'The Interview': Bill Murray Says He's Not the Man He Used to Be

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Interview": Bill Murray Says He's Not the Man He Used to Be

Episode Title: "The Interview": Bill Murray Says He's Not the Man He Used to Be
Podcast: The Daily
Host: David Marchese
Release Date: April 5, 2025
Duration: Approximately 52 minutes

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Daily, hosted by David Marchese, listeners are invited into an intimate conversation with the legendary actor Bill Murray. The episode delves deep into Murray's latest film, personal growth, and the complexities of his off-screen life. Skipping the initial advertisements and introductions, the focus swiftly shifts to the heart of the discussion: Bill Murray's evolution both as an actor and an individual.

Exploring "The Friend"

The conversation begins with an overview of Murray's new movie, "The Friend," adapted from Sigrid Nunez's acclaimed novel. Murray portrays Walter, a charismatic yet flawed character who entrusts his Great Dane to his friend Iris, played by Naomi Watts. Marchese sets the stage by highlighting the dichotomy in Murray’s recent roles—charismatic yet self-centered characters who often leave a trail of emotional upheaval.

[00:38] David Marchese: "...Walter is funny and charismatic, but he's also kind of a jerk. He's resentful and self-centered and he's caused some real damage."

Marchese draws parallels between Murray's past iconic roles, like Peter Venkman in Ghostbusters and Phil Connors in Groundhog Day, suggesting a karmic resonance in Murray's late-career characters.

Bill Murray’s On-Screen and Off-Screen Persona

The discussion shifts to the controversies surrounding Murray, notably the 2022 incident on the set of Being Mortal, where he was accused of inappropriate behavior. This moment marks a significant point in Murray's life, reflecting the tension between his beloved status and the damage reported by colleagues.

[02:46] Bill Murray: "I don't go too many days or weeks without thinking of what happened on Being Mortal."

Murray's interactions with industry peers such as Geena Davis, Lucy Liu, and Richard Dreyfuss are also touched upon, painting a picture of a complex individual navigating fame and personal accountability.

Interview Dynamics and Working with Non-Human Actors

As the interview commences, Murray exhibits his trademark humor and laid-back demeanor. The conversation about the TV show "The Doggest" serves as a segue into Murray's experiences working with animals on set.

[06:06] Bill Murray: "He is a striking dog. He's £150, he's a great Dane... he's the most capable dog."

Murray reminisces about his experiences with non-human actors, including an emotional account of working with an elephant co-star:

[07:36] Bill Murray: "I always say it's the only co-star I ever cried over when I left. She was extraordinary and incredibly intelligent."

Artistry: Presence and Improvisation

A significant portion of the interview centers on Murray's philosophy of presence both in his personal life and his craft. He emphasizes the importance of being authentic and present in each moment, whether acting or engaging with life.

[13:50] Bill Murray: "I think it's absolutely the same game. ... my job is a strong reminder of that being present thing."

Murray reflects on his improvisational skills, acknowledging they are not his strongest suit but crucial to his acting approach.

[11:39] Bill Murray: "I am not the best improviser... but I could do something."

Personal Growth and Reflections on Fame

Murray opens up about his upbringing, the loss of his father at 17, and how these experiences shaped his drive and resilience. He discusses the challenges of anonymity and the continuous process of managing fame in New York City.

[44:41] David Marchese: "What you just described the inability to walk down the street anonymously. How did you figure out how to manage that in a way that didn't make your life feel impossible?"

[44:54] Bill Murray: "It's a continuous process. It's not like, oh, I figured that one out."

Murray candidly addresses the often unrepresentative nature of public perceptions, emphasizing that his off-screen persona differs significantly from the few negative anecdotes that surface.

[43:37] Bill Murray: "... I deal, you know. ... I'm not the same person now that I was 20 minutes ago."

Confronting the Past: The "Being Mortal" Incident

The conversation takes a poignant turn as Murray discusses the aftermath of the Being Mortal incident. He expresses regret and reflects on the impact it has had on his life and career.

[36:46] David Marchese: "There are all these urban legend stories... Did you stop doing that sort of stuff?"

[36:53] Bill Murray: "... it was funny. I was wearing a mask and I gave her a kiss through a mask. ... It was something that I had done to someone else before. And I thought it was funny."

[38:53] Bill Murray: "You can teach an old dog new tricks, but I... I just thought it was a disappointment."

Murray critiques the arbitration process and expresses his frustration with the lack of meaningful conversation post-incident.

[38:48] David Marchese: "Do you feel like you learned something from that experience?"

[38:53] Bill Murray: "... I just thought it was a great disappointment because I thought I knew someone and I did not."

Philosophical Underpinnings and the Quest for Fulfillment

As the interview draws toward its conclusion, Murray engages in a philosophical exchange about fulfillment and self-awareness. He touches on themes from The Friend and reflects on what he has yet to achieve and what he has gained.

[50:19] Bill Murray: "I haven't gotten where I'm active all the time... I haven't gotten there."

[51:41] David Marchese: "You feel one coming on."

[51:45] Bill Murray: "This is a rally."

Conclusion

David Marchese wraps up the interview by highlighting Murray's introspective journey and the ongoing process of self-improvement. The episode culminates with Murray acknowledging the continuous nature of personal growth and the importance of staying present.

[51:50] Bill Murray: "Thank you. This has been a nice time here."

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Daily offers a multifaceted exploration of Bill Murray’s life and career. From his latest cinematic endeavors to confronting personal missteps, Murray presents a candid and reflective narrative. The conversation underscores the complexities of maintaining authenticity amidst fame and the relentless pursuit of personal and professional growth.

Notable Quotes:

• [06:06] Bill Murray: "He is a striking dog. He's £150, he's a great Dane... he's magnificent."
• [07:36] Bill Murray: "I gave her a bath with a hose and I cried like a baby because she was the most beautiful co-star I ever had."
• [13:50] Bill Murray: "I think it's absolutely the same game... my job is a strong reminder of that being present thing."
• [36:53] Bill Murray: "I was wearing a mask and I gave her a kiss through a mask. ... It was something that I had done to someone else before. And I thought it was funny."
• [38:53] Bill Murray: "You can teach an old dog new tricks, but I... I just thought it was a disappointment."
• [51:45] Bill Murray: "This is a rally."

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For those who haven't listened to this episode, the in-depth conversation provides valuable insights into Bill Murray's personal reflections and professional ethos, making it a must-listen for fans and admirers alike.

Transcript

[David Marchese]

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[David Marchese]

From the New York Times, this is the interview I'm David Marchese. In Bill Murray's new movie the Friend, which is based on a great novel by Sigrid Nunez, he plays Walter, Walter's best friends with Iris, played by Naomi Watts. Through a surprising course of events, Iris winds up having to take in Walter's Great Dane. And by the way, Iris lives alone in a modest apartment in Manhattan. So not exactly ideal for a dog the size of a small horse. And not exactly nice of Walter. Like so many of Murray's late career characters, Walter is funny and charismatic, but he's also kind of a jerk. He's resentful and self centered and he's caused some real damage. Now, I'm a huge Bill Murray fan, and I sometimes imagine those more recent roles as kind of like alternate world versions of the comedy characters that made him a superstar, because Peter Venkman in Ghostbusters or Phil Connors in Groundhog Day depict just two examples. They could be selfish and even cruel, but in the end, they always get away with it. Maybe this is a little too much cosmic thinking on my part, but it's almost as if latter day Bill Murray characters are suffering the karmic payback owed to his earlier ones. That tension between being beloved and leaving damage behind him is something that's come up in Murray's off screen life too. Just a few Years ago, in 2022, he was alleged to have behaved inappropriately with a female staff member on the set of the film Being Mortal. She said that he straddled her and kissed her through masks, which they were both wearing as part of COVID protocols. The production was shut down and eventually they reached a settlement. And further back, directors and co stars like Geena Davis, Lucy Liu, Richard Dreyfuss and Harold Ramis have said Murray was, to put it lightly, not always the easiest to work with. So how do all these sides of Bill Murray fit together? Well, at a hotel in Manhattan, accompanied by my producer Annabelle and a publicist named Charlie, I got a chance to find out here's my interview with Bill Murray.

[Bill Murray]

Hi, are you Dave?

[David Marchese]

I'm David.

[Bill Murray]

I'm Bill. How are you?

[David Marchese]

I'm good, thank you.

[Bill Murray]

Okay. You know this going to last 60 to 90 minutes?

[David Marchese]

I did, yeah.

[Bill Murray]

Hi, Annabelle, I'm Bill. Are we on TV or is it just talking? Just talking. Oh, good. I've got a copy for you. All right. You guys want anything? They ask you if you want a cocktail? Do you want a cocktail? Yes, it is.

[David Marchese]

Please have a seat and I will just adjust this to.

[Bill Murray]

We were just on the Doggest.

[David Marchese]

Oh, I. I don't know about that.

[Bill Murray]

I didn't either until this week, which is a. I don't know if it's a podcast, a TV show or a scam, but there's a guy that walks around with a. With a TV cameras and takes pictures of dogs on the street and films it and says, can I take a picture of your dog? And starts talking to the dog owner and gets all this information and all this life about people on the street and their dog and how they live with their dog and what kind of dog it is.

[David Marchese]

That seems nice.

[Bill Murray]

Yeah, it was pretty cool, actually.

[David Marchese]

Would it be helpful if I gave you a little spiel at the beginning? Like about what we're doing? Do you feel like you need some.

[Bill Murray]

A spiel?

[David Marchese]

A spiel, sure.

[Bill Murray]

Give me a spiel.

[David Marchese]

So this is for the New York Times, where we have a recurring interview feature we call the Interview. And I know you're doing this at the end of a long, tiring, probably kind of tedious day, so I appreciate that you're doing it.

[Bill Murray]

It's okay. I can do it. I mean, we're just talking. It's not like I got to work. I don't have to get particularly dressed up. I'm sorry, what. What's your name? Annabelle. Annabelle. I'm sorry, I'm bad on names.

[David Marchese]

That's all right.

[Bill Murray]

Okay. You don't want. You don't want like cookies or anything like that?

[David Marchese]

Do you want a drink? Would you be more comfortable?

[Bill Murray]

No, no. Would you like a drink?

[David Marchese]

You know, I kind of. But I don't want to bother anyone.

[Bill Murray]

Hey, Charlie, what kind of drink do you like to have at this time of year? Why not? It's just we. 3, 4. But we can make Charlie drink too.

[David Marchese]

Maybe like an Old Fashioned.

[Bill Murray]

That's my second. If he can make a lion's tail. Is it a real bartender kind of guy? We don't know. I'll take an Old Fashioned after. If he can't make a Lion's tail just because that's my name. Yeah, it's a bourbon drink also. So we're gonna be in the same ballpark.

[David Marchese]

All right, perfect. Annabelle, are we ready to start? First, can you tell me what's in a lion's tail? We just ordered drinks.

[Bill Murray]

It has simple syrup. Least important, it has lime, it has Jamaican dram, and it has bourbon. And it's cold. I make it cold.

[David Marchese]

Sounds good.

[Bill Murray]

It's tasty.

[David Marchese]

You know, at the Times earlier today, your co star in the Friend, the dog was in the building getting its photo taken. Yeah.

[Bill Murray]

Well, it's a striking. He is a striking dog. He's £150, he's a great Dane. His name is Bing Bing. And he lives In Iowa, about 40, 40 miles from Des Moines. And after a nationwide search, he was chosen as the dog of the moment. He was not wearing a tight sweater or anything. He was just the most capable dog. He was an extremely well trained dog and beautiful to look at, of course, and he's magnificent.

[David Marchese]

I think you only have one or maybe two scenes with Bing in the movie. Right. But I felt like even in that brief time on screen, it looked to me like you kind of got a kick out of the dog. And in a weird way it reminded me of Bear With Me of Larger than Life, the movie in which you co starred with an elephant in the. Not to insult children, but I then watched rewatched. What About Bob? And there's a dinner scene and it looks like you're just enjoying making the kids laugh. And it made me wonder what's fun about working with sort of non professional actors or unseasoned actors.

[Bill Murray]

Okay, that's a good hard question. And I gotta drink a little coffee before I try to answer that. Let's see. Well, the elephant and the dog are unusual in that they're consistent, they have their nature, and that is it. They're in their nature all the time. So the elephant I had an extraordinary time with. And I always say it's the only co star I ever cried over when I left. You know, I gave her a bath with a hose and I cried like a baby because she was the most beautiful coaster I ever had, the smartest co star I ever had and the only one I miss. You know, she was extraordinary and incredibly intelligent.

[David Marchese]

Unbelievably, you could sense the intelligence.

[Bill Murray]

Absolutely, absolutely. Where you kind of go like, oh, this, the one on four legs is ahead of me. So that's a challenge to show up. You know, every time you. I'd look at that animal, I. I would be reminded, like, well, ties being tied. Why don't you try and be Bill and see if you could get it going. Let's go. So that's. That was. It was like that with. With her and with. With the dog. With Bing. The same thing. If something happened to you, if something actually occurred to you and it happens in the movie where things happen, scenes take place, and you see the dog react to it. And I kept. When I first saw the. The first cut of it, I said, are you kidding? Is this dog like Stanislavski? How the hell is this dog doing this? It was crazy. The dog actually. Come on in. It's an emergency. So.

[David Marchese]

Oh, boy.

[Bill Murray]

It was kind of. It was fun for me to be meeting the dog because I was really meeting the dog. So I was being authentic anyway. I wasn't being like, trying to be a certain way to get the dog to behave a certain way. I was actually meeting the dog. Well, cheers.

[David Marchese]

Cheers. We just have some drinks here and hope our bosses don't care about this. Wait, can I ask it maybe a bit of a question that comes at kind of an angle to what we were just talking about. But when you're talking about Bing and the elephant whose name was Ty. Ty. And how they play the scene and how they're sort of consistent. When you are in a scene with a human, are you also looking for consistency from the person in that scene? Or what are you looking for?

[Bill Murray]

No, I know that sounds like. How could you like it in an animal and not human? My greatest fear, or one thing I try to not exactly forbid, but try to avoid, is in a movie, you do a bunch of takes, you try it a few times, and you do it differently because either you didn't like it or there was a mistake, made an error. The cameraman must change the light, something different. You do it. Sometimes you get. Do it just to get into the feel of it. Takes you a few to get going. And I feel like the way I sort of was taught or educated as an actor was there's a sense of play, you know, and you can't possibly recreate that moment that just happened a minute ago. Why try? So I'm puzzled by people that wish to recreate that performance that just happened a minute ago. I want something brand new. This is the one that counts because this is the one we're in. This is where we are. I mean, I want you to show up is what I want you to. That's the consistency I want. I want you to really Be, you know, in your own skin and me and my skin. And so we're both, like, doing. Doing our best. And you're always trying to. You know, my brother Brian described it well as, like, you know, actors don't really compete. They just say, you know, that that's. Has an ugly feel to it, competing. But how about if I go here? Can you match that? And go here? And can you go here? And you keep elevating the scene, and you keep adding more. More dynamics to it, you know, more color, more energy. You know, just different kinds of energy. You just keep trying to play a game, like, and you get to a level where it's really great, you know, and then you're seeing, like, a great exchange between a couple of actors. That's.

[David Marchese]

When did you realize you were good at improvising and being in the moment?

[Bill Murray]

Well, I'm not the best improviser. I. I mean, I can do things, but there are people that. The real games of improvisation, that's. I never. I never really went as deeply into that as some people, you know, and there were people even back in Second City that were far better than I was. I was never a great improviser, but I could do something. I could do something. And I don't know what your question is anymore. I got lost. When did you realize I got lost in the tunnel. Sorry.

[David Marchese]

When did you realize you were good at.

[Bill Murray]

Oh, good. Yeah, I had a moment. I started talking about Second City because I did have a moment. Moment at Second City. I had a moment on the stage where I set a line, I spoke a line, or I played part of a scene. And at that moment, I said, that was good. That was as good as people do at that moment. I went, I could do this for a living. I knew I was good enough to do it for a living.

[David Marchese]

Do you remember what the moment was?

[Bill Murray]

Nope.

[David Marchese]

But something clicked.

[Bill Murray]

But I remember the moment. That's the key, is that. Yeah, that's when I went, okay, I can do this. Yeah, I can relax. Not relax, just relax. But I can also, like, go for it now. I can really dedicate myself to it.

[David Marchese]

And there, you know, my understanding was on Friday or something, you were in Japan for a baseball game or something.

[Bill Murray]

Well, I wasn't playing, but, yeah, I was there.

[David Marchese]

You weren't playing, you know, and now we're here in New York, and then tomorrow you're going to Austin to play with your band.

[Bill Murray]

And yesterday I was in Raleigh.

[David Marchese]

Yesterday you were in Raleigh.

[Bill Murray]

Basketball game.

[David Marchese]

Which game were you at?

[Bill Murray]

It was UConn and Florida.

[David Marchese]

Oh, hell of a game.

[Bill Murray]

Hell of a game.

[David Marchese]

Hell of a game. Florida.

[Bill Murray]

It may have been the national championship game.

[David Marchese]

Yeah. And this is all related to the idea of sort of being present and in the moment. So learning that you, Bill Murray, were just sort of gallivanting around, it fits in with this idea of you as a guy who's following his bliss, wherever that leads. What are the ways in which being present and open in life are different or similar to being present and open as a performer? Is it all the same game?

[Bill Murray]

I think it's absolutely the same game. And for me, I shouldn't say the luxury, but the bliss of it is that my job is a strong reminder of that being present thing. I can, you know, bamboozle my way through a day or miss a day or blow a day or waste a day, but when I go to work, I know that there's going to be a document that says, this is where this character was. Was he here or was he not there? And it's, and it's going to be like a deposition. You have to swear to tell the truth. The whole. Is this real? You know, this is going to be proof. It's going to be proof of how much I showed up. So that's, it's, it's kind of lucky that I have that job because I don't know how often I, I'd be doing it, you know, you, you know, you mentioned this galvanting thing, you know, and I'm very much aware of the Carly Simon song, you're so vain. Yeah. Whereas she says, you, you charted a Learjet in Nova Scotia to see the total eclipse of the sun. Someone that she's describing as like a pompous ass, you know? And I think, okay, how do you say, well, I'm going to go to Tokyo and then to Raleigh and then to New York and then to Texas and not be just like a tumbleweed. That's just like trying to, like, have all these different experiences, you know, and just. And has no ground.

[David Marchese]

So how do you do, how do you do it?

[Bill Murray]

Well, some of the things I actually have to do well, you know, some of the things I have to do well, you know, I can tell myself, okay, as long as I know that when I go here, I will really make, have. I will be forced to make an effort to show up, to, to enter, to re. Enter my body as much as possible, to be what, you know, people turn out as called present, you know, So I, I, I. So I don't feel like I Could feel like a total twit doing all those things. But if I work hard, I don't feel that way.

[David Marchese]

Did you always have the desire or maybe it's a need to have that sense of presence or is that something you consciously.

[Bill Murray]

No, I didn't always try to seek out. I didn't always have it. No, I didn't always have it.

[David Marchese]

So where does it come from?

[Bill Murray]

Not consciously. I mean, I may have wanted to sort of do. Express yourself as yourself, you know, and be sort of unique or your own thing, you know, But I never thought of. Of being, you know, sort of that way until I had a little bit more understanding about what that way might be. You know, some sort of way of living where it's not all exterior, there's interior.

[David Marchese]

I. I know a couple people who lost parents fairly early. And you lost your dad at 17, right. And I think for them, it set them on a direction, you know, where they realize there's certain things they want from life. Do you think your dad's passing put you on a particular path?

[Bill Murray]

Yeah, I do. I think I had two events in my life that was one. And the other one, which I wasn't completely aware of when I was young, was when I was about four or so. My. My younger sister contracted polio. And I wasn't kind of aware of what was happening. But all of a sudden you really become like an. Not exactly an afterthought, but you're not like the. You're not the primary worry anymore. And at that point, I was already the fifth child. So somehow some part of me realized, oh, okay, this is. Something's gotta. I. I'm kind of. I gotta really get going here. So I learned to read when I was four. I remember fighting over the comics with my brothers going, you can't even read. And then I proceeded to read all the comics to him. He was like, oh, so.

[David Marchese]

So did he give you the comics Then?

[Bill Murray]

I got the comics, yeah, but. And then. So then I became. I had to sort of like, start operating, you know, I had a great birthday when I was five. I got like, a Davy Crockett bicycle with a rifle sheath and a rifle that came with it that loaded on the frame of the bike. It had saddlebags. I got a coonskin cap. I got a Cubs jacket and a Cubs hat, a baseball and a bat. And I never had another birthday until I was 13. That was it. That was the end of that. So that was the moment where I had to do that. Then when I was 17, when my father died. That was another thing where, you know, that was like, there. There went the sort of family income. And so whatever life we were with nine kids by that point, you know, was going to be even more crimped, you know, because there just wasn't going to be, you know, kind of really money for college and things like that. And even though I was smart enough, I never studied ever, you know, couldn't make myself, so I had to sort of figure out how to get by in life, you know, so.

[David Marchese]

And there are all these urban legend stories that I'm sure you're familiar with of, you know, you showing up and playing kickball with people on Roosevelt island or, you know, commandeering a golf cart in Scandinavia somewhere, or the one there's. The one where people said you would come up behind them on the street, put your hands over their eyes, and then when they turn around, you tell them, no one will ever believe you. And I realized in preparing for this interview that those stories don't seem to pop up anymore. And I wondered if you. Did you stop doing that sort of stuff? Did you change your behavior? Did the world change and it felt less fun to do? Did it start to become the expected thing?

[Bill Murray]

That's a really good question because, you know, that sort of legend thing is now preceding me. You know, it's now all around. It's all around. And I don't know if any of these things are legendary, you know, truly legendary, but I'm probably a little bit tentative about the same nature of engagement kind of a little bit. But I don't feel like I'm afraid to go out doors. And like, there I was out in Tokyo the other night, and I thought to myself, you know, if this were America, I'd be really conscious about some, you know, idiot, like, making this a YouTube thing. But I just thought, this is really fun. I'm having fun. So it was good for me to go back to Tokyo. I hadn't been back there since I've made the movie In Tokyo, Lost the Translation. One of the reasons I went back for the baseball game was an excuse to get back. And I reconnected with some friends that I'd made back there, and I was very happy to do that.

[David Marchese]

What sort of memories kicked up for you in Tokyo?

[Bill Murray]

What kind of memories? From the old days? Yeah, you.

[David Marchese]

You obviously went back there to feel something.

[Bill Murray]

Well, I went back there and crashed into these couple of guys that. That I knew back then that were sort of the kings, the wizards of Tokyo back then and still are. They still are and still having an amazing amount of fun. And the second night I just went to the one fella's place who's kind of a like a known wizard. And.

[David Marchese]

What do you mean wizard?

[Bill Murray]

Well, I think a wizard is someone that has figured out how to transform like a moment into something bigger and larger. So just to spend four hours in this home and see all the things he had and the music that he was playing, all of it was like, what is that? What the hell is that? And then he said, oh, here's something that I sent you that was returned to me, this extraordinary book which came.

[David Marchese]

What was the book?

[Bill Murray]

It's a book of photographs. And he's a famous Japanese photographer who's now 80 some odd years old and still takes thousands of photographs. And the book, it's more than an encyclopedia. It's just this incredible document. And the fact that it got returned to him, it may have come back to him twice. It includes like a big piece of tape on it that says government sucks.

[David Marchese]

What?

[Bill Murray]

Which. So I had to carry this thing with me. He was going to ship it to me again. I said, no, no, I'll carry it. Well, anyway, I realize I'm going through customs twice, you know, theirs and ours, with this big sign on the box, it says government sucks. And I thought, well, there's a profile, you know, I might get, I might get questioned here.

[David Marchese]

Wait, I wanna ask you a couple more questions about the friend. But before I do, I wanna tell you a quick story. Your co star and the friend, she's really the star of the film Naomi Watts. Ten years ago I was supposed to do an interview with her. And I got off the train cause I was going in to do the interview and my phone buzzed and it was my wife. And she had gone into labor with our first child. So of course I just got back on the subway, went back home, furiously getting our go bag ready. And then my phone rings. It's a number I don't recognize. And I think, oh, maybe it's a doctor or something. I pick it up and I say like agitatedly, hello, Hello? And I hear, hi, this is Naomi. I don't know a Naomi. Who are you? And she said, I'm Naomi. I think we were supposed to do an interview now. And I said, oh God, I'm so sorry. And then she was so nice, it was like, no, no, go. Just hang up immediately and go. And. And then we named our daughter Naomi. Oh, well, the last part's not true, but everything up to that is.

[Bill Murray]

Thank God that's funny. Well, that sounds like the person I know. Yeah.

[David Marchese]

Yeah, she was very sweet about it. I always appreciate that, but.

[Bill Murray]

So did you ever get it done?

[David Marchese]

Have a child?

[Bill Murray]

Well, you did that, obviously, but.

[David Marchese]

Oh, no, a colleague of mine pinch hit for me and did the interview, but. So the friend is. It's a beautiful novel. It's about a woman played by Naomi Watts, who's a pivotal figure in her life. Walter, played by you, dies from suicide. This all happens in the first couple minutes of the movie, so I'm not giving anything away. And then Naomi Watts character has to take care of Walter's dog, which is a giant Great Dane. So what was interesting to you about this project and the role of Walter in particular?

[Bill Murray]

Well, Naomi called me up and said, you know, these folks would love to have you be in this thing, you know, And I said, okay, you know, get me a hard copy of the script. And so. And I got a copy of the book. So I. I read it. And the fact that Naomi was attached got me to look at it in the first place very quickly and so forth. We had a.

[David Marchese]

We made a movie called St. Vincent.

[Bill Murray]

And had a good experience and, you know, like, we liked each other professionally and for. And then we. Then we became friends. So I don't know what your question was.

[David Marchese]

Why did you do the movie?

[Bill Murray]

Why did I do the movie? So I did the movie because I thought it was good. And I kind of like the idea of being, you know, you're. It's being asked to help, sort of someone has you to do something, you're kind of a little bit more, wow, you know, someone I like. And. And as an actor, you know, you're sort of. I love it because you're kind of reminded of what the. The rule was, you know, that are this great director at Second City, Del Close said, you know, you know, you're worried about, you know, how you're coming off in a movie or a scene or something like that. You just think about making the other person look good. And, you know, whenever. Whenever I forget in a movie and sometimes I'll be working with some intimidating thug actor, actress. And I go like, oh, God, I gotta deal with this somehow. And then I just go, okay, I'm just gonna make this one look good. Everything changes when you do that.

[David Marchese]

After the break, Bill and I talk about a darker chapter in his career.

[Bill Murray]

I don't go too many days or weeks without thinking of what happened on Being Mortal.

[David Marchese]

Can you say what happened?

[Bill Murray]

What?

[David Marchese]

What?

[Bill Murray]

Yeah, I can say what happened. I think I'm allowed.

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[David Marchese]

There's an anecdote about Samuel Beckett in both the film the Friend and the book. Sort of a famous anecdote about Beckett where he's out walking with a friend and it's a beautiful day. And the friend says to Samuel Beckett, like something along the lines of, you know, isn't a day like this enough to make you glad to be alive? And Samuel Beckett says, I wouldn't go as far as that. And I wondered about how a line like that jibes for you, because it seems to me to capture something about you both, the sort of awareness of the beautiful aspects of life. And then there's also a melancholy to it, because I really think a lot of your best dramatic work touches on some real melancholy, like Lost in Translation, rushmore, of course, St. Vincent. Do you relate to a line like that?

[Bill Murray]

Well, you know, I came from the second city, you know, and, and we didn't consider ourselves comedians, although our shows were funny. We considered ourselves actors. So that's, we always took it seriously. That that's, that's what it is. And if you're a good comedian, you're a good actor because it's the same process. You have to be able to read a straight line to get a joke, to get a laugh. If you can't read a straight line, you know, you're, you're not going to go very far. You know, if you're just like pounding a, you know, I don't want to compare it to Gallagher. If you're just pounding, smashing watermelons, that, that's not for everyone. But for one Thing there's just as many funny movies written as there once were. You know, comedy used to be king. Comedy used to be king. Comedies came out in the summer, and if a movie was funny, it would run the whole summer. You know, that was how it was. You were like, have you seen such and such. It's funny. And then you'd go. And it would run the whole summer. Then it became like a Marvel summer. It became like, have you seen Mr. Fantastico or whatever the hell? No. Whatever. Yes. So people, you know, the movie industry came and what got away from making those funny movies. And it's just sort of inevitable if you stay alive and you keep working, that you have to do something different. But making these, you know, I don't want to sound obvious, but, you know, these melon. These movies that have melancholy in them, there's definitely funny things in. In them too, you know, and you have to be able to. Like there's a scene in Lesson Translation where there's this melancholy guy. He's in this bar on the top of the tallest hotel in Tokyo, and he's drinking to get drunk. And there's. He meets this young girl in there and he's drinking to get drunk, and he's dressed in a tuxedo and he's just come from doing this horrendous commercial shoot. But, you know, he plays this whole scene and then he turns his back and you realize his jacket is all pinned together in the back so it fits perfectly in the front for the TV camera. But he's so oblivious and so, so, so fleeing from the re. The horrible reality of his life. He doesn't even bother to take the damn pins out of the back. He does. He's forgotten they're even there. So that's kind of the unknowing of like, what's funny about your own life is. Is amusing when you do see it. You know, when you do see what a fool you make of yourself or how blind you are, that stuff's funny. And I. I appreciate it in my own life. And it's kind of great to show it, and it's great to show the obliviousness of it on the screen.

[David Marchese]

Your part in the Friend, in a way, reminds me of some other relatively recent parts from your career in that he's sort of a charismatic, charming guy who's also been sort of a selfish ding dong.

[Bill Murray]

Sort of a what?

[David Marchese]

Selfish ding dong is the way I put it. And I just recently saw something where you had done a Sundance interview with Elvis Mitchell, who was a Film critic for the Times for a long time. And he brought up the film on the Rocks. And I thought, oh, the on the Rocks character and Walter, there's some similarities between them. And in your interview with Elvis Mitchell, you know, you referred to taking on roles like the on the Rocks role as a kind of penance. And I thought, well, penance could mean making amends, it could mean punishment. What would it mean to say taking on a role is, is like a form of penance? And did that apply to Walter also?

[Bill Murray]

I think I have those definitions are, are accurate. The one I would kind of lean toward myself is that you have to suffer to play it like it's not to play a complete jerk or.

[David Marchese]

What did you call Ding dong?

[Bill Murray]

Selfish ding dong. That's why I didn't hear that. I never heard those words together. It's pretty sweet. I, I liked it. So to play a selfish ding dong. And this is going to go sideways for a second. One of my. In this movie, the friend. I have some. I'm someone that's had three wives. And one of my wives is such a horrible, horrible creature that I finally ran into her not at work just a few weeks ago and I said, I'm sorry. I gotta say, I'm so glad you're like a human being. I thought you couldn't possibly be that good as a horrible creature without being a horrible creature. So that really was great acting. But for me, the penance is like having to live and be the part of that person that you really have to make people uncomfortable. You really have to make people uncomfortable. And even though it's only acting and it's, Even though it's only for a minute, it's real. You really make people feel it. And to do that, you can't cheat. You can't be sort of nice. You can't be like a method idiot and be like mean all the time. You know, I work with those fools. But you have to be really consistently a selfish ding dong in the scene. And you have to be unrelenting. And when you really bear down on someone, if you're doing it well enough, it really, you really hurt someone. It really hurts. They really feel the hurt because you're doing it to enable them to express the hurt on for the camera, you know, so you're. It's rough. It's rough stuff. And you all got to take a deep breath and exhale afterwards and you know, like, get over here. You know, that was just, you know, that wasn't us. That was that, you know, and it's, you know, it's. If you don't do it that hard, you know, you're kind of cheating, you know.

[David Marchese]

Yeah. Is it cathartic for you? Like, do you somehow grow from that?

[Bill Murray]

Yeah, you can feel that too. When you, when you performed as a horrible creep, you know that, hey, I have been that horrible creep. I have been that horrible creep and not seen it and not then aware of it. And if you're really seeing it, if you're doing it in the scene, you're really. You're doing it well, you're seeing it.

[David Marchese]

You know, something that also stood out for me with the film and it's connected maybe to what we're just talking about. There is a parallel between Walter and you in that Walter in the film has been accused of some inappropriate misconduct. And a couple years ago, on Being Mortal, there was some. It was described as inappropriate misconduct. I mean, surely those parallels occurred to you. Were you. Did you think about them during the film or were you trying to work through something?

[Bill Murray]

I don't, I mean, I don't go too many days or weeks without thinking of what happened on Being Mortal.

[David Marchese]

Yeah. Can you say what happened?

[Bill Murray]

What?

[David Marchese]

What?

[Bill Murray]

Yeah, I can say what happened. I think I'm allowed to. There was some sort of, you know, I tried to make peace. I thought I was trying to make pe. I ended up being like, to my mind, barbecued on the. On the. But someone that I worked with, you know, that I had had lunch with, you know, on various days of the week and so forth. We were all. It was Covid. We were all wearing masks and we were all just stranded in this one room listening to this crazy scene. And I don't know what prompted me to do it. It's something that I. That I had done to someone else before. And I thought it was funny. And it happened. It was funny. I was wearing a mask and I gave her a kiss and she was wearing a mask. You know, it was like. It wasn't like I touched her, it was just. I gave her a kiss through a mask, threw another mask to another person and it wasn't. She wasn't a stranger.

[David Marchese]

And you said you think about this often.

[Bill Murray]

Well, it still bothers me because that movie was stopped by the. The. Whatever they call the human rights or H and R of the Disney Corporation, which is probably a little bit more strident than some other countries. But. And I, you know, it turned out there was like pre existing conditions and all this kind of stuff. Like what. How was anyone supposed to know Anything like that. It was like. And there was. There was to be no conversation. There was no conversation. There was nothing. There was no peacemaking. Nothing. Nothing. And just this. It went to this lunatic arbitration, which I recommend. Anyone out there. Anyone ever suggests you go to arbitration, don't do it. Never, ever do it because you think it's like, justice and it isn't.

[David Marchese]

Do you feel like you learned something from that experience?

[Bill Murray]

You know, I think so. I mean, I. You know, you can teach an old dog new tricks, but I. I just thought it was a disappointment. It was a great disappointment because I thought I knew someone and I did not. And I thought it was. I certainly thought it was light. I thought it was funny. And to me, it's still funny. The idea that you could give someone a kiss with a mask on, it's still stupid. It's all it was. And we're talking about a movie, Being Mortal, which is a wonderful book by.

[David Marchese]

Atul Gawande, about death and dying and.

[Bill Murray]

And the subject matter is gruesome. It's about a man whose father is dying before his very eyes. And we were. At that time, we were shooting at the Hollywood retirement home in the. And, you know, you're there with people of your own career that are no longer able to. Or, you know, they're not working anymore, but many of them are invalid, you know, and you're there with people and they're. You're surrounded by them, and you say, and somehow you're still healthy enough to work. And. And they're extras, you know, they're just extras or just witnesses. And it was. I felt like I had even more of an obligation than usual, like, okay, to make this fun. I spent a lot of the day. And when you're dealing with this painful material all day long. Part of what my job, I've felt my job has always been, is to keep the mood light, is to, like, elevate to. To just leaven this a little bit, you know, like, this is. The job is not easy. The job is not easy. And, you know, when you're doing a story that's really about pain and misery, you. Everyone can get pained and miserable, and you don't want that. You want to, like, just say, hey, we're still. We are still in this. We're still who we are. We're not dying like this man is dying in the movie. We're living a life, and we have a great opportunity here to live it. Let's go. I mean, like, the day before this, you know, we had Mariachis at lunch, you know, you know, singing and La Bamba. I got up and sang La Bamba with the band, and it was just. We're trying to make this, you know, a little bit more bearable. You know, it. It's. Life can. Is and. And should be hard. You know, it should be challenging. You know, it's hard enough without. Without getting miserable.

[David Marchese]

You know, there's sort of like a central mystery for me about. I mean, it sounds too highfalutin to say there's something I don't understand about you. I'm not going to pretend there's a central mystery that I've.

[Bill Murray]

You're not alone there. I don't understand something about me.

[David Marchese]

Most of it, you know, you describe, you know, wanting to bring lightness to set, but there are, you know, they're easy to find. A handful of rough stories about you on set, you know, winging a glass ashtray at Richard Dreyfuss's head.

[Bill Murray]

Well, that's fact. Not even true.

[David Marchese]

Okay, well, okay.

[Bill Murray]

So you can tell that story as much you like, but it's never going to be true. I did fire a glass, but I threw it at the ceiling. We were in a townhouse on the set of what About Bob, and I did not fire it at anyone. I threw it up in a far corner of the townhouse, kind of assuming it might break upon contact with the ceiling and the walls. But I didn't throw it at anyone. If I'd thrown it at Dreyfus, I'd have hit him.

[David Marchese]

In Geena Davis's memoir, you know, sort of outrageous. Dressed her down. But. But I don't need to go through the list. But, but.

[Bill Murray]

Well, you're also talking about. And you know, when someone has a. Like an. An episode like mine on this being mortal thing, the world goes searching for more. More proof that this person is a monster, an absolute monster. Well, I've had interactions with hundreds of thousands of people over 40, 50 years. Hundreds of thousands of people. Now you can come up with half a dozen. You probably. If you really worked, you probably come up with a couple dozen. But you're talking about.

[David Marchese]

You're saying they're not representative. Yeah.

[Bill Murray]

You know, this is my life. I. I am engaged all the time. I'm not complaining about it because I hate people that complain about it. But I don't walk down the street the way that you can walk down the street. I walk down the street and people go, hey, you. You know, and I miss walking down the street. Like you walk down the street Yeah, I miss it, but it's never coming back. So I deal, you know. And most people I have a. Most people I have just an okay experience with. Some people you have a spectacular experience with. But my percentages are no different than yours. If you meet 100 people, I meet a thousand people. Out of your hundred, 75 of them are kind of forgettable, right? Maybe 80. And then there's a handful that are wonderful, and then there's a handful that are unpleasant and miserable. You know, you live in New York. You're going to have some oddballs, right? I have the same numbers. I just have lots more.

[David Marchese]

What you just described the inability to walk down the street anonymously. Like, I can walk down the street. How did you figure out how to manage that in a way that didn't make your life feel impossible?

[Bill Murray]

It's a continuous process. It's not like, oh, I figured that one out. Because I'm never the same. I'm not the same person now that I was 20 minutes ago. You know, I'm not. And. And you can have a different point of view about it. You know, you can get. So you just hide from people. I've walked down the street with a hat down over my head, glasses on my eyes. I love Covid. I love covet. Because I could just walk down the street with a mask down my face. It was fantastic. But I've been all kinds of ways about it, and it's a continuing development. Like, I used to spend so much energy. People would say, like, can I take your picture? And I would. The kind of ass that would say it's may I take your picture? You know. Do you know how many times I said that? To no avail. Absolutely no avail. But I wasted a whole lot of time that way, you know, and doing. Doing stuff that sort of make it acceptable on my stupid terms, you know, trying to, like. Let me just try to like, make life more like I like it, you know, what a screw at. What if. Do people curse on your show? Yeah, I'm doing a fine job of holding back, I think. But I keep wanting to say not so good. So currently I'm in. You know, like now what I do for a living is I. I take cell phone photographs. That's what I do for a living. I'm not an actor. I am a donkey that is photographed with people who don't know how to operate their own cell phone camera. That's what I do all day long. Do you? I mean, no. I mean, I do it a lot. A lot. You do I do it a lot. And it's just. That's part of. And I don't think any. I don't. I don't regret it. I don't resent it. It's like this is what I do. And it's. It's so simple. And I've realized how much energy I was wasting with all that, but with the resisting it.

[David Marchese]

Yeah.

[Bill Murray]

It was just crazy how much. And when I, it finally hit me, I went, oh, my God, what a church. How could you have been a jerk for that long?

[David Marchese]

Yeah. You know, have you found a way to get fulfillment out of this new job that you've recognized that you have?

[Bill Murray]

That's. Yeah. You know, I thought about that actual question while I was sort of answering, and it's not so much fulfilling as, like people are.

[David Marchese]

Oh, so you got teary eyed. I don't mean to.

[Bill Murray]

I didn't mean to. I'm. I've gotten pretty good.

[David Marchese]

Yeah.

[Bill Murray]

And people, most people recognize when they see how skillful I am with this reverse. Oh, my God. How did you do that? How did you do that? You know? Well, because I've done it thousands of times. That. That's how I got good at it. It's like any, like a guy who fixes pipes got good at it. You know, this thing is six hours long anyway.

[David Marchese]

We're almost done. We're almost done. What you said about being a different person one moment than you were 20 seconds prior.

[Bill Murray]

Are we getting anything done here?

[David Marchese]

I'm having a good time. Are you having a good time?

[Bill Murray]

This one over here is the, the cipher over here. This one here, this.

[David Marchese]

So Annabelle?

[Bill Murray]

Yeah. Nothing.

[David Marchese]

Well, she's doing her job.

[Bill Murray]

Is she. She medicated or is she from. Is she a. I'm watching the levels. Well, you're watching the levels. It's all about the levels with this one. Well, it's all about the levels with a lot of us.

[David Marchese]

What was I saying?

[Bill Murray]

You were saying something.

[David Marchese]

Oh, so you, you. You're a different person from. You can be a different person in the present than you were 20 seconds ago. Yeah. Do you like that feeling or. Or is it destabilizing to think 20 seconds from now I could be a different person. Person?

[Bill Murray]

Well, I only like it if I, If I see what a. A horrible. Well, it's not fair. If you see what, what you're up to, you should like it. You know, whether it's you're being horrible or you're being wonderful. If you see it, that's great. Score, you know, score one Get a. You get a score.

[David Marchese]

The awareness is what's important.

[Bill Murray]

The awareness of, like, being what you are, you know, that's. That has value. That's being no value to being just. Just rolling through, you know, you don't. You know, they just put you in a grave at the end. You didn't do anything.

[David Marchese]

I want to finish with a little section from the novel, the Friend. I'm just curious.

[Bill Murray]

Somehow I knew he was going to read aloud at some point during this thing, I knew he was going to read aloud from something.

[David Marchese]

Do I give that vibe? The kind of guy who is into recitations?

[Bill Murray]

Well, I know you didn't have any of your own poetry, which is a big plus, but.

[David Marchese]

Go ahead, wait for it, wait for.

[Bill Murray]

It, wait for it.

[David Marchese]

This is right near the end of a novel. What we miss, what we lose and what we mourn, isn't it this that makes us who deep down we truly are. To say nothing of what we wanted in life but never got to have. So my question for you is what. What haven't you gotten that you wanted? And what did you get that you wanted?

[Bill Murray]

Well, I don't know which to say first.

[David Marchese]

Say the. The sadder one first. And let's end on an up note.

[Bill Murray]

Well, the sadder one is I haven't gotten. You know, I really think about. You know, I don't want to really sound too. Too damn special here. I haven't gotten where I'm active all the time.

[David Marchese]

Active, meaning aware.

[Bill Murray]

Yeah, I haven't gotten. So that I'm there. I'm much more of a person of being than I. Than I am now. You know, I haven't gotten there. But what I have gotten was the opportunity, the knowledge that, like, hey, there's a way to do this. If only you had the guts or the inner resources to do it. You know, if you were just tougher on yourself, you know, if you were just more demanding, not so lazy, not so unconscious. You know, all this. But you can rally. And the rallies are extraordinary. The rallies are great. The rallies are great. And. And they give you hope and. And. And it's the hope for a rally that. That really keeps me going. I really hope for a rally all the time.

[David Marchese]

You feel one coming on.

[Bill Murray]

This is a rally.

[David Marchese]

Thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me.

[Bill Murray]

Thank you. This has been a nice time here.

[David Marchese]

That's Bill Murray. The Friend is in theaters nationwide starting April 4th. This conversation was produced by Annabelle Bacon. It was edited by Allison Benedict, mixing by Sophia Landman original music by Dan Powell, Elisheba Itupe and Marian Lozano Photography by Philip Montgomery. The rest of the team is Priya, Matthew, Wyatt Orme and Seth Kelly. Special thanks to Rory Walsh, David Karthus, Renan Borelli, Jeffrey Miranda, Nick Pittman, Matty Masiello, Jake Silverstein, Paula Schuman and Sam Dolnick. If you like what you're hearing, follow or subscribe to the Interview wherever you get your podcasts. And to read or listen to any of our conversations, you can always go to nytimes.com theinterview and you can email us [e-mail] Next week, Lulu talks with comedian Rami Youssef. For me, there's an obligation to be emotionally correct. My obligation above all is to try and hit what something feels like right on the head.

[Bill Murray]

Like that's my nail that I'm trying to hit.

[David Marchese]

The nail I don't want to be asked to hit is to spread facts and information. I'm David Marchese, and this is the interview from the New York Times.

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