Trump Says They’re Foreign Gang Members. Are They?

Summary

Summary of "Trump Says They’re Foreign Gang Members. Are They?" – The Daily, April 23, 2025

Introduction

In the April 23, 2025 episode of The Daily, host Rachel Abrams dives deep into a controversial immigration policy implemented by the Trump administration. The episode, featuring reporter Julie Turkowitz, investigates the mass deportation of Venezuelan migrants labeled as gang members and foreign enemies, their subsequent incarceration in El Salvador, and the questionable processes behind their identification and deportation.

Background: The Deportation Campaign

Rachel Abrams opens the discussion by highlighting the Trump administration's recent actions: the rapid deportation of hundreds of Venezuelan migrants to El Salvador. These individuals were swiftly categorized as gang members without the customary court hearings, raising serious concerns about due process and transparency.

Investigative Reporting: Unveiling the Truth

Julie Turkowitz explains the objective of her team’s investigation: to identify who these deported individuals are and scrutinize the criteria used to label them as gang members. "These are people who weren't just deported. They have also been incarcerated in a foreign country in a maximum security prison built for terrorists," Turkowitz states [00:31].

Evidence Behind Gang Accusations

The administration claimed that the deported individuals were members of Trend Aragua, a Venezuelan gang declared a foreign terrorist organization allegedly collaborating with the Venezuelan government to "invade" the United States. However, Turkowitz reveals that only a small fraction of those deported had substantial criminal records. "Of the 238 men sent to El Salvador, we were only able to find serious criminal accusations or convictions for 32 of them" [07:28].

The Alien Enemies Act and Due Process

Rachel Abrams questions the lack of due process in these deportations. Turkowitz confirms that the Trump administration utilized the Alien Enemies Act, an 18th-century law, to expedite the deportation process without standard judicial scrutiny. "The Supreme Court... said that no, going forward, the Trump administration must allow some kind of due process to these men" [05:09]. The Supreme Court has since halted further deportations using this act until due process is ensured.

Flawed Identification: The Point System

A critical part of the episode examines the internal guidelines used to identify gang members. Turkowitz details an "alien enemy validation guide" that employs a point system to classify individuals as gang members. Points are assigned based on criteria such as associating with known gang members, displaying specific tattoos, or wearing particular styles of clothing. "This document instructs officials to give individuals two points if they are discovered to have lived with a member of the Trend Aragua... and another four points for displaying, quote, dress known to indicate allegiance to the gang" [19:00].

Case Study: Arturo Suarez

To humanize the issue, Turkowitz narrates the story of Arturo Suarez, a Venezuelan musician with no substantial criminal background who was deported. Suarez entered the United States in September 2024 through a Biden-era application, CBP1, seeking better opportunities. However, after a brief period of relative normalcy, he was apprehended and deported without clear evidence linking him to any gang activities. "We found that at least 27 of them have tattoos... Names of family members, names of girlfriends and wives... and inspirational messages" [21:15].

Consequences of Misidentification

The flawed identification process has led to severe consequences for the deported individuals. Many face indefinite incarceration in harsh prison conditions in El Salvador, with limited access to communication and legal representation. "These men are now in a prison... They have not had a court hearing... they have little or no access to lawyers or their families" [23:10]. The uncertainty surrounding their fate is compounded by the administration's reluctance to provide detailed information about the conditions in El Salvador.

Broader Implications and Public Reaction

The episode contextualizes the immigration policy within the polarized American political landscape. While some Americans support stringent measures to protect national security, others are deeply concerned about the erosion of civil liberties and the potential for wrongful deportations. Turkowitz notes a "dramatic decline in people arriving at the US Border," attributing it to the administration's aggressive stance [26:20]. However, the long-term impact on the affected individuals and their families remains dire and largely unknown.

Conclusion: A Call for Accountability

The Daily episode underscores the critical need for transparency and accountability in immigration enforcement. The use of an unreliable point system to label individuals as gang members poses significant ethical and legal challenges. As the Supreme Court continues to oversee these deportations, the episode calls for a balanced approach that safeguards national security without compromising the fundamental rights of individuals.

Notable Quotes

• Julie Turkowitz [00:31]: "These are people who weren't just deported. They have also been incarcerated in a foreign country in a maximum security prison built for terrorists."

• Julie Turkowitz [07:28]: "Of the 238 men sent to El Salvador, we were only able to find serious criminal accusations or convictions for 32 of them."

• Julie Turkowitz [19:00]: "This document instructs officials to give individuals two points if they are discovered to have lived with a member of the Trend Aragua... and another four points for displaying, quote, dress known to indicate allegiance to the gang."

• Julie Turkowitz [21:15]: "We found that at least 27 of them have tattoos... Names of family members, names of girlfriends and wives... and inspirational messages."

• Julie Turkowitz [23:10]: "These men are now in a prison... They have not had a court hearing... they have little or no access to lawyers or their families."

• Julie Turkowitz [26:20]: "The messaging that the Trump administration is sending seems to have worked... We don't know what people are exposed to in this prison in El Salvador."

Implications for the Future

The episode raises essential questions about the balance between national security and individual rights. It highlights the potential for abuse in immigration policies and the human cost of flawed enforcement mechanisms. As the situation unfolds, the need for judicial oversight and robust evidence becomes increasingly apparent to prevent miscarriages of justice.

Final Thoughts

The Daily provides a comprehensive examination of a complex and pressing issue, blending investigative journalism with personal narratives to illuminate the human impact of political decisions. By bringing to light the stories of those unjustly deported, the episode calls for a reevaluation of immigration policies to ensure they are both fair and effective.

Transcript

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[Rachel Abrams]

New York Times, I'm Rachel Abrams, and this is THE Daily in recent weeks, the Trump administration has deported hundreds of Venezuelan migrants by quickly labeling them as gang members and foreign enemies, boarding them on planes to El Salvador and sidestepping their rights to a court hearing where anyone might be able to scrutinize the claims made against them. As as a result, very little has been known about who these men are or how they were targeted by immigration officials until now. Today, my colleague Julie Turkowitz explains who was actually on those planes and the secretive process that led to their deportations. It's Wednesday, April 23rd. So, Julie, over the past few weeks, part of the news cycle, part of the big story out there has been this case of a man named Jose Abrego Garcia. He was the Salvadoran man who was on one of the planes carrying hundreds of people from the United States to El Salvador. And you have done something different. You have focused on the other 200 plus people on board these planes and dozens of other people who have been rounded up by immigration authorities. Can you just tell us what specifically you've been trying to look into?

[Julie Turkowitz]

Sure. Myself and a large team of reporters and researchers at the Times really wanted to understand who were the people sent to El Salvador and how they were identified. These are people who weren't just deported. They have also been incarcerated in a foreign country in a maximum security prison built for terrorists. And the Trump administration has made all kinds of claims about these individuals, saying that they are members of this Venezuelan gang. But we found, for example, in the case of Abrego Garcia, is that what the government is saying about the individuals that it is sending to El Salvador for incarceration doesn't always have a lot of evidence behind it. And so it was important to kind of dig into who these people are and if they are in fact members of a gang, as the Trump administration says they are? Because if that is not true, it opens up all kinds of questions about who else could be identified with very little evidence as a member of a gang. And sent to a prison in a foreign country for a year or for years to come.

[Rachel Abrams]

So you mentioned gang affiliations. That was one of the things on the government's agenda in terms of why it targeted these people. Can you just talk about that a little bit more? Remind us, what did the government say specifically in its accusations against some of these people?

[Julie Turkowitz]

So right around the time that the Trump administration is sending these men to El Salvador, the administration's borders are. Tom Holman comes out and says these individuals are all members of the Trender Agua. Now, the Trend, Aragua is this Venezuelan gang that has morphed into a transnational criminal organization, but until recently was not really considered a big deal in the United States. And then earlier this year, the Trump administration declares the Trend to be a foreign terrorist organization that that is working with the Venezuelan government. And not only that, but the administration says that this gang, in collaboration with the Venezuelan government, is perpetrating an invasion of the United States.

[Rachel Abrams]

Wow.

[Julie Turkowitz]

Now, this is really debatable because we don't have evidence that this group has arrived in the United States in very large numbers. And whatever connection they might have with the Venezuelan government is not proven. But what the Trump administration is doing is claiming that there is an invasion so that it can invoke this 18th century law called the Alien Enemies act that allows the Trump administration to swiftly deport individuals who are part of a nation that has invaded the United States or is at war with the United States.

[Rachel Abrams]

Swiftly deport, meaning like no due process, no time in court?

[Julie Turkowitz]

Correct. Now, the Supreme Court, after the initial flights of 238 men went to El Salvador, said that no, going forward, the Trump administration must allow some kind of due process to these men. It must notify these men that they are being targeted. They've been identified as alien enemies, and it must allow them an opportunity to fight that claim before they're deported. And then on Friday, the Trump administration attempted to continue to send more individuals to El Salvador using the Alien Enemies Act. And the Supreme Court weighed in again and halted this effort and said, no, at this point, this is not permitted.

[Rachel Abrams]

And just to be clear, one of the things that the Supreme Court seems to want to preserve here is the right of these men to defend themselves, maybe say, hey, I'm not a gang member, present some evidence for their defense. Because without that, then we don't know if mistakes are made. We don't know if the administration was correct in the evidence it presents. And it seems like you actually were the one digging into who these people were. Tell us about what you actually found when you started to do that reporting.

[Julie Turkowitz]

To be very clear, the Trump administration is being extremely secretive about who has been sent to El Salvador and what evidence it has against them. The US Government and the Salvadoran government have refused to even release a list of who is currently incarcerated in El Salvador. But my colleague Hamed Aleasis was able to obtain the internal list. These names were initially reported by cbs, and we ran them through databases. So we were doing background checks in Chile, in Colombia, in Peru. Now, I should note that it's very difficult to find criminal records from all over the world. There's no international public database that we could just search and use to excavate information. So is it possible that we missed something? Of course. But a team of US Reporters and researchers dedicated weeks to understanding the criminal backgrounds of these individuals.

[Rachel Abrams]

Right.

[Julie Turkowitz]

And of the 238 men sent to El Salvador, we were only able to find serious criminal accusations or convictions for 32 of them.

[Rachel Abrams]

What kind of serious crimes are we talking about?

[Julie Turkowitz]

So, for example, we found one person with a murder conviction in Venezuela. We found another individual who is accused of kidnapping and drugging and sexually assaulting a woman in Chile, someone who authorities in Chile do believe is a member of Trend Aragua. We found others who had been accused of being involved in an attack in Chicago. And so we found some folks with some pretty serious criminal accusations or convictions.

[Rachel Abrams]

Okay, so obviously those are very violent offenses. Did you find any other types of criminal activity?

[Julie Turkowitz]

Absolutely. We found about two dozen people who had these much lower level offenses. Right. Speeding in a school zone, trespassing, driving without proper registration. But the vast majority of the people did not seem to have a criminal record beyond sometimes infractions related to their immigration cases.

[Rachel Abrams]

So we're talking about criminal records here, but what about the accusation that these men are in fact TDA or gang affiliated?

[Julie Turkowitz]

Well, that is a good question, because it's important to point out that while in a minority, well, in a handful of cases, for example, this individual in Chile, we did find some evidence that maybe authorities believe they're Treinder Agua. For the vast majority of these people, we found no evidence that they have any connection to this violent Venezuelan gang. But as we spoke to families of many of the men on those planes, we started to find a few common traits that appear to have led them to be targets for deportation. One person who I spent a lot of time speaking with his family is Arturo Suarez. Arturo left Venezuela in 2016. He had participated in anti government protest in 2014, sort of calling for change in Venezuela and eventually decided because of the political situation, because of the economic situation, to move to Colombia. Then he moved to Chile. In Chile, he meets his wife, another Venezuelan, a woman named Natalie.

[Natalie]

Hello.

[Julie Turkowitz]

Hola, Natalie. La Repottera. I spoke with Natalie this month. She told me a little bit about him. He in Chile worked installing these sort of large scale refrigerators. But his real passion and what people really know him for, what his friends, his family know him for, is his music. And as a part of his sort of growing music career, he had a lot of tattoos. Some of them are sort of aspirational, inspirational. One of them is this hummingbird on his neck. And another is a phrase that his family sort of describes as emblematic of his outlook. And it says, the future is bright, money is tight. And eventually Natalie gets pregnant. And they decide that Arturo is going to go to the United States. And the idea is that he's going to go to the United States. You know, in the worst case scenario, I earning dollars to sort of assist my growing family, maybe my wife comes to join me, maybe I go back to Chile. In the best case scenario, I meet all kinds of amazing producers and, you know, my career really takes off in the US where there's really just an opportunity to become like a global superstar, as opposed to Chile, where you're sort of relegated to a much smaller stage.

[Rachel Abrams]

So how does he eventually get into.

[Julie Turkowitz]

The US so he enters the country in September of 2024. He enters using this application called CBP1. This is this Biden era application that allowed people, and many Venezuelans took advantage of this to present themselves at the US border and essentially ask for the opportunity to come in and make a case that they should be able to stay. And actually, once Arturo gets into the country, he's starting to make some money. And he and Natalie decide that eventually he's gonna save up and he's gonna go back to Chile. But he never gets the opportunity to make that trip back.

[Rachel Abrams]

Why? What happens?

[Julie Turkowitz]

So on February 8, he arrives at this house in Raleigh to film a music video. And that is where he is apprehended by immigration agents. According to his family, immigration authorities tell him that he's being detained due to his immigration status. He is sent to a detention center in Georgia. He's able to make phone calls. His wife Natalie is in touch with him. But after about a month in this detention facility, Arturo tells his wife.

[Rachel Abrams]

That.

[Julie Turkowitz]

He actually wants to be deported, that he's ready to sort of have this nightmare be over. And that it's way better to be back in Venezuela or back back in Chile than to be in a detention center in the United States. And so on March 14, he calls her and he tells her that he will probably be deported the next day. I've been told by American authorities that I am being sent back to Venezuela. Natalie tells me that she's just so filled with relief. And he sends a text that night saying, I love you. We'll soon be together forever. But after that message is sent, about a day passes and Arturo is silent. He essentially disappears. And Nathalie starts to get really nervous. And on March 16, when Arturo has not showed up in Venezuela, Natalie turns to Google and on her phone she types into this little search bar box. Deportations to Venezuela. And what pops up are these photos of Venezuelan men deported and incarcerated in El Salvador.

[Rachel Abrams]

And these are the photos that I think a lot of us saw, right, with men with shaved heads, their arms behind their back at some sort of prison complex. It looked like.

[Julie Turkowitz]

Absolutely. She sees this photo with this sort of sea of men wearing these sort of white prison outfits on the ground, sort of hunched over in a sort of identical form. And she zooms in, sees the hummingbird tattoo, and realizes that one of them is her husband.

[Rachel Abrams]

We'll be right back.

[Natalie]

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[Rachel Abrams]

So Julie, earlier you said that when you were speaking to families of the men on these planes like Arturos, you began to notice traits that they shared that seemed to have made them targets for deportation. Tell me about those traits.

[Julie Turkowitz]

So earlier this year, the Department of Homeland Security issued a internal guideline called the alien enemy validation guide. And this guide gives us a window into how the Trump administration is identifying supposed members of the trender aqua. This guide instructs officials to use a point system to grade suspected members of the gang. Once someone gets eight points, they become a, quote, validated member of the gang, and therefore an alien enemy who can be subject to this kind of deportation. And of course, we know that these folks are not just being deported, but also incarcerated.

[Rachel Abrams]

Wait, so, okay, so a point system, like, if you get enough points, the government says you are a gang member. Do I have that right?

[Julie Turkowitz]

Correct. That's exactly how it works.

[Rachel Abrams]

Can you just explain that a little bit? Like, how are the points actually assigned? And what do you accrue points for?

[Julie Turkowitz]

So this document instructs officials to give individuals two points if they are discovered to have lived with a member of the trenderagua. Two points for being photographed with a member of the group, two points for using social media to display symbols, unclear what those are of the gang. And most important, the document instructs officials to give four points for having tattoos, tattoos denoting membership in the trend, and another four points for displaying, quote, dress known to indicate allegiance to the gang. And that kind of dress includes high end urban street wear, and it includes wearing sports gear from U.S. sports teams with prominent Venezuelans on them.

[Rachel Abrams]

I mean, I. It's. This strikes me as, like, not foolproof. I mean, is this point system that is used by law enforcement, in this case, to identify gang members, Is this typical? Is this unheard of? Can you put this into context for us?

[Julie Turkowitz]

So US Law enforcement has used tattoos in the past to identify members of a gang. And that is because there are some transnational gangs that have a presence in the United States, like Ms. 13, that use tattoos as identifiers of membership. You know, we've these sort of big Ms. 13 tattoos. The problem is that a member of our team in Venezuela spoke with five different experts on the trend. These are people who have been working with this group for years. Police officials, academics, and a journalist who wrote a book about the trend. And all of them say that trend does not use tattoos as a marker of membership. And while there may be many gang members who have tattoos, there are also many young Venezuelan men who have tattoos.

[Rachel Abrams]

Mm. And were tattoos one of the common denominators you were finding among these men?

[Julie Turkowitz]

We spoke with families and a couple of lawyers for 30 of the men who were sent to El Salvador, and we found that at least 27 of them have tattoos. And these tattoos include, like, Names of family members, names of girlfriends and wives. And they also include things like crowns, for example, and, you know, inspirational messages. And what we found is that even though the Treinder Agua doesn't use tattoos as a marker of membership, the government has a list of tattoos that it considers to be suspicious. And that includes, for example, that crown tattoo that I mentioned that is also sported by Lionel Messi, the famous soccer star. It also includes the sort of Michael Jordan Jumpman silhouette that, of course, was popularized by Nike and by the basketball star. So the government appears to have taken this not really very definitive criteria, having tattoos or having crown and Jumpman tattoos, and combining it with other not very definitive criteria like wearing urban streetwear, and used it to identify someone as a, quote, validated member of this gang.

[Rachel Abrams]

Right. Because presumably there might be fans of Michael Jordan and Lionel Messi who want tattoos of images that they helped to popularize, and those people might not be in gangs. And similarly, people who wear urban streetwear might not be in gangs. So it sounds like this, from everything you have have learned, this system of identification really has some kind of questionable flaws to it.

[Julie Turkowitz]

Absolutely. And the problem is that the sort of possible misidentification of people as gang members has dire consequences. These men are now in a prison. They have not had a court hearing. They have little or no access to lawyers or their families. And we know that the conditions in this prison that they have been sent to are extremely harsh. This prison was built by the president of El Salvador to be sort of emblematic of his crackdown on terrible criminals in his own country. The head of the Department of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, has said that these individuals are not being held in the same conditions. But we don't really know that because no one has been given full and free access to the prison. And these folks, unlike when they were in US Detention, now that they're in Salvadoran prison, these individuals do not have access to a telephone or a messaging app or a way to communicate to the outside world what their lives are like on the inside.

[Rachel Abrams]

Do we have any sense how long they might be there?

[Julie Turkowitz]

When these men were initially sent to El Salvador, the president of El Salvador, Nayibo Kele, said that they would be imprisoned there for at least a year. And at the same time, he called that sentence, quote, unquote, renewable. But what we've seen since is that Kristi Noem, the head of the Department of Homeland Security, has come out and said that she believes these individuals should be held in the prison for the rest of their lives.

[Rachel Abrams]

Julie, I feel like it's totally fair for us to point out that these deportations might have been extremely flawed, that these conditions might be extremely harsh. But I want to note two things. The first is that many Americans voted for President Trump and feel that the immigration system in this country is broken. Even if some people enter this country legally, they are still in some way taking advantage of the country to the detriment of Americans. And the second thing I want to note is that it feels like we're in this moment right now where people can be divided into sort of two camps, just to make a really broad generalization. In one group, you have people who are alarmed by this lack of due process, who say, listen, maybe these guys should have been deported anyway. But we need to find out by putting them through a system so that we can make sure we're not, you know, deporting the wrong people, that everybody should have their day in court. And then what we also have is another group of people that feel that it is okay to have collateral damage, in this case, potentially sending innocent men to a terrorist prison in order to overhaul a broken system. And I'm just curious if you are sort of seeing the landscape in that way.

[Julie Turkowitz]

Yeah, I think that that is absolutely a fair summary of the situation. And I think that it's really important to point out that what we have seen in the last couple of months is a dramatic decline in people arriving at the US Border. This is something that started under the Biden administration because of some of the sort of stricter policies that the administration put in place, among other factors. But it has really been sustained and has become very evident under the Trump administration. The messaging that the Trump administration is sending seems to have worked. The thing is, we just don't know how deep the collateral damage will be. We don't know what people are exposed to in this prison in El Salvador. We don't know if they'll get out ever. And what my colleagues and I are learning from new reporting in the past few days is that there are additional people who are no longer showing up in this public database of migrants detained in the US but who are not on the internal government list of migrants sent to El Salvador. Presumably, the US Government knows where they are, but their families don't know where they are. We don't know where they are. They have essentially, for public purposes, been disappeared.

[Rachel Abrams]

Wow.

[Julie Turkowitz]

And I think the concern of many people watching this play out is that the shift in policy runs deeper than just sending a couple of hundred people to a foreign prison. And so there's this fundamental question as to whether what we're seeing here is the American people accept that they are willing to give up certain rights in order to tackle this problem and feel somehow safer in their own country.

[Rachel Abrams]

Julie, thank you so much.

[Julie Turkowitz]

Thank you.

[Rachel Abrams]

We'll be right back.

[Natalie]

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[Rachel Abrams]

Here's what else you need to know Today, Secretary of State Marco Rubio unveiled a plan to make major cuts to the State Department, calling the government's diplomatic agency, quote, bloated, bureaucratic and beholden to radical political ideology. The cuts focus on operations in Washington Washington, but will also affect the work of embassies and consulates overseas, including the elimination of the Office of the Undersecretary for Civilian Security, Democracy and Human Rights, which is charged with advancing American values around the world. And the executive producer of 60 Minutes, the Tiffany brand of American television journalism, resigned on Tuesday, saying that he was no longer allowed to run the show the way that he always had and make independent decisions. The producer, Bill Owens, is only the third person to hold his position in the show's 57 year history, and his departure marked a new period of turmoil for CBS News and 60 Minutes, which is facing a $10 billion lawsuit from President Trump. Today's episode was produced by Carlos Prieto and Caitlin O'Keefe, with help from Jessica Chung and Will Reid. It was edited by Liz O'Ballin, with help from Maria Byrne and Michael Benoit. Contains original Music by Pat McCusker, Alicia Baetup and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly that's it for the Daily I'm Rachel Abrams. See you tomorrow.

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