Podcast Summary: The Daily – Sunday Special: The Year in Gaming

Date: November 2, 2025
Host: Gilbert Cruz (B), with guests Zachary Small (C) and Jason Bailey (D)

Overview

This episode of The Daily dives into the state of the video game industry in 2025, reflecting on the evolution of gaming as an art form, the most impactful releases of the year, and the shifting landscape for players, developers, and the industry at large. Host Gilbert Cruz is joined by Times culture reporter Zachary Small and culture editor Jason Bailey for an engaging conversation celebrating the artistry, business, and personal impact of video games. The episode features their personal histories with games, big industry news (layoffs, the rise of indie games, the Switch 2), passionate reviews of top titles, and concludes with a fun, game-themed trivia segment.

Personal Histories and Gaming Culture

[00:51 – 08:41]

Key Discussion Points:

• Gaming's Place in Art and Life

  • Gilbert highlights video games as a major cultural force that’s often underappreciated as art.
  • Zach recalls his first gaming experience—playing Super Mario World during childhood illness—defining video games as his first significant art form.
  • Jason shares his introduction to the original NES at Christmas, progressing through Mario, Zelda, to modern indie titles due to his "graying parent" lifestyle.

• Diverse Gaming Preferences

  • Genres discussed: First-person shooters, “artsy” indie games, RPGs, platformers, and classics (Mario, Just Dance, Animal Crossing).
  • Zach: “I love a story. I love something that’s going to try and make me cry or that’s very funny or it’s taking a risk.” [07:48]
  • Jason: “Your fast twitch muscles literally degrade. It’s like gymnastics.” [06:39]

• Philosophical Take:

  • Video games teach players about “the routine” and the importance of learning to master—or break—cycles, paralleling real life.
  • Zach: “Games teach you either how to master a routine or how to break the routine. And those are two very important life skills.” [09:15]

Memorable Quotes:

• “I sold [my console] to a friend’s brother, and I did not get into video games again until the year 2020, which was the year in which I bought a Switch and an Xbox and a PlayStation—because we were all locked down and I needed to entertain both myself and my child.” – Gilbert [04:08]
• “You care for them. The health bar is hearts.” – Zach, on why games foster empathy for characters [10:15]

State of the Video Game Industry in 2025

[10:59 – 15:15]

Key Discussion Points:

• Market Maturity & Turbulence

  • Decades of industry growth have plateaued; COVID-19 temporarily boosted both players and company projections, leading to overinvestment.
  • Companies—with long development cycles—now face costly miscalculations, game cancellations, industry layoffs.
  • Spider-Man 2 example: $300M to make, best seller—even so, studio layoffs followed.

• AAA, Indie, and “AA” Games

  • Jason likens AAA games to Hollywood blockbusters; indie games are hard to break through due to massive volume, but when they do, they’re major success stories.
  • “Indie games” like Hades 2 and Silksong now boast huge fanbases rivaling mainstream franchises.
  • “I’m like: we kind of have to stop calling them indie games. … These games are selling millions of copies.” – Zach [14:20]

Console Wars: The Switch 2 and Big Franchises

[15:15 – 19:17]

Key Discussion Points:

• Switch 2 Launch

  • The launch of Nintendo’s new console was a huge story: “Bigger screen, better graphics, more expensive.” [15:38]
  • Nintendo did not debut with flagship franchises Mario or Zelda, opting for Mario Kart World and Donkey Kong Bonanza instead.
  • Sales remain robust, with Nintendo employing a hybrid Apple/Disney strategy, cross-promoting games, merchandise, and movies.

• Pokémon Legends Z to A

  • Major disappointment: fans/lament graphics, ambition; company invests less in games compared to lucrative trading cards.
  • “It feels like you’re playing a game from 2001 ... the graphics are just really low bar.” – Zach [18:01]
  • Nonetheless, it’s among the year’s best sellers. Catch-22: “If people are buying it, why change up what works?” – Jason [19:17]

The Best Games of 2025 & Industry Trends

[21:29 – 44:44]

Rundown of Leading Contenders (Game Awards/“Game of the Year”):

1. Hollow Knight: Silksong [21:57 – 28:10]

• Long-awaited sequel, released after years of memes around its delay.
• “It’s a bug’s life, but with a lot of death.” – Zach [21:57]
• Exquisitely designed, extremely difficult; the difficulty and game’s respect (or lack) for player time are debated.
  • “At some point the death has to stop.” – Zach [25:47]
  • “There came a certain point, even though this game is beautifully designed, ... where I got tired of sort of throwing my controller down and cursing inappropriately in front of my child. And I was like, I’m done.” – Gilbert [26:58]
• Patches were issued to adjust difficulty after fan complaints.

2. Hades 2 [28:10 – 31:41]

• Rogue-like, Greek myth-themed, narrative-rich, focuses on repeated runs, improvement, and death as core mechanics.
• Standout voice acting, “droll, but sexy” performances [30:45].
• Zach: “It’s kind of a math game, right? You’re ... trying to maximize your impact ... It’s about growth, I think, ultimately.” [29:07]
• Influence on other narrative games post-pandemic.

3. Clair Obscure: Expedition 33 [31:41 – 36:38]

• French-inspired RPG, story of an island slowly losing its citizens to an existential threat.
• Explorations of mourning, melancholy, and narrative depth: “Is it a game about death or is it a game about mourning?” – Zach [33:02]
• Small development team, motion captured in a tiny Paris black box theater.
• “Once you get to the main act, it’s instantly recognizable that this is an amazing game.” – Jason [34:11]
• Noted as accessible to non-gamers (“Anyone could pick it up, but it’s addicting.” – Zach [36:03]).

4. Split Fiction [38:03 – 39:02]

• Co-op adventure where two writers become trapped in a world created by a tech company’s “immersive story” device; alternates between sci-fi/fantasy.
• Best played with two people—highlighted as a memorable experience for adults and children alike.

5. Blueprints [39:02 – 40:06]

• Puzzle game set in a shifting house; notable for requiring literal note-taking and problem solving.

6. Death Stranding 2 [40:06 – 41:20]

• From Hideo Kojima, acclaimed auteur; explores post-apocalyptic delivery missions.
• Themes: digital connectivity, loneliness, parenthood, and “reconnecting the world.”

7. Donkey Kong Bonanza [41:20 – 42:27]

• Nintendo Switch 2 exclusive, designed for maximal destructive joy.
• Criticized as less beautifully designed than previous Mario games but a hit with kids.

Additional Recommendations

[42:41 – 44:44]

• Jason: Is This Seat Taken? – “Sudoku with people,” a seat-arranging puzzle.
• Zach: Once Upon a Katamari – “The most video gamey game in the world,” defined by building sticky balls of objects with joyful progression.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I always recommend [Katamari Damacy]: You’re the prince of the king of all cosmos who has destroyed the universe in a drunken bender ... but you have a sticky ball.” – Zach [43:45]
• “Not all games are for all people. And if you’re listening to this and aren’t a gamer, do not pick up Silksong. You will be scarred for life!” – Jason [27:13]
• “These games teach you either how to master a routine or how to break the routine … Games are about life.” – Zach [09:15]
• “Are you scared of death?” – Zach, to Gilbert (lightheartedly, about game themes) [31:18]
• “Do you think the industry will take lessons from the critical success of this game?” – Gilbert, discussing Clair Obscure’s influence as a small-team success [36:38]

Industry Trends and Reflections

[14:20 – 19:17; 36:38 – 37:05]

• Indie Game Renaissance: 2025 characterized by “revenge of the indie game,” with critical and commercial success for small teams.
• Game Development Headwinds: Layoffs, canceled projects, and “middle-tier” games struggling for attention.
• Nintendo’s Strategy: Focus on cross-media synergy, not just game sales.

Game Segment: “The New Zork Times”

[46:17 – End; segment starts at ~46:17]

The hosts and guests play a co-op trivia RPG, featuring word games (e.g., “rage quit,” “speed run”), sound-guessing death noises from famous games (Mario, Hades 2, Donkey Kong), console startup sound identification, and gaming pop culture questions (e.g., “Who is the Grammy-winning ‘Say So’ singer in Fortnite?* – Doja Cat).

Memorable banter:

• “My strategy is just don’t die in video games. So I haven’t experienced this [death sound].” – Jason [51:37]
• “S for Switch 2, of course!” – Jason [55:41]
• Prizes are “Gilbys”—cheap plastic trophies with Gilbert’s face [56:20].

Conclusion

This episode paints a vivid picture of gaming in 2025—its joys, challenges, and evolution into mainstream culture and art. The conversation ranges from personal bonds and family co-op playing, to poignant industry observations, to in-depth reviews of the year’s best (and most debated) titles. If you’re curious about why games resonate so deeply and how the industry’s shifting, this episode is an essential listen.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Personal Gaming Histories: [00:51 – 08:41]
• Industry State & Trends: [10:59 – 15:15]
• Nintendo & Switch 2: [15:15 – 19:17]
• Best Games of 2025: [21:29 – 44:44]
• Hidden Gem Recommendations: [42:41 – 44:44]
• “The New Zork Times” Game: [46:17 – End]

For more details on games and industry trends, visit nytimes.com/games