The Texas Village Rethinking Homelessness

Summary

Summary of "The Texas Village Rethinking Homelessness" – The Daily Podcast

Introduction

In the December 6, 2024 episode of The Daily by The New York Times, host Michael Barbaro delves into a groundbreaking initiative addressing chronic homelessness in Austin, Texas. Reporter Lucy Tompkins explores Community First Village, a multimillion-dollar project conceived by local businessman Alan Graham, aimed at providing sustainable housing solutions for the chronically homeless—a population often overlooked by traditional shelter systems.

Understanding Chronic Homelessness

Lucy Tompkins begins by defining chronic homelessness, emphasizing that it typically involves individuals with disabilities, such as mental illness, addiction, or physical disabilities, who have experienced prolonged or repeated homelessness (02:25). She highlights the challenges major American cities face in addressing this issue, noting that conventional approaches often offer only temporary shelter solutions that fail to provide long-term stability.

The Genesis of Community First Village

The concept of Community First Village was born from Alan Graham's personal experiences and observations. Growing up in Houston, Alan faced the difficulties of caring for his mother with mental illness (07:35). His background instilled in him a deep empathy for those battling similar struggles. Moving to Austin in the mid-1990s, Alan became a successful real estate developer. However, a personal seeking for meaning led him to serve meals to the homeless, where he recognized the cyclical nature of homelessness and the lack of effective solutions (08:27).

During a reflective moment on ranch land, Alan envisioned a mobile home park tailored specifically for the chronically homeless, fostering a sense of community and independence (09:43). He approached the Austin mayor with his proposal, which initially received enthusiastic support. However, local opposition from neighbors concerned about property values and safety led the city council to halt the project (10:51).

Undeterred, Alan leveraged his business acumen to raise $20 million and established Community First Village just outside Austin's city limits in 2015 (12:04). The village rapidly grew, transitioning from canvas tents to hundreds of RVs, accommodating a significant portion of Austin's chronically homeless population.

Operational Model and Philosophy

Community First Village operates on a unique model that emphasizes both independence and community support. Most residences are tiny homes or RVs without individual kitchens or bathrooms, promoting shared communal spaces where residents must interact for daily activities like cooking and laundry (12:49). Alan Graham explains, "When somebody gets bedbugs, which is common, or roaches or whatever, without the shared walls, it doesn't infiltrate next door..." (14:01).

The village enforces minimal yet essential rules to maintain harmony. Residents are required to pay rent, typically around $400 a month, fostering a sense of ownership and responsibility (17:05). While there are restrictions on public drug and alcohol use to prevent disturbances, there is no sobriety requirement, allowing residents to manage their personal challenges (17:58).

Challenges and Community Dynamics

Despite its successes, Community First Village faces ongoing challenges. The balance between providing a supportive environment and enforcing community standards is delicate. Alan Graham acknowledges the difficulty in maintaining this balance, stating, "To have a lot of grace and mercy along with standards in the community is pretty, pretty difficult" (18:42).

The village has seen some evictions, with 22 residents removed this year for rule violations (18:58). However, the majority of residents remain long-term, some for years or even lifetimes, benefiting from the stability and community support the village offers (19:25).

Expansion and Recognition

Recognizing its success, the City of Austin and the federal government have invested further into Community First Village. A $225 million expansion aims to increase capacity to 2,000 residents, addressing half of Austin's chronic homelessness (19:50). This expansion underscores the model's effectiveness and the potential for broader application.

Personal Stories: Justin Tyler Jr.

The podcast features the poignant story of Justin Tyler Jr., a resident who illustrates both the successes and limitations of the Community First model. Justin's journey from homelessness to stability was marked by significant milestones, such as securing a job within the community and reconnecting with his family (25:30). However, his ongoing struggle with alcoholism highlights the complexity of chronic homelessness. Justin's near-fatal drinking binge and subsequent five-month sobriety underscore the non-linear nature of recovery (29:36).

Michael Barbaro raises critical questions about the Community First model through Justin's experience: "Is Community First supporting him or is it enabling him?" (30:44). Lucy Tompkins reflects on the importance of recognizing the continuous and multifaceted challenges residents face, suggesting that success isn't always linear (31:46).

Philosophical Underpinnings and Societal Implications

Alan Graham articulates a sobering perspective on homelessness, comparing the societal systems to a river with rapids: "We are down at the end of this deal fishing people out of these raging rapids to keep them from drowning" (32:16). He advocates for a palliative care approach, focusing on alleviating suffering rather than attempting to "fix and repair" systemic issues (33:00).

The Village's model challenges conventional expectations of "success" in homelessness solutions, positing that long-term support and acceptance of residents' complex needs are essential for meaningful progress (34:26). This approach confronts the limitations of temporary fixes and emphasizes the necessity of sustainable, compassionate care.

Conclusion

The episode concludes by affirming the significance of Community First Village as a pioneering model in addressing chronic homelessness. While it showcases notable successes in providing stability and community, it also highlights the ongoing struggles residents face, underscoring the need for comprehensive, empathetic approaches to homelessness.

Notable Quotes

• Alan Graham on community standards: "To have a lot of grace and mercy along with standards in the community is pretty, pretty difficult." (18:42)
• Justin Tyler Jr. on his transformation: "This place changed my life... I'm going to keep on doing it, you know, talk to whoever needs to be talked to, do whatever job needs to be done." (27:47)
• Alan Graham on societal systems: "Everybody thinks if you stick people into housing that it's going to solve all their problems." (33:00)

Final Thoughts

Lucy Tompkins emphasizes that addressing chronic homelessness requires acknowledging the persistent and complex challenges individuals face. Community First Village offers a compassionate, albeit imperfect, solution that balances support with independence, providing valuable insights into effective homelessness interventions.

Transcript

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[Will Winn]

From.

[Michael Balbaro]

The new York Times, I'm Michael Balbaro. This is the Daily in Austin, Texas. A local businessman has undertaken one of the nation's biggest and boldest efforts to confront the crisis of chronic homelessness. Today, Lucy Tompkins takes us inside the multimillion dollar experiment to understand both its promise and its peril. It's Friday, December six. Lucy, thank you for coming to the studio.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Thanks for having me, Michael.

[Michael Balbaro]

So I want to start by asking you, how did you come to the story of this social experiment that's been happening in Texas?

[Lucy Tompkins]

Yeah. So I write about homelessness, and I think it's fair to say in this topic and in journalism in general, a lot of the stories are very focused on what's going wrong, how intractable this problem is, how it's growing. But part of my job is also to look for examples of where we're making progress. And I moved to Austin a few years ago, and as I started talking to people about homelessness there, I kept hearing about this community on the outskirts of town that people said was a really creative and successful and impressive way of housing. Some of the most difficult to house people who live on the streets, the chronically homeless.

[Michael Balbaro]

And just describe that population, what that.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Word really means, that's a federal definition, and it refers to people who have a disability, like mental illness, addiction, or a physical disability, and who've lived on the streets for more than a year or repeatedly.

[Michael Balbaro]

And it would seem like a population that a lot of major American cities are really having a hard time grappling with.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Yeah, these are the people who, when you think about encampments in la, people who are really visibly living on the streets, this is that population. They make up about a third of the total homeless population, but they're the most visible. And over the last few years, communities have really been struggling with how to address growing tent encampments. And some places have taken a more punitive approach to getting people. And usually what people are offered is a temporary shelter bed. That doesn't really address this underlying problem of where Are people going to live long term? And that's what made me really interested in this village on the outskirts of Austin called Community First Village, which people had been telling me was tackling this problem in a different and better way than anything else out there. So I was intrigued, but also a little bit skeptical and wanted to go and see it for myself. We're driving out of town. It's like a 15 minute drive from downtown, and we're definitely getting out of the city.

[Michael Balbaro]

And what did you see when you first went out there to see it yourself?

[Lucy Tompkins]

It was as surprising as people made it sound.

[Podcast Sponsor]

All right, here we are.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Welcome.

[Podcast Sponsor]

Community First Village. Wow, it's really cute.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Yeah, it is really cute. I've now been back to Community First a handful of times, most recently with daily producer Olivia Natty. All right, let's go. And when you show up, you really feel like you're kind of entering another realm. It's very quiet. There's not a lot of people out right now. Somebody's planting. It's a peach tree. Good morning. Everybody says morning to each other. It's beautifully landscaped. There's plants and flowers and trees. There's a farm with chickens and vegetables. It's colorful. There's all these tiny homes and mobile homes packed together neatly, and they've sort of filled in the suburban neighborhood with all these other services. We're walking by the hair salon right now. There's a building for elder care for a community care paramedic. It feels like a cheerful place to live, and that's not what I was used to seeing in covering homelessness, but amid all this charm. So we just walked by a house that has a front porch with a lot of clothes hanging on the. On the railings, and there's a dog. There are lots of reminders of who this community actually serves. There's the sheriff's vehicle driving by. Often when I've come here, there've been emergency vehicles, ambulances. That is a common. And then every once in a while walking around, you'll see someone without shoes or pushing a shopping cart full of stuff. Some people are walking around barefoot or talking to themselves, and it's easy to see that the people who live here are dealing with a lot of different complex problems.

[Michael Balbaro]

So, Lucy, how does this very unique sounding concept of community first, how did it come to be, and what exactly is the philosophy behind it?

[Lucy Tompkins]

The best way to understand how community first came to be is through the guy who invented it, Alan Graham. And could you tell me a little bit about your Just background. I sat down with him in his home, which is actually in the middle of the village.

[Alan Graham]

So you want to go way back?

[Lucy Tompkins]

Way back, yeah. In a mobile home where he lives with his wife. And he kind of walked me through where all this started. Growing up in Houston, he had a mom who struggled with mental illness.

[Alan Graham]

You know, had a nervous breakdown, a big one, when I was about 4 years old and was institutionalized.

[Lucy Tompkins]

That was really difficult for him to see. And his parents eventually separated. And then as he got older, by.

[Alan Graham]

The time I turned 18, I became her custodial caretaker, and I had to have her institutionalized because she was not able to live alone and independently.

[Lucy Tompkins]

He ended up having to take care of his mom himself because of her mental illness. And all of this left a deep impression on him and I think made him more empathetic toward people struggling with similar issues. Eventually, Allen moves to Austin.

[Alan Graham]

Now this is the mid-90s, and things are looking good.

[Lucy Tompkins]

I'm developing air cargo facilities, life together, and becomes this really successful real estate.

[Alan Graham]

Developer in a way, starting to become the hotshot that I wanted to be, the Donald Trump of old.

[Lucy Tompkins]

But at some point, he said he was starting to ask what else he could do that might be more meaningful. And he attends this men's retreat through his church.

[Alan Graham]

And had I known that men were going to hold hands and pray and, God forbid, do that bromance, hug it out thing that we do, I would have never gone. But there was a feeling of an extraordinary presence of the Holy Spirit, and I was jazzed to the hilt.

[Lucy Tompkins]

And he has a sort of religious awakening and eventually starts serving meals once a week to homeless Austinites to take.

[Alan Graham]

Things from those of us that have abundance to those that lack abundance.

[Lucy Tompkins]

And as he's serving meals year after year, he really gets to know the people who were living on Austin streets, and he notices that they're there year after year, and he gets really frustrated that nobody seems to be actually helping to move people into homes. And then one day, he's out at some ranch land, and there's an RV parked there and staring at it. He has what he describes as an epiphany.

[Alan Graham]

I thought, you know, I could live as a single male or a female in something like this. There's dignity here.

[Lucy Tompkins]

What if he could create a mobile home park specifically for the chronically homeless, where everybody has sort of a shared history and where you could sort of foster a sense of community that. That could help people remain stable.

[Michael Balbaro]

Hmm. So how does he go about trying to take that philosophy and this idea he has of an RV community for the chronically homeless, and all of a sudden, make it a thing, make it a reality.

[Lucy Tompkins]

So he goes to the mayor and proposes an idea. He says, if you give me the land or lease me the land, I'll make this project happen. I'll raise the money, I'll manage it, and we can do it wherever there's space.

[Alan Graham]

And when I was done with that presentation, the mayor looked at me and said, we need four of these in Austin.

[Lucy Tompkins]

The mayor likes the idea. He agrees to it. The city Council unanimously approves giving Allen this land. Things are moving forward. But then when the neighbors find out, they, as you might imagine, are not very happy about it.

[Will Winn]

Good morning.

[Alan Graham]

I'm Austin Mayor Will win. It's my privilege to welcome.

[Lucy Tompkins]

So they raise all these objections in neighborhood meetings and before the city Council.

[Podcast Sponsor]

I'm here representing the Lincoln Gardens Neighborhood Association. Our opposition to the Herald Court project is not motivated solely by the knot in the back my backyard mentality.

[Lucy Tompkins]

They're worried about their property values. They're worried about drug use. The idea of moving a population of.

[Podcast Sponsor]

Homeless individuals into a Leopard Colony style camp in a single family residential neighborhood.

[Lucy Tompkins]

At the edge of the city is a fundamentally flawed idea with a potential.

[Podcast Sponsor]

For serious harm to the camp's homeless population and the neighborhood in which it is placed.

[Lucy Tompkins]

They think putting all of these people with the same issues in one place is concentrating poverty and trauma. And in the face of all that, the City council backtracks.

[Alan Graham]

We stand adjourned.

[Lucy Tompkins]

It is 8:01pm and puts the project on hold.

[Alan Graham]

Everybody thought the deal was dead, but I don't die easy, man. So.

[Lucy Tompkins]

But Allen is undeterred, and he finds a way. So he leverages all his business connections and raises $20 million, and he decides to buy a piece of land just outside the city limits. So in 2015, Community First Village becomes a reality. He moves the first people in. At first, they're just living in canvas tents, but then soon he buys used RVs, and it grows really quickly into hundreds of people.

[Michael Balbaro]

So now that we understand how community first came to be, walk us through how exactly this village serves this population that's so hard to serve. What are the nuts and bolts of how it operates?

[Lucy Tompkins]

Alan believes that the main cause of chronic homelessness and what's at the root of it for a lot of people is a loss of family. And so this community is built in a way that kind of forces all of these close social connections. Most of the homes are tiny homes that don't have their own kitchens or bathrooms. Partly that's because they're cheaper and quicker and easier to build.

[Alan Graham]

But many of our neighbors cannot navigate the social geography of a shared wall. So the idea of building an apartment structure, which can kind of be more efficient in terms of providing everybody with utilities, creates an environment that is very difficult for many people to live in.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Alan also says that this type of housing is just better suited to people who've lived on the streets for a long time. Every resident gets their own standalone home, which makes it easier for them to have their own space and easier for Allen and the organizers to be a little more hands off about what goes on in there.

[Alan Graham]

When somebody gets bedbugs, which is common, or roaches or whatever, without the shared walls, it doesn't infiltrate next door, and.

[Lucy Tompkins]

There'S less chance of bothering your neighbor if you're having an episode or something in your own home. It gives people a little bit more independence.

[Alan Graham]

When I was dreaming about this thing and the idea of building an RV park, I realized that in an RV park, people were coming out of these small spaces, cooking burgers together, going to the movie night in the RV parks. And so we were trying to recreate that inherent sense of community.

[Lucy Tompkins]

But Alan also says that this helps kind of force people to go outside of their homes and interact with their neighbors. Literally, if you need to go to the bathroom, you need to do laundry, you want to cook a meal, you have to leave your home and go and be in a shared public space. And there are also events that happen every week, like, for instance, every Thursday.

[Podcast Sponsor]

All right, so with that, Charles is.

[Will Winn]

Going to pray for us.

[Lucy Tompkins]

There's the Steiner Ranch dinner.

[Alan Graham]

Lord, we just thank you, Lord, for your salvation, your great mercy, your great love.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Once.

[Alan Graham]

Can we.

[Lucy Tompkins]

I attended one of these dinners with Olivia, and we watched as dozens of people came out of their homes and lined up. Amen. Amen.

[Alan Graham]

One beef, one chicken.

[Lucy Tompkins]

And then they all sat down at these communal picnic tables with each other, and they were chatting and catching each other up. So is it okay if I record your voice for you want the sexy.

[Alan Graham]

One or do you want the serious one?

[Lucy Tompkins]

Tell us your name.

[Alan Graham]

Smiles.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Where were you living before you moved to Community First North.

[Alan Graham]

I lived in Houston, Texas, for 42 years.

[Lucy Tompkins]

I was married for 27 of those.

[Alan Graham]

My daughter is older than you.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Are you still in touch with her?

[Will Winn]

No.

[Alan Graham]

She's better off without me.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Some people got extra plates of food to bring back to a friend who, for whatever reason, couldn't leave their home that night.

[Alan Graham]

By the way, that's where that plate's going. Her name is Stacy. She lives two houses down from me. She's in the hospital right now, so I'm gonna refrigerate it. That way, whenever she gets out, she has something to eat.

[Lucy Tompkins]

There was really a sense of taking care of each other.

[Michael Balbaro]

You're describing all these social functions that would seem to keep people connected to each other within this community. I'm curious what kind of rules are in place to hold it all together?

[Lucy Tompkins]

There are rules, but maybe not the kinds of rules that you'd expect. The first one is you have to pay rent. How to move into this community, you have to have some kind of income. So for most people, that's government benefits, ssi, disability. People aren't making much, but it's enough to pay the rent, which is usually around $400 a month.

[Alan Graham]

Our neighbors take care of this place because they are invest into this place and they're invested into the culture of this place, which means one must pay rent. Now, everybody doesn't, but most people do.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Which Allen sees as creating a sense of ownership and responsibility in the community. There are also some behavioral rules. There's no drinking or drug use allowed out in the open.

[Alan Graham]

But look, if you want to smoke crack, go smoke crack. I'm not getting into your business. It's none of my business to be in your business.

[Lucy Tompkins]

There's no sobriety requirement. They know that people will be using substances here, and for the most part, just let that be. Their concern is less with kind of individual actions and more with how it affects the broader community. If drug use or alcohol use is starting to disturb neighbors or if someone's selling drugs in the community, that's all cause for some kind of punishment, but otherwise it's pretty hands off.

[Michael Balbaro]

And how often is someone reprimanded or even removed from this community?

[Lucy Tompkins]

I don't know how often people are reprimanded, but there are fines that they charge for breaking little rules. People do have to leave. Sometimes people do get kicked out of the community. This year so far, they've evicted 22 people.

[Alan Graham]

You develop relationships with people and you have a compassion for them, but you also have to have. In order to maintain a community, you have to have some community standards, and that is extremely difficult to navigate. To have a lot of grace and mercy along with standards in the community is pretty, pretty difficult.

[Lucy Tompkins]

But most people do stay and live in the community for years. Some stay the rest of their lives. And these rules and this culture that they sort of maintain have made it possible to grow this community in the way that Alan dreamed.

[Michael Balbaro]

From what you just said, this sounds like a success.

[Lucy Tompkins]

It is. And the city of Austin thinks so and is depending on them now to be a big part of their homelessness system. The federal government has also bought into the project and now they're in the middle of a huge expansion, a $225 million expansion. They have two new pieces of land and they're planning to grow to house 2,000 people, which is about half the chronically homeless population in Austin right now. But in spending time here and seeing what success looks like for the residents of Community First, I think it also requires sort of a shift in what that means for the people who live in this community. Success for them is a much more complicated and messy story.

[Will Winn]

My name is Justin Tyler Jr. And.

[Lucy Tompkins]

We really saw that in hanging out with this one guy.

[Will Winn]

That's about it. I'm nothing special. I got no title.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Justin Tyler Jr.

[Michael Balbaro]

We'll be right back.

[Podcast Sponsor]

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[Lucy Tompkins]

My name is Kareem and I have a teenage son. I encourage him to be careful on social media, but also as a parent, you know, my job is to make sure he's doing the right thing.

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With private by default accounts for teen users. Teens need to accept new followers and people who don't follow them can't see their content or interact with them. Learn [e-mail] teenaccounts I gave my brother a New York Times subscription.

[Will Winn]

She sent me a year long subscription so I have access to all the games. We'll do Wordle Ninny Spelling bee.

[Podcast Sponsor]

It has given us a personal connection.

[Lucy Tompkins]

We exchange articles and so having read.

[Michael Balbaro]

The same article, we can discuss it.

[Lucy Tompkins]

The coverage, the options.

[Will Winn]

It's not just news.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Such a diversified disc. I was really excited to give him a New York Times cooking subscription so that we could share recipes and we even just shared a recipe the other day. The New York Times contributes to our quality time together.

[Will Winn]

You have all of that information at your fingertips.

[Lucy Tompkins]

It enriches our relationship, broadening our horizons.

[Alan Graham]

It was such a cool and thoughtful gift. We're reading the same stuff, we're making.

[Michael Balbaro]

The same food, we're on the same page.

[Podcast Sponsor]

Connect even more with someone you care about.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Learn more about giving a New York.

[Podcast Sponsor]

Times subscription as a [e-mail] gift get a special rate if you act before December 26th.

[Michael Balbaro]

So, Lucy, just before the break, you had mentioned Justin Tyler and how his story complicates what feels like the visible success you observed at Community First. So where does his story begin?

[Lucy Tompkins]

So I was interested in meeting with Justin because he was relatively new@community first. He'd only been there about nine months when I first met with him. Well, maybe let's go back and you can tell me a little bit about where you're from and where you grew up.

[Will Winn]

Mainly grew up in Round Rock, Texas, just right down the road.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Okay. He said he grew up in a military family, so he was moving around a lot as a kid.

[Will Winn]

You know, for a while there, I was into the whole Jack Kerouac part of life, where it was just wandering around and I was that rambling teenager. I wanted to hurry the hell up and get out. So probably about age 15, 16, started hopping on greyhounds and just going wherever I had.

[Lucy Tompkins]

He struggled in school. He ended up dropping out and picking up work really young.

[Will Winn]

I had a good girlfriend at the time who was like a high school sweetheart who I wound up marrying.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Then he married young and had two sons. But he said he was struggling with drinking, and he'd go on what he described as pretty regular benders. And by his late 20s, his marriage was falling apart.

[Will Winn]

You know, right after I got divorced, I kind of just. I didn't know what the hell I was going to do.

[Lucy Tompkins]

And he said this is really the destabilizing event for him that starts his experience of homelessness.

[Will Winn]

I just got in the car and realized I didn't have anywhere to stay, so I kind of just stayed in my car. And then the very first time I lost my car and it actually stayed on the street, that was probably, I don't know, maybe about eight years ago or so.

[Lucy Tompkins]

He starts kind of working odd jobs and living a nomadic lifestyle. He works as a trucker. He works in fast food restaurants. Eventually, he ends up sleeping on the streets. And his health gets worse.

[Will Winn]

Yeah, I just kind of started just giving up on everything. My health kind of went to shit. And then I started drinking a whole lot, so I didn't help the body situation anymore.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Yeah, his drinking gets worse, and he is sleeping on a bench and doesn't really see a way out of this for himself.

[Will Winn]

I started talking to some people like, that were trying to help on the streets, and I did whatever they asked. You know, I just didn't want to be on the streets anymore. It wasn't the romantic story of wandering anymore.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Yeah. That's when he meets a social worker who introduces him to the folks at Community first and helps him apply to get in there.

[Michael Balbaro]

And how was he doing at Community First?

[Lucy Tompkins]

He was still getting settled and adjusting to life there, but he had a job on site that he really liked. He was working as sort of an ambassador for new people who moved into the vill. He was paying his rent with money from that, and he was able to host his sons overnight.

[Will Winn]

My youngest was like, damn, dad, you snore. I was like, I've never heard you sleep.

[Lucy Tompkins]

I was like, wow.

[Podcast Sponsor]

Oh, yeah.

[Will Winn]

I didn't even think about that because whenever I had.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Which is the first time he'd been able to do that in a decade since he'd become homeless.

[Michael Balbaro]

Wow. So a really big personal milestone.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Definitely. Have you used the, like, recovery services at all here?

[Will Winn]

That part of my life is still just up in the air, you know, I'm still gonna drink. I know it's a problem. I know the triggers and stuff. Once you go do your little 28 days or whatever, you get a different grasp on it. But I have tried almost everything.

[Lucy Tompkins]

He was still drinking pretty heavily. He knew AA was available, but he wasn't really interested at that point in getting sober. But then in May.

[Podcast Sponsor]

Okay.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Good morning.

[Podcast Sponsor]

Check, check.

[Lucy Tompkins]

We're a Community First Daily producer. Olivia Natt and I went back to Community First. How are you doing?

[Will Winn]

I'm doing good, actually. Yeah? Yeah.

[Lucy Tompkins]

I mean, he talked about himself staying there long term. He had relationships with his neighbors.

[Will Winn]

This place changed my life. I mean, I don't know if it necessarily saved my life. It might have because I was. There was a few times, I mean, right before I got here, where I was, I was like, man, I don't know how much more my body's gonna take or how much my mind's gonna take, but this place is awesome. I mean, I'm not trying to sell anything. It just really just taking advantage of it. And I love it, and I'm going to keep on doing it, you know, talk to whoever needs to be talked to, do whatever job needs to be done.

[Lucy Tompkins]

He seemed a lot more settled into the community and had come to kind of think of himself as the neighborhood dad. He was barbecuing for his neighbors on Sundays. Definitely was talking about this place in a more permanent way. But he also said he was still struggling with his drinking, and it wasn't really clear what path he was on to recovery, if anything.

[Will Winn]

Funny story. My mom just asked recently, when she was here. Horrible question for a mom to ask, but she was like, well, if you do pass before us, what do you want done? And I was like, just.

[Lucy Tompkins]

It seemed like he was holding onto stability, but a little bit shakily.

[Podcast Sponsor]

Why do you think your mom asked you that question?

[Will Winn]

I live rough. I think she's always been worried that she's gonna watch her son die, which is, you know, speaking from a parent's point of view now, that's the most horrible thing in the world.

[Lucy Tompkins]

And it sounded like his loved ones were still holding their breath.

[Michael Balbaro]

Hello?

[Lucy Tompkins]

Hey, Justin. It's Lucy.

[Will Winn]

Hey, Lucy.

[Lucy Tompkins]

And a couple days ago, I called Justin to check in on him.

[Will Winn]

Went on pretty bad little bender for, like, two weeks. And it got so bad that my body just said, no more.

[Lucy Tompkins]

And a lot had changed since we had seen each other in May.

[Will Winn]

Nobody was holding me accountable. I wasn't holding myself accountable. I just kept on just letting it get worse and worse. And so I got to the point where I had the money and I had the capability of just ordering bottles of whiskey. So I wasn't even at the end, like, getting up and going and getting it. I was just.

[Lucy Tompkins]

He said soon after we had seen him drinking, took over where he wasn't really leaving his house. He was ordering bottles of whiskey to be delivered to him. Things just got really dark, and he eventually decided to try to quit cold turkey. And that went really badly. His body just couldn't handle it.

[Will Winn]

It went from, do you want to go to the hospital? To which hospital are we taking you to? Because you have to go now because we've just watched you have too many strokes.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Wow. He stayed in the ICU for several days, and then when he got out. Have you been sober this long before?

[Will Winn]

No, the longest I think I've ever gone is maybe a little bit over a month.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Wow. I think he just felt like if he kept drinking, it would kill him. And he's now been sober for five months, which is the longest he's ever gone without drinking.

[Michael Balbaro]

I mean, it's a very sad situation. He almost died. And that makes me think about the meaning and effectiveness of this model of community. First. I mean, on the one hand, in Justin's story, you clearly see that the absence of really strict rules and standards around sobriety mean that he is able to drink this way and almost drink himself to death. But on the other hand, before that, he had been making all the progress you described. His kids are able to stay over, which is wonderful. And even after he gets out of the er, he's back in the community, and it's creating a space for him to try to get back on his feet, which no doubt would be all the harder if he were on the streets. And so those two sides of this story, they can feel hard to reconcile. Right? I mean, is community first supporting him and. Or is it enabling him?

[Lucy Tompkins]

Yeah, I think that's one of the tough parts about reporting on this topic is we tend to lose sight of the fact that people are dealing with really serious ongoing issues and their progress isn't linear. And Justin's story is a reminder of that. But I think what Alan would say to your question of is this place ultimately helping people and how to look at this balance? I think he'd say you're thinking about this the wrong way.

[Alan Graham]

Foster care system is a train wreck in our country. The mental health care system, the physical health care system, the criminal justice system, our education system. You know, if you look at this as a flowing river that's got rapids in it, we're down at the end of this deal fishing people out of these raging rapids to keep them from drowning. That's where we are.

[Lucy Tompkins]

He recognizes that people moving into community first are coming in with all these wounds from living on the streets for usually a decade, plus the, you know, health issues or addictions or family trauma that got them there in the first place.

[Alan Graham]

Everybody thinks if you stick people into housing that it's going to solve all their problems. And I'm just telling you that that's not the case.

[Lucy Tompkins]

And when they move into community first, all of that doesn't go away. I think what Alan is doing with this model is accepting that and saying we can't fix all of that at this point.

[Alan Graham]

My original motivation was palliative, which is the relieving of the suffering associated with disease without pursuing the cure for the disease.

[Lucy Tompkins]

He really feels like what serves this group of people best is a palliative care model.

[Michael Balbaro]

Can you just explain that that word, palliative care means something pretty specific to most people? It means end of life care. It means hospice, and therefore, it's a little bit of a confusing word to use when talking about homelessness.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Yeah. And I think he does mean it that way.

[Alan Graham]

This isn't ever going to be a model that's a fix and repair model that's gonna come in and retrain people to be a computer technician or something and then pop them out into the real world.

[Lucy Tompkins]

I think the idea of success that a lot of people have in their minds doesn't really apply to this community. And I think in many ways, Alan and his model see those expectations as well meaning, but ultimately unrealistic.

[Alan Graham]

This is a very complex group of people with a myriad of very, very complex issues. They will have to be subsidized for the rest of their lives. And we just have to come to grips with that as a, as a society.

[Lucy Tompkins]

And not only unrealistic, but actually getting in the way of us being able to deal with homelessness in the way that we need to in this country. So many of our systems are designed around temporary fixes, and there's all these shifting funding streams. And if the ultimate goal is to get people housed and keep them housed, then this model is saying you have to come to terms with the reality of what that looks like and not just what you want it to look like. And until you can do that, you're not going to make a dent in this problem.

[Michael Balbaro]

Well, Lucy, thank you very much.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Thank you, Michael.

[Michael Balbaro]

Lucy originally reported on Community first as part of Headway, a Times initiative focused on social and economic progress that is funded in part through private grants. We'll be right back.

[Podcast Sponsor]

Support for this podcast comes from Instagram. Talking to your teens about how they use social media and technology can be tricky. So parents should know that Instagram's new teen accounts have limits on who can contact their teens. My name's Samantha and I have a teen daughter. You always hope that your child's gonna make smart decisions, but sometimes it doesn't happen that way. Instagram teen accounts put teens in the strictest messaging settings so they can only be contacted by people they're already connected to. To learn more, visit instagram.com teenaccounts.

[Michael Balbaro]

This is A.O.

[Lucy Tompkins]

Scott.

[Michael Balbaro]

I'm a critic at the New York Times. What I do and what the other critics here do is part of the same project that all of the journalists at the New York Times work on every day to give you clarity and perspective and above all, a deeper understanding of the world. When you subscribe to the New York Times, it's not just here are the headlines, but here's the way everything fits together.

[Lucy Tompkins]

If you'd like to subscribe, Please go.

[Michael Balbaro]

To nytimes.com subscribe here's what else you need to know today. Rebels in Syria who have already taken over the major city of Aleppo stormed the city of Hama on Thursday, bringing them one step closer to the capital city of Damascus. The rapid rebel advance has shifted the front lines in Syria's 13 year old civil war. For the first time in years. Analysts say that the rebels success has exposed the vulnerability of Syria's government, which is led by President Bashar al Assad, and the degree to which Assad's biggest allies, including Russia and Iran, are now preoccupied with their own crises. Remember, you can catch a new episode of the interview right here tomorrow. David Marchese speaks with the actor Tilda Swindon.

[Lucy Tompkins]

If I ever met your incoming president, there is something I would really love to talk to him about, which is having a Scottish mother. What would you want to talk to him about?

[Michael Balbaro]

That I'd like. I want to hear.

[Lucy Tompkins]

I want to hear about her. I'm very curious about her on you.

[Michael Balbaro]

Today's episode was produced by Olivia Natt and will read with help from Mary Wilson. It was edited by Mark George with help from Ben Calhoun. Fact Checked by Susan Lee contains original music by Alishaba Etube, Dan Powell, Marian Lozano and Diane Wong and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunbert and Ben Landsfrock of Wonderly. The Daily is made by Rachel Quester, Lindsey Garrison, Claire Tennessee, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Chris Wood, Jessica Chung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Lee Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Mark George, Luke Vanderploeg, MJ Davis Lin, Dan Powell, Sidney Harper, Michael Benoit, Liz O. Balenciaga, Astha Chaturvedi, Rachelle Banja, Diana Nguyen, Marian Lozano, Rob Zipko, Alishiba Etub, Mooj Zaidi, Patricia Willans, Rowan Imisto, Jodi Becker, Ricky Novetsky, Nina Feldman will read, Carlos Prieto, Ben Calhoun, Susan Lee, Lexi Diao, Mary Wilson, Alex Stern, Sophia Landmark, Shannon Lin, Diane Wong, Devin Taylor, Alyssa Moxley, Olivia Natt, Daniel Ramirez, Brendan Klingenberg, Chris Haxel and Maria Byrne. Special thanks to Lisa Tobin, Sam Dolnick, Paula Schumann, Larissa Anderson, Julia Simon, Mahima Choblani, Elizabeth Davis Moore, Jeffrey Miranda, Maddie Masiello, Isabella Anderson, Nina Lassem and Nick Pittman. That's it for the Daily. I'm Michael Balboro. See you on Monday.

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Support for this podcast comes from Instagram. My name is Nicole Lopez and I work at Meta. I oversee a team of subject matter experts in all things youth, safety and well being. There are thousands of parents at Meta, myself included, who care really deeply about creating age appropriate experiences for teens. And that's why we rolled out Instagram Teen Accounts. These accounts come with safety features and content protections all built in. Are you the parent of a teen? Get more [e-mail] teen accounts that's instagram.com teenaccounts.