The Firing of Kristi Noem

Summary

The Daily — "The Firing of Kristi Noem"

Date: March 6, 2026
Host: Michael Barbaro
Episode Theme:
A deep-dive into the abrupt firing of Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem by President Trump, the underlying tensions that led to her ouster, and the implications for Trump’s immigration agenda and the broader administration.

---

Overview

This episode unpacks the seismic and unexpected firing of Kristi Noem, President Trump's Secretary of Homeland Security, marking the first Cabinet shake-up of Trump's second term—contradicting the administration’s promise of stability and ideological alignment. The discussion explores Noem’s rise, her controversial leadership, the scandals leading up to her firing, and how her downfall reflects both personal and systemic failures at the highest echelons of power.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Noem’s Firing Is So Shocking

• [01:17-03:19]
  The firing was not expected, as Trump’s second-term Cabinet was chosen for loyalty and supposed immunity from the revolving-door firings of Trump’s first term.
  • “The entire premise of the second term Trump cabinet was that it was kind of unfirable… He was only gonna pick ideologically aligned cabinet members… That was really the case until Noem.” — Hamid Ali Aziz [02:00]
  • Noem’s ouster broke the illusion of Cabinet stability.

2. Kristi Noem’s Rise and the Handling of Trump’s Deportation Agenda

• [03:37-05:31]
  Noem was a surprising pick: best known nationally for a memoir where she admitted to shooting her dog, and for her time as Governor of South Dakota and as a congresswoman. Trump propelled her from relative obscurity to one of the country’s most high-profile cabinet positions.
  • “She was unapologetic, and President Trump backed her over and over… she really put President Trump at the center of whatever she did.” — Narrator [01:28]
• [04:38-05:31]
  Noem became the public face of the crackdown, with highly visible, aggressive stunts, including at a notorious El Salvador prison.
  • "First of all, do not come to our country illegally. You will be removed and you will be prosecuted..." — Kristi Noem [04:59]
  • These performances often put Noem at the center of media attention and drew criticism for their harshness and spectacle.

3. Controversial Ad Campaigns and Accusations of Self-Promotion

• [07:18-09:01]
  Noem appeared in $200 million worth of taxpayer-funded DHS ads, presenting herself as both the face and executor of Trump's enforcement agenda.
  • "From President Trump and me. Welcome home." — Kristi Noem [08:00]
  • Lawmakers and critics accused her of using the role to further personal ambitions, at great public expense.

4. Escalating Scandals: Aggressive Enforcement, Minneapolis, and Lewandowski

• Aggressive Policing: [09:01-09:44]
  DHS actions under Noem (raids in Home Depot parking lots, racial profiling, U.S. citizens swept up) became deeply polarizing—yet Trump still stood by her.
  • “Even President Trump’s supporters, including Joe Rogan, call out repeatedly, Trump stands by her.” — Narrator [09:19]
• Minneapolis Shooting: [09:44-11:49]
  A turning point came with the death of Alex Spready in Minneapolis at the hands of DHS agents. Noem declared him a “domestic terrorist”—a claim disproved later.
  • "This individual ... committed an act of domestic terrorism. That's the facts." — Kristi Noem [10:20]
  • Noem’s misrepresentation at this high-pressure moment eroded her credibility and saw Trump sideline her—unprecedented for a DHS Secretary.
• Wall Street Journal Exposé: [12:07-14:20]
  Reports surfaced of Noem’s close relationship with controversial advisor Corey Lewandowski, who wielded extraordinary influence without official status, fueling rumors of an affair and improper conduct.
  • “He is really, in many ways, this incredibly powerful figure across DHS...” — Narrator [12:37]
  • Despite the damaging story, Trump did not immediately act.

5. Disastrous Congressional Testimony

• [16:44-21:55]
  Noem’s hearings before Congress brought all controversies to the fore—her statements on the shootings, the Lewandowski rumors, and her stewardship of DHS.
  • “At any time during your tenure… have you had sexual relations with Corey Lewandowski?” — Rep. Kamlager-Dove [17:59]
  • Noem dodged the question and was accused of evasiveness.
  • Republican frustration boiled over, with Sen. Kennedy lambasting her over ad-spending, inefficiency, and the negative repercussions of her leadership:
    • "What we've seen is a disaster under your leadership, Ms. Noem. A disaster." — Sen. Kennedy [19:38]

6. The Final Straw: Publicly Linking Trump to the Ad Spending

• [21:14-23:45]
  Under tough questioning, Noem claimed Trump had personally approved the $200M ad buy—Trump publicly denied this, calling her a liar, leading to her dismissal hours later.
  • "It's just hard for me to believe, knowing the President, that he would have agreed to that." — Sen. Kennedy [21:22]
  • “What really cost her her job was invoking Trump’s name as she sought to defend something that people in both parties regard as kind of wasteful and self-promotional...” — Hamid Ali Aziz [23:02]

7. Aftermath and Replacement

• [24:44-27:40]
  Trump appointed Sen. Markwayne Mullen—an MMA fighter known for his combative style—as Noem’s replacement, indicating continuity in policy, but perhaps hoping for less personal drama.
  • "He’s somebody who doesn’t shy away from a fight... perhaps wants that from someone who’s leading this massive law enforcement agency." — Narrator [26:26]
  • The future of immigration enforcement under Mullen is expected to mirror Noem’s, but with greater discipline.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | [02:00] | Hamid Ali Aziz | “The entire premise of the second term Trump cabinet was that it was kind of unfirable…” | | [10:20] | Kristi Noem | “This individual…committed an act of domestic terrorism. That’s the facts.” | | [12:37] | Narrator | “He is really, in many ways, this incredibly powerful figure across DHS…” (on Lewandowski) | | [17:59] | Rep. Kamlager-Dove | “At any time during your tenure…have you had sexual relations with Corey Lewandowski?” | | [19:38] | Sen. Kennedy | “What we’ve seen is a disaster under your leadership, Ms. Noem. A disaster.” | | [21:22] | Sen. Kennedy | “It puts the President in a terribly awkward spot…hard for me to believe…he would have agreed to that.” | | [23:02] | Hamid Ali Aziz | “What really cost her her job was invoking Trump’s name as she sought to defend...wasteful and self-promotional [ads].” | | [26:26] | Narrator | “He’s somebody who doesn’t shy away from a fight…perhaps wants that from someone who’s leading this massive law enforcement agency.” |

---

Important Timestamps

• [00:26] — Episode introduction and shocking news of Noem’s firing
• [03:37] — Noem’s selection and background
• [05:43] — Public stances and performances as DHS Secretary
• [09:44] — Intensification of scandals; Minneapolis shooting
• [11:49] — Noem sidelined and Wall Street Journal exposé
• [14:44 & 16:44] — Congressional testimony and bipartisan grilling
• [21:14] — Fatal mistake: linking Trump to ad expenditures
• [22:34-23:45] — Trump’s public denial and Noem’s ouster
• [24:44] — Appointment of Markwayne Mullen as successor
• [28:13-29:12] — Democratic response and insistence on accountability

---

Conclusion

The episode illustrates how even in a supposedly “stable” and loyalist Cabinet, personal ambition, missteps under public scrutiny, and a single moment of disloyalty can topple a political figure. Noem’s story is both a cautionary tale of personal hubris and a revealing case study in the Trump administration’s approach to power, image, and internal loyalty. The appointment of a similarly hardline successor signals Trump’s policies remain unchanged, while Noem’s spectacular fall continues to reverberate on Capitol Hill.

---

Transcript

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[Michael Barbaro]

From the New York Times, I'm Michael Balbaro. This is the Daily. On Thursday afternoon, President Trump fired his secretary of homeland security, Kristi Ngo, ousting the leader of an agency at the center of his second term agenda. Today, my colleague Hamid Ali Aziz, on how Noem, who did everything possible to ingratiate herself with Trump, ended up losing his trust.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

It's Friday, march 6th. Good evening.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Good evening.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

I just want to be candid. This was not our plan for Friday's episode of the Daily, but it is a seismic development for this administration, and we felt we had to cover it.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, Kristi Noem was the face of President Trump's aggressive crackdown on immigrants across the United States. She was unapologetic, and President Trump backed her over and over again after all the controversies she faced over the last six months. And then really abruptly, President Trump notifies her just, you know, moments before she gives a speech to folks on law enforcement, she's fired.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

Right. And the other reason why this felt so enormous is that the entire premise of the second term Trump cabinet was that it was kind of unfirable in theory. In Trump's first term, he fired people left and right because he had picked in his mind all the wrong people. But the second term was this huge corrective, and he was only gonna pick ideologically aligned cabinet members who were not gonna push back or were gonna do exactly what he wanted. And he wouldn't fire people even if they got into pretty serious trouble. That was really the case until Noem, who becomes the very first cabinet secretary to be fired in the second term.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah, I mean, it became pretty clear that Trump was trying to give off this appearance of stability and the fact that they had everything under control. And Kristi Noem really was among the most loyal of his cabinet secretaries. I mean, she really put President Trump at the center of whatever she did. She was always talking about President Trump and fulfilling President Trump's promises. And ultimately, it felt like that almost made her somewhat invincible to firing.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

Right. Until now. So let's tell the story of how she became no longer invincible despite doing what seemed month after month, like, exactly what it was Trump wanted her to do. And celebrating Trump the whole way, you

[Narrator/Reporter]

know, it was surprising that President Trump selected her. The DHS secretary role really is perhaps the biggest role for his biggest promise. Right. The promise of mass deportations. You need somebody in place to carry through a really ambitious and difficult operation. And the selection of Kristi Noem was a surprise because on the national level, she was primarily known for writing a memoir in which she admitted to shooting her own dog that she felt like was misbehaving.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

Right.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And of course, she was the governor of South Dakota. She'd been a congresswoman as well. But President Trump, he decides that she is the right person to run this massive agency and in many ways takes her from political irrelevance to the biggest story of 2025.

[Kristi Noem]

And first of all, I want to thank El Salvador and their president for their partnership with the United States of America.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And right away, she embraces this idea of being out there here at CECOT

[Kristi Noem]

today and visiting this facility, going to

[Narrator/Reporter]

El Salvador where, you know, she's filming a spot in front of shirtless prisoners.

[Kristi Noem]

First of all, do not come to our country illegally. You will be removed and you will

[Narrator/Reporter]

be prosecuted, saying to undocumented immigrants that you could end up here if we catch you.

[Kristi Noem]

But know that this facility is one of the tools in our toolkit that we will use if you commit crimes against the American people.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

And we should say she's standing in front of a prison that we've reported on where people, including those who were in the United States, claim to have been tortured and sexually abused.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah, exactly. And this comes right at that time last spring, as the Trump administration is really unleashing DHS on immigrant communities across this country. There's Christine Ohm.

[Kristi Noem]

We are in New York City this morning. We are getting the dirtbags off these streets.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She's standing alongside these ICE officers and she's got the tactical ICE vest on. She's at times holding weaponry.

[Senator Kennedy]

We'll go.

[Kristi Noem]

You're going to go. You're going to go home and you're going to get prosecuted.

[Narrator/Reporter]

You know, she is not a law enforcement officer going inside to the homes where people are being arrested as if she's part of the operation.

[Kristi Noem]

Do you know why we're here today?

[Senator Kennedy]

Right.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

She wants it to be known that she is at the tip of the spear of these enforcement actions. She's on the front line. She is becoming, it seems like, quite proudly synonymous with them. Yeah.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It felt like she wanted to be at the center of this story. You know, she wanted to be on Fox News, on these conservative news outlets, day after day, spreading this message that I'm the one that's going to carry through President Trump's biggest promise. But really, her effort to put herself at the center of the Trump administration's deportation campaign put her down a path that ultimately haunted her. And really, the thing that you can point to is that she stars in these ads.

[Kristi Noem]

I'm Kristi Noem. From the cowboys who tamed the west to the titans who built our cities

[Narrator/Reporter]

in which she's riding on horseback, she's wearing a cowboy hat.

[Kristi Noem]

America has always rewarded vision and grit. Our greatness calls people to us for a chance to prosper.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She's almost giving a speech about the greatness of America.

[Kristi Noem]

Anyone who searches for freedom can always find a home here. But that freedom's a precious thing and we defend it vigorously.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And then warning individuals who are in the country illegally, you cross the border

[Kristi Noem]

illegally, we'll find you.

[Narrator/Reporter]

That DHS will come and find them.

[Kristi Noem]

But if you come here the right way, your American dream can be as big as these endless skies. From President Trump and me. Welcome home.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And it's not just that ad.

[Kristi Noem]

If you are here illegally, you're next.

[Narrator/Reporter]

There are other ads as well.

[Kristi Noem]

President Trump has a clear message for those that are in our country illegally. Leave now. Leave now.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Under President where she's encouraging immigrants to self deport.

[Kristi Noem]

The choice is yours. America welcomes those who respect our laws because a strong nation is a safe nation.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And these ads which are playing on TV, they're everywhere. ProPublica late last year reports that that they cost the American taxpayer $200 million. I think that really started to concern some lawmakers and some folks that perhaps this whole effort of her being DHS secretary was really just to further her own political ambitions.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

And of course, as that's happening, the enforcement actions of the agents she's overseeing at the Department of Homeland Security become themself deeply polarizing. How does that start to factor into what will come to haunt her?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah, you know, you see over the last half year, DHS agents chasing people in Home Depot parking lots, in car washes, allegations of racial profiling, US Citizens swept up. And even all throughout this bad imagery that even some of the President Trump's supporters, including Joe Rogan, call out repeatedly, Trump stands by her.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

Right.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And then you get to Minneapolis, and Minneapolis really is where things start to fall apart for her. There's the shooting of Alex Spready in which agents tackle him to the ground and then shoot him.

[Kristi Noem]

Good evening, everyone. Thank you for being here. There are two different things that I,

[Narrator/Reporter]

Kristi Noem, hours after the shooting, I

[Kristi Noem]

do want to address the tragic situation that we saw in Minneapolis today that unfolded on the streets.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She goes further than even the agency had in their own statement, which had raised some questions.

[Kristi Noem]

This individual, who came with weapons and ammunition to stop a law enforcement operation of federal law enforcement officers, committed an act of domestic terrorism. That's the facts.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She starts saying that, you know, he's a domestic terrorist, he attacked the officers at the scene, says things that turn

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

out not to be true.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Exactly. And, you know, in many ways, people question her credibility right at this really key juncture where Minneapolis is teetering, where two American citizens at this point have been shot dead, protests are raging. There are hundreds of DHS agents on the streets of Minneapolis. It's a critical moment, and Noam is just not able to handle it without saying something that is pretty clearly inaccurate at that time. And President Trump doesn't fire her. He doesn't get rid of her, but it is an acknowledgement that she did not handle it well. When he brings in Tom Homan, his borders are to take over Minneapolis, and tells him to calm the situation down, that is something that never happens where a DHS secretary, the person in charge of these immigration operations, is put to the side for a White House official and told, you don't need to take care of this anymore.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

Right. She's getting layered, which, when you're a Cabinet secretary, there really shouldn't be any layers between you and the president. And then things get worse for Secretary Noem, courtesy, as I recall it, of our colleagues at the Wall Street Journal.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah, it really just as Tom Homan is starting to quiet the situation down in Minneapolis, this story lands from the Journal, which gets into some of the sordid details of Kristi Noem and her relationship to her senior advisor, Corey Lewandowski, a former Trump campaign official, a controversial figure in his own right. And Lewandowski is a special government employee, and he's this kind of shadowy figure who is everywhere with Kristi Noem. He is the person who is yelling at ICE officials for not doing enough on arrests and deportations. He is really, in many ways, this incredibly powerful figure across dhs, in particular at ice. And ultimately, again, he is not a DHS employee. He is a special government employee, just like Elon Musk was when he started DOGE last year.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

So he really, in theory, should not, not have the authority that this Journal reporting suggests. That he has inside the Department of Homeland Security.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah, exactly. And he's essentially running this agency alongside Noem, having unlimited power to do whatever they wanted to do, firing pilots, issuing polygraphs.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

Wow.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The idea of polygraphing people left and right really concerns a lot of people who are working pretty hard to carry through on this really difficult task of deportations and arrests. So this story really got the heart of the kind of drama and the situation at the top of the agency. And I think crucially, also really kind of heavily insinuated that Lewandowski and Noem, both of whom are married, were having an affair, which obviously has some major complications given the fact that they were essentially running the agency together.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

And yet, despite this Journal reporting, Trump does not act.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He doesn't. But Noem ultimately has to go to Capitol Hill for a pair of hearings in which congressional officials bring up all of these allegations, all of these exploits. And her response, her reaction and how she handled that situation. It was a disaster and really sealed their fate.

[Michael Barbaro]

We'll be right back.

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[Michael Barbaro]

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[Hamid Ali Aziz]

The New York Times app has all this stuff that you may not have seen.

[Capital One Advertiser]

The way the tabs are at the top with all of the different sections,

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

I can immediately navigate to something that matches what I'm feeling.

[Senator Kennedy]

I go to games always doing the

[Congressional Member/Interviewer]

mini, doing the wordle.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

I loved how much content it exposed

[Kristi Noem]

me to things that I never would

[Narrator/Reporter]

have thought to turn to a news

[Michael Barbaro]

app for this app is essential.

[Kristi Noem]

The New York Times app. All of the Times all in one place.

[Capital One Advertiser]

Download it [e-mail] Apple

[Senator Kennedy]

Obviously there's a

[Congressional Member/Interviewer]

lot of interest in this hearing. I thank the secretary for coming.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

So, Hamid, tell us about this disastrous testimony that Kristi Noem delivers before Congress that really does become her undoing.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah. It feels like the culmination of everything that's happened over this past year, where all of her potential embarrassments come to Capitol Hill.

[Congressional Member/Interviewer]

Secretary Noem, we're glad to meet you.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Even though it's been 13 months since

[Congressional Member/Interviewer]

you took office and more than five weeks since two American citizens were shot dead in Minneapolis.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And Democrats are incredibly aggressive. Can you explain why you decided to brand these victims who were out protesting the activities of your agency and were killed as a result of it? How did you think that calling them domestic terrorists was somehow going to calm the situation? Bringing up all of her previous comments in Minneapolis, that we continue to deliver information, is it so hard to say you were wrong? And even beyond that, they get quite personal. There are some pretty notable exchanges with Congresswoman Kamlaker Dove.

[Kristi Noem]

So, Secretary Noem, at any time during your tenure as director of Department of Homeland Security, have you had sexual relations

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

with Corey Lewandowski, who really directly asks

[Narrator/Reporter]

her about her relationship with Lewandowski?

[Kristi Noem]

Mr. Chairman, I am shocked that we're going down and peddling tabloid garbage in this committee today.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And she doesn't really answer the question.

[Kristi Noem]

And you should be able to answer the question. What we do at the Department of Homelessness nearly every and without any hesitation every single day is to protect his family. If someone is asked you or any federal official is sleeping with their subordinate, that should be the easiest. You should be wanting to answer that question.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But the real surprise with these hearings was that Republicans like Thom Tillis, like Senator Kennedy from Louisiana, they're starting to point some really intense questioning of Kristi Noem.

[Congressional Member/Interviewer]

Know that we'll have time for you to respond because I'm giving you a performance evaluation here. I'm not looking for a response.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He is incredibly frustrated and angry.

[Congressional Member/Interviewer]

What we've seen is innocent people getting detained that turn out are American citizens.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He feels unencumbered.

[Congressional Member/Interviewer]

We just want numbers. We want a thousand a day, 6,000 a day, 9,000 a day. Because numbers matter, right? No, they don't matter. Quality matters. Not quantity.

[Senator Kennedy]

Quality.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He's almost giving off this really intense disappointment of her tenure at the Department of Homeland Security.

[Congressional Member/Interviewer]

What we've seen is a disaster under your leadership, Ms. Noem. A disaster.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

Right. Even disgust.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah. He is just pissed off.

[Senator Kennedy]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And then thank you, Madam Secretary, for being here.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Here comes Kennedy, somebody who is a staunch supporter of the Trump administration.

[Senator Kennedy]

Properly vetting people at the southern border is not racist, is it? No.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Somebody who you would expect easier questions to come from.

[Senator Kennedy]

Could you answer for the record no,

[Kristi Noem]

it is not racist.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But right as he starts going, I

[Senator Kennedy]

believe you have a policy, Madam Secretary, that, that you have to approve all contracts at your department.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Is really getting into detailed questions about what was happening at her department.

[Senator Kennedy]

How do you square that concern for waste, which I share with the fact that you have spent $220 million running television advertisements that feature you prominently.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He is questioning her about this ad campaign and all the money that's spent there.

[Kristi Noem]

We went through the legal processes. Did it. Correct. Did the President work with omb?

[Senator Kennedy]

Yes, he did.

[Kristi Noem]

Yes.

[Senator Kennedy]

Okay.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And pushing her on whether or not the President was approving this type of massive expenditure.

[Senator Kennedy]

I mean, to me, it puts the President in a terribly awkward spot. And it. And I just, I'm not saying you're not telling the truth. It's just hard for me to believe, knowing the President, that he would have agreed to that.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And again, this is a moment where Noem, somewhat like Minneapolis, starts to dig her own grave by saying, yes, the President did approve this.

[Kristi Noem]

And one thing, Senator, I think would be helpful to know is how effective that communications has been that overwhelming effective

[Senator Kennedy]

in your name recognition. I mean.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And ultimately his line of questioning is really quite effective because President Trump gets wind of her comment and is asked on the record by Reuters whether or not he did in fact approve this spending, like Kristi Noem said he did. And he says, no, I didn't approve that. Kennedy himself says that when he spoke with President Trump, he was, I believe he said, mad as a hornet.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

Right. I mean, basically the President is calling his DHS secretary a liar.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah. And a few hours later, she's fired from her job as secretary and Trump announces that he's given her this previously non existent job as the special envoy for the Shield of America's, a job that nobody had ever heard of before. And something that is really mocked as it gets announced.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

You know, that sequence of events certainly suggests to me that while Trump's dismay with Noem has perhaps been building for some time for a variety of reasons, in the end, what really cost her her job was invoking Trump's name as she sought to defend something that people in both parties regard as kind of wasteful and self promotional, these $200 million ads. And I wonder if that's the way you see it, that she kind of violated the President's golden rule, which is don't throw me under the bus.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah, it's really this moment where Kennedy is asking this question of Noem and what Trump knew, where Noem connects Trump to this idea of wasteful spending. And he doesn't wanna be connected to this, and he doesn't wanna be used as the just. And the excuse for this massive amount of money spent on her ad campaign. This aggressive immigration approach is ultimately not what got Christine Elm fired. It's really what happened with some of these stories connecting her to the spending and her performance on the Hill. I mean, the President wants people to be good on tv, and in this moment, it was, I think, really seen as an embarrassment and a joke. I don't think President Trump wanted to deal with that any longer.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

Well, if this is not a larger change of course for the Department of Homeland Security and its approach to immigration, I think we should talk about the person Trump has picked to replace Noem and run the department, Senator Markwain Mullen of Oklahoma. What should we know about him, and how much is he basically just gonna keep the existing approach that Noem did with perhaps more restraint in his testimony before Congress?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Mullen is somebody, like many Republican politicians, he is somebody who supports President Trump's deportation agenda. He has been very vocal about backing the ideas of a more aggressive dhs. But I think, you know, somewhat more to the point, he's this big guy, an ex MMA fighter. And for many Americans, their first experience with him was when he challenged the head of the Teamsters Union to a fight in this incredibly viral video.

[Senator Kennedy]

Sir, this is a time. This is a place if you want to run your mouth. We can be two consenting adults. We can finish it here.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Okay, that's fine. Perfect.

[Senator Kennedy]

You want to do it now?

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

I'd love to do it right now.

[Senator Kennedy]

Well, stand your butt up, then.

[Narrator/Reporter]

You stand your butt up.

[Senator Kennedy]

Oh, hold it.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Stop it. Is that your solution? Every.

[Capital One Advertiser]

No, no.

[A.G. Sulzberger]

Sit down.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

During a hearing before Congress.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah, during a hearing before Congress. No, I have the. I'm sorry.

[Senator Kennedy]

This is what he said.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Can I respond? Oh, no, you can't.

[Senator Kennedy]

This is a hearing.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And God knows the American people have enough of contempt for Congress.

[Senator Kennedy]

Let's not drugs. And that's. I don't like you.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He's somebody who doesn't shy away from a fight. He's willing to go back and forth with reporters, with other politicians, and I think Trump likes that, and he perhaps wants that from someone who's leading this massive law enforcement agency.

[Senator Kennedy]

Right.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

So overall, Mullen is a stick to your guns kind of appointment over at dhs. And rather than this being a referendum on the ways in which immigration enforcement under Noem has worked, this really, at the end of the day, is only a referendum on Kristi Noem herself?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah, I think so. And I think perhaps there is some expectation that without some of this drama, without some of these scandals, that maybe Mullen can be more effective in following through with this deportation agenda. Really? In the face of all this polling that shows that Americans are starting to get disgusted by what they're seeing on the streets, Trump hasn't backed away from any of that.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

Right.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So it's going to be on Mullen to pick this up and see this aggressive and at times unpopular campaign through for its next chapter.

[Hamid Ali Aziz]

Mohamed, thank you very much.

[Michael Barbaro]

Appreciate it.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Thank you for having me.

[Michael Barbaro]

On Thursday afternoon, Democrats in Congress said that Noem's firing would not change their plans to keep the Homeland Security Department defunded until they see major reforms across the agency.

[Congressional Member/Interviewer]

Meanwhile, hey, Kristi Noem, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Michael Barbaro]

Several of the party's leaders openly celebrated Noem's ouster. Governor J.B. pritzker of Illinois, allowed critic of Noem's immigration tactics in his state, warned Noam that leaving the job would not absolve her from blame.

[Congressional Member/Interviewer]

Here's your legacy. Corruption and chaos. Parents and children, tear gassed moms and nurses. US Citizens getting shot in the face. Now that you're gone, don't think you get to just walk away. I guarantee you, you will still be held accountable.

[Michael Barbaro]

We'll be right back.

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This podcast is supported by the Capital One Venture X Card. Venture X offers the premium benefits you expect, like a $300 annual Capital One travel credit for less than you expect. Elevate your earn with unlimited double miles on every purchase, bringing you one step closer to your next dream destination. Plus, enjoy access to over 1,000 airport lounges worldwide. The Capital One Venture X card. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. Lounge access is subject to change. See capitalone.com for details.

[A.G. Sulzberger]

This is A.G. sulzberger. I'm the publisher of the New York Times. I oversee our news operations and our business. But I'm also a former reporter who has watched with a lot of alarm as our profession has shrunk and shrunk in recent years. Normally in these ads, we talk about the importance of subscribing to the Times. I'm here today with a different message. I'm encouraging you to support any news organization that's dedicated to original reporting. If that's your local newspaper, terrific. Local newspapers in particular need your support. If that's another national newspaper, that's great, too. And if it's the New York Times, we'll use that money to send reporters out to find the facts and context that you'll never get from AI. That's it. Not asking you to click on any link, just subscribe to a real news organization with real journalists doing firsthand fact based reporting. And if you already do, thank you.

[Michael Barbaro]

Here's what else you need to know today. On Thursday afternoon, the U.S. house of Representatives blocked a bipartisan measure that sought to rein in President Trump's ability to continue the war in Iran without congressional approval. Because the US Senate had blocked a similar measure a day earlier, Trump now faces no constraints on his ability to wage the war in Europe. Britain and Italy accelerated their deployment of military equipment and personnel to protect their citizens and infrastructure in the Middle east as the war continued to spill out beyond the region. For many European governments, the deployments are occurring despite their skepticism of the war

[Narrator/Reporter]

while the region has been plunged into chaos. My focus is providing calm, level headed

[Michael Barbaro]

leadership in the national interest during a news conference on Thursday. On Tuesday, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer reaffirmed his decision not to participate in the attack against Iran, even if it upsets the United States and it means

[Narrator/Reporter]

having the strength to stand firm by our values and our principles, no matter

[Congressional Member/Interviewer]

the pressure to do otherwise.

[Michael Barbaro]

Meanwhile, the fighting raged on. The US Military said it was finding and destroying Iran's mobile missile launchers while Iran struck pro American Kurdish forces in Iraq, who are seen as allies in America's plan to overthrow the Iranian regime. Finally, Iran's foreign minister accused the US of committing a, quote, atrocious atrocity at war by sinking an Iranian warship off the coast of Sri Lanka on Wednesday and killing many of the sailors on board. The ship was thousands of miles away from the conflict when it was struck. Today's episode was produced by Olivia Natt, Carlos Prieto and Caitlin o'.

[Capital One Advertiser]

Keefe.

[Michael Barbaro]

It was edited by Rachel Quester and Maria Byrne. Contains music by Marion Lozano, Elisheba Itube, Rowani Misto and Diane Wong. Our theme music is by Wonderly. This episode was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. That's it for the daily I'm michael bavar. See you on Sunday.

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Brought to you by the Capital One Savor card. With Savor, you earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining, entertainment and at grocery stores. That's unlimited cash back on ordering takeout from home or unlimited cash back on tickets to concerts and games. So grab a bite, grab a seat and earn unlimited 3% cash back with the saver card. Capital One what's in your wallet? Terms apply see capitalone.com for details.