The Cracking of the Trump Coalition

Summary

The Daily: "The Cracking of the Trump Coalition"

Date: December 11, 2025
Host: Natalie Kitroeff
Guest: Robert Draper, NYT reporter

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Episode Overview

This episode examines the growing fractures within the right-wing MAGA movement during Donald Trump’s second term. Once considered unbreakable, the Trump coalition is facing high-profile defections and rising internal dissent over core priorities such as affordability, foreign policy, and party discipline. Through deep reporting, Robert Draper details how these tensions have become suddenly public, what catalyzed them, and what they signal about the evolving future of the American right and Trump’s ability to maintain control of his supporters.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Early "Lame Duck" Signs: Trump's Waning Control

• Trump's Unique Hold—and Its Erosion: Trump has commanded unprecedented loyalty in the GOP. But now, only months into his second term, notable figures are openly challenging him—an unusually early sign of weakness for an incumbent.
  • Quote: "What's really notable is that this president is now just 10 to 11 months in beginning to show the signs of weakness that historically we associate with a lame duck..."
    (Robert Draper, 02:26)

2. September 10th, the Catalyst: The Assassination of Charlie Kirk

• Kirk as a Linchpin: Charlie Kirk of Turning Point USA, once pivotal in keeping the right's message disciplined, was assassinated on September 10th.
  • He had previously managed discontent about issues like Trump’s refusal to release Epstein files and military action in Iran.
• Aftermath: Kirk’s loss immediately unraveled message discipline; tensions within MAGA became public.
  • Quote: "...when he was gunned down on September 10, that discipline almost immediately began to give way."
    (Robert Draper, 07:06)

3. Nick Fuentes, Tucker Carlson, and Antisemitism on the Right

• Carlson’s Interview with Fuentes: After Kirk's death, divisions surfaced when Tucker Carlson, a major conservative voice, interviewed white nationalist Nick Fuentes.
  • Fuentes, known for overt antisemitism and racism, had long been shunned but not condemned by Trump.
  • Quote: "For Carlson...to be offering Nick Fuentes an opportunity to air his bigoted musings was the reason why so many people viewed this interview with great alarm."
    (Robert Draper, 09:47)
• Right’s Dilemma: Presenting Fuentes gives rise to a direct confrontation over bigotry, Israel, and Trump’s reluctance to disavow extremist supporters.
• Notable Segment—Carlson Interviewing Fuentes:
  • Carlson: "I always thought it's great to criticize and question, like, our relationship with Israel because it's insane and it hurts us." (14:40)
  • Fuentes: "You cannot actually divorce Israel and the neocons and all those things that you talk about from Jewishness." (15:36)

Right-Wing Pushback Against Carlson

• Ben Shapiro (Daily Wire): Strongly denounces Carlson's “normalizing” of Fuentes.
  • Quote: "It is not cancellation to refuse to signal boost Hitler’s supporters like Nick Fuentes. It is not cancellation to criticize Tucker Carlson for rhetorically fluffing Nick Fuentes and other anti-American crackpots."
    (Ben Shapiro, 17:23)
• Mark Levin and Randy Fine (Congressman): Also publicly condemn Carlson.

4. Trump’s Vulnerability: Foreign Policy v.s. "America First"

• Fracture Over Priorities: Influencers accuse Trump of betraying the “America First” agenda by focusing on foreign policy (including Israel, Iran, Ukraine) at the expense of affordability and domestic concerns.
  • Tucker Carlson’s Theory: Trump is finding it easier to appear effective in foreign affairs than to tackle tough domestic crises like the affordability problem.
  • Quote: "...his own focus historically on domestic problems, is now realizing it’s easier to be godlike in the foreign policy arena than at home."
    (Robert Draper, 20:42)

5. Marjorie Taylor Greene: From Loyalist to Dissenter

• Greene’s Journey: Once Trump's most zealous supporter, Greene grows disillusioned after feeling unrewarded and perceiving Trump’s betrayal on key issues (Epstein files, foreign spending, Gaza).
  • She voices concerns publicly—even on traditionally oppositional platforms, like The View.
  • Quote: "I feel like the government has failed all of us. And it purely disgusts me." (Marjorie Taylor Greene, 30:14)
• Her Resignation Announcement: Greene formalizes the split by resigning from Congress, stating, "America First should mean America First and only America First. With no other foreign country ever being attached..." (Marjorie Taylor Greene, 35:59)
• Trump Retaliates: Publicly attacks Greene (“Marjorie Traitor Greene”), threatens to back a primary challenger, and, according to Greene, unleashes a wave of threats—including against her children.
  • Quote: "She was deeply upset, most of all by the label of her as a traitor...now she was getting attacks from...her favorite president was unleashing...these threats." (Robert Draper, 34:03)

6. Implications for the Trump Coalition

• A Weakening Base: Draper explains that while Trump’s loyal core endures, independents and previously supportive voting blocs (young people, Black and Latino men) are moving away in significant numbers.
  • Quote: "...the clear and present danger for the Trump administration is that he no longer has a solid coalition of the type that brought him victory."
    (Robert Draper, 38:31)

7. Trump’s Attempt to Reclaim Momentum

• Trump launches a domestic tour to address affordability and paychecks, but his tone is defensive and dismissive rather than empathetic.
  • Trump (at rally): "They say he shouldn't be traveling. He should focus on home. What the hell do you think I'm doing?" (40:06)
  • Draper observes Trump bristles at voter anxieties, describing an "impossible to hide" defensiveness.
  • Quote: "The posture is not one of ‘voters, I hear you.’ Far from it. Instead, he has been dismissive of the word affordability...that has created a real defensiveness with Trump."
    (Robert Draper, 40:28)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "That discipline almost immediately began to give way."
  (On Charlie Kirk’s assassination unraveling party unity — Robert Draper, 07:06)
• "You cannot actually divorce Israel...from Jewishness."
  (Nick Fuentes, voicing overt antisemitism, 15:36)
• "America First should mean America First and only America First."
  (Marjorie Taylor Greene, resignation statement, 35:59)
• "I think that his testiness has been on full display."
  (Robert Draper on Trump’s manner during his domestic tour, 39:59)

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Key Timestamps

| Time | Segment / Topic | |---------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:26 | Draper on the unusual early signs of weakness in Trump’s second term | | 07:06 | The impact of Charlie Kirk’s assassination on MAGA unity | | 09:47 | Tucker Carlson’s pivotal interview with Nick Fuentes | | 14:40 | Carlson aligns with Fuentes on Israel skepticism | | 17:21 | Ben Shapiro and other right figures denounce Carlson’s platforming of Fuentes | | 20:42 | Draper discusses Trump’s shift from domestic issues to foreign affairs, per Tucker Carlson | | 25:44 | Marjorie Taylor Greene’s arc from loyalist to critic | | 29:28 | Greene’s surprising appearance on The View and messaging shift | | 34:03 | Greene describes backlash and threats after Trump’s social media attacks | | 35:27 | Greene publicly resigns from Congress | | 38:31 | Draper: The bottom “falling out” of Trump’s support among independents and key voter groups | | 40:06 | Trump’s dismissive tone on public anxieties during his “affordability” tour |

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Conclusion

The episode paints a vivid (and sometimes chaotic) portrait of a Trump movement that—despite a second term—has begun to openly fracture. With Charlie Kirk’s death unspooling party discipline, high-visibility figures like Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene breaking with key Trump positions, and grassroots supporters questioning the core “America First” promise, Trump faces a level of internal dissent previously unseen. Whether he can heal these divides or they herald a post-Trump realignment is uncertain, but as Draper notes: "The fractures that ensue are really going to be impossible to heal." (41:01)

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For those who missed this episode, it provides both a gripping narrative and deep perspective on the evolving fault lines of the American right heading into an uncertain future.

Transcript

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[Natalie Kitroewff]

From the New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitroweff. This is the Daily.

In the years since Donald Trump roared back to power, one of the most surprising storylines of his second term has been a series of increasingly public ruptures between the president and the movement he created on everything from affordability to foreign wars. Key figures on the right are now daring to challenge Trump's priorities and his effectiveness.

Today, my colleague Robert Draper on the growing tensions inside the MAGA movement and what they tell us about what the American right might look like in a post Trump world.

It's Thursday, december 11th.

Robert hi, welcome back to the show.

[Robert Draper]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

So we're coming to you because for several years now you've been reporting extensively on the right and as a part of that you spent a lot of time with some of the key figures in the MAGA movement, some of whom have started to openly speak out against the president. And so we're hoping you can help us understand what's been happening in the relationship between President Trump and his movement, which until recently looked pretty unshakable.

[Robert Draper]

Yeah, in a sense, Natalie, what's taking place is in step with what historically has transpired with presidencies that after a certain period, a president begins to take on the appearance of being a lame duck.

Longer is in full control of the agenda, and the party begins to look at life after him. But typically that has taken place after the midterms, after a two year period. And so what's really notable is that this president is now just 10 to 11 months in beginning to show the signs of weakness that historically we associate with a lame duck, when in fact he should not be a lame duck.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Right.

[Robert Draper]

And alongside that, it's also notable that President Trump, like no other political figure before him in recent memory at least, has exerted a real stranglehold over his party. The party's philosophy, the party's governing ideology has been whatever President Trump has said it will be. That has started to change. And the fact that People are daring. And let's be clear, not everyone is. But that anyone is beginning to voice objections or take exception to President Trump's governing philosophy is something very new. So the fact that it's happening at all and the fact that it's happening so early are both unusual features that were, I don't think, in any way expected when this president first took his oath in January.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Right. It does strike me as honestly stunning, because it feels as though just a few months ago, we were thinking of this president really as all powerful, as kind of invincible. He was swept in with this mandate, he was taking executive actions left and right, and very quickly. You're saying he's now being seen within his own party as vulnerable. It sounds like that's right.

[Robert Draper]

And when President Trump took his second oath of office, there were people on the right proclaiming this the golden era of America. They really believed that nothing would be impossible with this president. But that began to change, however, in the late summer, when we began to see prominent conservative influencers dared to go off message from administration policy and in fact, outright contradict what the administration's preferred policy was. And so, in doing so, they began implicitly to announce that the President was no longer longer omnipotent and to presage a kind of vulnerability in this administration.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Okay, so take us back to that time during the late summer when this started to emerge. When did all of this start to feel distinct to you?

[Robert Draper]

Yeah, I can place a date on it. That date is September 10th of this year when Charlie Kirk was assassinated. Kirk, the head of Turning Point usa, was not only a conservative activist, but a confidant of the President. And to be he cleared. Natalie. There were already fissures in the movement. There was disquiet over the President's intransigence regarding his refusal to release the Epstein files. There was concern relating to the President's decision to bomb nuclear facilities in Iran. And Charlie Kirk was unable to tamp down altogether those growing concerns. I want to try to address the issue that many people in our audience are emailing us about. I'm of course, talking about the Epstein situation. What Kirk was able to do was to modulate criticisms of the President. Everyone knows my opinion about the Epstein thing. I would love to see the DOJ move to unseal the grand jury testimony. I think that would be a big win to say externally, I think that we should release the Epstein files. And once it became evident to Kirk where the President stood on this, that he didn't want to hear right wing influencers talking about the subject of Epstein anymore. Kirk was able to expertly pivot away from him pressing for the release of the files to saying, I'm going to trust Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, J.D. vance. It's their ball, it's their possession. I have full faith in the administration's ability to, to look into this matter. I've said my piece. And that viewpoint became the prevailing talking point amongst figures on the right. I'm going to trust my friends in the government to do what needs to be done. I've said so. This was the unique skill of Kirk to enforce a kind of discipline in the overall message of the right. People looked to Kirk in that regard and correspondingly then, when he was gunned down on September 10, that discipline almost immediately began to give way. And without him, it began to feel like the conservative movement or the MAGA movement was not so much cast adrift, but reverberating with all of these tensions.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

So, Robert, where do you first see the impact of that loss on maga? Like, what's the first example of these divisions that were bubbling up, starting to spill out in the open after Kirk's death?

[Robert Draper]

I think the first moment at which these discontents, disagreements became very public was when Tucker Carlson hosted on his show the white nationalist, Nick Fuentes. Fuentes had been considered a sort of verboten figure in the conservative movement, a guy they very much wanted to keep at the margins because he casually issued some unabashedly anti Semitic and racist and sexist commentary. He has suggested that the numbers don't add up when it comes to 6 million Jews perishing in the Holocaust. He has said outright that blacks were better off under Jim Crow than they are today. He has made all sorts of obnoxious statements regarding women and how they should essentially be used as chattel. And most of all, he has not just spoken critically of Israel in the Israeli government, but he has honed in on what he calls the problem of organized Jewry in America and has been unapologetic in his belief that Jews are a problem unassimilable and incorrigible in their unwillingness to assimilate, and that that presents America with its foremost problem. And so for Carlson, who is arguably the most influential conservative voice in America, a person who remains very close to President Trump through the thick and thin of their disagreements, and who is especially close to Vice President J.D. vance, to be offering Nick Fuentes an opportunity to air his bigoted musings was the reason why so many people viewed this interview with great Alarm.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Let's just slow that down for a moment. Can you tell us about Nick Fuentes? Who is he?

[Robert Draper]

Sure. Nick Fuentes is a 27 year old right wing influencer who had been more or less on the scene since 2017. He was an early and loud supporter of President Trump, but not one of any particular consequence. In 2017, he began to pop up in the media because at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, that included the notorious chant, you will not replace us. Jews will not replace us.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

The torch carriers.

[Robert Draper]

Yeah. Yes, Fuentes was among them. So he began to gain some traction then, but by and large was held at bay from the right. And that continued really to be the case even when he had dinner with Kanye west, with President Trump at Mar a Lago. These were the sort of sporadic appearances by Fuentes, but he was still viewed as not a major figure.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

And yet at the same time, Right. Trump didn't disavow Fuentes. He didn't condemn him. After that infamous lunch, he kind of said something like, I didn't know who this guy was, I didn't invite him. But there was no direct disavow.

[Robert Draper]

No. And that's a salient point, Natalie. Trump's refusal to say, and by the way, had I known, I would never have brought him, you know, at Mar a Lago was very much in keeping with the statements made by Marjorie Taylor Greene, the Congresswoman from Georgia, and Congressman Paul Gosar when each of them in 2021 and 2022 appeared at Nick Fuentes America first conferences. So what's going on here? Why the refusal to condemn Fuentes? Outwardly, what that's about is that they all recognize that Fuentes, for whatever else he was or wasn't, commanded a sizable following of young male, almost entirely white, disaffected conservatives, which is a key part of the Trump coalition. And no one wish to condemn Fuentes for fear of condemning his followers.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Right. They don't want to kick him out of the tent.

[Robert Draper]

That's right. They want him out of the tent, but they still want his people. And so he's presented the conservative movement with something of a conundrum throughout. Mainly them, the view of Fuentes was, hopefully he will just go away and these young disaffected male conservatives will find another Big Brother figure. So that was the state of play until around August and early September of this year when Tucker Carlson happened to make a sidelong comment about Fuentes on his show, saying that Fuentes was just some kid living in his basement saying obnoxious things. And Fuentes saw that as an opportunity to issue days and days of rebuttals on his own podcast, which in turn really ratcheted up his following and brought attention not just to Fuentes vis a vis Carlson, but Fuentes in general. And all of the podcasters on the ride began to talk about this dust up between those two. And so finally, Carlson himself decided and was convinced, frankly, by people who were friends of his who talked to him and said, you know, you're underestimating this guy Fuentes. He actually has a really sizable following. And Carlson decided them to have him on his show.

[Tucker Carlson]

Nick Fuentes, thank you for doing this.

[Nick Fuentes]

Yeah, thank you for having me.

[Tucker Carlson]

I wanted to meet you. I've heard about you.

[Robert Draper]

I've heard about you, so thank you. And it was this very sort of genial two hours.

[Tucker Carlson]

You're one of those people. One of the reasons I wanted to meet you is you're one of those people who is defined by clips. Yes, And I'm one of those people also.

[Nick Fuentes]

Yes, yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I get it.

[Robert Draper]

In which Carlson, in effect, slid the microphone in front of Fuentes and let him riff on.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I'm gonna just shut up and you tell me what you actually believe.

[Nick Fuentes]

Yeah, well, and listen, I mean, and I appreciate you saying that because it's. That's just the reality of the media environment we're in. So if you. I don't expect you to know all my views, but, I mean, as far as the Jews are concerned now, why.

[Robert Draper]

Did Tucker Carlson do this? Well, you know why.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Yeah, my question exactly.

[Robert Draper]

Sure. Well, and I think that the answer to that, Natalie, is that he was finding common cause in Fuentes because Carlson himself over the past year, had become increasingly anti Israel, or as he would put it, anti Israeli government.

[Tucker Carlson]

I always thought it's great to criticize and question, like, our relationship with Israel because it's insane and it hurts us. We get nothing out of it. I completely agree with you there that.

[Robert Draper]

The Israeli government has been the tail that has wagged the dog of American affairs for far too long.

[Tucker Carlson]

I've always thought I have the world's most moderate position on Israel. Don't hate Israel. Just don't want to get involved in their wars. Don't want to pay for this. Don't want to pay for abortion on demand in a foreign country. Sorry. When we're cutting food stamps on our own. Like, this is outrageous. It's not.

[Robert Draper]

America first, while insisting that he abhors antisemitism, what I do think is bad.

[Tucker Carlson]

Just objectively bad and destructive is the all Jews are guilty or all anybody is guilty of anything, because that's just like not true.

[Robert Draper]

But by and large he was very accommodating towards Fuentes's view, which was and is unambiguously anti Semitic.

[Nick Fuentes]

Like I said, you cannot actually divorce Israel and the neocons and all those things that you talk about from Jewishness.

[Robert Draper]

There had never really been anyone of Tucker Carlson's stature who had spoken to Fuentes before on the air.

[Tucker Carlson]

You're clearly ascendant. You're enormously talented. You're more talented than I am for.

[Robert Draper]

Sure as a talker and to give him that kind of softball treatment.

[Tucker Carlson]

Nick Fuentes, thank you very much.

[Nick Fuentes]

Thank you.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's nice to meet you.

[Nick Fuentes]

Likewise.

[Robert Draper]

I struck so many on the right as really alarming and inappropriate.

[Nick Fuentes]

Tucker Carlson's a nobody. He got famous on Fox.

[Robert Draper]

That's it. Mark Levin, the right wing broadcaster, denounced Carlson.

[Nick Fuentes]

Nick Fuentes is gum on the bottom of our shoe. Tucker Carlson is a bleeding hemorrhoid on the body politic. They're not maga.

[Robert Draper]

They're not conservative. Today Tucker Carlson is the most dangerous anti Semite in America. The Congressman Randy Fine said as well that Carlson's remarks and his amiable treatment of Fuentes had no place in the conservative movement. Tucker is not maga.

And in particular the well known right wing podcaster Ben Shapiro of the Daily Wire. Shapiro himself is an orthodox Jew. He made no bones about it.

[Nick Fuentes]

The issue here isn't that Tucker Carlson had Nick Fuentes on his show last week. He has every right to do that. Of course, the issue here is that Tucker Carlson decided to normalize and fluff Nick Fuentes.

[Robert Draper]

This is anti Semitism.

[Nick Fuentes]

It is not cancellation to refuse to signal boost Hitler's supporters like Nick Fuentes. It is not cancellation to criticize Tucker Carlson for rhetorically fluffing Nick Fuentes and other anti American crackpots.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

So this Tucker Fuentes interview obviously touched a nerve over divisions on the question of the US relationship with Israel and antisemitism and whether there is tolerance for blatant anti Semitism in the conservative movement. And I'm curious where Trump sits in all of this, Robert, because he's obviously maintained a very close alliance with Israel, but he's also been known to have a meal with Nick Fuentes. So where is Trump on this and what does this whole saga tell us about his vulnerability on this issue?

[Robert Draper]

Yeah, it's a great question, Natalie. And on the one hand, I think that Trump has been one of the Most pro Israel presidents we've seen, on the other hand, has at no point denounced Fuentes, nor for that matter, has Vice President J.D. vance, despite the fact that Fuentes has routinely insulted not only Vance, but Vance's wife and her family, who are from India. So there is a permission structure, seemingly for bigotry and antisemitism to be aired out in the conservative movement, which makes a lot of people on the right uncomfortable. But you mentioned vulnerability, and I think this is an important thing to focus on, not just as it relates to antisemitism, but also how one interprets this administration's priorities when the president was elected, when largely on keeping our attention fixed to domestic issues. Now, Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson are able to reasonably assert that foreign entanglements have intruded into and in many ways disrupted those administration priorities, not just as regards Israel, but as regards Ukraine and as regards Venezuela.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

And it sounds like it's connected to a kind of broader question that's being asked about Trump's priorities in general, the focus on foreign affairs, on foreign conflicts, to potentially the detriment of a focus on domestic issues.

[Robert Draper]

Yes. So I talked to Tucker Carlson about this when I spent a few hours with him in November, and Carlson had a theory on this. And he said, look, the truth is that President Trump is realizing how difficult it is to solve a lot of these intractable domestic issues, particularly as it relates to affordability. You can talk about the price of eggs or something, or even the price of gas, but overall, there is a real affordability crisis in America, and it's tough to do anything about that. Carlson said that, by contrast, you can go bomb a nuclear site in Iran, knowing Iran probably isn't going to do anything about it. And you can look heroic and you can look.

Trump, for all of his own focus historically on domestic problems, is now realizing it's easier to be godlike in the foreign policy arena than at home.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Right. I mean, there's a political logic to what Carlson is saying here. One of the main issues driving Trump's election was the economy. And so I imagine there's a lot of people who feel like they voted for him because they expected Trump as president to have a laser like focus on pocketbook issues rather than on mediating conflicts in far flung places, which is something he's done a lot of in his first year.

[Robert Draper]

Right. But in raising that point, Natalie, what you're doing is essentially introducing what I think is an important distinction, and that is the distinction between two slogans by President Trump. Maga, make America Great Again and America First. So Make America Great Again is basically a campaign slogan. It's inextricably tied to President Trump. I mean, everyone kind of understands that what it means is like America wasn't great when Obama was president, it became great when Trump became president, it became terrible again when Biden was president. Now it's great again because of Trump. It's, to put it bluntly, a personality cult notion. But it is finally a slogan. America first is a principle. And defining what America first is is the kind of thing that's subject to useful ideological argument. I think that Tucker Carlson and perhaps just as much Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene have been at the forefront of saying, look, America first principles have been laid out. They have been commonly understood by conservatives, by voters of President Trump. And now the Trump administration has been wayward, has veered off of those commitments to Americans and at the same time.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

You know, spending money on things that a lot of people took issue with. A ballroom, for example.

[Robert Draper]

Yes, that his own actions seem to be at variance with his pledges to put Americans first.

And it's this cognitive dissonance that began to result in another noticeable fracture in the party, particularly with Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

And we will talk about her right after the break. We'll be right back.

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[Natalie Kitroewff]

Robert, you brought up Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene from Georgia. And and her evolution really feels emblematic of this break with Trump that we're starting to see among some on the right. Obviously, she became famous for being one of Trump's closest allies. And now she has since announced her resignation from office and said pretty explicitly that Trump is betraying the movement. So let's talk about this journey that Marjorie Taylor Greene has been on.

[Robert Draper]

I mean, Natalie, it is a singular journey. It represents the most extreme case of a magaloalist becoming a dissenting voice to the Trump administration. But having said that, I do think that it does reflect in a broader sense this evolution from everyone singing with precision from the maga hymnal to now striking discordant notes. And that is so remarkable given how unflagging a supporter Greene was of Trump. She arrived in Washington in early January of 2021, freshly elected, with an unapologetically pro Trump campaign platform, expecting that she would be part of facilitating President Trump's second term. Instead, she arrived just a couple of days before January 6th with Trump having been defeated and at a time on the heels of the Capitol Rio, when a lot of Republicans wanted to distance themselves from the defeated former president. Marjorie Taylor Greene was the most vociferous defender of Trump, really, in Washington, and continued to be so throughout his campaign. In 2024, when he was at the Republican National Convention, she sat by his side on the second day in the presidential booth and was pledging that Trump was a gift from God and that she viewed him in kind of these theolog ideological proportions as someone who would be saving America. So the beginning of Trump's second term saw Marjorie Taylor Greene unflaggingly by his side. But then alongside her own arc regarding Trump was her own experience in Congress when she became increasingly disillusioned with her own party that once it had power, didn't really do anything with it. And she began to think maybe of running for something else, perhaps senator, perhaps governor of Georgia. And far from getting any encouragement, the Trump White House basically threw a wet blanket over that. She told me that she felt like all of her loyalty to Trump was amounting to a one way street.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

It wasn't being rewarded.

[Robert Draper]

That's correct, yes. And so that sets the stage then, I think, for what began to happen over the last two or three months, where she began to be increasingly disillusioned, not just with the Republican Party, but with President Trump himself.

And I think that one real flashpoint was Trump's refusal to release the Epstein files. This had become an article of faith amongst the right. The one thing they could all agree on was that Jeffrey Epstein was the most heinous sex trafficker in America. And so to see now Trump hedging and then saying, stop talking about Epstein. There's no there. There was outrageous to her. Then during the government shutdown, she began to go home and she'd talk to her constituents and they'd say, you know, housing is still unaffordable, Groceries are still unaffordable. We thought that the President was going to do something about this. And why, by the way, is he spending all this money in Israel? And we're seeing this horrible footage of what's taking place in Gaza. Green told me that she began to hear the G word genocide by her own constituents. And Green became the first prominent Republican to describe what was taking place in Gaza as a genocide. So Green began to voice her concerns very publicly. And it's not just that she voiced them, but it's where she voiced them.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

For the very first time on the View. We are joined by someone you might be surprised to see here.

[Robert Draper]

She went on the View.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Please welcome Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[Robert Draper]

Which is largely regarded as a left leaning show. And the specter of this right wing MAGA warrior being on a show like that was a rather remarkable one. And one, frankly that people on the set of the View were surprised at. I spoke to one of them who had said that they were suspecting that Greene would come in loaded for bear and just rip into all of them and once again talk about how great Trump was.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Look, I'm with women, so I feel very comfortable saying this. I'm really tired of the pissing contests in Washington D.C. between the men. I really am.

[Robert Draper]

They were not prepared at all for this really very accommodating individual.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

And I feel like the government has failed all of us. And it purely disgusts me who said.

[Robert Draper]

Look, things have gotten overheated in today's politics.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I represent a district that is rural manufacturing district, blue collar workers and people have been crushed by decades of failure in Washington D.C. and so I have no problem pointing fingers at everyone.

[Robert Draper]

And one by one, maybe you should become a Democrat, Marjorie.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

I feel like I'm sitting next to a completely different Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[Robert Draper]

The co hosts on the air expressed astonishment that this was The Marjorie Taylor Greene they were seeing.

And in addition to the view, Greene was speaking to other media outlets.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Here's my issue. I'm America first, and I don't apologize for that. And I believe Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, should be serving the American people.

[Robert Draper]

Though what she had to say during these interviews wasn't openly critical of the administration, implicitly she was striking a note of disagreement.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

When you campaign on America first, it's like having a restaurant advertising, like, a certain type of food, and then you don't deliver America first, you're not going to have those return customers.

[Trump Supporter / Rally Participant]

I don't know what happened to Marjorie. She's a nice woman, but I don't know what happened. She's lost her way, I think, and.

[Robert Draper]

It clearly got under President Trump's skin.

[Trump Supporter / Rally Participant]

Somebody like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who's now catering to the other side. I don't know what, you know, I guess she's, you know, got some kind of an act going, but I'm surprised at her. But when somebody like Marjorie goes over and. And starts making statements like that, it shows she doesn't know.

[Robert Draper]

The great umbrage that he took was expressed.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Finally tonight, disagreements between President Trump and.

[Robert Draper]

One of his most reliable and vocal.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Supporters in Congress have taken an ugly.

[Robert Draper]

Turn with a posting that he made on Truth Social.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Marjorie Traitor Greene is a disgrace to our great Republican Party. He wrote on social media in which.

[Robert Draper]

He called her Marjorie Traitor Greene belittled her.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

I can't take a ranting lunatic's call every day, end quote.

[Robert Draper]

It said that she was always trying to call him, but that he had no time for this, that she was pouting because he hadn't been supportive of her political ambitions. But now he not only had had enough of her, the President even suggested he'd be open to backing a challenger to her seat in Congress. He alluded to the distinction likelihood that he would try to find a Trump loyalist who would primary her in her congressional race in 2026.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Yeah, I mean, this was a pretty frontal attack by Trump. So how does Greene respond?

[Robert Draper]

She was deeply upset, most of all by the label of her as a traitor. And of course, the implication was that she was a traitor, not just to President Trump and to the MAGA movement, but a traitor to America. And she was really outraged by that. What she also reacted to was a torrent of death threats that came in. This, in a sense, was not new to Greene. She had gotten death threats, really from early on in taking office. She was being doxed. Lots of things like that were happening they were all happening from the left. However, now she was getting attacks from what she often described as her favorite president. Her favorite president was unleashing, in her view, these threats. And it's not just that the threats were levied against her. They were levied against her own children, and her children were named. I know this because Green told me that and said she was terrified. So it was really, really alarming and scary for her.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Wow.

[Robert Draper]

And so this was. I was getting all these texts, by the way, you know, from friends of mine in the political world saying she's rebranding herself. What is this about?

[Natalie Kitroewff]

And what is your sense about what these appearances were really about? Were they driven by the feedback she was getting from her constituen? Was it something else?

[Robert Draper]

Yes, the former tinged also with the belief of, what the hell, I've got nothing to lose. Since whim, has my unflagging loyalty paid off for me? It hasn't. So she felt somewhat liberated from her allegiances to President Trump. But I think alongside that, she truly believed what she was saying. She truly had heard what her constituents had been telling her, that they were like her taking the president's principle of America first not just seriously, but literally. You know, they were saying, hang on, how is it America first to be not just supporting Ukraine, but also Israel? Do we not care about women who have been victimized by the rich and powerful? And meanwhile, things are still expensive? Why isn't the President out there every day doing something about this? These were the tenants of America first that they believed the President would be addressing. That Marjorie Taylor Greene was certain he would be addressing. But she now began to have doubts, in part because she was hearing her constituents raise those very same doubts.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

And not long after.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Hi, everyone.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

She announces that she's gonna resign.

[Robert Draper]

That's correct.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I've always represented the common American man and woman as a member of the House of Representatives, which is why I've always been despised in Washington, D.C. and just never fit in.

[Robert Draper]

She did a video that she posted.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

On X. I ran for Congress in 2020 and have fought every single day believing that Make America Great Again meant America First.

[Robert Draper]

It was a posting that took even her close allies by surprise.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

America first should mean America first and only American First. With no other foreign country ever being attached to America first in our halls.

[Robert Draper]

Of government, it became, I think, obvious to most, if not all, that it was really her renouncing a movement that had strayed from its core America first principle.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I do not want my sweet district to have to endure a hurtful and hateful primary against me by the president that we all fought for and that.

[Robert Draper]

She would be fighting if she were to be reelected on behalf of a president who now disliked her and who had done her great injury, but also who no longer was the embodiment of America first. And so what was the point of that?

[Natalie Kitroewff]

I have to ask, Robert, but isn't the fact that Green stepped down over this dust up a sign that Trump is actually stronger politically than we may be thinking? I mean, I think a lot of people might see this incident as him winning. He still, at the end of the day, had the political weight to drive one of his critics out of political office.

[Robert Draper]

Historically, that has been the case. Just as you've described it, Natalie, that this is a show of Trump's power. But to say that now would be to ignore the atmospherics, that all of this is taking place at a point in which Trump's approval rating is near the lowest that it's ever been, at a time when people on the right like Tucker Carlson, are beginning to speak with a great deal of bluntness, with real candor, about the Trump administration's misguided priorities. So if this was just crushing the one lone dissenter and everybody then issuing a chorus on the ride of good riddance to her, we all love President Trump, it'd be one thing, but that's not actually what's taken place. She simply said, Trump's White House is not doing what they said they were gonna do. And that sentiment is one that is beginning to gain a lot of traction on the right. It's extending to the Trump coalition that got him reelected in 2024. I don't think that his hardcore bas deserted him, but the bottom has really fallen out of his support amongst independents, and they were key to his victory, as were young people and black males and Latino males as well. Now, whether it's because of their own experiences or because they happen to be listening to Tucker Carlson, to Nick Fuentes, and to other influencers, or a combination, the polling data clearly shows that these people who were so crucial to Trump's victory in 2024, are starting to move away from him in really, really significant numbers. And so even if his core base remains steadfast, the clear and present danger for the Trump administration is that he no longer has a solid coalition of the type that brought him victory.

[Trump Supporter / Rally Participant]

Usa. Usa.

[Nick Fuentes]

Usa.

[Trump Supporter / Rally Participant]

I just want to say hello, Pennsylvania. And I thrilled to be back.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Robert. I want to end by asking if you get the sense that Trump is actually listening, perhaps to the concerns that are being raised by voters and by people like Marjorie Taylor Greene. He's just kicked off this new domestic tour, the purpose of which is to go around the country and talk about issues of affordability, paychecks.

[Trump Supporter / Rally Participant]

You're getting lower prices, bigger paychecks.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

And that does feel like an acknowledgment in some sense that he knows he has a problem here.

[Robert Draper]

Yes, that's true. He certainly absorbed this. I think that his testiness has been on full display.

[Trump Supporter / Rally Participant]

They said he shouldn't be traveling. He should focus on home. What the hell do you think I'm doing?

[Robert Draper]

The posture is not one of voters. I hear you. I feel your pain. Far from it. Instead, he has been dismissive of the word affordability, but they use the word.

[Trump Supporter / Rally Participant]

Affordability, and that's their only word. They say affordability.

[Robert Draper]

But I think most of all, Natalie, what has annoyed Trump is that his voters had been generally trusting of everything that Trump said he was doing or was about to do during his first 100 days. But the anxieties that his constituents are feeling is now impossible to hide. And I think that that has created a real defensiveness with Trump.

[Trump Supporter / Rally Participant]

You know, the stupid people, they say he should be leaving our country. Yeah, let's sit around and twiddle our thumbs.

[Robert Draper]

So will this tour that Trump is embarking on help mend the schisms in the Republican Party and restore him as the one and only voice in the conservative movement? Possibly. But I do think that what we've seen take place is an emergence of voices who dare to hold the president accountable to his America first pledge. And as various people joust over just what that pledge should be, the fractures that ensue are really going to be impossible to heal.

It's hard to imagine what would happen to bring all those pieces back together.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Well, Robert, thank you so much for your time.

[Robert Draper]

Sure thing, Natalie.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

We'll be right back.

[Bank of America Advertiser]

This podcast is supported by bank of America Private Bank. Your ambition leaves an impression. What you do next can leave a legacy. At bank of America Private bank, our wealth and business strategies can help take your ambition to the next level. Whatever your passion, unlock more powerful [e-mail] what would you like the power to do? Bank of America Official bank of the FIFA World Cup 2026 bank of America Private bank is a division of bank of America, NA member fdic and a wholly owned subsidiary of bank of America Corporation.

[Nick Fuentes]

In a world full of information, we're all searching for ways to understand it. TikTok helps millions do just that on TikTok. Entire communities are turning curiosity into connection. History lovers share stories that bring the past into focus, from ancient civilizations to modern traditions. Scientists and educators break down big ideas with experiments and insights that make discovery feel approachable. Book fans trade recommendations that revive old classics and propel new authors onto best seller lists. Parents swap advice that feels both practical and reassuring, while home cooks share recipes and food traditions that make culture tangible and personal. And across art, language and everyday tips, people on TikTok give fresh perspectives on the world we share. The result is discovery, new ideas spark conversations, and fresh perspectives spread across communities. TikTok is a place for curiosity where learning is fun, connection is meaningful, and discovery never stops.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

Here's what else you need to know today.

[Trump Supporter / Rally Participant]

It's been an interesting day from the standpoint of news.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

President Trump announced Wednesday afternoon that the US had seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela.

[Trump Supporter / Rally Participant]

Large tanker, very large.

Largest one ever seized, actually.

[Natalie Kitroewff]

The seizure was a clear escalation in the administration's pressure campaign against Nicolas Maduro, the president of Venezuela. Trump didn't offer any additional details about the operation, but U.S. officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the action was the result of of deliberate planning and that there were no casualties. And the Federal Reserve voted on Wednesday to lower interest rates by a quarter of a percentage point. It was the fourth straight vote in a row that wasn't backed by all members, a mark of just how fractured the central bank has become as it struggles to balance the risks of rising unemployment and sticky inflation.

Today's episode was produced by Caitlin o' Keefe and Eric Krupke, with help from Alex Stern. It was edited by Rachel Quester with help from Paige Cowett. Fact Checked by Susan Lee contains music by Marion Lozano, Elisheba Etoupe, Dan Powell and Diane Wong and was engineered by Chris Wood.

That that's it for the Daily. I'm Natalie Kitroev. See you tomorrow.

[Bank of America Advertiser]

This podcast is supported by bank of America Private Bank. Your ambition leaves an impression. What you do next can leave a legacy. At bank of America Private bank, our wealth and business strategies can help take your ambition to the next level. Whatever your passion, unlock more powerful [e-mail]. what would you like the power to do? Bank of America Official bank of the FIFA World Cup 2026 bank of America Private bank is a division of bank of America, NA member FDIC and a wholly owned subsidiary of bank of America Corporation.