The Daily – "Trump, Tylenol and Autism"

Date: September 23, 2025

Host: Michael Barbaro

Guest: Azin Gurarie

Overview

This episode unpacks President Trump’s extraordinary televised news conference in which he made unscientific and alarming claims about autism, Tylenol, and vaccines. New York Times reporter Azin Gurarie joins Michael Barbaro to dissect what the president said, what the science shows, and the fallout and confusion now facing American families and doctors.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Context: Autism Data and the Press Conference

• CDC's Latest Numbers Rise Sharply: In April, the CDC reported that 1 in 31 U.S. children has an autism diagnosis, five times higher than in 2000 (02:22).
• RFK Jr.'s Role: As health secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. labeled autism an “epidemic” and promised answers about its causes by September, a timeline expert researchers found implausible (03:36).
• Monday’s News Conference: The stage was set for “answers,” but instead, President Trump dominated with controversial, unsubstantiated medical claims (03:54, 04:14).

2. Trump’s Claims: Tylenol, Vaccines, and Autism

Tylenol & Autism

• Trump’s Directives to Pregnant Women:
  • “Tylenol, don’t take it. Don’t take it.” (06:02)
  • “Fight like hell not to take it.” (06:11)
  • “Tough it out.” (06:13)
  • Despite not being a doctor, Trump said, “Life is common sense, too.” (06:34)
• Warning vs. Evidence: Trump painted the link as clear and imperative, telling pregnant women to avoid Tylenol—the "only painkiller really recommended for use in pregnancy," per Gurarie (06:21).

Vaccines & Autism

• Overloaded Schedule Claim: Trump insisted children receive “too many vaccines,” suggesting, “It’s like 80 different vaccines. And beyond vaccines and 80 too many” (07:28).
• Hepatitis B & MMR: Trump argued newborns shouldn’t get certain vaccines like hepatitis B (“no reason to give a baby that’s almost just born hepatitis B”) and implied a link to autism (07:47).
• Demographics & Myths: Trump suggested Amish communities don’t vaccinate and have no autism—a claim Barbaro promptly rebuffed as false (08:07–08:28).

Notable Quotes

• President Trump on Tylenol:

  “So taking Tylenol is not good. I’ll say it. It’s not good.” (05:39) “Don’t take Tylenol, and don’t give it to your child after your child is born.” (08:30)

• President Trump on Vaccines:

  "Break it up, break it up because it’s too much liquid. Too many different." (07:15)

• Barbaro’s Fact Check:

  “Neither of those statements is true.” – on Trump’s Amish and vaccine/autism claims (08:12)

3. What the Science Says

Tylenol (Acetaminophen) in Pregnancy

• No Evidence of Causality:

  • Gurarie: “No study has shown that Tylenol use in pregnancy causes autism in children. I want to be very clear about that.” (09:36)

• Association vs. Causation:

  • Observational studies found at most a correlation, but experts like the epidemiologist cited by RFK cautioned not to confuse this with causation. Gurarie uses the “ice cream sales and crime” analogy to explain confounding variables (10:01).
  • Sibling studies: No link when controlling for genetics (12:02).

• Risk of Not Treating Fevers:

  • Gurarie: “Fevers in pregnancy come at great risk to both the mother and the fetus...every medical group has made clear fevers are not things that should be left untreated during a pregnancy.” (13:19)

Vaccines & Autism

• Overwhelming Scientific Consensus:
  • “No data connecting the MMR vaccine...or hepatitis B vaccine to autism in children. Three decades of studies have shown this.” (14:36)
• Trump Revives Disproven Claims: Despite the evidence, Trump used the press conference to suggest otherwise.

4. Why These Claims? The Politics and Psychology at Play

• Trump’s Narrative:
  • Gurarie observes these claims align with Trump’s “anti establishment thinking”—that “experts knew this and were hiding it from you,” and that he alone is the “truth teller” (15:26).
• What’s Missing: The president and RFK ignore mainstream explanations—like expanded diagnostic criteria—for the rising autism numbers in favor of “pet narratives” implicating pharmaceutical companies (16:26; 21:29).

5. The Real Causes Behind Rising Autism Numbers

• Expanded Diagnosis:
  • “Over several decades, what we actually consider to be autism has broadened...” (18:32)
  • Now encompasses a spectrum from severe disability to mild social challenges—e.g., including Asperger’s (19:06).
  • The rise is “very clearly” driven by this broader definition, but not solely. Other factors: genetics, some environmental triggers (like pollution and older parental age), and unknown variables (19:40–21:06).
• Why Leaders Ignore This: Answers like diagnostic criteria changes are “a lot more boring and procedural,” lacking villains or dramatic narratives (21:29).

6. Policy & Action Announcements from the Press Conference

1. FDA Warning Label for Tylenol: Plan to “initiate the process to put a new label on acetaminophen,” warning of a possible link to autism (22:41).
2. Letter to Doctors: FDA sent a more measured letter, noting, “a causal relationship has not been established,” but still urging caution (23:41).
3. Fast-Tracked Autism Drug: Approval of leucovorin, a B-vitamin-based drug, based on very small, early studies—an “unusual” and questionable move (23:46).
4. $50 Million for Autism Research: Grants will fund both legitimate studies and, controversially, more research into vaccine-autism links (24:20).

7. Medical & Ethical Backlash

• Expert Outrage:
  • Notable quote: Head of medical ethics at NYU called the announcement, “the saddest display of a lack of evidence, rumors, recycling, old myths, outright lies, and dangerous advice I have ever witnessed by anyone in authority in the world claiming to know anything about science.” (26:25)

8. Mixed Reactions from the Autism Community

• Complex Feelings:
  • Some families “absolutely appreciate” the spotlight and research funds, but are “really, really worried” about the “recycling of discredited theories” and increased fear and blame on mothers (26:55).
  • “They see RFK and Trump doing that and they kind of don’t know what to do with it. They appreciate the focus and they really struggle with what the consequences of what that focus might be.” (28:03)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Trump: “Tylenol, don’t take it. Don’t take it.” (06:02)
• Trump: “Fight like hell not to take it.” (06:11)
• Gurarie: “No study has shown that Tylenol use in pregnancy causes autism in children. I want to be very clear about that.” (09:36)
• Barbaro: “Neither of those statements is true.” – “Amish don’t get vaccinated, don’t get autism.” (08:12)
• Ethics Expert (NYU): “The announcement on autism was the saddest display of a lack of evidence, rumors, recycling, old myths, outright lies, and dangerous advice I have ever witnessed by anyone in authority in the world claiming to know anything about science.” (26:25)
• Gurarie (on reactions): “They appreciate the focus and really struggle with what the consequences of what that focus might be.” (28:03)

Key Segments & Timestamps

| Topic/Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|------------| | CDC Data & RFK Jr.'s Promise | 02:22 | | Trump’s Tylenol & Vaccine Claims | 05:07-08:30| | Evidence on Tylenol/Autism Link | 09:36-12:36| | Medical Risks of Avoiding Tylenol | 13:19 | | Vaccine/Autism Debunking | 14:36 | | Why This Narrative? (Trump/RFK Motives) | 15:26, 21:29| | Broader Diagnosis Explained | 18:32-21:06| | Policy Actions Announced | 22:41-25:36| | Medical/Ethical Backlash | 26:25 | | Autism Community Reactions | 26:55-28:03|

Summary

This episode of The Daily provides a deeply reported, scientific, and ethical rebuttal to President Trump's dramatic claims tying Tylenol and vaccines to autism. As Azin Gurarie carefully explains, these accusations aren’t supported by evidence and could result in harm, particularly for pregnant women and parents of children with autism. The episode illustrates the tension between attention on real challenges and the dangers of unsubstantiated fear-mongering, underlining the responsibility of public figures to rely on real science—not intuition or conspiracy—when addressing public health.

For listeners: This summary covers the factual and scientific highlights, omitting the episode’s advertising and non-content sections.