Podcast Summary: The Daily – Sunday Special: The Books We Read in School
Aired: September 7, 2025
Host: Gilbert Cruz
Guests: Sadie Stein, Louis Sachar (author of Holes and Wayside School series)

Overview

In this episode of The Daily’s Sunday Special, host Gilbert Cruz, book review editor at The New York Times, is joined by NYT Book Review colleague Sadie Stein and beloved children’s author Louis Sachar. As school resumes across the country, the trio delves into the books children are assigned in school, personal reading journeys, and what makes a book resonate with young readers. They discuss the enduring canon of classic school texts, the emotional charge certain books still hold, and offer recommendations geared toward sparking a love of reading. The episode closes with a playful game that tests how well the guests remember their school reading lists, as described by humorous and critical Amazon reviews.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Histories with Reading

• Early Experiences:
  • Louis Sachar shares he read “a lot as a child” but the pivotal moment was his fourth-grade teacher reading Charlotte’s Web aloud:

    “The bad part was I cried in class at the end. … I remember nothing else about fourth grade except our teacher reading that book.” (03:16)

  • Sadie Stein recalls becoming a near-obsessive reader ages 8–11 and highlights the Betsy-Tacy books as transformative.
  • Gilbert Cruz describes how movies spurred his reading, seeking out the novels that inspired them, immersing himself in authors like Stephen King and Michael Crichton.

2. What Hooks Young Readers?

• Sachar credits not talking down to kids:

  “I think it has to hook me first. … I don’t talk down to the kids, and I respect the reader’s intelligence and humanity. Even if it’s a nine-year-old…” (08:45)

• Stein and Cruz reflect on how charismatic teachers, engaging aloud readings, and connecting with a story’s humor, menace, or emotional depth make a difference.

3. The School Classics List: What Hasn’t Changed

• A 2025 study shows six of the ten most-assigned books in schools remain the same as in 1989:

  • Romeo and Juliet, Macbeth, Hamlet (Shakespeare)
  • The Great Gatsby (Fitzgerald)
  • The Crucible (Miller)
  • Of Mice and Men (Steinbeck)
  • To Kill a Mockingbird (Lee)
  • Night (Wiesel)
  • Fahrenheit 451 (Bradbury)
  • Frankenstein (Shelley)

  Cruz: “Three of them being Shakespeare plays...that are most commonly taught as the backbone of an English literature education…” (11:42)

• Shakespeare’s Challenges:

  • Sachar admits:

    “I found Shakespeare very difficult to read. … The best way I found was to get records and listen as I read.” (12:09)

  • Stein counters with a positive, performative classroom experience:

    “We acted them out…people got very into it…at the end we would get to watch the movie adaptation.” (12:36)

  • All agree: reading or watching Shakespeare performed helps overcome the language barrier.

4. Connecting or Disconnecting with Assigned Books

• Steinbeck’s Emotional Impact:
  • Stein: “I found [Of Mice and Men] almost traumatic…I have not really read Steinbeck since…” (15:47)
  • Sachar values the author-reader connection:

    “You’re getting inside this author’s mind…if you’re just focusing on the plot...that bothers me about Shakespeare…you lose that [connection].” (14:37)

• Cliff’s Notes v. Real Engagement:
  • Stein: “By today’s standards [Cliffs Notes] actually took quite a bit of time and effort…”
• Lovability and Difficulty:
  • Standout loves: Catcher in the Rye, The Great Gatsby.
  • Struggles: The Sound and the Fury (Faulkner), As I Lay Dying, some Hemingway.

5. The Impact of Being Forced to Read Certain Books

• Both value encountering challenging works in school, even those they didn’t love:
  Stein: “I’m so glad to have...read certain books in school...I just wouldn’t have had the discipline to take up Faulkner or Joyce as an adult.” (29:45)

6. Audiobooks & Modernizing Access

• Stein: “More audiobooks should be worked into the school curriculum for people who find that easier. For certain books, it might be the way to go.” (26:19)
• Sachar: “Whether I listen to it or read it, it’s the same. ... But I can never listen to the audio readings of my books.” (27:57)

7. Encouraging Reading for Pleasure Amid Declining Rates

• Only 16% of Americans now read for pleasure annually (books, magazines, etc.).
• Both guests see value in “gateway” books and the importance of reading aloud or modeling a reading habit at home.
• No stigma for “commercial” or “series” books—engagement is what matters.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On reading aloud's impact:

  “I remember nothing else about fourth grade except our teacher reading that book.” – Louis Sachar, on Charlotte’s Web (03:52)

• On series and addiction to reading:

  “I think kids love a series...It creates a sense of community and anticipation. Kids who think they don’t like to read, I think series are sometimes a good device.” – Sadie Stein (31:42)

• On the enduring value (and trauma) of classics:

  “I found [Of Mice and Men] almost traumatic…that one in particular was easy to read, and everyone in the class kind of got involved with.” – Sadie Stein (15:47)

• On audiobooks:

  “More audiobooks should be worked into the school curriculum for people who find that easier.” – Sadie Stein (26:19)

• On the beauty of Gatsby:

  “I had read so many books up to that point, but I don’t know that I’d read a book that was just beautiful.” – Gilbert Cruz (22:20)

Recommendations for Young Readers (36:14–41:53)

• Louis Sachar:
  • Lois Lowry – The Giver
  • Katherine Paterson – Bridge to Terabithia, The Great Gilly Hopkins
• Sadie Stein:
  • Alvin Schwartz – Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark
  • Where the Red Fern Grows, The Witch of Blackbird Pond, Sounder, Number the Stars, From the Mixed-up Files…, Jennifer, Hecate, Macbeth, William McKinley, and Me, Elizabeth.
• Gilbert Cruz:
  • Norton Juster – The Phantom Tollbooth
  • Katherine Arden – Small Spaces series (for older/more adventurous kids)
  • Beverly Cleary – Ramona books (esp. Ramona the Pest) for those starting school
  • Harry Allard – Miss Nelson is Missing

The Game: Guess the Classic (43:19–49:33)

A round of “Name that Book” using snarky Amazon reviews of classics:

• Examples included The Great Gatsby, Huckleberry Finn, The Scarlet Letter, Of Mice and Men, Great Expectations, and Catcher in the Rye.
• The guests humorously wrestled with vague or biting one-star reviews to identify the books.
• Sadie Stein ultimately won, earning the “Gilby” trophy.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:06: Introduction, overview of episode theme.
• 03:08–06:11: Guests share formative childhood reading experiences.
• 11:42–17:16: Discussion of school reading lists and enduring classics.
• 19:11–23:22: Books they loved in school; emotional resonance of texts.
• 23:22–26:19: Books that were struggles; Faulkner and the challenge of “difficult” literature.
• 26:19–29:45: The role and importance of audiobooks.
• 32:35–34:37: Series and “gateway” books.
• 34:12–36:07: Decline of pleasure reading and strategies to reclaim it.
• 36:14–41:53: Recommendations for young readers and “back to school” favorites.
• 43:19–49:33: Amazon review guessing game with classic books.

Tone & Style

Warm, nerdy, and humorous, with all three panelists showing a deep and personal affection for books, both old and new. The conversation is knowledgeable but accessible, mixing practical advice for parents/educators with nostalgia and wit. The rapport among guests makes for an engaging episode that celebrates the enduring, sometimes complicated relationship readers have with the books they first encounter in school.

For anyone who’s ever loved, loathed, or wondered about the canon of school reading, this episode is a lively, insightful, and highly relatable literary roundtable.