The Assassination of Charlie Kirk

Summary

The Daily: "The Assassination of Charlie Kirk"

Date: September 11, 2025
Host: Michael Barbaro
Guest: Robert Draper (NYT reporter)

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Overview

This powerful episode of The Daily grapples with breaking news: the on-stage assassination of Charlie Kirk, a leading figure in conservative activism and youth organizing, on a Utah college campus. Host Michael Barbaro and NYT reporter Robert Draper, who has covered Kirk closely, dive into the trajectory of Kirk’s influence—from his improbable rise to national stardom and his outsized sway in Republican politics, to the immediate aftermath and broader implications of his shocking death for the conservative movement and American political life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Assassination: What Happened ([00:26]–[03:32])

• Event Context: Kirk was speaking at Utah Valley University as part of his "American Comeback Tour," a series of college campus appearances drawing large audiences.
• The Shooting: During a spirited Q&A, a gunshot rings out; Kirk is struck in the neck and quickly succumbs to the wound, as captured on multiple cell phone videos.
• National Reaction: The news prompts immediate, emotional responses from prominent conservative media personalities, including Megyn Kelly and Glenn Beck, as well as a moment of silence on Fox News.

"There's no way he survived that. The only good thing is it had to have happened quickly." — Glenn Beck (reported by Robert Draper, [03:03])

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2. Charlie Kirk's Rise to Power ([04:24]–[13:41])

Early Life and Political Turning Point ([07:07]–[10:02])

• Background: Raised in a wealthy conservative suburb near Chicago, Kirk was a political outlier among his more liberal peers during the Obama years.
• Influences: Inspired by Rush Limbaugh’s brash style and the Tea Party movement, Kirk forgoes a traditional college path to launch into political activism with mentorship from Bill Montgomery.
• Founding Turning Point USA: Kirk co-founds the organization to fill a void on campuses, aiming to make conservatism appealing to Gen Z.

"He wasn't just a basketball player on his high school team, but he loved Rush Limbaugh... and I think he not only became enraptured by Limbaugh's arguments but by the sort of cult of celebrity that Limbaugh had established." — Robert Draper ([08:34])

The Trump Connection ([10:49]–[13:41])

• Link to Trump: Initially a Ted Cruz supporter, Kirk shifts allegiance to Trump as the candidate’s momentum grows. He quickly gains access to the Trump inner circle, helping manage Donald Trump Jr.'s social media and schedule.
• Turning Point’s Growth: With Trump’s backing, Turning Point USA events become political rock concerts—complete with smoke, lights, and massive crowds.

"Trump loved being in front of young people. So it's at that point that these Turning Point USA events really became almost over the top with theatrics." — Robert Draper ([15:07])

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3. The Message & Tactics: Making Conservatism "Cool" ([15:29]–[19:54])

• The Pitch: Kirk shapes his message for college students, aligning his brand of conservatism with rebellion against campus liberalism and political correctness.
• Anti-Woke Culture: Kirk seizes on "cancel culture" and political correctness, positioning conservatism as the new counterculture on campus.
• Strategy: Emphasizes free speech and claims of ideological suppression on college campuses, portraying students as rebels if they align with conservative causes.

"If you want to be a rebel on a college campus, fight for freedom, fight for free speech." — Charlie Kirk ([16:27])

• Expansion: Turning Point USA flourishes under Kirk, creating hundreds of campus chapters and building a sophisticated media machine and political network.

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4. The Trump Era and Kirk’s Political Ascendancy ([22:38]–[28:43])

• Post-2020: Kirk remains steadfastly loyal to Trump after the 2020 loss, becoming a leading voice of election denialism.
• Media Influence: Kirk’s podcast audience soars as he pushes election fraud narratives and increasingly inflammatory rhetoric—a combination of his inner “ardent Christian” beliefs and Limbaugh-esque provocations.
• Organizational Savvy: Kirk unites media firebrand status with get-out-the-vote operations, raising millions and targeting swing states, earning Trump’s private praise.

"You are one of the three or four people who are most responsible for me winning this election." — Donald Trump (as quoted by Robert Draper, [28:11])

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5. From Organizer to Enforcer in the Trump White House ([28:18]–[31:00])

• New Influence: Kirk wields immense power in Trump’s second term, acting as a political enforcer: pressuring congressional Republicans, threatening primaries against non-compliant lawmakers, and coordinating with Trump loyalists.
• Key Example: Kirk leads a campaign to pressure Senator Joni Ernst into confirming Trump’s Secretary of Defense nominee, exemplifying his expanded role.

"This was not just an effort limited to changing the behavior of Senator Ernst, but in fact, to change the behavior of the entire Republican Party." — Robert Draper ([29:10])

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6. Implications of Kirk’s Assassination ([31:00]–[35:40])

• Leadership Void: Kirk’s unique blend of charisma, organizational know-how, and media savvy leaves a hole the conservative movement may struggle to fill.

"I really don't know what Turning Point USA does without Charlie Kirk." — Robert Draper ([32:09])

• Will Intensify Partisan Division: Draper and Barbaro agree Kirk’s killing will be viewed as an act of political violence targeting Trumpism, likely escalating political passions rather than calming them—regardless of the assassin’s motive.

"No, it will without question be viewed as an act of political violence against not just a leading voice of Trumpism, but Trumpism itself." — Robert Draper ([33:19])

• Personal Reflections: Draper speaks movingly about his personal interactions with Kirk, recalling dinner with security present and Kirk’s acceptance of the risks inherent to his high-profile role.
• Immediate Aftermath: Reports confirm the shooter is still at large.

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7. National Response and Trump’s Statement ([35:40]–[36:59])

• Trump’s Address: President Trump, from the Oval Office, eulogizes Kirk as a transformational leader and blames liberal rhetoric for a rise in political violence, vowing retribution.

"For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today, and it must stop right now." — Donald Trump ([36:32])

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Notable Quotes

• "Charlie Kirk was, in a sense, killed in the line of duty—or at least duty as he defined it." — Robert Draper ([05:04])
• "He possessed these oratorical gifts. He possessed a real organizational savvy, and he possessed this remarkable ability to woo and galvanize donors. People like that don't grow on trees." — Robert Draper ([31:45])
• "It almost goes without saying that Kirk’s murder... leaves a huge void." — Michael Barbaro ([31:01])

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Important Timestamps

• [00:26]–[03:32]: The shooting and conservative response
• [04:24]: Draper learns of Kirk's death
• [07:07]: Kirk’s political awakening and Turning Point USA’s founding
• [10:49]: Kirk’s Trump connection
• [13:41]: Event growth and Trump’s influence
• [15:29]: Turning Point USA’s college culture war tactics
• [22:38]: Kirk’s loyalty after 2020 and organizational growth
• [28:11]: Trump’s private praise and Kirk's instrumental role
• [29:10]: Political enforcement against GOP dissenters
• [31:00]: The irreplaceable void left by Kirk
• [33:19]: Discussion on the ramifications as political violence
• [35:46]: Trump’s televised tribute and blame on the left

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

The episode maintains a tone of shock and gravity, balancing reporting with reflection on Kirk’s complex legacy. Both host and guest refrain from inflammatory language, even as they acknowledge the likely increase in political division and the central role Kirk played in reshaping the Republican Party—particularly among young voters. For anyone seeking to understand both the facts of the assassination and the crosscurrents shaping American conservatism in this era, this episode offers deeply informed, sobering insight.

Transcript

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[Michael Barbaro]

At about noon on Wednesday, Charlie Kirk, the conservative organizer, activist and media mogul takes the stage for the latest stop on what he's been calling the American Comeback Tour. It's a series of talks that he's holding at colleges across the country. This stop was at Utah Valley University. It's about 30 minutes south of Salt Lake City.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's a lot of people, Utah.

[Michael Barbaro]

As the event gets underway, Kirk starts to work. The audience of about 3,000 people bring.

[Charlie Kirk]

The best legs that Utah has to offer.

[Michael Barbaro]

He starts tossing Trump themed hats into the crowd. Then he settles into a chair underneath a tent where he prepares to field questions in a debate format that Kirk likes to call prove me wrong. A few minutes into this, Kirk is asked the kind of question that he relishes by a liberal sounding person in the audience. So do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years?

[Charlie Kirk]

Too many.

[Michael Barbaro]

This person follows up, trying to establish just how rare it is for a trans person to carry out a mass shooting. Do you know how many mass shooters.

[Robert Draper]

There have been in America over the last 10 years?

[Michael Barbaro]

Kirk responds with a follow up question.

[Charlie Kirk]

Of his own counting or not counting? Gang violence.

[Donald Trump]

Great.

[Michael Barbaro]

When suddenly a single shot rings out. What happens next is captured by cell phone cameras from seemingly every angle. Kirk slumps over. Blood begins to pour out of his neck. He falls out of the chair. It is clear that he is gravely wounded. People in the crowd start to scream and then they start to run. Meanwhile, Kirk is rushed to a car, then taken to a nearby hospital where a short time later, he's declared dead.

[Capital One Commercial Bank Announcer]

There are news outlets reporting the worst right now.

[Robert Draper]

Glenn.

[Michael Barbaro]

The moment that the news becomes official, there is an outpouring of grief from the country's most prominent conservatives.

[Robert Draper]

They're reporting that Charlie has died, that he's dead at the age of 31.

[Michael Barbaro]

Megyn Kelly weeps on air. So does Glenn back.

[Robert Draper]

There's no way he survived that. The only good thing is it had to have happened quickly.

[Michael Barbaro]

And over at Fox News, the anchors observe a moment of silence for Kirk in the middle of their broadcast.

[Robert Draper]

Charlie, we love you. I don't really know where you go from here. I don't know where we go from here in a news program.

[Michael Barbaro]

And I don't Know where we go from here in America. From the New York Times. Hi, I'm Michael Balbaro. This is the Daily Today, the story of how Charlie Kirk built a conservative empire that brought millions of young Americans into the Republican Party and to the ballot box for Donald Trump. I speak to my colleague Robert Draper about Kirk's improbable rise to power, his stunning assassination, and his controversial Legacy. It's Thursday, September 11th. Robert, thank you for making time for us on a difficult evening.

[Robert Draper]

Sure thing.

[Michael Barbaro]

Michael, can you just describe how it is you learned that Charlie Kirk had died?

[Robert Draper]

Yes. I was about to go into a lengthy interview at about 3 o' clock when I saw a report, report that Kirk had been shot. I contacted Kirk's communications director, Andrew Colvitt, who confirmed to me that had been shot and shot in the neck, but that he didn't have any other details. Colvitt wasn't with him that day. So my phone had kind of blown up, and my editor had contacted me to let me know that Kirk had apparently died, but she would like confirmation and could I get it. So I reached out to Andrew Cole that again, and he did pick up and in an extremely emotional voice, confirmed that Charlie Kirk, who worked with for years and who was like a brother to him, had died of an assassin's bullet. And after sort of working through my astonishment, it occurred to me, Michael, that Charlie Kirk was, in a sense, killed in the line of duty, or at least duty as he defined it.

[Michael Barbaro]

Explain that.

[Robert Draper]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, he was on a campus. He was at Utah Valley University campus, speaking to young people, which happened to be the mission statement of the organization that he co founded, Turning Point usa. I think that after Trump himself, no one was more responsible for the Republicans winning over young voters to the extent that they did in 2024, than Kirk and his group. The thing about Kirk is that he became a media personality, a close advisor to the Trump family, to the President himself. But at bottom, he was still a youth organizer. And so there he was, it's well after Trump's last election, showing up, doing the thing that he was famous for.

[Michael Barbaro]

Well, tell us the story, Robert, of how it is that Kirk came to this work of essentially evangelizing for the Republican Party, for Donald Trump in particular, among young people, and how he became so successful at it. And here I just want to explain why we're turning to you for this conversation. You closely cover the conservative movement in the United States for the Times, and you spent weeks traveling with Kirk, best I can tell, speaking to everyone who knows him and interacts with him to try to piece together that very story for us. And so I wonder if you can tell it here how it is that Charlie Kirk became Charlie Kirk.

[Robert Draper]

Yes. I mean, we'll start with two facts. One is that he grew up in a wealthy Chicago suburb, Prospect Heights, a member of a conservative family, and so was a conservative kid himself. And we should mention that Kirk died at the age of 31. So we're talking about during his teenage years. He grew up during the Obama era, and all of his classmates were big fans of Obama's right. And Kirk could see why they were. He could see why Obama was cool, why Obama had appeal, and why, correspondingly, the Republican Party had its work cut out for him because they were seen as somewhat fossilized. You know, no one could describe Mitt Romney as cool and the fiscal conservatism arguments as being sort of cutting edge and appealing to younger folks. So this is what, you know, Kirk began to see, and he was a political nerd. He wasn't just that he was a basketball player on his high school team, but he loved Rush Limbaugh. And he would, during lunch hours, go sequester himself and listen to Limbaugh by himself. And I think he not only became enraptured by Limbaugh's arguments, but by the sort of cult of celebrity that Limbaugh had established as, you know, this outrageous voice who would lampoon the left at every turn. This, to Kirk, seemed cool if there was just some way to convince younger people of it.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right. Because, of course, Rush Limbaugh was owning the libs before owning the libs was even a thing.

[Robert Draper]

Absolutely, yeah. Going back to the 1980s. And so there was something very appealing about Limbaugh to Charlie Kirk. Kirk is graduating from high school, thinking of going to college, but not quite sure where to go and exactly what he wants to make of himself. He's bitten by the politics bug and he loves what Limbaugh does. And he already sees in his imagination some version of of himself as an heir to Limbaugh. But how do you monetize that? He had no clue. And in 2009 and 2010, and this is now we're putting this in time, the Tea Party was underway, having events all over Illinois, and Kirk starts showing up to him as this articulate young voice. And these older people in the audience, Tea Party activists, particularly this guy named Bill Montgomery, saw Charlie Kirk and thought, charlie, you can go places. He not only encouraged Kirk to continue to speak at these events, but to forego a College education. Essentially, he was saying, you know, you can do a lot more for the movement and frankly, for your own career as a public speaker than you can by being just another dude who goes and gets a college degree. So this began to gather locomotion. And it was along with Bill Montgomery that he established Turning Point usa. Not entirely sure what it would be.

[Charlie Kirk]

I just want to thank you for being here today. I'm a son of the American revolution and my sister's a doctor revolution.

[Robert Draper]

He only knew that this was something he loved, that he was getting attention for doing it, and that he was filling a void.

[Charlie Kirk]

Every single person that believes in fiscal responsibility, limited government, and not spending more money than you take in gets one person that did not vote last time vote. In this election, we win by a.

[Robert Draper]

Landslide that there weren't young people around going on college and for that matter, high school campuses trying to proselytize young people.

[Charlie Kirk]

That takes you going out in the public square and challenging the ideals, not being afraid of debate, like what we're doing going into the colleges, debating the professors, debating the students on the same ideals.

[Michael Barbaro]

And what time period are we talking about here?

[Robert Draper]

We're talking about 2014, 2015. But then, crucially, the Trump candidacy begins. And Kirk, like so many Republicans, was a little unsure about Trump was more inclined to support Ted Cruz. But by March or April of 2016, when, when Trump was making sport of the Republican field, Kirk began to realize, no, no, this is the guy who's got it. And Kirk endeavored to insinuate himself into that network. Kirk gets on the Trump family's radar through a succession of events that causes him to be introduced to Donald Trump Jr. The president's eldest son. And just a few minutes into it, Don Jr. Said, you know, look, I could use someone like you. And in a matter of minutes, Charlie Kirk was the assistant to the oldest son of candidate Trump, taking over Don junior's social media account as well as his schedule so exponentially, he became suddenly central to the activities of what would prove to be the winning Republican campaign.

[Michael Barbaro]

And once Kirk has the Trump families backing, and of course, at this point, Trump is now President Trump, what happens to Kirk's little project of trying to win over the young people of America and bring them to the Republican side? As I recall, Trump's victory sets off alarm in a lot of quarters of American University.

[Robert Draper]

Sure. I mean, in the years of 2016, 2017, I think even early 2018, Turning Point USA was becoming the dominant organization amongst conservative youth groups. But to be honest, that's not saying much. Young Americans for Freedom. Young Americans for Liberty. These kinds of groups were sort of these William F. Buckley bow tied things and, and they were kind of easy to knock off. Burke's group would open these chapters and, and you know, it's a fairly slipshod effect. I mean, there'd be, you know, a few people on this campus, a few on another, and it's kind of hard to tell what they were doing and were they really like registering people to vote where they. They certainly didn't seem to be moving the needle turnout wise. That change only began to occur when Kirk came to know the President himself. December of 2017, Don Jr. Invited Kirk to Mar A Lago. Trump saw Kirk had been hearing about Kirk had been retweeting Kirk's denunciations of the left, motioned him to come over and through that conversation came to charm Trump as he had so many other older conservatives.

[Donald Trump]

I'm excited to be here today with thousands of proud young American patriots. You're great people.

[Robert Draper]

You're great people.

[Donald Trump]

You're the future. You're the future.

[Robert Draper]

And in turn, thank you to everyone.

[Donald Trump]

At Turning Point USA's Teens Student Action Summit. What a group.

[Robert Draper]

That meant that Trump was a reliable keynote speaker at Turning Point USA events.

[Donald Trump]

I want to thank my great friend and he's a young friend. He's a pretty young guy. Charlie Kirk. I said, how old are you, Charlie? He's a young one. He gave me a number. I won't say, but he's, he's younger than he even looks.

[Robert Draper]

Which really marks this signal moment after which turning point USA's events became the events amongst not just young conservatives, but really all conservatives.

[Donald Trump]

But I'm thrilled to be here tonight with thousands of proud, patriotic young Americans at Turning Point USA Student Action Summit. Incredible.

[Robert Draper]

The job, Charlie stuff, he's the marquee guy. And Trump loved being in front of young people. So it's at that point that these Turning Point USA events really became almost over the top with theatrics.

[Michael Barbaro]

Like what.

[Robert Draper]

Strobes and smoke and crazy lights everywhere and deafening soundtracks and montages of Trump lacrosse. Like a prize fighter. They really became like rock concerts in a way that would make, say, CPAC look very stated. Turning Point usa. How you doing? Are you good?

[Michael Barbaro]

And what's Kirk's message at these events and how is he seeking to hit a chord with this specific demographic, especially college students?

[Robert Draper]

Well, I'd say on the one hand that Kirk's message was mostly indistinguishable from.

[Charlie Kirk]

That of Trump GDP Growth, lowest ever black unemployment, lowest ever. Latino unemployment, lowest ever women unemployment. And yet the left is doing everything they can to remove this president. Why? Because they don't just hate him, they hate you. He's just in the way.

[Robert Draper]

But again, in his ongoing quest to find a way to make conservatism cool for younger people, what Kirk seized upon was the growing resistance on the left and the ways in which that resistance was seeming, at least to some people, excessive.

[Charlie Kirk]

And look, young people on college campuses, you know, they think they're fighting the establishment. Hold on a second. Your professors are liberal. Your parents are probably liberal, Your friends are liberal. The music you listen to is liberal. Hollywood is liberal. All the movies you watch are liberal. Who are you rebelling against? Exactly? Right? I mean, if you want to be a rebel on a college campus, fight for freedom, fight for free speech, certainly.

[Robert Draper]

Trump, you'll recall, going all the way back to his beginning of his candidacy in 2015, would talk about political correctness and the idea that you can't speak what's on your mind and the idea that you might get canceled. The resistance, in the ways in which it could be lampooned as being just completely beyond the pale was something that Kirk was very adroit at doing really quick.

[Charlie Kirk]

Evergreen State College in Oregon, some of the students petitioned their professors to have their feelings factored into their grades. At the end of semester at Clemson University, they had a lecture by one of the diversity officers that requiring students to be on time could be cultural, culturally offensive, because certain cultures don't look at time the same way as others. You look at some of these outrageous moments that political correctness is used to.

[Robert Draper]

Honestly stifle speech and something that Trump himself loved doing. And so, you know, in Trump's being outrageous, he's also basically saying, look, for me, telling it like it is is a safe space where the left will do everything in its power to squelch your desire to speak your mind, say whatever you know you want to say without fear of being censored for a minute here.

[Charlie Kirk]

One of the other things that you've done so successfully during your and presidency is crushed political correctness. And the college network that we represent, I represent an organization on 1200 college and high school campuses, is it's harder than ever to espouse support of your presidency and the ideas that you're fighting for. So thank you for what you're doing to help give us the courage of our convictions to fight against political correctness.

[Robert Draper]

But in that sense, Kirk was sort of an early avatar of the anti wokeness that became so popular amongst conservatives later.

[Donald Trump]

It's a great question. I think the number are actually much different than people think. I think we have a lot of support.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right. And if there was a place that at times could be accurately described as woke, it was probably going to be certain college campuses.

[Robert Draper]

During this period, certain college campuses where professors were denouncing Trump, but also denouncing particular conservative schools of thought were saying that certain people should not be allowed to speak on that campus. And these kinds of things, I think, rubbed some students, not all, but certainly some the wrong way, seem discordant with the notion of coming to campus and being able to associate with whomever you want and say whatever you want. Trump, and particularly Kirk, began to play to those sentiments.

[Michael Barbaro]

The pitch becomes be a conservative because that will allow you to speak your mind, to truly be free and to buck this oppressive system of liberalism all around you on college campuses. And it seems worth saying that the left at one point on college campuses was the counterculture. But around this time, it's pretty clear that it's just the culture in many of these campuses. And it feels like what's innovative about Kirk's pitches is that at this moment, conservatism can become the counterculture.

[Robert Draper]

Yes, because Kirk's argument is that it is the left that is suppressing dissent. They were, as you say, really the owners of the culture and thus the oppressors of any kind of countercultural notion. So it's during this period that Turning Point USA experiences tremendous growth with hundreds of chapters across US Campuses. And Kirk has begun to build a viable, very well funded network that includes a strong media presence with his own podcast and a website that's turning out news stories. But the real test of what to do with all this, where this power can have its real effect, is actually after President Trump loses in 2020 and seeks to come back to political office. And Charlie Kirk, who remains by Trump's side after many Republicans abandoned him after January 6, plays an instrumental role in that. And his own influence really skyrockets during that period.

[Michael Barbaro]

We'll be right back.

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[Michael Barbaro]

Robert Once President Trump loses in 2020 and ends up in the political wilderness, at a time when I think many of us did not conceive of a path back to the presidency, Kirk is, by your account, ascendant. So what happens in this partnership?

[Robert Draper]

Well, for one thing, Kirk never left Trump.

[Charlie Kirk]

What is going on with all the ballot fraud, the voter fraud, voter registration fraud, the irregularities?

[Robert Draper]

It's worth recalling that Kirk was really at the forefront of 2020 election denialism.

[Charlie Kirk]

I have a new term I want to introduce into the Zeitgeist. It's called ballot laundering.

[Robert Draper]

Kirk was going to campuses and speaking at other events saying that the election had been stolen from Trump in Pennsylvania.

[Charlie Kirk]

There was a 1,776% increase in voter registration for 90 plus year olds in Pennsylvania.

[Robert Draper]

And that was his story, and he was sticking to it just as Trump was.

[Charlie Kirk]

So if I were the Democrats, we have to kind of put our hat on right now and say, what would I do if I were them to cheat?

[Robert Draper]

But Kirk is doing this on his podcast to an increasingly large audience and sounding very much like the Rush Limbaugh that he always saw himself as being. And I have to say, when you think about perk, we haven't established this yet, but really is an ardent Christian. But his inner Christian, often, at least it seemed to me, was in conflict with his inner Limbaugh. Interacting with trans people like they're normal people.

[Michael Barbaro]

They just want to exist. They don't.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no. Trans people are not normal people. That's not correct.

[Capital One Commercial Bank Announcer]

I think that's so disrespectful.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it's not disrespectful.

[Robert Draper]

And the way that Kirk would harmonize those two seemingly conflicting forces would be to posit the left as this godless force within American politics to demonize the left, in effect.

[Michael Barbaro]

And so I know you're, you're obviously very anti trans.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm pro reality. Let's elevate our discussion above personal insults. Let's try to. You see, the left can't debate, so they just call names. The left can't have a dialogue, so they just call names.

[Robert Draper]

And so Kirk, through just the sheer volume of his condemnations of the left, began to take on added prominence in his own right, but particularly as this unflagging defender of the former president in exile.

[Michael Barbaro]

My sense, Robert, is that at this point, Kirk has something pretty unique in the American political system. He is a celebrity political warrior saying outrageous things. I mean, I can remember a tirade he went on against Martin Luther King, of all people. He called him a bad guy. He said that the Civil Rights act of 1964 was a mistake. He is saying some truly, in many people's minds, contemptible things. And yet that media empire sits astride a get out the vote political operation that itself is on a scale that's pretty much unrivaled. And so suddenly you have in this still very young person, somebody who has built a media and political mobilization operation all housed in one place, Turning Point usa, that is sitting next to the President of the United States with his blessing and support. And so that's just a tremendous amount of power and influence. And suddenly it's gonna face this huge test in 2024.

[Robert Draper]

Yes. And we should establish too, that those two pieces of his apparatus, the sort of outrageousness of what he's saying and his political organization, are by no means in conflict, but instead are both test to Kirk's savvy when it came to building influence in the attention economy. So, I mean, as Kirk's celebrity grew, as his power as a conservative influencer began to augment itself, he was also applying it to the desire of getting Trump elected by establishing a true get up the vote operation in swing states. And he convinced his donors to donate really millions and millions of dollars to this end. It was fairly audacious of him. Again, Kirk had, by this point, had the total faith of President Trump and of Trump's family and of Trump's most loyal donor base. And if Charlie Kirk said, this is what we need to do to win, these people fell in lockstep with him. And so he really began in 2024 in a way that he had not earlier to chase ballots and find unlikely voters and turn them out in key states like Wisconsin and Arizona. And one testament to Kirk's efforts came from Trump himself, who said privately to Kirk that you are one of the three or four people who are most responsible for me winning this election.

[Michael Barbaro]

Wow, That's a stunning statement.

[Robert Draper]

Yeah. Kirk actually asked me not to use that statement in the story, but I think it's okay to say it now.

[Michael Barbaro]

And once Trump wins that second term, what we all began to notice, and this was really when Kirk came on my radar, is that he is suddenly operating with the authority of someone who's basically in the West Wing as an enforcer of what Trumpism is means in this second presidency.

[Robert Draper]

You're absolutely right. He became the quintessential Trump operator. He now had won the complete trust of President Trump and intended to use that. And Kirk was often in the room when senior staff suggestions were bandied about during the transition, but also to look at the political landscape and particularly focus on Republicans, with the intent of making the party completely quiescent to whatever this new president wanted. And that meant at times, focusing on senators who had been less than enthusiastic in their support of Trump, such as the Iowa Senator Joni Ernst, and basically threatening to primary them if they didn't confirm Trump's nominees and weren't completely brought to heel. Joni Ernst, for her part, was hesitant to confirm these Secretary of Defense nominee Pete Hegseth. Right. In part on the grounds that Hegseth had, according to allegations, been abusive to women, and Ernst herself was a sexual assault survivor. But after the very public campaign to pressure her, led by Kirk, she buckled and she confirmed Hegseth. And what Kirk told me in real time, Michael, was that this was not just an effort limited to changing the behavior of Senator Ernst, but in fact, to change the behavior of the entire Republican Party and make them understand, you know, this president has been elected by an unassailable majority, and his agenda is what you guys are going to vote for. And if you don't vote for it, you're going to suffer.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right. And it clearly worked, because congressional acquiescence is the story of Congress's relationship with President Trump. And so this is the apex of Charlie Kirk's power at this point. He's not just winning over young conservatives. He is, in a sense, calling the shots of who gets to stay in the United States Congress. And he's helping make sure that a wide range of policies do not face any meaningful opposition from lawmakers.

[Robert Draper]

That's right.

[Michael Barbaro]

I think for all the reasons you're describing here, it almost goes without saying that Kirk's murder on Wednesday leaves a huge void. I mean, the party has arguably lost its most potent connection to young voters and the greatest practitioner of attracting them to the party coming out and voting. And I wonder who fills that void and if it's even fillable.

[Robert Draper]

I think it's no understatement, Michael, to say that there's no person who can replace Kirk. Whatever one thinks of Kirk's views, it's pretty unchallengeable that he was singularly gifted at the art of speaking with fluency and a total conviction about the virtues of conservatism as practiced by Donald Trump. He possessed these oratorical gifts. He possessed a real organizational savvy, and he possessed this remarkable ability to woo and galvanize donors. People like that don't grow on trees. I really don't know what Turning Point USA does without Charlie Kirk.

[Michael Barbaro]

Because of Kirk's centrality to the Trump world and really to the future of magaism, it seems hard to imagine that this is not gonna be treated as an act of political violence. And the latest in a string of them over the past few years directed at leaders of both political parties. There's the effort to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer. There's the effort to kidnap Nancy Pelosi. There was the attempted assassination of Donald Trump. The list goes on and on. And each time people come to the conclusion that their party is being targeted because of who Kirk is, it seems hard to imagine that this is not going to be seen as an attack. Correct me if I'm wrong. On Trump. On Trumpism. Now, we have to acknowledge at this hour, 8:15pm on Wednesday, we don't know anything about the motivation of who did this. We don't even have a suspect in custody. That could change. But right now we don't. But knowing what you know about this movement, is this going to be seen as a kind of proxy attack against the president?

[Robert Draper]

I wish I could disagree with you, Michael. I really do. No, it will without question be viewed as an act of political violence against not just a leading voice of Trumpism, but Trumpism itself. The reaction will be very much of a piece with the reaction following the attempted assassination of candidate Trump in 2024. Already you see this language cropping up on social media. You're seeing the third person plural. They. They did this to Charlie Kirk.

[Michael Barbaro]

Right.

[Robert Draper]

Which is what we saw so often, you know, after the Butler, Pennsylvania, assassination attempt on Trump. So, yeah, I find it very difficult to imagine that this will in any way quell the sort of political passions and division that often arises from these acts of violence? No, I think it's going to intensify them.

[Michael Barbaro]

How are you processing all of this yourself as someone who has spent so much time with Charlie Kirk, not just the movement, but the man?

[Robert Draper]

Yeah, I've spent a lot of time with Kirk. We remained in frequent touch. We had dinner in Washington a month or two ago. I noticed that he had security with him, and he told me that he had been receiving death threats, but he seemed to just act like that was. That came with the territory. I found Kurt to be a very remarkable young man. And for me, you know, as a reporter, someone who really was useful in shedding insights on Trump, on Trumpism, on the future of the Republican Party. And I, you know, came to know his wife, Erica, and I really grieve for her at this moment. I mean, it's a. His two young children. It's a terrible thing that's happened. And Kirk and I actually were texting yesterday. There's a magazine project that I'm undertaking, and I wanted to come visit with him and talk to him about it. He wrote back and said, please come anytime. Let's fix a date. I even proposed to Kirk a specific date. That was the last text I sent him. I didn't hear back, and obviously I won't hear back.

[Michael Barbaro]

Robert, thank you. We very much appreciate it.

[Robert Draper]

You're welcome.

[Michael Barbaro]

In Utah on Wednesday night, police said that they were still searching for Kirk Shooter.

[Donald Trump]

To my great fellow Americans, I am filled with grief and anger at the heinous assassination of Charlie Kirk on a college campus in Utah.

[Michael Barbaro]

And in Washington, President Trump released a tribute to Kirk from the Oval Office.

[Donald Trump]

His mission was to bring young people into the political process, which he did better than anybody ever.

[Michael Barbaro]

In which, without evidence, Trump blamed the rise of political violence, including the attempt on his own life last year, exclusively on the political left, and promised to use his power to pursue the liberal individuals and groups who, he said have encouraged such violence.

[Donald Trump]

For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today, and it must stop right now.

[Michael Barbaro]

We'll be right back.

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[Michael Barbaro]

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[Michael Barbaro]

Here's what else you need to know today.

[Donald Trump]

This morning I introduced a very simple amendment that directs the Attorney General to.

[Robert Draper]

Release the Epstein files.

[Michael Barbaro]

In a surprise maneuver on Wednesday, the Democratic leader of the Senate, Chuck Schumer, tried to force a vote on releasing all of the government's files on Jeffrey Epstein.

[Robert Draper]

I asked my Republican colleagues, after all.

[Donald Trump]

Those years you spent calling for accountability, for transparency, for getting to the bottom.

[Robert Draper]

Of these awful crimes, why won't you vote?

[Michael Barbaro]

Yes, But Senate Republicans blocked the vote, with their leader, Senator John Thune, calling Schumer's effort a political stunt. Today's episode was produced by Diana Wynn, Olivia Natt, Anna Foley, Astha Chadharvedi and Michael Simon Johnson. It was edited by Devin Taylor and Rachel Quester, fact checked by Susan Lee, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Special thanks to Kellen Browning. That's it for the Daily I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.

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