Summary of “The Interview”: Misty Copeland Changed Ballet. Now She's Ready to Move On

Episode Release Date: June 7, 2025
Podcast: The Daily by The New York Times
Host: David Marchese

Introduction

In this poignant episode of The Daily, host David Marchese engages in an in-depth conversation with renowned ballerina Misty Copeland as she announces her retirement from the American Ballet Theatre (ABT) after a distinguished 25-year career. Copeland’s journey from humble beginnings to becoming the first black woman to be named a principal dancer at ABT is explored, along with her reflections on legacy, diversity, and the evolving landscape of ballet.

Decision to Retire

Misty Copeland (00:32) opens up about her decision to retire, stating, “I've wanted to just kind of fade away into the background, which is not really possible.” She emphasizes the need for an official closure to her time at ABT to honor the legacy she has built and the stories of black dancers who paved the way for her.

At [02:31], when asked why now is the time to make her retirement official, Copeland shares, “I think this is the end of this chapter,” indicating a natural progression to the next phase of her life and career.

Fulfilling Career and Final Performances

Copeland reflects on reaching a point where she felt fulfilled on stage. In [04:03], she recounts her last performance of Swan Lake at Wolf Trap, describing it as “the best performance I’d ever had,” highlighting a moment of personal and professional contentment.

She discusses the challenges of facing criticism despite her achievements, noting, “Even once I became a principal dancer, I was getting so much criticism about whether or not I should be in that position as a black woman” ([05:47]). This underscores the additional pressures she faced as a trailblazer in a predominantly white field.

Personal Growth and Identity

In [06:02], Copeland delves into her personal journey, explaining how ballet provided stability and structure during her tumultuous upbringing. “I have this need for approval from the audience. It was like, I needed to dance,” she shares, illustrating how dance was a sanctuary and a means of self-expression beyond the limelight.

Legacy and Diversity in Ballet

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Copeland’s impact on diversity within ballet. When questioned about her legacy ([07:07]), she humbly states, “It’s never been about me,” emphasizing the broader goal of making ballet more inclusive. Copeland advocates for systemic changes, such as increasing access to ballet in underserved communities and ensuring diverse representation in leadership roles within ballet institutions.

She challenges the traditional casting norms in ballet, asserting, “Opening your mind to the possibilities of what can be created when you see something done on a body in a way that you're not used to” ([09:27]). Copeland believes that embracing diversity not only enriches the art form but also broadens its appeal and relevance.

Navigating Political and Social Challenges

Addressing the current political climate, especially the scrutiny of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives, Copeland emphasizes resilience and focused effort. In [12:15], she remarks, “We're just kind of keeping our heads down and staying the course,” suggesting a strategy of steadfast commitment to her values despite external pressures.

She underscores the importance of art as a unifying force, stating, “Art is the most incredible way to build bridges, no matter what political party you're in” ([11:02]), highlighting her belief in the transformative power of dance.

Physical Challenges and Final Performance

At [22:59], Copeland candidly discusses the physical toll of returning to dance after a five-year hiatus, mentioning injuries like a labral tear and other chronic issues. Despite these challenges, she expresses a deep love for dance’s consistency and the protective environment it provides.

Reflecting on aging and dancing, she notes, “The older you get, the less you can do physically, but the more life experiences you have to pull from” ([25:09]). This perspective allows her to approach her final performances with a sense of purpose and fulfillment rather than fixation on physical prowess.

Balancing Personal and Professional Life

In a heartfelt moment ([26:07]), Copeland shares a journal entry from April 12, 2022, depicting a serene scene with her newborn son. This entry illustrates her evolving identity beyond ballet, embracing motherhood and the new dimensions it brings to her life.

She explains, “Being a mother and having my son has allowed me to let go even more,” ([27:46]) indicating how this role has facilitated her transition from being solely a ballerina to a multifaceted individual.

Relationship with American Ballet Theatre

Copeland reflects on her complex relationship with ABT, acknowledging both the opportunities it provided and the systemic challenges she faced. In [32:43], she speaks about advocating for diverse casting and navigating institutional resistance, highlighting that significant progress has been made, but there is still “a long way to go.”

Dance’s Place in American Culture

Throughout the interview, Copeland expresses frustration over dance’s undervalued status compared to other art forms like music or film. She asserts, “Dance is such an integral part of every culture,” ([37:56]) and emphasizes the necessity of authentic representation to elevate its cultural standing.

Concluding Thoughts and Final Performance

As the interview concludes, Copeland shares her hopes for her final performance, focusing on personal satisfaction rather than external validation. She intends to embrace her current physical state and enjoy the moment, stating, “I want to allow myself the freedom to do what feels right and feels good, because I want to enjoy myself” ([41:47]).

Final Remarks

Misty Copeland’s retirement marks the end of an era in ballet, characterized by groundbreaking achievements and unwavering commitment to diversity and inclusion. Her reflections offer valuable insights into the challenges and triumphs of being a pioneering black ballerina, her personal growth, and her enduring legacy in the world of dance.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “I've wanted to just kind of fade away into the background, which is not really possible.” — Misty Copeland, [02:31]

• “Even once I became a principal dancer, I was getting so much criticism about whether or not I should be in that position as a black woman.” — Misty Copeland, [05:47]

• “Dance is the most incredible way to build bridges, no matter what political party you're in.” — Misty Copeland, [11:02]

• “The older you get, the less you can do physically, but the more life experiences you have to pull from.” — Misty Copeland, [25:09]

• “Art is the most incredible way to build bridges, no matter what political party you're in.” — Misty Copeland, [11:02]

• “I want to allow myself the freedom to do what feels right and feels good, because I want to enjoy myself.” — Misty Copeland, [41:47]

Conclusion

Misty Copeland’s interview offers an intimate glimpse into her illustrious career, her advocacy for diversity, and her personal journey beyond ballet. As she prepares for her final performance, Copeland stands as a testament to resilience, excellence, and the enduring power of art to inspire and transform society.