The Daily – Venezuela, After Maduro

Date: January 6, 2026
Host: Natalie Kitroeff
Guest: Anatoly Khmernaev, NYT journalist in Caracas
Contributors: Jan Rodriguez and Carolina Hill (Venezuelan civilians)

Episode Overview

This episode examines the seismic shift in Venezuela following the removal and extradition of President Nicolás Maduro, focusing on the political power struggle in his absence, the United States' decisive influence under President Trump, and the country’s uncertain future. Journalist Anatoly Khmernaev, reporting from Caracas, unpacks why Trump backed Maduro’s former vice president rather than the popular opposition leader, what this means for Venezuela’s elites and ordinary people, and the paradoxes at the heart of this new era.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

First-hand Venezuelan Reactions: Shock, Uncertainty, and Angst

• First hours after the attack:
  • Carolina Hill (00:39): Describes the chaos & fear: “Everything went completely dark. And five seconds later, we heard the first explosion… My hands were shaking…I thought, now the gringos are here. They are attacking Caracas.”
  • Jan Rodriguez (01:37): “We were nervous but at the same time excited because we thought they were overthrowing the government.…I cry for that picture is finished. That this hell, this felt like a real victory.”
• Both express hope, confusion, and ongoing fear about what follows Maduro’s removal, with anxiety about the regime’s lingering figures.

Caracas on Edge: Atmosphere After Maduro's Ouster

• Anatoly Khmernaev’s first impressions (04:48):
  • The city is “completely deserted…like I was in a zombie movie. And I think it just sums up this atmosphere of expectation, of fear, of concern. It's just tense.”
  • Despite the regime change at the top, the apparatus of repression persists: journalists and civilians face detentions and harassment.

Who is Actually in Power? Regime “Continuity” Not Change

• The inner circle, minus Maduro and his wife, stays intact with Delsey Rodriguez—Maduro’s longtime vice president—now in charge.
• “The same characters are ruling the country.” (06:11, Khmernaev)

Why Did Trump Back Delsey Rodriguez Over the Opposition?

• Delsey Rodriguez is favored for “continuity”—critical for US aims of oil security, migration control, and business stability.
  • “She’s been able to sell herself as a reliable guardian of Venezuela’s oil industry…who can manage Venezuela's resources and protect foreign interest.” (07:23, Khmernaev)
• Opposition figure Maria Carina Machado—despite Nobel Peace Prize, international recognition, and broad popularity—was sidelined due to her inflexibility and purist anti-negotiation stance.
  • “Machado’s gravest mistake was not being able to adapt to… the transformation that Trump has brought… to the American right.” (08:47, Khmernaev)
• Trump’s approach is described as transactional and pragmatic, where “beliefs and policies are ditched… to suit the whims of people taking power.” Machado couldn’t shift from values-driven politics.

Machado’s Political Downfall: The Trap of Consistency and Alienation

• Machado refused to negotiate with Maduro, clashed with Trump envoy Richard Grenell, and alienated both Venezuelan elites and the armed forces.
  • “Negotiating is an anathema for Maria Carina Machado… She has argued for decades that freedom is not negotiable.” (10:08, Khmernaev)
• Her efforts to ingratiate herself with Trump (dedicating her Nobel, adopting Trump’s rhetoric) cost her political capital at home, while failing to sway the White House.
• Irony: Trying to win Trump’s favor by echoing his harshest critiques of Venezuelan officials, Machado lost support among the local power brokers who could make her viable.
  • “She was painting them as members of a narco cartel…that ended up spelling her political downfall.” (14:42, Khmernaev)

Why Delsey Rodriguez? The Paradox of a Marxist Technocrat as US Ally

• Delsey Rodriguez, daughter of a Marxist guerrilla but a pragmatic technocrat, engineered the country’s shift toward a radical, laissez-faire capitalism to stabilize the economy under US sanctions.
  • “She completely re-engineers Venezuelan economy.…turned it into a free for all market where money ruled.” (20:13, Khmernaev)
• While her reforms stopped short of prosperity, they created a fragile stability prized by businesses and elites—now seen as vital partners for Trump’s immediate goals.

Why Not Maduro? The Power of Symbolism and Personal Offense

• Trump reportedly rejected a deal with Maduro due to how far he’d branded him a narco-terrorist and “cartel chief”—and due to personal affronts, including Maduro publicly dancing and appearing cavalier despite US pressure.
  • “At some point Trump snaps…Maduro dancing on national television…was the straw that broke the camel’s back.” (27:16, Khmernaev)
  • “Trump saw the ongoing dancing as a humiliation…Trump could not tolerate what he saw as a personal affront.” (27:29, Khmernaev)

Delsey’s Balancing Act: Appeasing Both Americans and Loyalists

• Rodriguez initially makes defiant anti-US statements to appease hardcore regime supporters and military after the attack, but quickly pivots to calls for business and cooperation with the US.
  • “In a matter of days…she has issued a statement calling for cooperation with the United States…for joint business ventures.” (29:27, Khmernaev)
  • “You are basically opening your arms to their investments and to bilateral relations.” (30:15, Khmernaev)

The End of Chavista Ideology?

• The events are interpreted as exposing “the hollowness of the nationalist rhetoric” of chavismo.
  • “First it lost the popular support, then it lost the socialist credentials. Now it loses nationalism. And what is left? Survival.” (30:55, Khmernaev)

How Ordinary Venezuelans Feel: Bittersweet, Weary Realism

• Most Venezuelans are cautious—relieved Maduro is gone, but skeptical and saddened to see the same regime in power, now heavily influenced by the US.
  • “…when they watch Delsey being sworn in as the country’s interim president, this is not the outcome they would have hoped for… but…it just might make their difficult life just a little bit easier.” (32:24, Khmernaev)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jan Rodriguez, on emotional whiplash:

  “We were nervous but at the same time excited because we thought they were overthrowing the government. …This felt like a real victory.” (01:37)

• Anatoly Khmernaev, describing Caracas post-attack:

  “It felt like I was in a zombie movie. …An atmosphere of expectation, of fear, of concern. It's just tense.” (04:48)

• Anatoly Khmernaev, on elite realpolitik:

  “Economic freedoms do not always correlate with political freedoms. And …for Trump, what matters to him is the deals and the investments of the elites.” (24:19)

• Anatoly Khmernaev, on the Marudo-Trump rift:

  “Trump saw the ongoing dancing as…Maduro calling Trump’s bluff…Trump could not tolerate what he saw as a personal affront.” (27:29)

• Anatoly Khmernaev, crystallizing ordinary Venezuelan sentiment:

  “…most people in Venezuela…this is not the outcome they would have hoped for. …But it just might make their difficult life just a little bit easier.” (32:24)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:31-03:19] Venezuelan civilians describe the attack and aftermath
• [04:48-05:49] On-the-ground atmosphere in Caracas; repression
• [06:11-06:49] Explanation of regime continuity, Delsey’s rise
• [07:23-10:02] Why Trump chose Delsey over Machado; transactional US foreign policy
• [10:08-13:07] Machado’s uncompromising stance costs her US and local support
• [16:36-19:01] The calculus for elites, the paradox of Delsey and Machado
• [19:01-21:25] Delsey’s economic overhaul—her pragmatic capitalism
• [22:34-24:19] How Delsey won over elites, Machado’s loss of business support
• [25:31-27:29] Why Trump rejected Maduro: personal insult & “narco” image
• [28:57-30:28] Delsey’s tightrope between US demands and regime hardliners
• [30:28-31:52] The ideological vacuum of Chavismo after nationalist collapse
• [32:24-33:23] Everyday Venezuelans’ mixed feelings and tempered hopes

Conclusion

Through firsthand accounts and deep analysis, the episode illuminates how Venezuela’s “after Maduro” reality is both new and eerily familiar—another round of disappointment for a battered nation, this time with the US as an openly dominant force. The episode deftly unpacks the hard realpolitik driving Trump’s choices and the paradox that a Marxist technocrat emerges as the best hope for US interests—while the dreams of democracy and justice among ordinary Venezuelans remain uncertain and deferred.