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Parenting a Trans Kid in Trump’s America
00:43:54
Since starting his second term, President Trump has thrown the full weight of the federal government behind the denying the idea of transgender identity, and pushing to prevent trans minors from getting gender-affirming medical care. Two parents of a trans child discuss facing the scramble of supporting their child, and their fears of becoming targets of the government.
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- [00:00]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
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Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
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Parent 1 (likely the mother)
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- [00:27]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
My name is. I live in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I've got four kids, and my wife and I decided a few months ago that we needed to pack up and move. We actually feel like asylum seekers in our own country. Our hope is is that in Connecticut, the powers that be will be able to protect us. We're leaving all our friends behind. We've been here for 13 years. All our family lives in the South. We'll be a thousand miles away. I don't know. The whole thing is heartbreaking.
- [01:07]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
My.
- [01:07]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
My wife cried a bunch this morning because we're gonna do a big farewell party this afternoon and do a little country boil and say our goodbyes. All the best.
- [01:25]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
From the New York Times. I'm Natalie Kitrowak. This is the daily. Since coming into office, President Trump has thrown the full weight of the federal government behind denying the very idea of transgender identity and pushing to prevent trans minors from. From getting gender affirming medical treatments. In the middle of all that, are families scrambling to figure out how to best support their children without becoming targets of the government? Today, we talk to one of those families. It's Friday, November 21st. Cute. I'm guessing that their house is this one with the trans flag. A few months ago, we went to Connecticut to visit the dad who'd reached out to us. Hello. Hey. Hi. He and his wife greeted us at the door and showed us to their living room. Well, should we get set up?
- [02:31]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Do we want to find a place.
- [02:32]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
Where we can all sit down or.
- [02:33]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Well, you think this is probably it?
- [02:35]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
Yeah, the room is clean, so it has to be here.
- [02:39]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
They asked us not to use their names because they were afraid of being targeted. They said they never expected to find themselves living in Connecticut. They both grew up in South Carolina, both raised in church every Sunday kind of families. While they were in college, they ended up at the same conference.
- [02:56]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
He came in late and joined my group. And then we met as a small group and we were talking about issues and he kept talking about, well, I wonder, like, what women think about this. And I was like, oh, wow. Like, who is this guy? He kept saying all this Stuff, you know, about like, feminism and women. And I thought, wow, this is something different, right?
- [03:22]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
And that's just how I talked all the time. Had nothing to do with the fact that I really thought she was something special. I just going around in groups and saying, what do women think about this?
- [03:33]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
They hit it off, started dating, got married, had kids, they moved to Florida and became ministers. Things were good. One problem, and this was a very specific problem, was that they were ministers at different churches, making them what's referred to apparently as a two church family.
- [03:53]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
We had been serving two separate congregations and it just was too hard to be a two church family. Like, running back and forth between all the meetings and the churches and like, we never really spent any of the kind of sacred holidays together. And so we.
- [04:10]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
In 2013, they found their solution in Tennessee at a church where they could both work. By then, they had four children and they moved the whole family to a house on a cul de sac.
- [04:20]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
The moment where I was like, oh, we're home, was there were fireflies and our kids had not seen fireflies. And so we all went outside and we call fireflies and that sort of thing. And of course, the nostalgia. Haven't grown up in the south to then see my kids doing that. It was like, yeah, very much an indicator that this was. Was home.
- [04:49]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
The whole time we lived there, I kept saying, this is our forever home. This is our forever him.
- [04:55]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
In Tennessee, they were doing the thing all parents do, trying to get to know their kids as they turn from who they might be to who they are. But with their third child, that was harder. They've asked us to call her Allie. Allie had been born a biological boy. And from the start, she felt different from their other children, harder to reach.
- [05:17]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
I think she was the one child I always felt like that I didn't know her.
- [05:26]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
What do you mean by that? That you didn't know her?
- [05:28]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
I don't just sometimes you think about your kids and you're like, oh, I know what this one would want. Like, I mean, silly things like birthday gifts or like, I know what they would think about this show, or, I know, I wonder what they would say if I asked them, you know, what they wanted to do with their life. And she was just a little out of grasp of being able to nail down who she was. Not in a bad way, but just a yearning. As a parent, I just mentally remember thinking, I need to get to know her more.
- [06:02]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
From early on, Allie seemed to her parents an effeminate boy. She loved all things purple and used to dress up in her sister's ballet outfits. Once when her dad kicked her a soccer ball, she performed a plie. But she was still a little kid and her parents didn't really know what to make of it all, if anything.
- [06:22]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
I mean, I don't. I don't think we were equipped to know what we were experiencing. So I think very early on we thought, oh, this one might be gay.
- [06:36]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Was there a moment that you remember kind of starting to realize, huh, this might not be a sexuality thing. We. We might be looking at something that's more connected to gender.
- [06:49]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Not me.
- [06:50]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
I was really slow on the uptake.
- [06:52]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Yeah, me too.
- [06:53]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
As Ali got older, though, this difference became harder to ignore. Particularly, they both say during this one family trip they took in 2022.
- [07:02]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
And then we went to Spain.
- [07:06]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
Oh, okay. I was wondering if you went.
- [07:08]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Yeah, we went to Spain. And I think. I think we were maybe in different places a little bit at this point. And we went into the shop and then Ali found these headbands. And they were made out of metal and they were flowers and they were really pretty. They were very expensive. And we had given them maybe like €50 each to have us spending money on the trip. And I just said, that's a lot of money. And so we will walked out. And then as we left, she's like, I really want to get those. And I thought, okay. And you, I think you were a little more hesitant. Like, let's just go, what is she going to do? And so I remember us having this conversation, like, what does she want with a headband? And I was like, I think, do.
- [07:54]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
You remember that conversation?
- [07:56]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
I do. I. Yes. She wanted some tiara flowery looking thing. And we're traveling in a different country and I wasn't there yet. And I was scared for, for her, it. Whenever she wore something that presented more feminine to school, I was always like, I was afraid that. That someone would physically assault her.
- [08:34]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
And so we didn't get it. And then we came home and it was actually her younger sister's birthday who wanted to get her ears pierced. And so where do you go to get your ears pierced? Claire's at the mall. And so we were. It's like a rite of passage. And so Allie asked, well, can I get my ears pierced? And I thought, okay. And so, like, just one. And she's like, no, I went both. And I was like, okay. So she got them both pierced. And then she also said, can I get this headband? And I mean, it was very, very feminine. And she was already wearing at this point her lavender chucks and her purple sweater. And so now we had the headband and the earrings. I remember walking out of the mall because she had started puberty. Like she was growing. And how old was she? I think she, she must have been in seventh grade at this point. So 12, 13. But it's not cute anymore for others, right? Like, to see a boy dressed as a girl is not cute. And I remember walking through the mall and I walked ahead of her because I wanted to just kind of survey, like, you know, just keeping safe. And I like saw men look at her and with this like 30ish year old men, like I saw two look at her and then take a double take with this just hate on their face. I mean, I could see it and it was really scary and I didn't want her to see it. So I'm like, okay guys, let's go, let's go get in the car. It was kind of walking fast also, like tears are falling. I didn't want her to see that I was upset. But she was a light. I mean, she was a light.
- [10:20]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
There's something that's complicated I can imagine about this being a moment when in some ways you're seeing your child who's never felt happier, who's never looked happier, and at the same time you've never felt more scared for her. Like the thing that makes her so happy is the same thing that might put her in danger.
- [10:50]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Absolutely, yeah. And it's the. I think it's the fear of not being able to protect her, which is honestly like that fear has never abated.
- [11:13]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Hmm.
- [11:15]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
How do you protect her? How do you keep her safe? And also how do you let her live into her joy without scaring her, you know?
- [11:27]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Over the next few years, Alli's parents tried to make home a safe place for her. They encouraged her to open up, to. To be herself, to share how she was feeling. At the same time, they noticed she was changing, growing quieter, spending a lot of time in her room alone.
- [11:44]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
I felt the most disconnected from her than I had ever felt in terms of like what I was talking about earlier, like, just wishing I had known her more.
- [11:54]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
They put her in therapy, tried to be patient, but still she seemed to get more and more distant. Then she started having issues at school. Allie had always been a good student, the kind of kid who never really got in trouble. But starting in junior high, there were a few incidents that began prompting calls to home about what Allie was typing on school computers.
- [12:16]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
And one of Them was a poem. She says it wasn't a poem. It read like a poem. But this one was about that nobody could ever know how she really felt, that she would wear a smile, and everybody needed to think that she was happy, but that she wasn't happy. And her body was ugly. And they have their computers bark alerted.
- [12:42]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Bark Alerts is like the school has.
- [12:45]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
An alert where the school computers. And if you type something in there or look up something, it'll alert the administration that this is alarming. And this was the third incident where she had done something that alerted the principal. And so after one of the times she got in trouble, I said, I'm going to go through your phone. And she didn't like that. I don't use that privilege a lot. But I started seeing messages to friends that had been happening over the year where she would say, I'm feeling it again. Like, I just. I, you know, are you there? Like, she would text her friends and ask her there. So apparently she'd been leaning on her friends for a while when she was feeling these feelings. And she started. It was a tool, but it had, like, a screwdriver on it. And I think she was using that to scrape herself, to cut herself. So I kept seeing these marks on her arm. And I said, what? You know, what are those? And, you know, she was like, oh, I just was scratching my arm. And so I think she was.
- [13:47]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
It was, of course, all very alarming to Allie's parents at home. They took her to their bedroom, sat her down, and started asking questions. What was actually going on with her? What was this feeling she was texting her friends about? And this poem that wasn't a poem. Was this really how she felt about her body?
- [14:07]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
I remember just having questions about the poem. I get, you know, ask, you know, is she okay? I mean, these are the things that were in my head because I. It sounded awful the way she said she was feeling. You know what? I also wanted to know, like, is this just a poem?
- [14:26]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
At a certain point, something clicked for Allie's mom. She remembered this thing she'd read about called gender dysphoria, the idea that the gender you feel doesn't match your biological sex.
- [14:37]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
And so I started googling that and said, you. You know, is this what you're feeling? And I started reading the symptoms, and she said, yes, yes, yes. And then we looked at, like, well, how do you. It sounded awful. It sounded like she was having an outer body experience. And I have anxiety and I'll get panic attacks sometimes. And when I feel that way. It's when I'm feeling out of body. I just don't like that feeling. And so I asked her, like, how often do you feel this way? And she says, I've felt this way since I can remember.
- [15:13]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Wow.
- [15:13]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
And I just thought, holy cow. Like, I cannot imagine spending my entire life feeling like that. And it was at that point that I was like, would you be more comfortable going by she. Her pronouns? And she said, yes. It was just like, the sigh of relief. And then I said, why didn't you tell us? Like, I mean, you know, we love you and support you. And she said, it's just an awkward conversation to have.
- [15:42]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Right?
- [15:42]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
You know, to kind of sit your parents down and say, like, okay, this is it. Like, just to name it was too.
- [15:47]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Awkward with everything that was happening with her, you know, the self harm. Was there a moment when, for example, you thought, maybe there's something other than gender dysphoria going on, like, maybe there are other mental health issues that cross your mind?
- [16:10]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
For me, it was now the scripture by the fruits, you will know them. Generally not applied to this particular conversation, but when you see your child at their happiest, when they get their ears pierced or wear a tiara or put on a dress and go to the Barbie movie, and you're like, my child is flourishing. That's not some other mental health thing. That's somebody. Flourishing is not a sign of struggling mental health.
- [16:56]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Yeah. I mean, I felt like she was on the other end of this rope, and I just could not, like, reel her in, and, like, I just couldn't get close enough to her. And when all this happened in this bedroom, it was like she was right beside me, like, the thing that I had been craving. And it made sense now. Like, that's why, like, she had to keep her distance because she couldn't be who she really was around us, and she was protecting herself. And I think when that guard was down, then she was like. It was immediate.
- [17:39]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Yeah.
- [17:40]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
And like, our life changed because in that conversation, we knew that lots of things were about to change. Not just. Not just pronouns. Because my wife, after Allie, lit up about the pronouns. What did you say? You're like, all right, here's question two.
- [18:03]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Yeah. And then immediately I did say, like, okay, do you want to. I don't even know what I called it. I don't even know if I called it the right thing. But look at hormone replacement therapy. And she said, yes. And she was a light. I mean, I knew it all clicked.
- [18:27]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Did you have Any hesitation about offering up the kind of option of a medical intervention that quickly that immediately I didn't.
- [18:40]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
You know, in hindsight, it really wasn't this like all of a sudden thing. Like, we had noticed this about her since she was, you know, two or three. It felt to me like what I had been seeing her struggle with over the past year had been that she was going through puberty. It was the body changing that is unchangeable once she goes through puberty that was causing all of this dysphoria. What I thought is, the sooner she gets on this, then the slower, then you know, puberty can be paused and she now has time to really think this through. So what I knew was to say, okay, do you wanna get on hormone blockers to figure this out? Because at least it can stop it for a moment and pause it while you figure this out. That's okay.
- [19:38]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
The very next day, Allie's parents started making moves. They made two appointments for her, One with her therapist and one with her doctor. It felt like a relief to finally be doing something they thought would help her. But on the way to the doctor, it dawned on Allie's mom that what had felt like a deeply personal issue, a private family matter that was about to run headlong into politics.
- [20:04]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Like, I had kind of had known that there had been some laws that they had been trying to pass in Tennessee, but honestly, like, it was hard to keep track. And so I do remember there being some anti trans laws on the books or at least being up for debate. And so on the way to the doctor's office and I was like, you know what? I don't. Now I think about it, I do remember them debating this too. And so I asked her, like, to Google it. Like, Google, can we get health care?
- [20:38]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Wow, you are, you are literally googling whether you can get this.
- [20:41]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
On the way to the doctors. Yeah, on the way to the doctors.
- [20:43]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
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Parent 2 (likely the father)
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- [21:08]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
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Parent 1 (likely the mother)
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Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
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Parent 1 (likely the mother)
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Parent 2 (likely the father)
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Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
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Parent 1 (likely the mother)
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Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
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Parent 1 (likely the mother)
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- [22:05]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
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Parent 1 (likely the mother)
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Parent 1 (likely the mother)
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- [22:36]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Allie and her mom met with the therapist and the doctor who both agreed that exploring gender affirming care was a good idea. But they also confirmed the family's fears. Tennessee had banned those treatments for minors in 2023. That ban had grown out of a number of concerns, some of them moral, some of them religious. But there was also a real debate within the medical community over the right treatment for these kids, over whether to intervene as early as possible or whether to wait until they reached adulthood. Ali's doctor and therapist said if the family wanted to seek that treatment, they were gonna have to look outside of Tennessee.
- [23:13]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
So I went home and told my husband and we just started, I mean, it was right up on Thanksgiving. So I remember over the Thanksgiving break, like right before it, we were googling, like, what could you do? But the thing.
- [23:25]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Allie and her parents reviewed the evidence, talked it over, and started researching where she could get care.
- [23:32]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
And so I just remember both of us would like spend a couple of days tracking down, you know, like, I tried, we each tried a couple different places in Georgia. I remember he spent like, he was on the phone with like four different people, like, getting it to happen. We got insurance to approve it. We got all of the stuff. And then we're ready to make the appointment. And the last person we talked to says, oh, we can't provide care for a youth from Tennessee. We're not allowed to do that border because of your laws, I guess, or I don't know.
- [24:01]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Half the country had bans like the one in Tennessee. And so a lot of clinics had closed. The ones that were still open had long waiting lists and many of them wouldn't accept ali because at 14, she was too young. They'd stop taking anyone under the age of 16.
- [24:16]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
We couldn't find anyone who would give care to her.
- [24:20]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
But then they had a breakthrough.
- [24:22]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
One clinic called back and there had been a cancellation. And we were able to go in, like, I think that was on a Friday, and we were able to go in on a Monday.
- [24:32]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
They'd landed a spot at the clinic at the University of Virginia. It was eight hours away from their home in Tennessee.
- [24:39]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
It's like, okay, it's eight hours away. That's what we'll do. So it wasn't a question of whether we were gonna do it. It was just, how hard is it gonna be?
- [24:48]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Do you remember the first time that Ali goes to the clinic and what it was like when she starts care?
- [24:56]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
So I drove Allie up for her first appointment at the clinic at uva. We stayed overnight, hotel, got up early, went there. She was excited. I honestly was excited to be able to. It felt like I was being a good dad. It was like. It just felt right. It's like I'm doing right by my child. That's what I was feeling. Yeah. I was proud.
- [25:34]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
I feel like I can see you getting emotional just about thinking about that moment. What's going through your head?
- [25:47]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
It feels existential to get that gender affirming care for her. And the relief that she expressed that showed when we got on was like, she didn't have to carry that anymore. She trusted that we were going to take care of her, and it was like, we got to. She didn't have to fight for herself. And so I really don't see it any differently than some other health need.
- [26:29]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
But just as things started falling into place for Allie and her parents, national politics began to change.
- [26:35]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Yeah, so, I mean, some of this happened before January of the inauguration. And so, you know, I had fears about what might happen. I knew they were attacking trans rights, and I knew that they were gonna go after them. I think I just thought that certainly this isn't like they would protect our kids.
- [27:05]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Things hadn't exactly been easy up until this point, but Ally's parents had figured out a way to make it work. But then I will take historic action.
- [27:15]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
To defeat the toxic poison of gender.
- [27:18]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Ideology and reaffirm that God created two.
- [27:21]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Genders, male and female.
- [27:26]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
As soon as Trump came to office, he started following through on the promises he'd made during his campaign to limit access to treatment for trans youth. Attorney General Pam Bondi issuing a warning.
- [27:38]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
To the transgender medical industry, saying, quote.
- [27:41]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Medical professionals and organizations that mutilated children.
- [27:45]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
In the service of a warped ideology will be held accountable by this Department of Justice.
- [27:50]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
We've Issued subpoenas to major manufacturers of.
- [27:53]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
The drugs used in trans related medical interventions for possible violations of drug marketing laws.
- [28:00]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Hospitals from Los Angeles to New York City have been canceling gender transition surgeries and hormone therapy appointments for minors.
- [28:12]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Suddenly, not only did it feel harder than ever to get Allie treatment, her parents began to worry they may be targeted for pursuing it at all. Families with children who depend on that care say they feel shocked.
- [28:23]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
And today, many in the LGBTQ community waking up with a sense of fear. Many parents are scrambling to learn next steps.
- [28:34]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
So they started to be much more cautious about everything. The littlest things began to feel like a risk.
- [28:42]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Now, when she wanted to do a play date with somebody, I was very hesitant to let her go play with her friends. I didn't know whose parents were safe. I didn't. I didn't trust the people in my neighborhood anymore. I didn't tell anyone. I. I was scared all the time. So then it started getting to the point where, like, the safety that we felt on our street and our community no longer felt safe. I didn't know who I could trust anymore. You know, we had to get blood work for her for one of her doctor's appointments. And even my pediatrician was like, I don't. I don't know who you can go to. So let's just go to this person and just tell him you want to get this blood work for another reason, but don't tell them what it's really for, because if they participated in gender affirming care, then they could lose their license. So now you're having to lie to doctors. Yeah, Nothing feels sure.
- [29:40]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
So at what point do you guys start talking seriously about the idea of maybe having to leave Tennessee?
- [29:50]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
We were already kind of talking about it. I don't know. You always kind of talked about was, I would go through periods where I was like, I've got to get. We've got to get out of here. Especially when we started experiencing all these issues with getting healthcare. And so we just started researching, like, where can we live? And.
- [30:13]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
And you're looking for, what's the criteria that you're using?
- [30:16]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Criteria? Yeah. Criteria is states that are blue. We looked at, there's maps that show laws that protect trans youth in which states have those that are the most protective. So those were the top two criteria. And then of course, like, affordability. Where could we live with a family of six. And good schools. We needed to find affirming schools where they were going to be safe.
- [30:44]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
You.
- [30:44]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Know, public schools that would support them and so those were kind of our criteria.
- [30:50]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Did Allie know that you guys were talking about this and doing all this research?
- [30:55]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
So Allie had told her therapist she did not want to move. She had other friends that were trans, and she wanted to stay and fight for them. And like I said, like, it was unimaginable, the executive orders that were, you know, the things that were happening. And so she really didn't want to leave. And then our oldest daughter came up to New York to audition for some schools, college schools. And I remember us walking around outside of Columbia University, and I looked up and saw a pride flag outside of the hospital. And my cousin, I looked at her and said, is that. Is that the hospital? And she said, yeah. I was like, they have a pride flag hanging out the hospital. And she was like, absolutely. And I was like, what? Like, it's just out there? And she's like, yes. Like, there's. You'll find that everywhere here. And I thought, this is. It's truly unreal. And so we came home and told Allie about that and said, I think this is what it could be like. And, like, her therapist and I had a conversation because we thought she. She wants to stay because she wants to fight, but I don't think she understands. Like, it's too far gone. Like, we. We got to keep her safe. And so that was a hard conversation. But when we started, like, painting the picture of her, of what life could look like, and these spaces where, like, there's a pride flag outside of a hospital and there's, like, bathrooms that say you can come, like. Like, there's a government that'll support you. I just think none of us realized that was a possibility. And so she started getting excited and was like, okay.
- [32:37]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
New York City was out of the question for them, too expensive. But they'd heard about a school in Connecticut that could be a good fit for Allie. So they reached out.
- [32:46]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
We went to a fundraiser for Queer Youth Services, and we met various, like, school administrators. They were just like, we will protect your child. Your child will be safe here. And my wife, like, started crying, like, pretty much as soon as we, like, walked in. And then it did.
- [33:09]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
It was like that sense of home that we hadn't felt in so long since, at least in the last several months. What. We walked into that space, and it really did feel like this sense of home.
- [33:27]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
It's like you're being told, move here. Yeah. And.
- [33:30]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
And, like, we weren't this anomaly where there was actually a community. And so then to have people that understand and to meet Other parents that have moved across the country. I mean, we're. There's lots of us.
- [33:48]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Hmm.
- [33:49]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
You know, we're at this thing, and they introduce us to at least three other parents who had moved from the south to Connecticut. And all of a sudden, and you're like, okay, we're not alone. And to me, that's. Yeah. That pretty much locked it up for us that this is where we needed to be.
- [34:12]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Once they decided on Connecticut, they started calling around to clinics and pretty quickly found a provider who was willing to take Allie on. Then they packed up that house on the cul de sac that they'd thought would be their forever home. They said goodbye to their neighbors whom they'd loved. It was excruciating, but it also felt right. But then, before they even got to the first appointment at the new clinic, they hit roadblocks.
- [34:42]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
We. We thought we had a person that was gonna do gender affirming care when we got here. And I saw on this Facebook group that they had issued subpoenas to several different hospitals across the country at gender affirming care. And so hospitals were starting to get a little nervous. And so I immediately called the person that we had talked to about getting her care, and they said they had stopped giving care for anyone under the age of 19.
- [35:17]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Wow.
- [35:18]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
We got on the Yale list for 2026 just in time to find out that they had shuttered their clinics. And it just kind of feels like people are yanking away chairs, like, in this, like, musical chair nightmare for kids, and we're just, like, running around, and everybody's just, like. In this full scramble to try to continue.
- [35:51]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
The healthcare, they'd been banking on Connecticut as a safe haven, a place where everything would be easier for Allie. But as it turned out, it wasn't as simple as blue state immediate access to care. The new rules and new threats from the Trump administration seemed to touch every corner of the country. Clinics were closing just in anticipation of legal action from the federal government. Ali's parents said it felt like the ground kept shifting underneath them. Ally's parents were able to track down a new provider that agreed to treat someone her age, and they got an appointment. But even that felt precarious.
- [36:33]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
We haven't had the first appointment yet. This is where we think we'll go, but nothing feels sure right now. So we have all we have, like, plan A, B, C and D. So it's private.
- [36:45]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
It's not part of a big hospital and won't hopefully be as vulnerable to Medicaid, Medicare, sort of restrictions. But there's a lot of writing on the wall that there might be a federal rule coming in the next month or so. And so, I mean, definitely back on the Internet trying to figure out which country.
- [37:18]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
I didn't know that.
- [37:25]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
Well, which country, which country might be better.
- [37:37]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Is this the first time you're hearing this? Yeah. What's going on for you right now?
- [37:46]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
It's, I don't know, it was just so overwhelming. We just want our child to thrive. It's also like financial, like, we put every, I mean, this wasn't, this was not easy moving here. Like, we put everything, like all of our resources in it and just don't know what we'll do.
- [38:16]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
I, I, there's part of me that I guess it really, it's like if somebody gets really sick and you realize like, what really matters and, and in our case right now, like, I know what I really value, what really matters, and it's the health and well being of my whole family. And if we have to do that somewhere else, we do that somewhere else. And if that means that we don't have, you know, if we're even further away, then that's, I guess it's word what it takes to, but to feel like a, a stranger in what used to be like your country or to feel like a, a refugee. I just don't know what's happened to our, to our nation. I don't recognize it.
- [39:38]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Is it still clear to you, even with all of that, that you made the right choice in moving and moving to Connecticut?
- [39:48]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, we didn't have a chance in Tennessee. And like I said, I, I think we are still blown away by what life can be like for queer folks here. Like church services where there was a pride service or where like they're talking to the children about. Every single one of you is made in the image of God. Like, you know, our town has pride festivals. Like, you know, the governor is going to fight for you. Like, I think the difference is that, I mean, the, you know, the principal of one of the schools said she promised to keep her child safe. Like, the difference is, is that people are fighting for her here. They were not, they were not back home.
- [40:39]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
And how's Allie doing right now?
- [40:43]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
She's doing great. I mean, like, I think, don't you?
- [40:47]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
Yeah, she's got her pride flag up in the room.
- [40:52]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
And I mean, she is talkative. She was never really talkative before. She, she still is an introvert. So she's on her room a lot. But now she wants to share what she's doing, what she's listening to. She, like, if we, you know, our drive to school is 30 minutes and so there I'm back. She wants to share like, like she's into some interesting podcasts. She wants me to listen to them with her. And yeah, like, it's. That's all that's new and, you know, is trying new things. You know, like some things at school were. I thought, how's she gonna react to that? And was a little worried about, like, her in that space. And we told people who she was and they accepted her and she made a group of friends. And so I think she is thriving. She misses her friends, but she's. I think she's thriving.
- [42:03]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Well, I want to thank you both so much for, for your time and for being so open with us. Thank you.
- [42:11]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Thanks.
- [42:11]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
Yeah, thank you.
- [42:23]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Since we spoke, Allie's parents say she's begun treatment at a clinic in Connecticut. We'll be right back.
- [42:52]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
What happens when an ancient rose farm in France becomes an open sky laboratory? And how can a cosmetology program in India offer a road to economic empowerment? Hi there. I'm Isabella Rossellini, and in the latest episode of this Is Not a Beauty podcast from l' Oreal Group, we speak to an organic flower farmer and a beauty school graduate and how beauty shapes business. Listen now on your favorite podcast platform.
- [43:23]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
This is an advertisement for Chevron. Growing up in China, Zoe Zhang excelled at computational geophysics, even though she was told that STEM subjects were not for girls.
- [43:32]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
I wanted to use my skills to solve real world problems.
- [43:36]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
Zoe started out in Chevron's oil and gas business. Now she's applying her expertise to renewables. She's working to turn methane from dairy.
- [43:44]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Farms into transportation fuel. She also built a machine learning model.
- [43:47]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
With more than 150 layers of data to map out where Chevron's compressed natural gas fueling stations. Integrating that renewable natural gas from dairy farms should go. Because smart, data driven decisions can help scale the use of lower carbon intensity transportation fuels.
- [44:02]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
The raw data helps us put our.
- [44:04]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Stations where there's demand that could help our trucking customers meet their carbon emissions reductions goals.
- [44:13]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
To learn how human ingenuity is helping power the world, visit chevron.com.
- [44:24]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Here's what else you need to know today. On Thursday, President Trump accused half a dozen congressional Democrats of sedition and said they should be punished by execution for imploring members of the US Military to reject any illegal orders that they may receive from Trump. I'm Senator Alyssa Slotkin, Senator Mark Kelly.
- [44:45]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Representative Chris d', Aluisio, Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander.
- [44:48]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Representative CHRIS the lawmakers, all of whom served either in the military or in the intelligence community, had delivered that message in a video earlier this week. While the lawmakers didn't specify which orders may be illegal, several of them have worried aloud about the legality of Trump's orders to kill suspected drug smugglers in the Caribbean and his orders to deploy troops in U.S. cities.
- [45:13]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Right now, the threats to our Constitution aren't just coming from abroad, but from.
- [45:17]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Right here at home.
- [45:18]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
Our laws are clear.
- [45:19]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
You can refuse illegal orders.
- [45:21]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
You can refuse illegal orders.
- [45:23]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
You must refuse illegal orders.
- [45:26]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
No one has to carry out orders that violate the law.
- [45:29]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
And. An unlikely mix of Democrats and Republicans came together on Thursday to pay tribute to former Vice President Dick Cheney during his funeral service in Washington. Among those in attendance were former Vice Presidents Mike Pence and Kamala Harris and former Presidents Joe Biden and George W. Bush.
- [45:55]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
25 years ago, I had a big choice to make, a big job to fill.
- [46:00]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
I want to know all my options.
- [46:02]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
So I enlisted the help of a distinguished former White House chief of staff.
- [46:05]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
And secretary of defense to lead my.
- [46:08]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
Search for running running mate Dick Cheney. And I went through the files name by name.
- [46:13]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
In his eulogy, Bush recounted his unexpected decision to pick Cheney as his vice president against the wishes of some of his advisors.
- [46:22]
Parent 2 (likely the father)
I remember my dad's words when I told him what I was planning. He said, son, you couldn't pick a better man.
- [46:28]
Natalie Kitroeff (Host/Reporter)
Notably absent were President Trump and his vice president, J.D. vance, both critics of Cheney. Neither of them were invited to the funeral. Today's episode was produced by Eric Krupke. It was edited by Devin Taylor with help from Ben Calhoun and Paige Cowett, contains music by Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, and Diane Wong, and was engineered by Alyssa Mox. Special thanks to Lisa Tobin and Azin Goreshi. That's it for the daily I'm natalie kitroweff. See you Monday.
- [47:22]
Parent 1 (likely the mother)
What does beauty have to do with winning a tennis Grand Slam? Or empowering communities? Or tracking jaguars through the wild heart of South America? Hi there. I'm Isabella Rossellini, and I'm back with season two of this Is Not a Beauty Podcast, where I uncover stories that get to the heart of how beauty is woven through every facet of our lives. Listen to this Is Not a Beauty Podcast from l' Oreal Group on your favorite podcast platform.