ‘Are You Mad at Me?’”. Hosted by Anna Martin, the episode features therapist and author Meg Josephson, who explores the pervasive anxiety surrounding the question "Are you mad at me?" and offers insights into overcoming this common relational concern.
Understanding the Persistent Question
Exploring the Root Causes (00:56 - 01:23)
Anna Martin opens the discussion by posing an everyday dilemma: "Do you ever find yourself wondering about people that are close to you? Do you ever find yourself wondering, are you mad at me?" (00:56). Natalie Kitroeff echoes this sentiment, admitting to frequently asking this question multiple times a day (01:06). Meg Josephson responds by indicating that this episode will delve into the origins of this anxiety, its underlying causes, and strategies to mitigate it (01:23).
The Fawning Response and Its Implications
Defining the Fawn Response (07:37 - 09:20)
Meg introduces the concept of the "fawn response," one of the four primary reactions to perceived threats, alongside fight, flight, and freeze (07:37). She explains that the fawn response involves appeasing the perceived threat to ensure safety, a behavior often rooted in childhood experiences with authority figures (08:53). This unconscious mechanism can become detrimental when it becomes a default behavior, leading to burnout, exhaustion, and a diminished sense of self (09:20).
Notable Quote:
Meg Josephson (08:53): “The fawn response says, my safety comes from pleasing you, and I can't feel regulated until you're regulated.”
Childhood Influences and Emotional Neglect
Impact of Parental Relationships (02:31 - 03:21)
Meg shares her personal history, recounting a volatile home environment where she constantly sought to manage her father's moods (02:31). This upbringing fostered a fear of authority and a pervasive belief in her own inherent flaws (03:00). Meg connects these childhood patterns to her adult life, illustrating how similar fears manifest in workplace dynamics and other relationships (03:21).
Notable Quote:
Meg Josephson (05:17): “I have to keep the peace the most when I'm easy and positive and happy to select and curate our emotions.”
Breaking the Cycle and Achieving Awareness
Journey to Self-Awareness (12:48 - 13:56)
Meg discusses her realization that her ingrained coping mechanisms were no longer serving her after moving out and gaining independence (12:48). She emphasizes that healing begins with awareness, recognizing that the behaviors developed in childhood are no longer beneficial in her adult life (13:32). This awareness allows her to identify and address the anxious patterns that once kept her safe but now hinder her personal growth (13:56).
Notable Quote:
Meg Josephson (13:32): “Healing starts with awareness. And we really can't heal anything until we're aware of it.”
Reading and Reflecting on 'My Three Years as a Beloved Daughter'
Insights from the Essay (20:20 - 35:08)
Meg reads her essay, "My Three Years as a Beloved Daughter" by Erin Brown, which poignantly captures the complexities of familial love and emotional neglect (20:20). The essay contrasts her emotionally distant western family with her friend's overtly loving east coast family, highlighting her longing for the latter’s unconditional affection and support (22:30 - 35:08). Through this narrative, Meg illustrates the profound impact of parental relationships on one’s self-worth and relational anxieties.
Notable Quote:
Meg Josephson (35:45): “I wanted them to forgive me for my part in losing the friendship, to tell me I was still theirs, even if they couldn't claim me.”
Coping with Emotional Neglect and Grief
Processing Grief and Longing (36:19 - 46:17)
Post-reading, Meg delves deeper into her personal experiences with emotional neglect and the grief associated with not being truly known by her parents (36:19). She recounts a heartbreaking moment when she attempted to connect with her father about her mother’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis, only to be met with emotional unavailability (43:38 - 39:07). This section underscores the enduring impact of unresolved childhood emotions on adult relationships and self-perception.
Notable Quote:
Meg Josephson (43:38): “This doesn't feel as present anymore, because I let myself feel it.”
Cultivating Compassion and Neutrality Towards Parents
Balancing Anger with Understanding (40:37 - 46:17)
Meg shares her path towards cultivating compassion for her parents despite the emotional neglect she endured (40:37). She explains that understanding her parents' pain and circumstances helps her disentangle her anger and grief from their actions (41:20). This journey towards neutrality allows her to acknowledge her feelings without personalizing the blame, fostering a healthier emotional state.
Notable Quote:
Meg Josephson (45:37): “Our parents' weaknesses become our own strengths because we're all just choosing something to improve upon from our parents and we're doing that.”
Conclusion
The episode wraps up with Anna Martin expressing gratitude to Meg Josephson for her candid and insightful discussion (46:13). Meg’s journey from persistent anxiety over relational conflicts to a place of self-awareness and compassion offers listeners valuable lessons on overcoming deep-seated emotional patterns. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding one’s past, recognizing maladaptive responses, and fostering a compassionate outlook towards oneself and one’s caregivers.
Final Notable Quote:
Meg Josephson (46:02): “If I have children one day, I'm sure they'll go to therapy for something I did. And that's okay.”
Key Takeaways
- Root Causes: Persistent questions like "Are you mad at me?" often stem from childhood experiences of emotional neglect and fear of authority.
- Fawn Response: This survival mechanism, while initially protective, can lead to burnout and identity loss when overused in adulthood.
- Self-Awareness: Healing begins with recognizing and understanding the origins of one’s anxious behaviors.
- Compassion for Parents: Developing empathy towards parents’ own struggles can help disentangle personal grief and foster emotional neutrality.
- Therapeutic Growth: Continuous self-reflection and therapy can help individuals overcome deep-seated emotional patterns and build healthier relationships.
This episode of "The Daily" offers a profound exploration of the emotional underpinnings behind common relational anxieties, providing listeners with actionable insights and a path towards emotional well-being.