The Daily (New York Times)

Episode: Trump’s Investigator Breaks His Silence
Date: January 23, 2026
Hosts: Michael Barbaro
Guest: Glenn Thrush (Reporter), Testimony from Special Counsel Jack Smith

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Jack Smith, the special counsel who led two major criminal investigations into Donald Trump. For the first time, Smith breaks his silence by publicly testifying before Congress, three years after his appointment and after being unable to prosecute his cases due to DOJ policy and Trump’s return to the presidency. The episode explores what Smith told Congress, the political stakes, the dynamics of the hearing, and the implications for the rule of law in the Trump era.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Context: Jack Smith’s Role and the Stakes

• Jack Smith’s Appointment (02:00-03:51)

  • Appointed in late 2022 by Attorney General Merrick Garland due to a conflict of interest.
  • Investigated two major cases: Trump’s attempt to overturn the 2020 election (Jan. 6) and mishandling of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago.
  • Smith obtained grand jury indictments, but cases were paused due to Trump’s reelection and DOJ policy prohibiting prosecution of a sitting president.

• Smith’s Vanishing Act (04:50-05:16)

  • After Trump’s inauguration, Smith retreated from public life, anticipating political retribution.

2. The Political Reason for Smith’s Testimony

• Trump’s Continued Targeting (05:32-06:28)

  • Trump pressed for Smith to testify publicly, not behind closed doors, believing it would be an opportunity to discredit and possibly prosecute him.
  • Many Republicans were reluctant, fearing it would backfire or amplify Trump’s grievances.

• The High-Stakes Atmosphere (07:16-08:25)

  • Both Republicans and Democrats saw the hearing as a proxy battle: Republicans tried to discredit Smith; Democrats aimed to showcase the case against Trump and defend Smith’s integrity.

3. Inside the Hearing Room

• Smith’s Demeanor (08:32-09:20)

  • Triathlete, stoic, visibly energized by support from Capitol Police officers present.

• Opening Statement Highlights (09:41-10:29)

  • Smith: “I am not a politician and I have no partisan loyalties. My career has been dedicated to serving our country by upholding the rule of law.” (10:00)
  • Affirms he stands by the decision to bring charges against Trump.

Smith’s Core Argument:

“Our investigation developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that President Trump engaged in criminal activity.” (Jack Smith, 10:32)

• Emphasized duty to uphold the law and rejected the idea that anyone—including a president—is above it.

4. Republicans' Line of Attack

• Challenging Smith’s Legitimacy (12:42-14:22)

  • Questioned the legality of Smith’s dual oath-taking and challenged the legitimacy of his appointment.
  • Example: Rep. Lance Gooden pressed Smith: “Why'd you need to do it twice?” (13:28)

• Scrutiny Over Investigation Tactics (14:31-18:18)

  • Focused on payments to FBI informants and, especially, Smith’s subpoenas for lawmakers’ phone toll records, including Speaker McCarthy and Rep. Chip Roy.
  • Implied Smith “spied” on Congress and suggested lack of transparency with judges.

“Did you target my records and subpoena my phone toll records?” (Rep. Chip Roy, 17:37)
Smith replied: “My understanding is your records were subpoenaed by prosecutors before I became special counsel.” (17:43)

• Republicans’ Main Argument:
  • Tried to frame Smith's investigation as partisan and overreaching, but lacked concrete evidence of collusion with the Biden administration.

5. Smith’s Responses and Discipline

• Unfazed Under Pressure (19:19)
  • When asked about regrets, Smith replied, “If I have any regret, it would be not expressing enough appreciation for my staff who work so hard in these investigations.” (Jack Smith, 19:23)
  • Refused to concede any missteps in his investigation.

6. Democrats’ Strategy: Elevating Smith and Refocusing on Trump

• Portraying Smith as a Hero (21:45-22:23)

  • Democrats framed Smith as a principled, patriotic defender of democracy.
  • Rep. Raskin: “Your willingness to speak directly... is professional, courageous, and it's patriotic.” (21:57)

• Clarifying Legal Process (22:34-24:27)

  • Demystified standard prosecutorial tools like toll record subpoenas and justified their necessity.
  • Rep. Ted Lieu: “You never, in an investigation, go and try to get someone's toll records or phone records and then tell them, hey, dude, we're about to get your phone records. Of course you wouldn't tell them.” (24:17)

• Reiterating Trump’s Alleged Crimes (25:13-26:11)

  • Rep. Pramila Jayapal walked through Smith’s indictment, confirming each step:
    • “Did your investigation find that Donald Trump attempted to manufacture fraudulent slates of presidential electors?” (25:26)
    • Smith: “Yes.” (25:38)
    • Jayapal: “Did he pressure state officials to ignore true vote counts…?” Smith: “Yes.”
    • Jayapal: “Did he spread lies and conspiracies…?” Smith: “Yes.”
    • Jayapal: “Did he pressure DOJ officials to stop the certification…?” Smith: “He did.”

• The Big Question for Democracy (26:11-26:52)

  • Jayapal: “How would you describe the toll on our democracy if we do not hold a president accountable for attempting to steal an election?” (26:11)
  • Smith:

    “If we do not hold the most powerful people in our society to the same standards of the rule of law, it can be catastrophic… It can endanger our election process… and ultimately our democracy.” (26:23)

7. Dramatic Trump Intervention During Hearing

• Trump’s Social Media Outburst (27:22-28:15)
  • During the hearing, Trump issued real-time social media posts ordering Attorney General Pam Bondi to prosecute Smith.
  • Smith’s reaction: “I will not be intimidated. I think these statements are also made as a warning to others what will happen if they stand up.” (28:33)
  • Smith maintained, “We followed the facts and we followed the law... I'm not going to pretend that didn't happen because he's threatening me.” (28:49)
  • When asked if he expected prosecution, Smith said: “I believe they will do everything in their power to do that because they've been ordered to by the President.” (29:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jack Smith, Principle of the Rule of Law:

  “No one, no one should be above the law in this country. And the law required that [Trump] be held to account.” (10:51)

• Rep. Chip Roy’s pointed questioning:

  “Did you target my records and subpoena my phone toll records?” (17:37)

• Smith on Facing Political Retribution:

  “I will not be intimidated. I think these statements are also made as a warning to others what will happen if they stand up.” (28:33)

• Michael Barbaro on episode’s irony:

  “[Republicans suggest] Jack Smith was this out of control prosecutor… But suggesting that by Republicans is a little hard to accept… given that President Trump… is totally redefining the relationship between the President and the Department of Justice and very explicitly targeting people for prosecution…” (30:37)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:31 | Glenn Thrush reports live from the Capitol after hearing | | 09:41 | Jack Smith’s opening statement and apolitical positioning | | 10:32 | Smith asserts evidence of Trump’s criminal conduct | | 14:31 | Republicans question Smith about toll records and FBI informants | | 17:37 | Rep. Chip Roy’s personal question on being targeted | | 19:23 | Smith’s only “regret” is appreciation for his staff | | 22:34 | Democrats guide Smith to clarify and defend investigation | | 25:26 | Rep. Jayapal’s point-by-point confirmation of Trump actions | | 26:23 | Smith on consequences for democracy if president isn’t held accountable | | 27:36 | Trump’s live “Truth Socialing” arises in the hearing | | 28:33 | Smith’s refusal to be intimidated by Trump’s threats | | 29:15 | Smith expects prosecution under current DOJ | | 30:06 | Barbaro/Thrush reflect on hearing’s implications |

Episode Conclusion

• The hearing provided Jack Smith with the public platform he never had in court—delivering both his legal argument and a warning about threats to rule of law.
• Republicans failed to produce evidence of Smith’s partisanship or wrongdoing, despite aggressive questioning.
• Democrats highlighted the factual basis of the Trump investigations and the importance of accountability.
• The episode underscored the irony and danger of Trump’s current efforts to use the Justice Department as a tool of vengeance, while denying those motives in Smith’s own tenure.
• Smith’s testimony—and continued resolve—may foreshadow ongoing political and legal battles over the boundaries of presidential power and the justice system.

Summary prepared to provide a comprehensive, engaging recap for listeners who missed the episode or seek a detailed understanding of this pivotal Congressional hearing.