The Daily – "The Peace Summit in Egypt, and Shutdown Lessons From U.S.A.I.D."

Date: October 14, 2025
Hosts: Rachel Abrams, Michael Barbaro, Guest: David Sanger, Chris Flavell
Podcast: The New York Times

Episode Overview

This episode examines two major stories:

1. The aftermath of the Middle East peace summit in Egypt following a dramatic hostage exchange between Israel and Hamas, with Donald Trump declaring the end of the Gaza war but leaving many questions unresolved.
2. An investigative account of how the Trump administration abruptly dismantled USAID (the U.S. Agency for International Development), and what this reveals about the administration’s use of a government shutdown as a tool for remaking — or gutting — federal agencies.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Middle East Peace Summit and Hostage Exchange

Scene in Gaza (00:59–02:32):

• Rachel Abrams reports from Tel Aviv on the return of Palestinian prisoners after Hamas released 20 hostages.
• She interviews Mustafa Abu Taha, an English teacher in Gaza, who describes ecstatic scenes as crowds welcome the prisoners:
  • Quote, Mustafa: "I have seen mountains of people... all of them start waving, shouting, dancing. I dance and sang a song. Freedom is back. Freedom is back." (01:20–01:47)
  • Mustafa expresses hope, stating, "the war has come to an end," but after Rachel presses for his feelings, he points to Trump's declaration:
    • "The American president, Donald Trump, said the war is over. War is over. Thank you very much, everybody." (02:13)

Trump’s Declaration and Political Reactions (02:36–06:58):

• Audio from Jerusalem: President Trump, praised for his role in the hostage release, tells the Israeli parliament,
  • Quote, Trump: "This is the historic dawn of a new Middle East." (02:49–03:08)
• Analysis by David Sanger, NYT’s senior Washington correspondent:
  • Trump takes a victory lap, receiving near-universal credit from Israeli policymakers, despite foundational issues being unresolved.
  • Sanger points out Trump’s 20-point plan, which Netanyahu signed under pressure; but Hamas agreed only to the first stage (hostage release), not to disarmament or withdrawal from Gaza.
  • Insight: Trump declares "peace," though the underlying conflict remains, using partial agreement as a full resolution.
  • Trump avoids substantive discussion of Gaza’s future or a two-state solution; focus stays on optics, not policy.
  • At the Egyptian summit in Sharm el Sheikh, Israel and Hamas are absent; results are vague, leaving critical postwar questions unanswered.
  • Quote, Sanger: "This was very Donald Trump, the developer. I'm going to come in with a big concept and then you people can go off and work out the details. The problem is in diplomacy, it frequently doesn't work that way." (07:03)

2. Shutdown Lessons From U.S.A.I.D. — Dismantling a Government Agency

Background: Trump Shutdown and Federal Layoffs (08:09–10:06):

• The federal government shutdown is now in its third week; mass layoffs are announced.
• Michael Barbaro frames the show's central question: What can be learned from the rapid dismantling of USAID, and does it foreshadow similar moves during the shutdown?

The Improvised Demise of USAID (10:06–14:00):

• Chris Flavell, NYT reporter, reconstructed the agency’s destruction:
  • No original plan to kill USAID; events spiraled from loosely worded executive authority, opportunism, and ideological consistency.
  • The government "learned how to wield" extraordinary power during agency dissolution.

Sequence of Key Events:

• (12:20) The Main Players

  • Jason Gray: Recent appointee, out of depth as USAID head; receives confusing executive order to freeze foreign aid.
  • Pete Morocco: Trump loyalist at the State Department; interprets the order as freezing all spending, accuses USAID of violations, and involves "DOGE" (Department of Government Efficiency — an agency tasked with aggressive cuts and staff reductions).

• (15:38) Escalation

  • Morocco visits USAID HQ with DOGE officials. They demand that 57 senior staffers (not all related to the alleged violations) are put on administrative leave, effectively "decapitating" agency leadership.

• (18:50) Pushback and Retaliation

  • Nick Gottlieb, agency’s chief for employee relations, finds the evidence for these purges to be "painfully thin." He refuses to keep staff on leave and threatens to report DOGE's actions to the Office of Special Counsel.
  • Quote, Chris Flavell: "He sends a memo to Jason Gray ... he will report DOGE's actions to the Office of Special Counsel, which investigates wrongdoing and protects whistleblowers..." (19:24)
  • DOGE and Trump loyalists view this as insubordination, leading to Gottlieb’s removal and demonstration of "deep state" suspicions.

• (22:14) Order to Lock Out Staff

  • DOGE tells Jason Gray to lock out all global USAID staff from email/phones. Gray refuses, citing life-or-death risk for field workers (in war zones, health crises), and is removed the next morning.

• (25:00–27:19) The Death Knell

  • DOGE agents erase USAID’s public face — shut down website, social media, staff access.
  • Elon Musk tweets: “usaid is a criminal organization. Time for it to die.” (26:19)
  • Further: "we spent the weekend feeding USAID into the wood chipper. Could gone to some great parties, did that instead." (27:20)
  • State Department notifies Congress: USAID is to be reorganized/wound down/abolished.

Summary of the Collapse (28:00–29:33):

• Michael Barbaro recaps: a loosely worded order leads to hyper-vigilance about agency compliance, ideological suspicion, then retaliatory purges and destruction, triggered by relatively normal pushback.
• Insight: Aggressive actions and animus against "deep state" civil servants reinforced policy goals, accelerating agency shutdown.

Lessons for the Ongoing Shutdown (30:36–33:31):

• Any agency is vulnerable, especially those viewed as antithetical to administration ideology.
• Flavell: "the greater the resistance from people inside... the greater the pain, the trauma and the gutting resulted." (30:36)
• Staff learned that resistance could backfire disastrously; compliance—or at least keeping one’s head down—is seen as safer.
• Administration learned its power to act unilaterally, especially in a shutdown, is greater than many believed.

Global and Domestic Consequences of USAID’s Elimination (33:32–35:23):

• International: major reductions in global health, famine relief, democracy-building, and infrastructure aid; "looks like the opposite of progress all over the world."
• Domestic: U.S. public barely registers the agency’s absence.
  • Quote, Flavell: "I think the answer is probably, what was USAID again?" (35:23)

Final Reflection on Trump’s Approach (35:23–36:23):

• Barbaro and Flavell note Trump’s gamble that gutting a major agency with minimal public backlash would succeed, potentially emboldening similar moves against other “Democrat agencies.”
• Quote, Flavell: "It showed the genius of Trump to recognize ... he could do what almost no president has done and end a major agency and gamble that it wouldn't cost him any meaningful blowback from the public. And as of now, it looks like he was right." (35:23)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Mustafa Abu Taha (Gaza):
  • "All of them start waving, shouting, dancing. I dance and sang a song. Freedom is back. Freedom is back." (01:20–01:47)
• David Sanger:
  • "Trump just took a partial yes as an answer and said that constitutes a peace agreement, which it didn’t." (04:34)
  • "This was very Donald Trump, the developer... In diplomacy, it frequently doesn't work that way." (07:03)
• Chris Flavell:
  • "No original plan to kill off USAID, at least not at first. It happened a little bit on the fly..." (10:06)
  • "It was really the senior, most people in leadership roles from around the agency... it came to look like an attempt to decapitate USAID." (17:58)
  • "This starts to look a lot like the deep state. And it set the tone for what happened next." (21:24)
  • "He said people could die. And that to him was line he wouldn't cross." (22:45)
  • On the agency's destruction: "Over this weekend, you can tell that USAID is in real trouble... akin to the face of USAID being erased." (25:00)
  • "USAID wasn't ready for them... they underestimated the degree to which officials would feel sort of personally chagrined when they said no to their demands." (30:53)
• Elon Musk (tweet):
  • "USAID is a criminal organization. Time for it to die." (26:19)
  • "We spent the weekend feeding USAID into the wood chipper." (27:20)

Important Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp Range | |-----------------------------------------------|----------------------| | Prisoner return scenes in Gaza | 00:59–02:32 | | Trump's speech in Jerusalem, victory lap | 02:36–06:58 | | Egypt peace summit, lack of substance | 06:58–07:56 | | Shutdown introduction, USAID set up | 08:09–10:06 | | Inside USAID’s demise, main actors | 12:20–18:36 | | Degeneration: DOGE, internal resistance | 18:50–22:45 | | Purge, Musk tweets, USAID erased | 25:00–27:19 | | Aftermath, summary lessons | 28:00–36:23 |

Tone and Language

The tone is urgent, factual, and at times incredulous as journalists grapple with the speed and, at times, improvisational nature of major geopolitical and bureaucratic shifts. Speaker voices are retained—quotes are emotive and revealing, particularly from interviewees on the ground in Gaza and inside USAID. The coverage underscores high stakes, chaotic process, and historical consequences, both abroad and for the structure of the U.S. government.

Summary Takeaways

• Peace in the Middle East remains elusive despite landmark hostages/prisoner swaps and political grandstanding. Trump's declaration of peace is more symbolic than substantive.
• The dismantling of USAID was more improvised than planned—driven by a mixture of confusion, ideological animus, opportunism, and a culture of retribution against perceived insubordination.
• A key lesson: agency resistance can be weaponized to justify more radical actions, and the administration's willingness to act decisively is only reinforced by the lack of public backlash.
• International and humanitarian consequences are immediate and severe, but domestic awareness or concern is low.
• Looking ahead, the precedent set by USAID’s destruction indicates that other agencies may be targeted, especially given the expanded powers a shutdown gives the executive branch.

This episode is essential listening for anyone seeking to understand the intersection of U.S. domestic politics, foreign policy, and the mechanisms of power during major transitions.