Trump Sent Them to a Notorious Prison. Torture Followed.

Summary

The Daily — “Trump Sent Them to a Notorious Prison. Torture Followed.”

Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Michael Barbaro
Guest/Reporter: Julie Turkewitz

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Overview

In this troubling episode, The Daily investigates the fate of roughly 250 Venezuelan men deported by the Trump administration from the US to a maximum-security prison in El Salvador. Through in-depth reporting by Julie Turkewitz and her Venezuelan colleagues, the episode reveals harrowing claims of physical, psychological, and sexual abuse—amounting to torture—inside the prison. The episode explores the men’s experiences, the political machinations behind their transfer and release, and the broader moral and legal implications for the US.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Deportation and Imprisonment (01:23–04:56)

• Turkewitz recounts how, in March, about 250 Venezuelan men were deported to a feared Salvadoran prison, accused of being gang-linked terrorists, without trial or public evidence.
• Family members and lawyers in both Venezuela and the US desperately sought information, facing government stonewalling.
• Journalists could only identify the deportees through leaks; names and alleged crimes were withheld.

“It was the most indelible image in President Trump’s mass deportation campaign because it felt the most unfamiliar and kind of brutal.” — Michael Barbaro (02:30)

2. Reporting Breakthrough and Investigative Methods (04:56–06:47)

• A diplomatic breakthrough leads to the men’s eventual release and repatriation to Venezuela in July.
• Turkewitz and a team conduct in-depth interviews with 40 of the released men, gathering medical reports and photographic evidence of abuse.
• Their testimonies are cross-referenced and corroborated, evidencing widespread and systematic torture.

“What emerges is this pretty clear and very consistent account of widespread abuse among the men inside the prison.” — Julie Turkewitz (05:40)

3. Case Study: Luis Elixin Chacon (07:00–13:22)

• Luis, a Venezuelan father, fled economic hardship, worked as an Uber Eats driver in Milwaukee, and was arrested after a minor traffic stop—he had some prior legal issues but nothing linked to terrorism or gangs.
• Tattoos and scars led US officials to label him—without evidence—a gang member, a key criteria used for selecting deportees.
• Upon arrival in El Salvador (after being misled about his destination), he was processed through humiliating, violent rituals and threatened with ominous warnings:

“This is hell. You will leave here only in a body bag.” — Statement to Luis upon arrival (13:19)

4. Prison Conditions and Abuse (14:55–21:25)

• Detainees were held 10 to a cell, forced to drink and bathe with the same cistern water, and systematically denied medical care.
• Noteworthy cases: A diabetic man denied crucial insulin, another near death with no care (“It is time to die.”).
• Physical abuse was relentless: beatings, restraints, forced kneeling (“grua”—the crane position) for hours, and lifting/injuring through handcuffs.

“Many of the men spoke about a position they called the grua position... kneel for hours... handcuffed behind their backs... lifted by the handcuffs to put pressure on their shoulders and backs.” — Julie Turkewitz (17:04)

• Psychological desperation led some to write their pleas in blood, culminating in a rebellious outburst after a particularly savage beating.

5. Riot, Repression, and Torture Intensify (19:00–22:31)

• Following a brutal search and beating, inmates staged a short-lived revolt—guards retaliated with rubber bullets and worsened abuse.
• Some injuries were severe, such as a man with a bullet wound in his face and another in the thigh, both documented by journalists.
• Survivors reported extra-punitive actions in the prison’s “island” (la isla) isolation cell, including forced drowning (“head dunked in water”) and sexual assault.

“These men say that ‘the island’ is really the place where some of the most depraved acts occurred.” — Julie Turkewitz (21:40)

6. Lack of External Oversight (22:31–24:34)

• Detainees were almost entirely cut off from outside contact, with only two visits: Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, and the Red Cross (whose findings remain private).
• Mental trauma became so severe, suicide attempts and collective despair were routine.

“Were it not for these men, mis compañeros, I would not be here today telling you the story that I’m telling you.” — Luis Chacon (24:34)

7. Verification and Corroboration (25:15–26:27)

• An independent forensic nonprofit reviewed testimonies, photos, and medical reports, finding them credible and consistent with the UN’s definition of torture.

“Much of the abuse that was described met the United Nations definition of torture.” — Julie Turkewitz (26:20)

8. Legal and Moral Questions (26:27–32:59)

• The men were deported and tortured despite no legal findings of terrorism; only one US federal judge ever touched their case, and an order to stop deportations was ignored.
• The men’s eventual release was brokered by Venezuela, exchanging them for 10 detained US citizens.
• Despite public reports warning of torture in Salvadoran prisons, the US government knowingly proceeded.

“They knew.” — Michael Barbaro, on US awareness of torture in Salvadoran prisons (30:36)

• Turkewitz and Barbaro reflect on how America, after condemning post-9/11 torture, has now — albeit outsourced — committed similar acts, yet public outrage is muted.
• Administration response dismisses the reporting, refocusing on “children killed by vicious illegal aliens”—a tactic to change the narrative.

“Our response is, who cares? Which is very striking.” — Michael Barbaro (32:44)

9. Ongoing Trauma & Aftermath (33:01–34:40)

• Freed men like Luis now live separate from family, suffering severe psychological and physical trauma reminiscent of PTSD—“zombies,” trouble sleeping, haunted by flashbacks.

“They talked about not being able to sleep and when they do sleep, experiencing a sensation of feeling like they’re back in the prison.” — Julie Turkewitz (34:04)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is what will happen to you if you come to the United States illegally.” — Julie Turkewitz, on the intended message of the deportations (02:41)
• “Their names were never released... It began to feel like a pretty endless black box.” — Turkewitz (03:30-04:05)
• “We are not criminals. We are migrants.” — Message written in blood by detainees (17:48)
• “I don’t think they believed they had any other options.” — Julie Turkewitz, on desperate protest methods (18:35)
• “It’s hard to imagine that US officials did not have some idea that something like this was going to happen inside the Salvadoran prison.” — Julie Turkewitz (30:08)
• “How far, basically, are Americans willing to go for migration deterrence?” — Turkewitz (31:06)
• “The legal door is still open for the Trump administration to continue sending people to El Salvador and to this prison...” — Julie Turkewitz (32:56)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:23] – Introduction to the investigation by Julie Turkewitz
• [07:00] – Luis Elixin Chacon’s personal story begins
• [13:19] – Arrival at the prison: “This is hell...”
• [15:03] – Prison conditions and lack of medical care
• [17:04] – Torture methods described (the “crane position”)
• [18:25] – Self-harm and protest inside cells
• [19:00] – Descent into violence, the riot, and further punishment
• [21:27] – “La isla” isolation cell and sexual abuse
• [25:15] – Corroborating evidence and independent forensic review
• [26:27] – Legal questions, lack of process, and American responsibility
• [33:01] – Life after release: trauma and dislocation

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains a somber, urgent, and unsparing tone. Both host and reporter grapple openly with the gravity of the revelations and the moral weight they carry, especially in contrast to America’s stated values and public memory of torture scandals. Turkewitz’s account is clinical yet empathetic, letting the trauma and resilience of survivors speak for itself.

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Summary:
This episode exposes a deeply troubling story of political expedience and human suffering at the intersection of US immigration policy and international human rights, raising urgent questions about legal process, government accountability, and national conscience. The reporting is direct, thorough, and underscores the ongoing cost to the men ensnared in this policy and to the ideals America professes to embody.

Transcript

[A]

This podcast is supported by AT&T, the network that helps Americans make connections. When you compare, there is no comparison. AT&T.

[B]

From the New York Times, I'm Michael Balbaro. This is the Daily.

For four months, hundreds of men from Venezuela said they endured physical abuse.

Mental abuse.

And sexual abuse.

Inside a notorious prison.

Today, what my colleague Julie Turkowitz found actually happened inside that prison and why many now see it as perhaps the darkest chapter of all in President Trump's program of mass deportation.

It's Monday, december 8th.

[C]

Julie, you have spent the past many months investigating the plight of these roughly 200 Venezuelan nationals who were deported by the Trump administration from the US To a prison in El Salvador. And along the way, you have broke story after story about who they are, what they did or didn't do. And now you bring us your latest investigation. So tell us what animated that latest probe and what you found.

[D]

So I think that so many listeners remember back in march when these 250 or so Venezuelan men were put on planes to this foreign prison in El Salvador, accused summarily, without trials, of being terrorists, and then in a very, very public way, taken off the planes, bent at the waist, shackled, shaved, and put in this maximum security prison in El Salvador.

[C]

Right. It was the most indelible image in President Trump's mass deportation campaign because it felt the most unfamiliar and kind of brutal.

[D]

Absolutely. And I think that it was meant to send a message. This is what will happen to you if you come to the United States illegally. And after that, the men disappeared. They did not have access to lawyers. They did not have access to family members. There were family members in Caracas, in the United States, marching, asking for some kind of information about their loved ones. You had courtroom tussles in the United States with lawyers trying to get these folks back to the US or at the very least, try and find some kind of information about what had happened to them.

[C]

Right. Which was met with a wall of resistance from the Trump administration, who basically said, take our word for it that these are the worst of the worst.

[D]

Absolutely. And we as journalists, asked over and over again, please, give us information about these men. Give us their names. Their names were never released. And we also asked for information about their criminal histories, but the Trump administration refused to give us sort of a list describing the different alleged crimes that had been committed by all of these men. The only ways that we found out who they were was through leaks.

[C]

Right. And so it began to feel like a pretty endless black box.

[D]

Correct. And then over the summer, there is A breakthrough. And we start to hear that there are talks happening between the US government and the Venezuelan government in which the US government is considering releasing these 250 some men from this Salvadoran prison. And one day in July, this is exactly what happens. These men are released and sent to Venezuela. And finally we have the opportunity to find out what actually happened to these men on the inside.

So I immediately begin speaking with a team of reporters who I work with, who are inside Venezuela. And I ask them to race out and begin to document the reunions of these men with their family members. And from there, all of us as a team, three Venezuelan reporters, a Venezuelan photographer, and myself, we begin these sort of methodical interviews of these men, talking to them about their experiences and what they lived through on the inside. We start collecting and cross referencing their stories, going back, doing follow up interviews to confirm timelines, facts, narratives in general. We start photographing their injuries, their physical conditions, talking to them about the after effects of what they experienced, gathering medical reports from doctors they've seen. And what emerges is this pretty clear and very consistent account of widespread abuse among the men inside the prison. The abuse that they describe is physical, it is psychological at times, it is sexual. And in many cases, the men describe it as torture.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

And by the time we finish the reporting, as a team, we have interviewed 40 of these men.

[C]

Tell us about one of these men that you spoke to whose story is very consistent with what you heard from all 40.

[D]

Sure.

Luis Elixin Chacon is a young man from Venezuela whose story is really representative, I think, of the stories of so many of these men.

He is a father of three. He comes to the United States from Venezuela in 2023. He comes with his family. Like so many of these guys. He says that he's fleeing a really bad economic situation and also that he is following this flow of people that came up through the Darien Gap.

[C]

Right.

[D]

And he's working in Milwaukee. He is working for Uber as an Uber Eats driver.

And the way that he tells the story is that he is with his son and they are doing Uber Eats deliveries and they go to McDonald's and he gets an order for a hamburger.

So he is making this 11 McDonald's delivery when he is pulled over by the police.

And told that he has a tail light out. And this is what sort of begins his journey to this maximum security prison in El Salvador.

[C]

Well, surely it wasn't just a tail light out.

[D]

Turns out that Luis had had some previous scuffles with the law. He, in 2024, had been accused of domestic violence, and the case was later dismissed. He also had been accused of stealing some things from a Walmart, and that case was still pending. So he had been charged with theft and was awaiting the next step in the case.

He is taken to the police station. And it is also in this place where he says that.

Officials notice some scars on his leg and say something to the effect of, you know, oh, these, you know, we got to look out for this guy.

These could be bullet wounds. And they also looked suspiciously at his tattoos, he recalled.

[C]

And why does all that end up mattering?

[D]

What we know is that in many cases, the Trump administration was using tattoos as a sign that these individuals were gang members and in fact, had a rating system that it used to determine who was a supposed member of a gang and then to send people to this prison. We have no evidence that Luis Chacon is or was a member of this gang, Renda, just like we have very little evidence that many of these men were members of this gang. Nevertheless, they were sent to this prison, and the Trump administration has said publicly that they were all part of this gang.

[C]

And what does Luis describe as his journey to this prison in your conversations with him?

[D]

Luis Chacon has a very interesting journey to the prison in El Salvador. He describes asking to be deported to Venezuela.

He does not want to extend his time at all in detention because he knows that he needs to get out and be somewhere where he can make some money to support his family. And he believes that he is being sent by the United States to Venezuela.

He has heard about these men going to El Salvador. He's very scared that he's going to be sent to El Salvador. He says that he was assured that he was not going to El Salvador. And then he is loaded onto this deportation plane.

Eventually, they do land in El Salvador. And the men who were on these planes described looking out their window, seeing a sign that indicated that they had arrived in El Salvador, and just the terror of realizing that they might be staying there.

They talked about Salvadoran guards getting on the plane. One of them talked about sort of trying to tighten their seat belts in this feeble attempt to stay on the plane. And then, of course, being forced off of the airplane. And these guards are just bending these guys at the waist, slamming them down the stairs against vehicles, onto buses.

And bringing them into this feared prison where they are forced to their knees, where they are shaved.

And eventually thrown into these prison cells, which have these four plank metal beds that someone described as a sort of living morgue. And Louise specifically recalls being told.

This is hell.

You will leave here only in a body bag.

[B]

We'll be right back.

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[C]

So, Julie, what are the conditions that Luis and the rest of these Venezuelans from find in this prison?

[D]

So the men are divided into cell blocks, approximately 10 men in each cell. They are given bunk beds, metal, most often without any kinds of mattress or sheet. The water is a sort of open cistern. They're supposed to use that water to drink as well as to bathe.

[C]

They're supposed to drink their bathing water?

[D]

Correct. They also say that they are consistently denied medical care. There is one man named Aldo Colbenares who comes into the prison with diabetes. He tells officials there he has diabetes and needs insulin. He said that he was denied insulin for five days. He's eventually given the wrong kind of insulin, which leads to hypoglycemia and two attacks that lead him to pass out.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

There is a young man who becomes very, very sick to the point where the other inmates are bringing food and water to his lips with their hands. And he's eventually sent to an infirmary where he says that a doctor told him he should just resign himself. It is time to die.

[C]

That's stunning.

[D]

And for the most part, what these men speak about is just constant physical abuse.

This means beatings.

Being kicked and dragged.

And it also means restraint positions.

Many of the men spoke about a position they called the grua position, the crane position. They were forced to kneel for hours and handcuffed behind their backs and then at times, lifted by the handcuffs to put pressure on their shoulders and backs, and sometimes also stomped on their feet and hands while in this position.

[C]

That sounds like torture.

[D]

This abuse goes on for months. And they talk about getting to points of extreme psychological desperation. And one day they sort of start to crack, and they decide that they're going to stop eating and ask for better treatment. And they decide that they want to write their messages. They take some metal from the beds and cut themselves and using their own blood, write on the sheets messages like, we are not criminals. We are migrants. And they hang these sheets from what they called the piping in the cells.

[C]

I mean, they are that despondent that they are writing messages of protest in their own blood. That's how far gone the situation has become.

[D]

Exactly. I don't think that they believed they had any other options. And this was something. But what happens next is an even bigger rebellion. In May, there's a guard search of one of these cells. And during this search.

Officials beat a man so badly that he is bleeding from head to toe, according to Luis.

And this sets off so much anger that some of the inmates dislodge metal parts from their bed and use the metal parts to open cell doors. And for a moment, some of these men had this taste of something like freedom. Then, of course, they immediately realize that they are completely outmatched by the guards.

Luis tells us they retreat into their cells, and that is when the guards begin going cell by cell and really punishing the men, shooting them at point blank with what they call rubber bullets in the hand, in the head, in the leg.

My photographer colleague traveled around Venezuela photographing these men. And you can see one of them has this gash down the front of his face that he said was caused by a rubber bullet that ricocheted off of his forehead. There is another man who said that he was shot in the thigh with a rubber bullet and has this really sort of gnarly welt in his thigh that we documented.

[C]

What happened after this shooting. Did these men get any kind of medical treatment?

[D]

So they talk about asking for medical care following these injuries, and some of them were eventually taken to an infirmary. The man with the bullet in his leg, for example, talks about it being removed without any kind of anesthesia. And Louise describes how after this attempted rebellion, what really happens is there is a sort of new wave of punishment and repression inside the prison.

[C]

And what does that look like?

[D]

So there is an isolation room in the prison that the men spoke to us about. They call la isla the island.

And these men say that the island is really the Place where some of the most depraved acts occurred.

Luis speaks about experiencing punishment that included having his head dunked in water as if the guards were attempting to drown him.

And, you know, this is pretty graphic for. For some of our listeners, but one of the inmates talks about being taken there alone by several of the guards wearing hoods, who forced him to perform oral sex in this space.

[C]

Julie, throughout this period, as all these horrific actions are allegedly occurring, are these men able to speak to anyone in the outside world? Through phone calls, emails, anything?

[D]

These men are denied access to the people they want to speak to. During this entire period, they receive two important visits. One from Kristi Noem, the head of the Department of Homeland Security, and from the Red Cross, which speaks to them, interviews them, and delivers a report to the government of El Salvador, but never makes that report public.

[C]

Hmm. And as we know, Secretary Noem praises this operation. So it would seem she did not hear these kinds of accounts from these men.

[D]

We don't know what Kristi Noem heard while she was inside the prison. What we know is that these men felt so powerless that several of them began to contemplate suicide. Luis is one of these men.

He had heard inside the prison that if one person died, maybe all of them would be able to go free. And he gets a sheet. He gets up on one of the beds and he indicates to his fellow inmates that he's going to hang himself. And they pull him down.

He said, were it not for these men, Ms. Compaeros, I would not be here today telling you the story that I'm telling you.

[C]

I want to ask you what might seem like a somewhat insensitive question given the really shocking descriptions from these men. But I think as journalists, we have to ask it. How do you and our colleagues go about making sure that this harrowing testimony is true?

[D]

This is a very important and fair question. Of course, we interviewed 40 of these men. Their testimonies were consistent with each other's, but we weren't inside the prison. We couldn't speak to the guards. We couldn't speak to officials in El Salvador. And so we wanted somebody else to help us understand how much we should believe these testimonies. And so we reached out to a non profit group of forensic experts and we provided them with a summary of the testimony as well as photographs of the injuries, in some cases, doctor's reports.

[C]

You basically asked them to audit your reporting.

[D]

Correct. And what they said was that the testimony and the other evidence that we provided were consistent and credible. And they said that in their assessment, much of the abuse that was described met the United nations definition of torture.

[C]

And I think it bears repeating that this is torture inflicted on men whose deportation to this prison was not based on any normal legal process. They were never tried on allegations of being terrorists. In fact, the only judge who ever touched their case was a federal judge in the US who tried to stop the flights carrying many of them from ever landing in El Salvador, an order that the Trump administration pretty much ignored. And in the case of Luis, yes, there are charges of theft in the.

[B]

US that in theory might merit a regular old deportation.

[C]

But in no world would the allegations against someone like him ever seem to justify beatings and torture in a prison in El Salvador.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

I'm curious, what motivated the release of these men, if inevitably releasing them would mean that they could tell these stories to the world, stories of essentially torture?

[D]

It's a good question. And I think that many of us following the story thought that these men might spend the rest of their lives in this prison. But the Venezuelan government, which wanted the release of these men, had a bargaining chip. And that bargaining chip is that the government of Nicolas Maduro, the country's autocrat, had been detaining US Citizens and US Residents inside Venezuela over the last year. And so by July had amassed a sort of group of 10 US prisoners. And the government of Venezuela negotiated with the government of the United States the release of these 10 U.S. citizens and residents in exchange for the freedom of these now 252 men who were in the Salvadoran prison.

[C]

So in the end, it's Maduro, not Trump, who forces these men's awful saga to come to an end.

[D]

Yes, I mean, the Maduro government definitely has a hand in, in securing these men's freedom.

[C]

So I just want to reflect on what happened in this prison and why it happened. And at the end of the day, it happened because the Trump administration wanted it to happen. And I'm old enough, and I suspect you are too, to remember when the United States had to reckon in a very visible and official way with the idea that it had carried out torture systematically after 911 to those that the US had detained in response to those terror attacks that year. And when the conduct that occurred to these detainees was revealed, American officials, members of Congress, were so offended and so convinced that it betrayed America's values that they released a report documenting it so the whole country could see it. And they said, this will never happen again. And here it is again, not conducted by the US per se as it was after 9 11, but this time, in a sense, outsourced to a foreign country by American government officials.

How should we think about that?

[D]

It's hard to imagine that US Officials did not have some idea that something like this was going to happen inside the Salvadoran prison. Just two years before these men were sent there, the US Government released its own report. It's a public report, saying that there was strong reason to believe that torture was happening inside the Salvadoran prison system.

[C]

Wow. They knew.

[D]

They knew. And, I mean, one of the questions I have is why there has not been more outrage about what these men experienced inside this prison. Why we have not seen the same kind of outrage that we saw after.

[C]

9 11, and why do you think that is? If you had to make an educated journalistic guess here.

[D]

Yeah, it's very interesting that the Trump administration and the Bukele administration didn't really try and hide any of this. Donald Trump came into the White House promising to address the immigration problem at the border in the country in general, and he promised to deter migration, and that is what he has done. I mean, the numbers at the US Border are way down. And what I was thinking about a lot as I was reporting this story is how far, basically, are Americans willing to go for migration deterrence? And, you know, when we went to the Trump administration with our findings, they did not deny any of the testimony. Instead, a spokeswoman said to us that we should be focusing our reporting elsewhere, specifically on children who had been killed by, quote, vicious illegal aliens.

[C]

Hmm. I mean, first of all, that suggests that the men who end up in this prison in El Salvador have killed children. And I don't believe you found any evidence of that. Putting that aside, this sounds like a spokesperson for the White House basically saying to the New York Times, we've seen all your reporting. We've seen these accounts of torture of men we put in this prison, and our response is, who cares? Which is very striking.

[D]

Correct. And I should mention that the legal door is still open for the Trump administration to continue sending people to El.

[C]

Salvador and to this prison in El Salvador.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

I want to end by asking you, what has become of men like Luis now that they are released? Have they achieved anything resembling normalcy now that they are back in Venezuela, a country, of course, that they had sought to flee, which is why they came to the United States in the first place. Now they are back, having been through this experience. What are they saying life is like right now?

[E]

Sure.

[D]

Well, Luis, for one, is separated from his family, his partner and their three children. Are in the United States. All of these men talked about suffering pretty intense psychological trauma as well as physical problems. They talked about blurred vision, recurring migraines, trouble breathing. Many of them described themselves as zombies, essentially.

[C]

This sounds like a form of ptsd, for sure.

[D]

They talked about not being able to sleep and when they do sleep, experiencing a sensation of feeling like they're back in the prison. And one of the men in particular described going to bed and hearing the rattle of handcuffs, the voices of Salvadoran officials, and the clang of his cell.

[C]

Well, Julie, thank you very much.

[B]

We appreciate it.

[D]

Thanks, Michael.

[B]

We'll be right back.

[A]

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[B]

And later today, the Supreme Court will hear arguments in a major test of President Trump's power. The case revolves around the question of whether Trump can fire a Democratic member of the Federal Trade Commission, an independent agency, simply because she is not aligned with his political agenda. An existing law says that the president can only remove commissioners for wrongdoing or for neglecting their duties. A ruling in Trump's favor would overturn 90 years of legal precedent.

Today's episode was produced by Carlos Prieto and Michael Simon Johnson with help from Eric Krupke. It was edited by Patricia Willins with help from Lexi Dio. Contains original original music by Diane Wong, Marion Lozano and Dan Powell and was engineered by Chris Wood. Special thanks to TBC Romera, Sheila Ordoneta, Issa Yan Herrera and Adriana Larrero Fernandez.

That's it for the Daily I'm Michael Balbaro. See you tomorrow.

[E]

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