The Daily — Trump Rants: ‘Let Them Go Back to Where They Came From’

Podcast: The Daily (The New York Times)
Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Natalie Kitroeff
Guest: Ernesto Londoño (National Correspondent)

Overview

This episode examines President Trump’s recent xenophobic remarks against Somali Americans in Minnesota, situates them within a broader political context, and explores the underlying issues of pandemic-era fraud by Somali-run organizations. Through reporting by Ernesto Londoño, The Daily delves into the impact of Trump’s rhetoric on the local Somali community, the origins and evolution of the fraud scandal, and the complicated reckoning with race, politics, and immigrant integration in Minnesota.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Blatant Xenophobia and Its Immediate Impact

• Segment: [00:30–02:04]
• Trump’s televised Cabinet meeting included inflammatory statements targeting Somali Americans as “garbage” and urging they “go back to where they came from.”
  • Trump [00:48]: “And we're going to go the wrong way if we keep taking in garbage into our country.”
  • Trump [00:58]: “Let them go back to where they came from and fix it.”
• The remarks induced fear and anxiety in Minnesota’s Somali community, who comprise about 80,000 residents and are deeply embedded in local society.
  • Londoño [02:04]: “It’s induced a prevailing sense of terror among the 80,000 or so people of Somali ancestry that live in the state… The idea that overnight their president refers to them as garbage and says that he wishes they would just all go home was truly jarring.”

2. Community Fear and Heightened Enforcement

• Segment: [03:03–04:38]
• After Trump’s comments, about 100 immigration agents were reportedly deployed to Minnesota to search for Somalis subject to deportation, heightening the sense of vulnerability—even among citizens or those with legal status.
  • Londoño [03:08]: “There’s a sense that a crackdown on immigration is starting to take root in Minnesota... and the fear also has become that this prevailing toxic rhetoric about Somalis and Somali culture has empowered people who are racist to do and say things that amount to harassment and hatred.”
• Somali Americans report an increase in public harassment and fear merely for participating in daily activities.

3. Origins of the Fraud Scandal

• Segment: [05:13–14:50]
• The scandal traces back to 2020 as pandemic-related meal programs became targets for fraud, with some providers (mainly Somali Americans) submitting fake claims for tens of thousands of children.
  • Londoño [06:17]: “What happened in Minnesota was unique in just the scale. And officials have described it as the most brazen case of its kind.”
• Over $1 billion collectively stolen from various government programs—some predating COVID.
  • Londoño [08:12]: “Fraud essentially became the business model… people were stealing staggering amounts of money in plain sight.”
• State officials hesitated to intervene forcefully due to fears of being labeled racist, especially in the post-George Floyd climate.
  • Londoño [11:21]: “Nobody wanted to be called a racist… that had a paralyzing effect on people in state government who knew something funny was going on but didn’t really want to stick their necks out and stop it.”
• Somali Americans’ increasing political importance as a Democratic constituency added another layer of complexity, with some lawmakers reluctant to alienate them.

4. Reckoning and Reform in Minnesota—Interrupted

• Segment: [14:50–15:38, 27:07–29:08]
• Recent efforts in Minnesota saw the beginning of reforms and increased safeguards, as well as a more open conversation about race and political risk.
  • Londoño [14:50]: “We’re seeing the early faces of a constructive reckoning that people here were hoping would lead to less fraud. However, once this issue crosses the radar of the White House… that reckoning starts to take a very different shape.”
• The issue has now been subsumed by the national immigration debate and Trump’s incendiary rhetoric, overshadowing local attempts to address the fraud and racial reckoning on their own terms.

5. How Conservative Media Elevated the Scandal to National Attention

• Segment: [17:50–19:54]
• Conservative activist Chris Rufo amplified the story by falsely linking the stolen money to terrorism (Al Shabaab), despite no evidence presented by prosecutors.
  • Londoño [18:37]: “Prosecutors have drawn no such link… but nonetheless, the headline on this piece was, ‘the largest funder of Al Shabaab is the Minnesota taxpayer.’”
• This, together with violent incidents involving immigrants, gave the administration additional political cover to intensify enforcement.

6. Open Xenophobia as Policy Rationale

• Segment: [19:55–22:44]
• The Trump administration, notably advisor Stephen Miller, seized the moment to promote policies curbing immigration from “failed states.”
  • Stephen Miller, paraphrased by Kitroeff [20:28]: “‘No magic transformation occurs when people from failed states cross borders.’”
• Trump voices open scorn against Somali Americans, claiming overwhelming welfare dependency and “stinking” home countries.
  • Trump [21:34]: “The Welfare is like 88%. They contribute nothing. I don't want them in our country… their country stinks.”
• Unprecedentedly, the president is making comments on camera that are more explicit than prior “shithole countries” remarks [22:07], mainstreaming rhetoric once considered unacceptable.

7. Targeting Somalis for Deportation

• Segment: [22:53–23:59]
• ICE faces challenges: the actual number of Somalis eligible for deportation is small, compounded by the practical difficulties of enforcement in Minnesota’s harsh winter.
  • Londoño [23:03]: “We may be talking about just a few hundred people… this week has been bone chilling in Minnesota… agents… are facing real pain if they’re out and about knocking on doors.”

8. Delegitimizing American Identity and Heightened Civil Rights Fears

• Segment: [24:11–26:10]
• Trump’s rhetoric is not just policy—it fundamentally questions Somali Americans’ belonging, regardless of citizenship.
  • Londoño [24:37]: “What do you do to prove that you’re an American? …what do you need to do to truly feel like you belong and that you’re part of the fabric of this nation?”
• St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter [25:55]:
  • “The vast majority of our Somali community are citizens. So who he just attacked isn’t just Somalis. Who he attacked is Somali Americans. Who he attacked is Americans.”
  • “The sacred moments in American history are the moments we’ve had to decide who gets to be included in the ‘we.’”

9. Unraveling of a Local Reckoning due to National Politics

• Segment: [27:07–28:55]
• Minnesota was on the cusp of meaningful policy change and a more honest racial discussion, but that process is now derailed by Trump’s nationalization of the issue.
  • Londoño [28:28]: “It’s going to be really hard to disentangle these two issues… the pragmatic change… it’s going to be really hard to divorce from the national politics.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• President Trump [00:48]:
  “We’re going to go the wrong way if we keep taking in garbage into our country.”

• President Trump [01:18]:
  “Let them go back to where they came from and fix it.”

• Ernesto Londoño [02:04]:
  “There’s a prevailing sense of terror among the 80,000 or so people of Somali ancestry that live in the state… Truly jarring.”

• Defense Lawyer (paraphrased) [08:42]:
  “It was like people were stealing from the cookie jar one day and the next morning they had refilled it.”

• Londoño [11:21]:
  “Nobody wanted to be called a racist… that had a paralyzing effect…”

• Stephen Miller (quoted by Kitroeff) [20:28]:
  “No magic transformation occurs when people from failed states cross borders.”

• President Trump [21:34]:
  “I don’t want them in our country. Their country stinks.”

• Melvin Carter [25:55]:
  “Who he attacked is Somali Americans. Who he attacked is Americans.”
  “Do we mean black people? Do we mean women? Do we mean immigrants? Who is a part of the ‘we’ when we say ‘we the people’?”

• Londoño [24:37]:
  “What do you do to prove that you’re an American? …What do you need to do to truly feel like you belong and that you’re part of the fabric of this nation?”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump’s Remarks: 00:30–01:18
• Immediate Reaction in Minnesota: 02:04–03:08
• Rise of Fear and Harassment: 03:08–04:38
• Pandemic Fraud Story: 05:13–11:21
• State’s Political Paralysis: 11:21–12:46
• Initial Reckoning and Reforms: 14:50–15:38
• Media Escalation and Al Shabaab Storyline: 17:50–19:54
• Trump/Miller Open Xenophobia: 20:28–22:44
• Civil Rights and American Belonging: 24:11–26:10
• Unraveling of Local Discourse: 27:07–28:55

Conclusion

This episode captures a fraught intersection of racialized politics, local scandal, and national xenophobic rhetoric. Trump’s recent remarks represent a new nadir in public discourse on immigrants, directly imperiling the sense of security and belonging for Somali Americans while derailing a nuanced reckoning over pandemic-era fraud. The episode underscores how local scandals, when seized by national figures for political purposes, can exacerbate divisions—raising pressing questions about who gets to be included in “we the people.”