The Last 12 Weeks

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily – "The Last 12 Weeks"

Date: June 28, 2026
Hosts: Maurice Shama (Serial Productions, The Marshall Project), featured interviews with Rachel Abrams, Detective John Guerrero, George Hall, Greg Wurchuck, Jeremy Sheppard, and Stephanie Valle.

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Overview of the Episode's Theme

This episode presents the gripping first installment of “The Last 12 Weeks,” a narrative series produced by Serial Productions, The Marshall Project, and The New York Times. Hosted by journalist Maurice Shama, the series documents the intense, behind-the-scenes scramble of capital defense attorneys striving to stop the looming execution of David Wood, a man convicted and sentenced to death for a string of heinous murders in El Paso, Texas. The story captures the emotional and procedural rollercoaster of investigating claims of innocence, unearthing flaws in the original trial, lobbying for last-minute legal lifelines, and confronting the ticking countdown to an execution date.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Trigger: The Call from George Hall

[01:33 – 08:13]

• George Hall, a former inmate, comes forward after 30 years, claiming that testimony against David Wood was fabricated by jailhouse informants incentivized by law enforcement.
• Hall delayed coming forward due to fear of parole violation; now off parole, he feels compelled to reveal his story, regardless of its impact on Wood's fate.
• “I don't know if it's gonna make a difference whether he gets executed or not ... What I have to live with is, can I live with myself knowing that I know two people fabricated testimony to get a guy executed, and I don't say anything about it?” – George Hall ([07:38])

2. Journalist Maurice Shama’s Entry

[08:13 – 11:35]

• Shama becomes involved after Wood’s lawyer, Greg Wurchuck, reaches out, urgently seeking media attention to cast doubt on the conviction and buy time before the execution.
• Shama is initially skeptical given the heinous nature of the crimes and the strength of the case as documented.

3. Background: The Case Against David Wood

[13:00 – 21:44]

• Detective John Guerrero, lead investigator, recounts the 1987 discovery of multiple murder victims in the El Paso desert, the subsequent identification of David Wood (nicknamed "Skeeter") as the main suspect, and Wood's prior record of sexual crimes.
• The investigation hinges on circumstantial evidence, some physical evidence (orange fibers), and crucially, confession testimony from jailhouse informants.
• "At that point, you know, we're going like, holy crap, man. You know, we have a fucking serial killer here somewhere." – Detective Guerrero ([15:00])

4. Doubts About the Original Conviction

• While the circumstantial case against Wood is strong—location, timing, and prior offenses—there are multiple gaps and concerns: untested DNA, reliance on informants, and community narratives possibly influenced by police theory-linking.

5. Greg Wurchuck’s Last-Ditch Legal Efforts

[21:44 – 28:26]

• Greg Wurchuck, a veteran capital defender, strategizes how to save Wood, focusing on two pillars:
  • Bearing out Hall's claims about fabricated jailhouse testimony.
  • Demanding full modern DNA testing of evidence—some of which already points to male DNA not linked to Wood.
• Greg’s challenge: persuading the newly elected District Attorney James Montoya to support a review and DNA testing, even as police, prosecutors, and public opinion remain firmly convinced of Wood's guilt.

6. Attempting to Engage the DA

[22:08 – 28:05]

• Greg attempts to contact Montoya, hoping that new leadership may be open to reevaluating the case. Montoya, absorbed in more recent high-profile cases (e.g., the Walmart shooting), rebuffs Greg’s efforts, citing lack of bandwidth.
• Despite the blunt and discouraging refusal, Greg remains determined to persist. "So I'm an optimist. I'm not a naive optimist. ... Charlie Brown's my hero." – Greg Wurchuck ([27:16])

7. Press Outreach and the Media Game

[28:26 – 41:42]

• Greg and co-counsel Jeremy Sheppard target local press for help. At KVIA, they meet anchor Stephanie Valle, who has previously reported on the case (with a tilt toward Wood's guilt).
• Stephanie is skeptical about the DA revisiting the case, but Greg pitches the issues. She suggests his going on record himself could pressure Montoya.
• Valle’s looming departure from KVIA complicates any possible follow-up.
• Greg manages a brief uptick in hope when Valle seems to offer to contact Montoya on his behalf, but momentum fades when she leaves for a new position with the DA’s office—and then communications stall completely.

8. Disillusionment and the Breakdown in Advocacy

• An interview with Valle, potentially pivotal, is declared "corrupted" and never airs. Jeremy suspects a cover story as Valle prepares to join Montoya’s staff.
• "Did you, Greg? Did you ask Stephanie if her dog ate her homework, too, while she was busy making shit up about why she couldn't air this? This feels like one of those zones where the eternal optimist is going to agree with her and the eternal pessimist thinks this is complete and total fucking bullshit. Cold feet about this story." – Jeremy Sheppard ([40:44])

9. Countdown Continues / What’s Next

[42:09 – End]

• With only two months left, the defense pivots: with the DNA testing avenue stymied, they accelerate witness and alternative suspect investigation.
• They recognize their options narrowing as community, media, and legal institutions close ranks.
• “The idea of getting James Montoya on board and testing DNA feels more remote than ever. The lawyers can't even get a face to face meeting with him. So now, with two months left, they're going to launch a fresh round of investigation.” ([43:04])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On moral compulsion:
  “What I have to live with is, can I live with myself knowing that I know two people fabricated testimony to get a guy executed, and I don't say anything about it?” – George Hall ([07:38])

• Detective’s conviction:
  “Is there any doubt in your mind that this is the man that committed this heinous crimes against these little girls? None whatsoever. None? None.” – Detective John Guerrero ([13:16])

• Skepticism in the press:
  “I would think the last thing that the district attorney would want to do is not only have to restructure an office that's been in turmoil for the last four years, but also reopen one of the oldest death penalty cases in El Paso.” – Stephanie Valle ([32:28])

• On optimism vs. reality:
  “I do hold out hope that Lucy will not pull away the football when I run up to kick it this time. Charlie Brown's my hero.” – Greg Wurchuck ([27:16])

• Professional disillusionment:
  “She probably has some job offer and she thinks she can't run a story on David Wood right now.” – Jeremy Sheppard ([41:29])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:33] – Introduction of David Wood’s case; George Hall’s story surfaces
• [07:38] – Hall explains his motivation for coming forward
• [13:16] – Detective Guerrero asserts Wood’s unequivocal guilt
• [15:00] – Discovery of the desert bodies and start of the murder investigation
• [17:25] – Connecting "Skeeter" to David Wood; key suspect narrative
• [18:15 – 19:35] – Judith Kelling's harassment, attempted murder, and survival account
• [21:44] – Greg Wurchuck’s involvement and initial defense strategy
• [22:26] – Confrontation with DA Montoya; bureaucratic unwillingness
• [27:16] – Greg’s "Charlie Brown" philosophy of persistence despite odds
• [32:28] – Press skepticism and challenges in influencing public narrative
• [35:24] – Greg’s struggle to communicate an effective narrative
• [40:44] – Suspicions about lost media opportunity as Valle joins DA’s office
• [42:09] – Final thoughts on avenues left for the defense

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Episode Tone, Style, and Takeaways

The episode balances dogged journalistic investigation, legal drama, and the ethical complexities of death penalty defense. The storytelling is tense, atmospheric, and deeply human, alternating between the procedural maneuvers of attorneys and the existential stakes of justice and error in capital cases. The episode ultimately leaves listeners with a sense of mounting urgency and ambiguity—an old conviction under fire, adversaries entrenched, and the defense’s next desperate moves uncertain as the clock inexorably ticks down.

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For further exploration, find all five episodes of “The Last 12 Weeks” by searching for the series on your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

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[Rachel Abrams]

From the New York Times, I'm Rachel Abrams and this is the Daily on Sunday. Today, we've got a little something different for you because our colleagues over at Serial Productions have a new series out that we're excited to share. It's called the last 12 weeks and it follows a team of death penalty lawyers in their last minute scramble to try to stop their client's execution in Texas. And what's kind of incredible about it is that the team at Serial managed to convince a team of death penalty lawyers to let them follow them around in the middle of an actual case. They put microphones in the room as the lawyers tried to argue their case to witnesses, to the media, to a victim's mother. And these are the kinds of behind the scenes conversations you rarely get to hear. And they are riveting. So we're sharing the first episode of the five part series, a collaboration with the Marshall Project and hosted by reporter Maurice Shama. You can find all episodes by searching for the last 12 weeks wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, here's the show.

[Maurice Shama]

In the fall of 2024, a criminal defense lawyer got the kind of phone call that most lawyers can only dream about. It concerned a client of his, a guy named David Wood, one of Texas most notorious serial killers. He was sitting on death row, months away from his execution.

[George Hall]

Thank you, George hall. And I would like to discuss with you something about David Wood. Why don't condone what has happened in that case. The fact is, I don't.

[Maurice Shama]

The man on the phone, George hall thought something corrupt had gone down in David Wood's trial. It had happened more than 30 years ago. But for 30 years he'd said nothing. Mostly because he was afraid to. For those 30 years, he'd been on parole. He worried if he aggravated the authorities, they might find some way to send him back to prison. But now his parole had ended and George hall was ready to tell his story, which he'd eventually put into a sworn declaration. That story goes like back in the late 80s, George hall and David Wood were locked up together at the Eastham unit in Texas. George hall was in for murder. David Wood was in for Rape. They weren't particularly close. David Wood was quiet, didn't talk much. But when he did, George says it was mainly to complain about how the police in his hometown of El Paso were harassing him, investigating him for a series of murders.

[George Hall (Prisoner Testimony)]

Basically, what he said was El Paso was trying to pin it on him.

[Maurice Shama]

David Wood insisted he had nothing to do with those murders. George thought maybe he didn't, maybe he did. Either way, he didn't really care. Eventually, George and David Wood were separated, move to different facilities hundreds of miles apart. One day, George says he's in the prison library ready to go to lunch, when two officers come in and tell him to pack his stuff.

[George Hall (Prisoner Testimony)]

I said, well, where am I going? They wouldn't tell me. So next thing I know, I'm on a bus ride down to El Paso.

[Maurice Shama]

A few hours later, George finds himself in a holding cell in the El Paso County Jail. Two other guys join him in there. George recognizes them both as guys who had celled with David Wood. And one of them says to the group, they have an opportunity. They can all get money, maybe, or less prison time. All they have to do is snitch on David Wood. Soon enough, they're escorted out of the cell and into a car. And George says, that's when the cops start rolling out the red carpet.

[George Hall (Prisoner Testimony)]

They give us the tour up scenic, drive up the mountainside, look across the Rio Grande, look into old Mexico and this and that and whatever, you know. And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, we're not handcuffed. What if we jump out and run? What are they gonna do then? You know?

[Maurice Shama]

But he sits tight. George says they're taken to a hamburger joint for lunch and then ultimately to a police station. The guys are offered coffee, snacks, cigarettes. And then they're ushered into a room with detectives.

[George Hall (Prisoner Testimony)]

Of course, they got files everywhere. They got David woods name plastered all over her thing. They got arrows and lines going to this, dates wrote down. Files are sitting there. They start handing us file. Look at that. We got this on him. We got this. He did this. We know this, this, this, this. And going through all facts and stuff that. This narrative driven shit. And you reading what they got. And then they. After that they go, you know anything? Well, I don't know a goddamn thing. All they had to do is ask me at the prison unit. I was mad about it.

[Maurice Shama]

As for the other two guys, they

[George Hall (Prisoner Testimony)]

go back, they're talking to each other, but it's in real low tone, and they basically don't even want to talk to me. About nothing. So I knew to myself right then and there, they're going to say whatever they want them to say.

[Maurice Shama]

They're going to tell the police that David Wood confessed to multiple murders. But George is sure these guys don't actually know anything about David Wood. He would have heard about it already. Plus, he knows they're not above lying. George returns to prison not long after he writes to an El Paso prosecutor about, quote, improprieties that I am aware of. He says he knows the informants are fabricating their stories. The prosecutor never writes back. But the letter does make its way into David Wood's case file. Eventually, David Wood does go on trial for the murders. George is never called to testify. But the two other guys become the star witnesses for the prosecution. The jury convicts David Wood, and he's sentenced to death. Court documents show that after the trial, one of the informants received $13,000 in reward money. The other got his own capital murder charge dropped. I identified more than a dozen officers, detectives, and supervisors who were involved in dav. I wanted to ask them about George Hall. Some were dead, one had dementia, one hung up on me, and others never responded. But the one detective who did speak to me extensively about the case called George's whole story, quote, preposterous. It's pretty well documented in court records and a media account that George and the other two men were brought in together and interviewed by the El Paso police. But the detectives said he couldn't imagine his colleagues taking prisoners out for a joyride and showing them case materials in order to get them to snitch. For more than 30 years after David Wood's trial, George kept tabs on the case, Googled it from time to time. In 2009, he read that David Wood's execution was called off. There'd been a question about his intellectual capacity. But by 2024, George saw that David Wood was again scheduled for execution. This time, George figured it would actually happen. And this time, he was finally off parole. So if he was gonna speak up, it was now or never.

[George Hall (Prisoner Testimony)]

I don't know if it's gonna make a difference whether he gets executed or not. That's not the question. That's not what I gotta live with. What I have to live with is, can I live with myself knowing that I know two people fabricated testimony to get a guy executed, and I don't say anything about it?

[Maurice Shama]

Not long after, George hall called David Wood's lawyer. David Wood's lawyer emailed me, asking me to write about the case. I wasn't Surprised? I'm a journalist at a nonprofit called the Marshall Project, where we cover the criminal justice system. I'm the death penalty guy on staff, as gloomy as that sounds. But I was surprised by who was asking. Greg Wurchuck. I know Greg Wurchuck as a big deal in capital defense work. He's been defending people on death row for decades and even stopped one execution by winning at the Supreme Court. I'd asked him for an interview years ago for a book I was writing on the death penalty. He said no. He rarely spoke to reporters. But now here he was in my inbox. His email was polite and panicky. David Wood's execution date was only 17 weeks away. He wanted me to write about the case and all the problems he saw with it. I was pretty skeptical. I did the hard hitting research of reading the Wikipedia page about David Wood and Woof. Six women and girls, one one as young as 14, killed and buried in the desert outside of El Paso. David Wood even got one of those spooky serial killer nicknames, the Desert Killer. Greg wrote to me that David Wood was innocent, that he didn't commit any of these murders. And sure, I did find George Hall's story compelling. But even if those informants were lying at the trial, that doesn't mean David Wood didn't do it. Plus, in order to do the story Greg was pitching, I'd have to reinvestigate it from scratch. All six murders in a matter of weeks. That sounded impossible, but I was curious about what Greg was up to. His overall project trying to sow enough doubt at the last minute in order to save his client's life. I'd seen executions get staged for procedural claims about execution methods or a defendant's mental fitness. But this wasn't just a claim about an unfair trial. Greg was saying David Wood didn't do it at all. And now somehow, he's supposed to prove that in a few months. In death penalty circles, many smart and knowledgeable people are critical of Greg's line of work. Prosecutors, judges, victim family members. They say that capital defense lawyers like Greg are just ideologically opposed to the death penalty zealots even, who will do anything and everything to stop or delay an execution. And their work wastes time and money, harms the justice system, and worst of all, denies victims, families the closure they deserve. All of that could be true. Or Greg could have just four months to stop the state from killing an innocent man. So I told Greg, I'm not going to do the big feature story on David Wood. You're imagining. But what if I follow you around? Be there with a microphone as you strategize with your team, hunt for witnesses and try to persuade people of David Wood's innocence. With the clock ticking, Greg had a million reasons to say no. I'm still kind of shocked that he said yes. From Serial Productions, the Marshall Project, and the New York Times, this is the last 12 weeks. I'm Maurice Sherma.

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[Maurice Shama]

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[Maurice Shama]

Leading up to his execution date, David Wood's lawyers didn't just contact me. They tried some of the other usual suspects who often bring attention to death row cases. The Innocence Project, Kim Kardashian, among others. None of it worked, and it's not hard to see why.

[Detective John Guerrero]

You can ask me. Is there any doubt in your mind that this is the man that committed this heinous crimes against these little girls? None whatsoever. None? None.

[Maurice Shama]

This is Detective John Guerrero, formerly of the El Paso Police Department, now retired. Johnny, if you talk to him for five minutes, I'm going to let him lay out the basics of David Wood's case. This was one of the biggest cases of his career. So it's a story he likes telling. It starts in the late summer of 1987. A call came in. Two county employees said they'd been working out in the desert northeast of the city when they saw Something pretty disturbing.

[Detective John Guerrero]

They saw something protruding out of the sand. And one of them said, hey, looks like a. Damn, it looks like a leg. And then, so they went up there and as they got closer they went, oh hell, it is a leg, you know, sticking out. So they made the call. And then, and then, here we go. And it started from there.

[Maurice Shama]

It was the body of a woman named Rosa Maria Cossio. She was 23 or 24, in from out of town to visit family. They search the area and pretty quickly, about 50ft away, they find a second body, Karen Baker, she's 20, from El Paso, a mother of three young children. So the police start looking into both of these deaths. And then a month and a half later, a canine team finds a couple more bodies not far from the first two. These belong to Desiree Wheatley and Don Smith, both middle school age girls. A few weeks later, a fifth body, Angelica Frausto, 17. And then in the same area of desert, they find 23 year old Ivy Williams. So now Johnny has six victims in a matter of a few months.

[Detective John Guerrero]

At that point, you know, we're going like, holy crap, man. You know, we have a fucking serial killer here somewhere.

[Maurice Shama]

You know, deserts don't preserve much, so finding evidence in cases like these can be especially difficult. Mostly police are finding skeletons out there. But as Johnny investigates, clues start coming in from a surprising source. Middle school kids, they were all friends with one of the victims.

[Detective John Guerrero]

We started getting information from several people about this white guy that was going around in a Bates truck and also in a motorcycle.

[Maurice Shama]

El Paso is majority Hispanic. So this detail, a white guy stood out to Johnny. The kids say this guy was always

[Detective John Guerrero]

around giving weeds to them and buying them beer and that kind of stuff. And then also we were told that he was real focused on these young girls, you know, real young girls, 15, 16 year old little girls. And I don't remember who it was, but somebody gave us this nickname, Skeeter.

[Maurice Shama]

In old tapes from this investigation, you hear this name come up a lot. Skeeter. Did you ever hear any of the

[Detective John Guerrero]

kids mention a guy by the name

[George Hall]

of Skeeter that had offered him some marijuana or something like that?

[Maurice Shama]

You knew him by a nickname, by Skeeter?

[George Hall]

Okay. How long had you known him?

[Detective John Guerrero]

And then we started asking people about this guy. Skeeter. Skeeter. Skeeter.

[Maurice Shama]

Skeeter or Scooter?

[George Hall]

Skeeter. That was that guy in the truck?

[Maurice Shama]

That was the guy in the truck, yeah.

[Detective John Guerrero]

Somebody said, well, Skeeter is a guy that just got out of Prison.

[George Hall]

Skeeter is who?

[Detective John Guerrero]

And his name is David Wood, I guess. David Wood. Of course, we run his name.

[Maurice Shama]

The mechanics of how Skeeter and David Wood get linked are hazy. In the recordings I listened to, most of the kids had no idea who Skeeter was. And the ones who say Skeeter was David Wood, it's not clear if they put that together themselves or if they were repeating the connection that the cops made. In any case, when Johnny learns more about David Wood's criminal record, he discovers a rap sheet that's long and egregious. Multiple sexual crimes against girls, one as young as 12. And the timeline tracks. David Wood had been released from prison less than a month before the first of these victims disappeared.

[Detective John Guerrero]

So, you know, I mean, right away, the antennas go up, you know, the red lights start blinking and what have you, you know?

[Maurice Shama]

By this point, David Wood is Johnny's prime suspect. But a nickname and a history of crimes, no matter how unsettling, aren't enough to put him away for six murders. But then Johnny gets his first big break.

[Detective John Guerrero]

So this patrol officer calls in and says, hey, look, I don't know if it's related or not, but this girl, let me use the vernacular, she's a hooker. She works downtown. She's a heroin addict. But she's telling people that she was taken out to the desert in northeast El Paso and this guy was going to rape her. And she was able to escape, and a trucker picked her up.

[Maurice Shama]

Her name was Judith Kelling. She died in 2014, but Johnny interviewed her back when it happened.

[Detective John Guerrero]

This is Detective John Guerrero, president of Detective John Guerrero, Officer Ben Ayala.

[George Hall]

Today's date is Monday, November 16, 1987.

[Maurice Shama]

Judith Kelling is in her mid-20s at the time. She tells Johnny that she was out by a Circle K convenience store and was trying to hitchhike to a friend's house when a white guy picked her up in his truck. Instead of taking her where she wanted to go, he asked to make a stop. She was annoyed, but also not in a hurry. She says he parked outside an apartment

[George Hall]

and went in 5, 10 minutes, came back out. And when he came back out, I noticed he had a rope in his pocket hanging out, But I didn't think nothing at the time. And when he got back in the truck, he said. Said he asked me if I want to do some coke with him.

[Maurice Shama]

The guy told Judith Kelling the cocaine was stashed by the side of the road, but then he drove out to a pretty remote spot in the desert. And stopped the truck. She describes how the guy grabbed a rolled up blanket and a shovel out of the truck bed.

[George Hall]

And he took the shovel and he started digging. And he came back, he got the blanket, and he told me he took me. He made me get out the truck. I didn't want. I told him, just take me back. He kept calling me a bitch. He goes, don't turn around, bitch. And I was getting panicky, scared because I thought he was going to try something with me. Then at that point, I knew.

[Maurice Shama]

Kelling says the guy tied her up, threw her down on the blanket and raped her. Also, he kept ordering her to say that she was 14 years old. Then the guy heard some voices nearby. Kelling says he got spooked and sped off in his truck, Leaving her tied up in the middle of nowhere. After the interview, Judith identifies David wood in a photo lineup and takes police to where she was raped. Johnny says it's around 50 yards from where the murder victims were found. Within a few weeks, the police arrest David wood for Kelling's rape. David wood denies ever having raped Judith kelling, But he's convicted and sent to prison. Meanwhile, Johnny continues trying to prove that David wood is also the desert killer. It ends up taking him and the prosecutors more than four years. Their main piece of physical evidence is a collection of orange fibers, Threads, possibly from a blanket. The police find some near one of the victim's bodies in the desert. They find similar ones in a vacuum cleaner at David wood's apartment. The other big thing that helps Johnny? Testimony from those two men who had been in prison with David wood. When wood is finally put on trial for the murders, they both swear under oath that David wood confessed to them that he was the desert killer. Nearly five years after the rape conviction, A jury finds David wood guilty of murder. He's sentenced to death. So, yeah, this is the case that Greg werchuck is trying to fight. A hideous case in which the jury needed less than 90 minutes to hand down a death sentence. A case that, over the course of three decades, Numerous appeals courts have found no reason to question. But greg is adamant that the cops, the prosecutors, the jury, the judges, they all got it wrong. Hey, how's it going?

[Greg Wurchuck]

Alvin.

[George Hall (Prisoner Testimony)]

I'm Greg.

[George Hall]

Nice to meet you.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Nice to meet you.

[Maurice Shama]

My producer, oven melath, and I meet Greg for the first time in mid December 2024 at the El Paso county courthouse. Greg looks a little like a younger dick van dyke, if you know that reference, which Greg would. Tall and wiry, white hair, trim beard, Greg is a law professor at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, where he just flew in from. There's a nervous energy wafting off him.

[Greg Wurchuck]

I mean, should I start from the top?

[Maurice Shama]

Can we just start with what's important

[The Agency Show Promoter]

to you right now?

[Greg Wurchuck]

Yeah, what's important to me right now is I'm hoping to see the incoming District Attorney of El Paso, who was elected in November.

[Maurice Shama]

Greg took on David Wood as a client back in 2009, the first time Wood was scheduled to be executed. Greg managed to get a stay back then, no small feat in Texas. But eventually another execution date got set. So now he's got exactly 87 days to stop it. If you asked Greg, he could rattle off a bunch of holes he sees in the case, including that story from George hall about the jailhouse informants. But an even bigger issue, he tells me, has to do with DNA. After he took the case, he asked the courts to allow the retesting of a few pieces of evidence with newer technology. A piece of a victim's clothing turned up male DNA, and it was not David Wood's DNA. Since then, Greg has been on a mission to get more evidence tested. There are more than 100 other pieces of evidence, but the state of Texas has repeatedly said no. So that's what Greg is focused on today. His plan is to meet with James Montoya, the incoming da, and convince him to support more DNA testing. And that's not all. There's this other thing. I won't bore you with the details of why this happened, but just know that years ago, the El Paso DA handed this whole case off to the Texas Attorney General, a very pro death penalty Republican. So what Greg really wants is for Montoya, a Democrat, to ask for the case back, then ask the courts to halt the execution and then test the DNA. Three huge asks, that's Greg's plan. But maybe it's not accurate to call this a plan. There's no meeting scheduled. In fact, it sounds like Montoya might not even know who Greg is.

[Greg Wurchuck]

I left him the longest text message I've ever sent to anyone about David Wood's case, asking for an opportunity to speak with him. While I was in El Paso, didn't hear back from him. That was about two weeks ago. I left him a voicemail message this morning, told him I'm in El Paso. I flew in from Madison, Wisconsin. Gonna be here for a few days. And I hope that he will speak with me for just a few minutes about David woods case.

[Maurice Shama]

The DA's office is on the second floor of the Courthouse. So we take the elevator up to a waiting area. There's a flat screen TV playing the show Cake Wars. Greg announces himself to a receptionist and we sit. Greg has invited us here, but he's not completely sold yet on being followed around with microphones. Or maybe not sold enough to let us tape him ambushing the next District Attorney of El Paso. So I'm just gonna tell you what happens next. We wait for about 10 minutes, and then a figure sweeps by, a sort of boyish young man in a suit, trailed by an aide. And Greg leaps from his chair. And I realize this is Montoya. The mood turns cringy very fast. Montoya apparently does know who Greg is after all, and says pretty quickly, sorry, but we're not gonna get involved. They don't have the bandwidth. That's the word he uses. Greg says, couldn't we just talk for five minutes? Montoya says he has another meeting. Greg says he came all the way from Wisconsin. And Montoya gets blunt, says, I'm telling you, it's not happening. So Greg changes tack, talking faster now, diving right for the bullet points. There's DNA from someone else. The execution date is just a few months away. They're talking over each other now, like they're performing monologues from two different plays. I'm staring at my hands, fiddling with my wedding ring, and I look over at my producer, Alvin, and he's doing the exact same thing. Greg asks if he can come back in a few weeks, and Montoya says sure, but his answer will still be no. Greg says he'll come back anyway. This all takes less than two minutes, but it's like the awkwardness ripped a hole in the space time continuum. It might as well have been a week. We take the elevator back down, go outside, and turn the recorder back on for a debrief.

[Greg Wurchuck]

That was very discouraging, very disappointing. I had higher hopes that he would be willing to get involved. I wish he could give me 10 or 15 minutes and that I could go through the case in a very calm and logical manner. I mean, I do understand he's taking over an office that's been in a lot of chaos over the last few years. And they also have a huge case coming up, probably the biggest case since David Woods. And it's the Walmart shooting, which is

[Maurice Shama]

the Walmart shooting where 23 people were killed. So, yeah, maybe the newly elected DA has enough to do and wouldn't want to mess with the long awaited execution of El Paso's most notorious serial killer. But There are only 87 days left for Greg to find some way to get Montoya on his side. I ask him if, considering how that interaction just went, he had any realistic hope that Montoya would ever talk to him.

[Greg Wurchuck]

So I'm an optimist. I'm not a naive optimist. But I do hold out hope that Lucy will not pull away the football when I run up to kick it this time. Charlie Brown's my hero.

[Maurice Shama]

Charlie Brown, who keeps trying no matter what Greg tells Alvin and me. He sees wisdom in that approach. In death row cases like this, the second you let yourself get discouraged and give up, you're doomed.

[Greg Wurchuck]

If you're not ready to kick the football with all you've got, the one time Lucy doesn't pull it away and you get cynical about the legal system and its ability to deliver justice, then when the planets align, you're not going to be ready. I actually was surprised that he said I could come back after January 1st to talk with him again.

[Maurice Shama]

You did follow that up by saying you're gonna get the same answer. Getting rid of you, if I may. That was my take.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Well, maybe so, but I'm gonna come back after January 1st, right, Charlie Robb? That's right. That's right.

[Maurice Shama]

The next morning, Alvin and I meet Greg in the lobby of a very beige hotel near the airport. Joining us is another lawyer who got in last night, Jeremy Schupers.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

Greg, how are you?

[Greg Wurchuck]

How you feeling?

[Jeremy Sheppard]

My knee feels like fucking shit from running the marathon, but other than that, not.

[Maurice Shama]

You ran the marathon?

[Jeremy Sheppard]

Yeah, I ran the Dallas marathon Sunday. Work is not punishing enough, so I have to crank out a marathon on my off time on the weekends.

[Maurice Shama]

Jeremy, if you can't tell already, is pretty much a photo negative of Greg. They both grew up in Michigan, but that's where the similarities stop.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

Sort of like process.

[Maurice Shama]

Jeremy is sarcastic where Greg is earnest, a millennial in flannel and jeans, where Greg opts for the jacket and tie. Jeremy is essentially Greg's co captain on this case. He works at a federal public defender office where he runs a capital habeas unit, Chew for short. Chews often get involved in the final run up to an execution, bringing a whole team of lawyers and investigators on board. Today's plan is to try to get the local press interested in their mission to test the DNA. Greg thinks if there are news stories about the problems in David Wood's case, maybe that will push Montoya to meet with him.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Should we all get in the same car?

[Maurice Shama]

So we head to kvia El Paso's ABC station. And it's there, talking to the nightly news anchor that the lawyers get their first glimmer of good news.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

They gave me a fucking forerunner.

[Maurice Shama]

That's after the break. This podcast is supported by bank of America Private Bank.

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[Maurice Shama]

We get to KVIA in the early afternoon. The place is decorated for Christmas. Garland and tinsel everywhere. The nightly news anchor here is named Stephanie Valle and she greets us with a big camera ready smile and walks us into a conference room. Stephanie already knows David Wood's case pretty well. A few years ago, she covered the desert murders on her podcast called Borderland Crimes. Greg heard it and was not a fan. He thought it made his client sound stone cold guilty. But Greg asked for this meeting anyway, so he must think he can sway Stephanie to at least consider his side. Greg wants Stephanie to do a story where she interviews Montoya and asks him pointed questions like why won't he take on the case and why hasn't DNA been tested? Greg himself doesn't want to go on camera. He doesn't want to risk personally antagonizing Montoya. But Stephanie seems skeptical.

[Stephanie Valle]

I can't even suppose to like Think for him, but just as a person. I would think the last thing that the district attorney would want to do is not only have to restructure an office that's been in turmoil for the last four years, but also reopen one of the oldest death penalty cases in El Paso.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Right.

[Stephanie Valle]

But I do feel like if you were to apply that pressure, in other

[Maurice Shama]

words, if Greg were to go on camera and ask the tough questions himself,

[Stephanie Valle]

you raising the question allows me to then turn and ask that question. And so I just feel like if you're the one raising the questions, it would sound better coming from your mouth than mine.

[Maurice Shama]

Greg seems open to this idea, only there's a wrinkle. Stephanie tells us she's leaving the nightly news roughly two weeks from now. She'll no longer be at kvia. Sure, the new anchor could maybe take the story, but there's no guarantee. As they talk about timing, Greg suddenly veers into trying to sell Stephanie on what he sees as the problems in the case.

[Greg Wurchuck]

So George hall was in prison with David Wood.

[Maurice Shama]

And Greg whips out the manila envelope with George Hall's signed declaration inside. He starts quoting from it. A lot of it is pretty dry. Details about George Hall's interactions with the authorities, the terms of his parole, testified

[Greg Wurchuck]

at the Capitol murder trial, and hall and Sweeney.

[Maurice Shama]

I realize this is a version of the pitch he might have given Montoya if he'd gotten a meeting yesterday. It's just a torrent of raw information. It's exhausting.

[Stephanie Valle]

It's. There's a lot. There's a lot wrong with this case. I think the fact that DNA has not been tested and that it's pretty clear that they were using jailhouse witnesses to corroborate a story is. Is a little. It makes me a little uneasy. But I guess I was actually talking about this case with a colleague of mine in another news operation, and he was saying, well, what do you say to the fact that there were no more. No more deaths?

[Greg Wurchuck]

That's not true is what you say.

[Stephanie Valle]

Okay, well, I mean, obviously there were deaths. I mean, everywhere but doing bodies buried in the desert.

[Greg Wurchuck]

And in fact, during the Kappa murder trial, the police discovered a body buried in the desert. And they had an in chambers discussion

[Maurice Shama]

about whether or not this is an important point. Greg is saying, I know people believe this about the case, that David Wood must have done it, because after he was arrested, the police didn't find any more bodies in the desert. But it's not true. They actually did find at least one body while David Wood was on trial. As I'm listening, I realize this is what Greg's up against. A double barrel problem. People think they know it happened, but they're missing crucial information. And while Greg himself has mastered that information, he spent less time figuring out how to distill it into a good

[Greg Wurchuck]

story and said, we've been about a

[Maurice Shama]

half hour into their conversation. Stephanie seems ready to wrap this whole thing up.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Disappearances. Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Stephanie Valle]

Sorry. Because the four o' clock producer is asking me to help her with something.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Do you have to be on air in a second or two?

[Stephanie Valle]

I probably need to go in about 15 minutes.

[Detective John Guerrero]

Okay.

[Greg Wurchuck]

All right.

[Maurice Shama]

As everybody starts packing up, Greg seems to suddenly remember his real goal. He wants to talk to Montoya directly. And a question just pops out of his mouth.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Can you get me a meeting with him?

[Stephanie Valle]

I probably could.

[George Hall]

Are you serious?

[Greg Wurchuck]

You must talk to Greg. Workshop and Jeremy Shepherd's.

[Stephanie Valle]

Yes, I can definitely. I can try and get a meeting with you and him. Yeah, I could probably try and do that. I've been working in this town a long time. Yeah, I can try. I can't promise anything.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Oh, that's wonderful.

[Stephanie Valle]

Yeah, I'll do what I can.

[George Hall]

I'll talk to him.

[Greg Wurchuck]

We're pulling at any string we can, and we'll drop everything, we'll change our flights, whatever.

[Maurice Shama]

So here was my question. Could Stephanie really get Greg a meeting with Montoya, or was that just her polite way of getting rid of them? When we meet up with Greg and Jeremy in the hotel lobby the next morning, it looks like they already have an answer.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Okay, so the background is that Stephanie Valle spoke with James Montoya last night and she was going to send him the podcast. Borderlands podcast may not be the most helpful.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

The David Went as Guilty podcast. Take a.

[Maurice Shama]

Take a listen.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

Let's listen to this.

[Greg Wurchuck]

But in any event, she did talk to him and texted me that he seemed. Well, let me just read the text here. He seemed open to listening. I'm not saying I changed his mind, but he will at least listen to an argument he didn't know there was.

[George Hall (Prisoner Testimony)]

No.

[Maurice Shama]

They're both buzzing, still in shock that Stephanie did this for them. Getting Montoya on board would be huge. It would mean halting the execution. With just weeks to go, there would be time to finally test the DNA. Greg wants to text Montoya immediately. Jeremy says maybe don't text yet. Give Montoya some space. Maybe send him something to read. But Greg wants to strike while the iron is hot. In these little disagreements, Greg, the long timer, gets the final Say so. He begins typing, hunts and pecks with one finger. When Greg said we could follow his team around, I didn't anticipate just how much time we'd spend watching them scrunched around an iPhone. If you squinted, it kind of looked like Alvin and I were documenting two buddies trying to get a second date. It was surreal to think that someone's execution might depend on this.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

This is gonna be the highlight of the podcast.

[Greg Wurchuck]

It says Mr. Montoya. After I met with Stephanie Valle yesterday, she told me that she reached out to you to discuss David woods case. Would you be willing to meet with me and my co counsel Jeremy Sheppard later today or tomorrow before noon? We only need five to ten minutes of your time.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

Sounds great.

[George Hall]

All right.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Ending.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

Off it goes.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Off it goes.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

Greg is the optimist of the group. I might be something else.

[Maurice Shama]

Montoya does not text back. The lawyers leave El Paso. As the year ends, Stephanie's last day at KVIA is coming up. The holidays are approaching, which means, realistically, Greg and Jeremy are going to lose precious days of work before the execution. Greg wants to keep pushing ahead and decides he might as well do the interview. Stephanie sets it up and they tape an interview over Zoom two days after Christmas. A week later, Alvin and I join a weekly video call with the whole defense team around 10 people. There's some chit chat about the holidays and then Greg jumps in with the first agenda item.

[Greg Wurchuck]

I can probably give everybody an update on Stephanie Valle and the interview. So I gave this Zoom interview to Stephanie.

[Maurice Shama]

Greg reports that the interview seemed to go, you know, okay pretty well.

[Greg Wurchuck]

Pretty well.

[Maurice Shama]

But then Stephanie sent him a text

[Greg Wurchuck]

just an hour ago or so saying that the file was corrupted that she was doing on her computer, where she

[Maurice Shama]

was doing, apparently the video recording of their interview got messed up somehow. She was going to ask the IT department to look at her computer, but now, quote, they're saying since it's my last week, they have to wipe it and take it back anyway as part of the off boarding process. She adds, quote, I'm sorry I couldn't help. Greg writes back, oh, my goodness, I'm sorry to hear that. Is there anything I can do? He offers to redo the interview. There might not be enough time to get it on tv, but maybe she could talk about it on her podcast.

[Greg Wurchuck]

And she said, at this point, I can't redo it because I'm in professional limbo and I'll let you know.

[Maurice Shama]

So I assessed Greg's reaction to all of this as 20% disappointment and 80% befuddlement. Jeremy, on the other hand, is 100% not buying it.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

Did you, Greg? Did you ask Stephanie if her dog ate her homework, too, while she was busy making shit up about why she couldn't air this? This feels like one of those zones where the eternal optimist is going to agree with her and the eternal pessimist thinks this is complete and total fucking bullshit. Cold feet about this story.

[Greg Wurchuck]

It did strike me as a bit odd, I will admit to that, Jeremy. And maybe. Maybe she got a better offer than her own podcast after she did this interview. You know, she's not leaving for another week. You'd think they'd be able to fix her computer in the meantime before wiping it.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

Yeah, I wonder if the local ABC station might have more than one laptop computer.

[Maurice Shama]

I could be.

[Jeremy Sheppard]

Could be wrong about their computer outlay, but, I mean, I think kind of like piecing it all together. She probably has some job offer and she thinks she can't run a story on David Wood right now.

[Maurice Shama]

A few days later, Stephanie says goodbye to the nightly news. And then the other shoe finally drops in the form of an Instagram post.

[Stephanie Valle]

Hi, everyone. A lot of you have asked me what I'll be doing now that I'm no longer anchoring KVIA's evening newscasts. Well, starting on Monday, January 6th, I'll be working with the newly elected District Attorney, James Montoya. James wants to bring trust, integrity and transparency back into the District Attorney's office.

[Maurice Shama]

We reached out to Stephanie later on to ask if the file of the interview with Greg really was corrupted. We ran buyer Jeremy's less generous version that it was an excuse. We also asked if she ever really reached out to Montoya on Greg's behalf. She declined the comment. We did get an emailed statement from DA Montoya saying his office had not been involved in this case in more than 30 years. And so, quote, it would be ill advised to insert ourselves into the case now. It's now January. Almost three weeks have passed since we first met Greg. The legal team has 67 days to stop David Wood's execution. The idea of getting James Montoya on board and testing DNA feels more remote than ever. The lawyers can't even get a face to face meeting with him. So now, with two months left, they're going to launch a fresh round of investigation. They have to track down new witnesses.

[Stephanie Valle]

Did your sister tell you a little bit about why we're reaching out?

[Maurice Shama]

Pursue other suspects? I don't remember claiming killed people.

[George Hall (Prisoner Testimony)]

I don't.

[Maurice Shama]

I need a lawyer and try to convince the courts that David Wood really could be innocent. People going to hear about me, they're

[George Hall (Prisoner Testimony)]

going to hate me.

[George Hall]

I get it.

[Maurice Shama]

I'm just a convict in prison saying I'm innocent. And they're going, yeah, right, you lying piece of crap. That's next time on the last 12 weeks. The last 12 weeks is written and reported by me, Maurice Shama and Alvin Melith. Alvin produced the series. Jen Guerra edited the series along with Anita Batijo. Julie Snyder is the executive editor for Serial Productions. Additional editing from Akiba Solomon and Sarah Koenig. Fact checking and research by Ben Phalen. Music supervision by Jen Guerra and Phoebe Wang with mixing by Phoebe Wang. Additional mixing by Katherine Anderson. Tracking direction from Sean Cole. Our associate producer is Mac Miller. Additional production by Anita Badijo. There's a lot about the death penalty that we couldn't fit into this show. Stories from Capitol defense lawyers. A fascinating look at the data behind executions. You can find all of that in our newsletter. Sign up for it at nytimes.com serial newsletter the Marshall Project, where I work, is a nonprofit newsroom that covers the criminal justice system. To learn more, visit themarshallproject.org Original music for this series by Adam Dorn, aka Motion Worker, Matthias Basse and John Evans of Stellwagen Symphonet. Additional music by Dan Powell and Marianne Lozano. Adam Dorn, AKA Motion Worker, composed our theme song. Video production by Sean Devaney. Our Standards editor is Susan Wessling. Legal review from Alamin Sumar and Jackson Bush. The art for our show comes from Pablo Delcon. Sam Dolnick is Deputy Managing Editor of the New York Times. Special thanks to Ruth Baldwin, Frank Baumgartner, Daniel Guillemet, Tom Mayer, Matty Masiello, Abby Perpich, Jennifer Peter, Rita Radostitz and Catrice hardy. The last 12 weeks is a production of Serial Productions, the Marshall Project and the New York Times.

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