Podcast Summary: The Daily - ‘Modern Love’: If You Want This Kind of Love, Don’t Expect it to be Easy
Episode Title: ‘Modern Love’: If You Want This Kind of Love, Don’t Expect it to be Easy
Release Date: June 1, 2025
Host: Anna Martin, The New York Times
Guest: Samaya Mushtaq
Introduction
In this poignant episode of The Daily, host Anna Martin engages in a deeply personal conversation with Samaya Mushtaq, whose journey through love, marriage, and profound personal challenges epitomizes the complexities of modern relationships. Drawing inspiration from her Modern Love essay, Samaya shares her transformative experiences, offering listeners profound insights into the nature of selfless love and resilience.
Early Relationships and First Marriage
Samaya Mushtaq's story begins with her aspirations of marrying a kind and emotionally straightforward Muslim man. Reflecting on her first marriage, she recalls:
“He was a good person. He seemed caring. There wasn't anything wrong with him. Sure, he's not emotionally complicated, but maybe emotionally being simple is a good thing.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [00:42]
Samaya married a man she met in college, expecting a harmonious and joyous union. However, as their marriage progressed, she felt an emotional void. Despite his caring nature, Samaya struggled to connect deeply, leading to moments of vulnerability that were met with emotional distance.
“Those moments where I was really vulnerable, talking about something, and the reaction wasn't like an emotional hug, and it was just... Those were so painful.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [01:32]
The Decision to Divorce
During medical school, Samaya faced immense stress and emotional turmoil, which further strained her marriage. Attempts at communication and couples therapy failed to bridge the growing gap between her and her husband. The culmination of these struggles led her to the painful decision to seek a divorce.
“I sat down, had my back against the door, and I just cried. And that's when I think I really understood. This is not something that's sustainable.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [02:01]
The moment her intention to divorce became public was particularly isolating. Surrounded by their families, Samaya felt a profound sense of loneliness and shame, compounded by the fear of societal judgment and self-doubt.
“I felt so solitary and so alone in that decision. I can't trust anything I think or feel or decisions I make.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [05:21]
Rebuilding and Finding Hope
After the divorce was finalized, Samaya experienced a sense of liberation and possibility. Embracing her newfound freedom, she ventured into the world of online dating with a clear intention to find a meaningful and supportive partnership.
“It felt like I had possibility again and that that was a good thing, that there was joy and excitement and anticipation.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [08:19]
Samaya sought a partner who embodied emotional support, intellectual connection, and a sense of home. Her criteria were clear: she desired someone who could be her emotional rock and best friend, capable of open and uncomplicated communication.
“I just wanted the person who was going to be my emotional rock.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [10:57]
Meeting Mahmoud: A New Beginning
Samaya met Mahmoud, a fellow medical professional, through a Muslim-specific dating app. Their connection was immediate and profound, characterized by mutual respect, deep conversation, and shared values.
“He has this ability when he's listening to you to make you feel like he's really just taking it all in.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [16:09]
Despite initial fears rooted in her previous marriage, Samaya found assurance in Mahmoud’s genuine interest and commitment. Their relationship quickly blossomed into a marriage built on mutual support, understanding, and shared love for their community and family.
Marriage Amidst Challenges: The COVID-19 Pandemic
Shortly after their marriage, the COVID-19 pandemic erupted, presenting unprecedented challenges. Working in their respective medical fields, both Samaya and Mahmoud navigated the chaos by fostering simple yet meaningful moments together.
“We talk about what it was like, the emotional aspect. We would sit outside, have chai. We would watch movies together. It was... just like this simple tranquility.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [22:02]
Their ability to maintain intimacy and support each other during such a tumultuous time strengthened their bond, laying a solid foundation for their growing family.
Expanding Their Family
Two years into their marriage, Samaya and Mahmoud welcomed their daughter, followed by their second child two years later. Mahmoud proved to be a nurturing and present father, deeply engaged in their children’s lives.
“He's just so present with the kids. It's his biggest source of joy.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [22:45]
A defining moment for Samaya was witnessing Mahmoud’s unwavering dedication as a father, exemplified when he comforted their sick daughter with grace and patience.
“Mahmoud just takes Maymuna out of the crib and gets her cleaned up in the bath. And he's just super comforting... a visual of who we are as parents.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [23:03]
Mahmoud’s Mission to Gaza: A Test of Love and Faith
The stability of their marriage was soon tested when Mahmoud felt a compelling call to volunteer in Gaza amidst escalating conflicts. This decision introduced profound uncertainty and fear into their lives, as Mahmoud's commitment to service intersected with the safety and well-being of their family.
Decision-Making Process:
“It’s like, this is what’s needed from us in this moment is to think outside of ourselves and our own nuclear families and to serve community and to serve humanity.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [30:48]
Despite the emotional and logistical challenges, both Samaya and Mahmoud mutually decided that Mahmoud's role in Gaza was a moral imperative. This decision underscored the depth of their commitment to each other and their shared values.
Departure:
The day Mahmoud left for Gaza was heart-wrenching. Samaya vividly remembers capturing a final smile before his departure, a moment symbolizing both fear and hope.
“He was like, are you taking pictures of me because you think I won't come back? And I said, yeah, yeah, that's exactly why I'm doing that.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [30:57]
Communication and Uncertainty:
While Mahmoud was away, communication was sporadic and filled with uncertainty. The intermittent voice notes and messages from Mahmoud provided limited reassurance and heightened Samaya’s anxiety about his safety.
“The mind will try to rationalize... But the truth is you don't know. You cannot predict. You have no idea what tomorrow will bring.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [34:26]
Ground Invasion and Final Mission:
As the situation in Gaza intensified with a ground invasion, Mahmoud’s mission became increasingly perilous. The reality that he might not return loomed large, deepening Samaya’s fears and the emotional strain on their family.
“The day Mahmoud told me, we're not leaving on the date that we are supposed to leave... Now we're actually at the point where he really might not come back.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [37:15]
Enduring Through Crisis: Love Transcending Fear
Throughout Mahmoud’s deployment, Samaya grappled with intense emotions, balancing her unwavering support for Mahmoud’s mission with the innate fear of loss. Their relationship was further tested, requiring immense strength and faith.
Reuniting:
Upon Mahmoud’s safe return, their reunion was deeply emotional. Mahmoud expressed gratitude for Samaya’s support, highlighting the mutual respect and recognition that fortified their bond.
“He said, I just want to thank you for being so supportive of this. So supportive of me.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [40:05]
This acknowledgment symbolized a profound understanding and appreciation of each other’s sacrifices and unwavering commitment to their shared values.
Reflections and Lessons on Love
In the closing segments of the episode, Samaya reflects on her journey, offering heartfelt advice to those seeking deep, meaningful love. She emphasizes the importance of resilience, selflessness, and the willingness to navigate hardships together.
“Don't expect it to be easy. This love is not convenient. So you have to get out of that space of wanting the love that serves you and recognizing that this kind of love is... you're in service. Your service builds a love like this.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [41:57]
Conclusion
Samaya Mushtaq’s story is a testament to the enduring power of love, faith, and resilience. Her journey from a challenging first marriage to a deeply fulfilling partnership with Mahmoud illustrates that true love requires not only passion and connection but also unwavering support, selflessness, and the courage to face life's adversities together. This episode of Modern Love serves as an inspiring narrative for anyone navigating the complexities of modern relationships, reminding us that the most profound love stories are often forged in the crucible of life's greatest challenges.
Notable Quotes with Timestamps
-
Samaya on Emotional Disconnect in First Marriage:
“He was a good person. He seemed caring. There wasn't anything wrong with him. Sure, he's not emotionally complicated, but maybe emotionally being simple is a good thing.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [00:42] -
Pain of Emotional Vulnerability:
“Those moments where I was really vulnerable, talking about something, and the reaction wasn't like an emotional hug, and it was just... Those were so painful.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [01:32] -
Realization of Unsustainable Marriage:
“This is not something that's sustainable.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [02:01] -
Feeling of Loneliness During Divorce:
“I felt so solitary and so alone in that decision. I can't trust anything I think or feel or decisions I make.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [05:21] -
Liberation Post-Divorce:
“It felt like I had possibility again and that that was a good thing, that there was joy and excitement and anticipation.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [08:19] -
Desire for Emotional Rock:
“I just wanted the person who was going to be my emotional rock.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [10:57] -
Mahmoud’s Listening Ability:
“He has this ability when he's listening to you to make you feel like he's really just taking it all in.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [16:09] -
Mahmoud’s Presence as Father:
“He's just so present with the kids. It's his biggest source of joy.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [22:45] -
Decision to Serve Humanity:
“It's like, this is what’s needed from us in this moment is to think outside of ourselves and our own nuclear families and to serve community and to serve humanity.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [30:48] -
Handling Uncertainty:
“The mind will try to rationalize... But the truth is you don't know. You cannot predict. You have no idea what tomorrow will bring.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [34:26] -
Support in Crisis:
“He just wants you home safely, by whatever means, however long it takes.”
— Mahmoud in voice note [38:09] -
Samaya’s Advice on Love:
“Don't expect it to be easy. This love is not convenient. So you have to get out of that space of wanting the love that serves you and recognizing that this kind of love is... you're in service. Your service builds a love like this.”
— Samaya Mushtaq [41:57]
Produced by: Sarah Curtis and Emily Lang
Edited by: Gianna Palmer
Executive Editor: Jen Poyant
Fact-Checking: Ena Alvarado
Production Management: Christina Josa
Theme Music: Dan Powell
Original Music: Alicia Ba Itoub and Rowan Nimisto
Mixed by: Daniel Ramirez
Studio Support: Matty Masiello and Nick Pittman
Special Thanks to: Larissa Anderson, Behemoth Chablani, Jeffrey Miranda, and Paula Schumann
To read Samaya Mushtaq’s detailed Modern Love essay, visit nytimes.com/podcasts.