What an Iowa Farmer Fears About the Trade War

Summary

Summary of "What an Iowa Farmer Fears About the Trade War"

Episode: What an Iowa Farmer Fears About the Trade War
Release Date: April 24, 2025
Podcast: The Daily by The New York Times
Host: Michael Barbaro

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Introduction

In this episode of The Daily, host Michael Barbaro delves into the profound impact of the escalating trade war between the United States and China on American soybean farmers. The discussion centers around April Hemmes, a 65-year-old soybean and corn farmer from Iowa, who has been instrumental in cultivating the $13 billion US soybean market in China. Through her firsthand experiences, Hemmes sheds light on the complexities and challenges faced by farmers amidst unprecedented tariffs and retaliatory measures.

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Background: The Foundation of US-China Soybean Trade

April Hemmes provides a historical perspective on the development of the soybean trade between the US and China.

Key Points:

• Hemmes returned to her family's century-old farm in 1985 after briefly working in Washington, D.C.
• The late 1980s and early 1990s marked a pivotal shift as the US grappled with the farm crisis, characterized by high interest rates and overproduction.
• To mitigate the crisis, American farmers began exporting soybeans, with China emerging as a significant market due to its growing population and demand for agricultural products.

Notable Quote:

"We weren't trading around the world and exporting like we are now. And so China imports our whole soybean and they crush it there." (04:37)

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Building Relationships: Hemmes' Engagement with China

Hemmes discusses her active role in fostering US-China agricultural relations through participation in various boards and market study tours.

Key Points:

• Her involvement with the United Soybean Board and the Iowa Soybean Board facilitated multiple trips to China.
• During these visits, Hemmes and her colleagues aimed to establish trust and showcase the quality of American soybeans.
• An illustrative anecdote highlights the cultural and operational differences witnessed in Chinese farming practices, emphasizing the challenges and opportunities in the partnership.

Notable Quote:

"The personal connection, the personal relationship, because it doesn't come down to price. But when we can tell our stories and they have a face to put with that farmer, it goes a long way." (15:49)

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The Impact of the Trade War

With the imposition of sky-high tariffs by President Trump, Hemmes outlines the detrimental effects on the soybean market.

Key Points:

• US tariffs on soybeans reached up to 145%, while China retaliated with tariffs up to 125%, severely impacting American farmers.
• Over half (53%) of US soybean exports are directed to China, making the tariffs a significant blow to the agricultural sector.
• Hemmes elaborates on the uncertainty and instability these tariffs introduce, complicating farmers' ability to plan and sustain their operations.

Notable Quotes:

"We need some kind of stability. Right now, it's not stability at all." (20:28)
"If China stopped buying American soybeans, our price would go down. There's no other answer to that." (23:24)

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Personal and Economic Struggles

Hemmes shares the personal struggles and broader economic implications resulting from the trade tensions.

Key Points:

• Increased costs of farming inputs such as seeds, chemicals, and fertilizers have strained farmers financially.
• The unpredictability of tariffs hampers long-term planning and investment, threatening the viability of farms.
• Hemmes emphasizes the interconnectedness of global economies, highlighting that both the US and China rely heavily on each other for economic stability.

Notable Quote:

"We've worked for these relationships, and to have the two biggest economies in the world not talking is not good for anyone." (27:08)

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Efforts and Hopes for Resolution

Despite the challenges, Hemmes remains hopeful for a resolution to the trade disputes.

Key Points:

• Hemmes advocates for direct dialogue between US and Chinese leaders to negotiate and stabilize trade relations.
• She underscores the importance of sustained personal relationships in bridging economic divides.
• Hemmes calls for an understanding of the extensive efforts farmers invest in maintaining international trade partnerships.

Notable Quote:

"I wish they would understand that all the time and effort that's gone into this, which for you has been a long time." (27:08)

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Conclusion

April Hemmes' insights highlight the delicate balance American farmers must maintain in global trade dynamics. The trade war with China not only threatens their livelihoods but also underscores the broader implications of international economic relationships. Hemmes' dedication to fostering these connections exemplifies the resilience and proactive spirit of the agricultural community in the face of adversity.

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Timestamps

• 04:37 – Overview of soybean exports to China
• 15:49 – Importance of personal relationships in trade
• 20:28 – Need for stability amidst tariffs
• 23:24 – Impact of China potentially stopping soybean purchases
• 27:08 – Call for understanding and resolution in trade relations

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This summary captures the essence of the episode, focusing on the critical discussions between Michael Barbaro and April Hemmes about the challenges faced by Iowa soybean farmers amid the US-China trade war. The included quotes and timestamps provide a structured and detailed overview for listeners seeking to understand the multifaceted impacts of international trade policies on agriculture.

Transcript

[David]

David.

[David Marchese]

I'm David Marchese.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

And I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro.

[David Marchese]

And we're the hosts of the Interview from the New York Times.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

David and I have spent our careers interviewing some of the most interesting and influential people in the world, which means.

[David Marchese]

We know when to ask tough questions and when to just sit back and listen.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

And now we've teamed up to have these conversations every week. We'll try to reveal something about the people shaping our world.

[David Marchese]

And we'll get some great stories from them, too.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

It's the Interview from the New York Times. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Marchese]

Hello.

[David]

It must be Jessica. Yes.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

It must be April.

[David]

Yes. Nice to meet you. You too. So do you want a tour of the empire first? Yes, I would love.

[Michael Barbaro]

A few days ago, Daily producer Jessica Chung traveled to Iowa to meet with a farmer.

[David]

So this is from way up there where you see those poles to down there. There's a creek down there. This is all you? Yeah. One of my fields, it was a corn field last year. And then I will just go in and plant it in soybeans. And it's amazing to look at this now and then come back in August and they'll be, if weather permitting, they'll be waist high. And what will the crop look like? Green, leafy, you know, waves.

[Jessica Chung]

Waves.

[David]

Waves of green soybeans. Yes. But for me here in Iowa, it's usually April is go time. That's planting season. So right now I want to get these soybeans in the ground. I want to plant, and we want to plan. The thing about the terrace, it's hard to plan when they're out there looming. You know what's going to happen?

[Michael Barbaro]

From the New York Times, I'm Michael Balbaro. This is the daily. In the increasingly bitter trade war between the United States and China, perhaps nobody has more at stake than America's soybean farmers, whose crop has become the country's single biggest export to China. Today, I speak with an Iowa farmer who helped build the $13 billion market for US soybeans in China about what the sky high tariffs instigated by President Trump now means for her and tens of thousands of American farm. It's Thursday, April 24th.

[David Marchese]

Hi, April.

[David]

Hi. How are you? You're sitting in a closet.

[David Marchese]

I'm standing in a closet.

[David]

Wow. That's all you can afford up there at the New York Times, huh? Wow. Sorry.

[David Marchese]

I decided to do this from home. Oh, speaking of backgrounds, are you in your kitchen?

[David]

I'm. Yes.

[David Marchese]

What is that stuff on the wall behind you?

[David]

So it's pictures of where I've been and some of my personal travels and.

[David Marchese]

Soybean travels and anything from China on those walls?

[David]

Yeah, yeah. The terracotta soldiers and the Forbidden City is over there.

[April Hemmes]

Wow.

[David]

Lots of good stuff.

[David Marchese]

Well, are you feeling ready for this conversation?

[David]

Rock and roll.

[David Marchese]

Can I just start for the benefit of our listeners by asking you to tell us your name, with your permission, your age and what you do on the farm.

[David]

So I'm April Hemmes. I am a 65 year old farmer. I'm here on my family century farm. My great grandfather purchased it in 1901. I raise soybeans and corn on my farm in Iowa and the best soil in the world and been on a lot of different boards through the years. United Soybean Board and the Iowa Soybean Board. So part of my travels to China were promoting soybeans.

[David Marchese]

And how much of your crop ends up being shipped to China?

[David]

Right now, about 53%. Over half of the soybeans exported in the US go to China.

[David Marchese]

Wow.

[David]

And that's huge. You know, the American farmers were very good at what we do. We raise very high quality crops. And so we're so good, we don't use it all here domestically. We have a great domestic market, but we need to export it. So China imports our whole soybean and they crush it there. Cause that's the value is crushing that soybean we call it. And then like 80% is the meal and around 20% is the oil. And the meal goes to feed all their livestock. And there are a few, I think there's a. The largest pork producers in the planet. They raise the most pork. So a lot of our soybeans get fed to their pork and ducks and chickens. Poultry. And then the oil, all the oil gets used for human use, for frying.

[David Marchese]

Got it. The reason we wanted to talk to you about all of this is because you, April, occupy a really interesting and kind of pivotal place in the story of how that relationship between Iowa farmers and China came to be. And we want you to tell that story. And I think that it would be helpful to begin with the past, basically what the world looked like before farmers like you and those around you sent so much of your crop to China. So can we start by having you paint a picture for us of what it was like in the before? I don't know where you would start that, but I'm going to guess it's a few decades ago.

[David]

So I came home in 1985. This is actually my 40th year at home on the farm, which is quite amazing to me. So I graduated in animal science from Iowa State University, and then I worked at the Iowa swine testing station for a little while. And then I got a phone call. We need somebody to talk IOWAN In Washington, D.C. greeting people to a brand new elected congressman. And I learned pretty quickly that's not where I wanted to be. My goal all along was to come back to the farm. I kind of made that decision and called home and I said, I want to come back to the farm. And my dad said, no, you're not coming back to the farm. This is terrible timing. And my grandfather was the one who said, she wants to come back and farm. She's coming back. So.

[David Marchese]

Well, what about the timing was terrible.

[David]

So it was the farm crisis. So everything just fell apart. We had huge interest rates, so it was like 16% interest. And then the price of the land was going up. So some people bought land, very high price with a very high interest rates. And then our commodity prices were not good. And then once farmers started failing, the banks started failing. So we had a lot of agriculture, banks go out of business, and it was a time of white crosses in the courtyard when they had to go sell farms and people selling off their, you know, possessions to make bank payments, things like that.

[David Marchese]

Am I right, April, in remembering from some civics book I read many, many years ago that a factor in the farm crisis was that there was simply too much crop.

[David]

We did have overproduction. We just had too much. We weren't trading around the world and exporting like we are now. And so that's really late 80s, early 90s is when that focus to export, especially to China, really ramped up.

[David Marchese]

Why was that market seen as a potential answer to the farm crisis?

[David]

Well, because they had such a growing population then, and we knew we had extra we had to export to. But you have to develop these things, and it takes a long time to develop relationships and trust. And that all started, it actually started with President Nixon going there in the 70s, and you just start building that trust. And then they started importing in the 90s from the US soybeans.

[David Marchese]

You just hinted at how this is a relationship that needs to be worked on. It doesn't happen on its own. So how do you, April, go from being a farmer who may be benefiting from this new Chinese market to somebody personally involved in working on and even expanding the relationship between farmers in places like Iowa and China? How's that happen?

[David]

Right. Well, it happens that I'M getting involved in your local boards or state boards, or in my case, national boards. So, you know, let's zoom through the 90s into the 2000s, and through the Iowa Farm Bureau. I got to visit China for the first time on a market study tour. And it was a bunch of Iowa farmers. And what first struck us on our bus rides was the agriculture, of course. Cause we're farmers, and it's not just big, huge fields like we're used to here. It was very, very small parcels put together. So that's how they got to lease the ground from the government. So it's all hand done. We saw the stover from the corn piled in the corn. The stover is the corn stalks, anything but the corn. And they would use that to heat their houses. You know, they were drying their wheat on the road. They had spread the wheat out on the road to dry it.

[David Marchese]

So you're noticing some real limitations in how China farms.

[David]

Yes. And one of the biggest ones, they took us to one of their show farms, and the interpreters always wanted to be by me and talk to me.

[David Marchese]

And so they said, I can't imagine why.

[David]

I know, April, is this just like your farm? Now, it's the same size as my farm. A thousand acre farm. There were like 400 land owners, let's say they didn't own it, but. Right. And the Chinese are very good at showing you what they want you to see. There were like 24 row combines lined up, little tiny tractors, you know, a bunch of those. And the. And the interpreter said, april, is this like your tractor? And I said, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but that is like the tractor I mow my lawn with.

[David Marchese]

Wow.

[David]

And it's like I said, no, what you're doing on this farm, I do by myself.

[David Marchese]

So what happens after that initial market tour trip?

[David]

So I was really glad I went on that. I assumed it was going to be the last time I only time I ever got there. But then Fast forward to 2015, and I was appointed to the United Soybean Board by the Secretary of Ag. And so I was asked to go on a trip there to support soybeans. And that's where I met Honorable Mr. President Bien. And if you ever go to China, I hope you guys have a chance to. And you meet public officials. It's these huge rooms with the large murals in the background and you're just in awe. And it's meant to be that way, I think, you know. So I met with him very Cordial. And he.

[David Marchese]

And just. Just for those who may not understand, what is his role in the Chinese economy and government?

[David]

Yeah, he was the president of the Commerce Department for Food and Natural Agriculture Products. So it's who we talked to when we went over there, because he was kind of the head of that Commerce Department, guys.

[David Marchese]

So you're kind of. You're kind of talking to the big cheese when it comes to soybeans.

[David]

He was the dude. Yes, he was the man. So, you know, we meet and you go into this big room. You know, I'm not a negotiator for the government or anything. I was there to tell my story. Talk about the high quality soybeans. I just told them how I raised my crops. You know, this is how I, you know, I plant my soybeans. I keep my water quality high, how I harvested them weed free. And then afterwards, there's usually a supper or a dinner and literally the big spinny table where you get to pick what you eat. The whole fish presented or the whole duck. The Peking duck with the head on it and everything, you know, and then they come out and serve you. It's really. It's quite grand when you have a state meal, but then they bring the soju out and it's rocket fuel, basically. That's alcohol. And then you do toasts. And so, you know, you go around and the person that's hosting goes around to every single person and does a toast to them and you say gumbe, which means bottoms up and then down it. And the higher the official, the better the booze, as we say. But they're not telling.

[David Marchese]

So in this burgeoning, kind of personal set of relationships between you and the Chinese government and their economic community, do they end up sending their folks over to you?

[David]

Yeah. So the United Soybean Export Council used to bring soybean buyers from China and take a tour in the fall and bring them to the farm so they can see what kind of a crop we're going to have. Is it going to be a good crop? You know, are they going to have plenty of beans? And in the fall in Iowa, we host the World Food Prize here. And that's when Honorable Mr. President Bien came.

[David Marchese]

Oh, wait, that same official came to Iowa?

[David]

Yes, and he came to my farm. I knew they were gonna stop by. I didn't know it was gonna be him. And so I was combining corn. So I said, let's go hop in the combine. And I go, okay. And I showed him. Cause it's auto steer. So you Push a button and it steers itself. But he wanted to steer that thing. So he was driving over my 240 bus corn, and I was getting a little upset with him.

[David Marchese]

Michael, is he sort of destroying your corn?

[David]

Yeah, he was, yeah, striving over my corn. So he got. He got back. We got him back on the row, and he was going. And I was explaining how the combine works. It takes the corn off the cob. And then I said, turn around, and that's where the corn goes. And he turned around, you know, and the corn's all going in the tank in the combine. And he's just. His eyes were huge. And he just kept saying, how satisfying. How satisfying? I said, yeah, but not when you do it nine, ten hours a day. But just the amazement of being in there. And I also knew he would walk away with that, you know, driving this big, huge combine in the US and just being able to have that experience, I would think is pretty important.

[David Marchese]

Tell me in your mind why this kind of interaction matters. You talking to this Chinese economic official, this Chinese economic official talking to you, like, fundamentally, what is the value of this?

[David]

I think the value is that personal connection, the personal relationship, because it doesn't. You. I mean, it does come down to price. But when we can tell our stories and they have a face to put with that farmer, you know, they can go, oh, soybean farmer April. Yeah, I know her. I've talked to her. I know how she raises her crop. I know. I've been to her farm. You know, things like that. That personal connection goes a long way. You know, Am I saying it goes a lot farther than cheaper soybeans? No, but when it comes to.

[David Marchese]

It's a factor.

[David]

It really is. And it's amazing to me how much of a factor it can be. And it does mean something now because they have other places they can go, and yet they still buy over half of our soybeans we export.

[David Marchese]

Overall, how many times do you end up going to China?

[David]

Eight or nine times. At least nine times, I think.

[David Marchese]

Wow. During this period, as you're making all these trips and as these relationships are clearly growing, how much is the actual trade relationship growing between Iowa farmers, soybean farmers especially, and China? Like, if there's a graph, a chart that shows what's happening during this period.

[David]

Oh, that chart's a beauty in 2016 or 2017, because it was growing, growing, growing, and then the first tariff set, and then, boom, down.

[Michael Barbaro]

We'll be right back.

[April Hemmes]

Hey, it's Ben Fruman, editor in chief. Of Wirecutter, we put together the ultimate guide to make moving way less miserable and I wanted to find out a few of our writers favorite tips.

[Jessica Chung]

When you move into your new place, it's not a priority to have everything to make a beef Wellington for your first night, but you are going to want a knife to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich probably.

[April Hemmes]

What do you recommend?

[Ben Fruman]

Buy a mattress bag. You can carry a mattress more easily because the handles are built in and it's going to protect your mattress from the truck and the street.

[April Hemmes]

Let's talk safety essentials.

[David]

When you're first moving into your home, make sure that you change the batteries in your smoke detector. It just gives you a peace of mind and you won't have to worry about the chirpy sound that happens every minute or so.

[April Hemmes]

I've gone to the grocery store for used empty boxes.

[Ben Fruman]

That's no good. Invest in good boxes. It will save you so much time and money.

[Jessica Chung]

Make sure you have towels on hand. You don't want to end up taking a shower and using a dirty sock to dry off.

[David]

Yeah.

[April Hemmes]

Whether you're prepping, moving or settling into your new place, let Wirecutter help you make a plan. Come Visit [e-mail] Moving.

[David Marchese]

Let'S talk about today. After spending all these years cultivating the relationships that you have so successfully cultivated and that has been beneficial to both sides. China, getting the soybeans. Farmers like you selling so much to China. I, I want to know what it's been like to watch over the past few weeks as these historically high tariffs go into place. First by the US and reaching up to I think 145%. Then China retaliates. Theirs go up to 125% which directly, directly impacts you. So what is the state of the relationship right now between the U.S. you mean today? Yeah, right now. What is this?

[David]

What is this Donald Trump up and you call the president up and ask him. So you know, so I'm sorry, wasn't going to get political. But.

[David Marchese]

Well, since, since you raised. Since you raised it. Did you vote for this?

[David]

No. I knew it was coming here. It was. I never answer that question.

[David Marchese]

It's private.

[David]

I have been asked that question every single time I'm interviewed and my answer is it doesn't matter who I voted for. We have him for a president and farmers tend not to look back. We like to look forward, you know, and I just wish. The unstability of everything right now is probably what bothers me more than anything. You Know, I worry about the. What's the weather going to do, what are the markets going to do, what's going to do next for tariffs? But we need, especially in agriculture, quite honestly, in any industry, in order to plan, we need some kind of stability. Right.

[David Marchese]

And this is not stability.

[David]

Absolutely not. And not just in agriculture, but in the bond market, in the stock market, everywhere. So it's hard for businesses such as farming or any other business to plan when we don't know if we're going to have a market to go to, you know? So I think, I hope. Let me put it this way, I hope at the end of the day, they get together sooner rather than later. And whether it's Che and Trump or whoever, they get together and figure something out and say, let's start working on this. Because not doing anything isn't helping anyone.

[David Marchese]

I'm curious if, since this all began over the past month or so, if you've been in touch with any of your contacts over in China. That secretary, for instance.

[David]

Yeah. No, he retired several years ago. So I don't get to chat. I don't get to see Honorable Mr. President Bien anymore. And I have seen a couple buyers that live in Iowa.

[David Marchese]

You've seen some Chinese buyers in Iowa?

[David]

Yeah, yeah. Because they live in Iowa or at different events and things like that.

[David Marchese]

And what do they say?

[David]

You know, they're. They're the same way. You know, they live. They just want. They want that market there. They. They want to not worry about the unknown, you know, And I think we all expected tariffs to come back, but not to the extent that they have been and just in the past. I know the Chinese will dig in their heels, and I don't. I wonder how long the American public will dig in theirs.

[David Marchese]

Well, let's talk about the American soybean farmer. You. I mean, okay. And whether you dig in and how you dig in, I mean, what would it mean for you for tariffs on the scale that are in place and the retaliatory tariffs that are in place? What would it mean for you for those to remain in place for any meaningful stretch of time?

[David]

Quite honestly, we don't know. Other farmers I've talked to are a wait and see. Let's wait and see. You know, some think they're gonna go broke tomorrow. I always, here's what I do on my farm. I plan for the worst and hope for the best. And that's quite honestly what I did last year. I think more than anything, my inputs are gonna rise, which they're already very High.

[David Marchese]

And when you say inputs, you mean the things you need to do your farming.

[David]

The seed, the chemicals, the fertilizer. The things I need to. So I spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, over half a million right now to put the seed that isn't even in the ground yet, you know, into production.

[David Marchese]

And do the tariffs affect the prices of those?

[David]

Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yes, they do.

[David Marchese]

What would it mean if China stopped buying American soybeans?

[David]

Our price would go down. I mean, there's no other answer to that. When they buy half of what we export.

[David Marchese]

Right.

[David]

So it can do nothing but affect it.

[David Marchese]

I mean, the reason I asked that question about what it would mean if China stopped buying American soybeans is that we don't know that. It's entirely theoretical.

[David]

Right.

[David Marchese]

I mean, our own newspaper has reported that China is working on plans to replace US Farmers in this moment. Now, maybe that's just talk. Maybe that's a scare tactic. Maybe it's impossible.

[David]

Since I've been going to China, they've.

[David Marchese]

Been saying that they talk about Brazil, they talk about Argentina, and is that a real risk?

[David]

Of course it is. And I mean, I'm not going to downplay that. And that's why we need these presidents talking, not just for agriculture sake, but for everyone's sake. Because whether we like it or China likes it, our economies need each other. I mean, period, end of story. I don't know how we can do without each other.

[David Marchese]

When you think about the amount of work that you and fellow farmers put into developing the relationship between the United States and China, all the trips, all the pitches, all the meals and the translators and the tractor rides, I mean, do you think that the President of the United States understands how much all that took and how quickly something like this trade war can kind of undermine it?

[David]

Hmm. I don't know how to answer that because fortunately, I'm not in the President's head. So I think it's hard for anyone outside of agriculture to understand the amount of work we put into that or how important we know it is to our business. You know, and so that is how I look at it. I know how important it has been to many farmers I know, and what we've worked for. And I also understand the inequity of this trade and how important that is to our president. So, you know, I could. I can see that, and I hear a lot of other people, you know, talk about that. But I just. I would hope that he would consider. Would have considered that in his decision making along the way.

[David Marchese]

I'm hearing you say that on some level, perhaps the one that doesn't acknowledge how you voted, and I respect that you understand his protectionist instincts when it comes to trade, and you understand what he's up to.

[David]

Us first.

[David Marchese]

But, yeah, you're in a unique position. You may appreciate what he's up to. You may even on some level support it, but you know, personally, the cost.

[David]

Of it, that it's going to cause hurt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he evidently, he understands it, too, because he says it's going to hurt for a while. Stick with me. There's going to be pain. And so farmers know that. We're like, yeah, we know that.

[David Marchese]

Yeah, we know about the pain.

[David]

So been there, done that. It's like a school song we used to sing. Same song, second verse, a little bit louder and a little bit worse. And that's kind of what this feels like.

[David Marchese]

What do you want the White House, the president, to understand right now, given where the trade war is and given the unique perspective you have about what it took to get to this place and how much this relationship between the US And China means to soybean farmers?

[David]

I guess what I want them to understand is, rather than the snap of a finger and shock the world, honestly, to understand it takes a lot more than that. And then backtracking, I don't think that did agriculture any good, you know, to put it out there and then. And then backtrack. So, yeah, I wish you would understand that all the time and effort that's gone into this, you know, which for you has been. Yeah, it's a long time. It was a long time. But I can't say I haven't enjoyed it. And I think it's been. I wouldn't. I always get asked, why do you spend so much time on boards and doing this? I wouldn't do it if I didn't think I was doing any good. If I didn't know these relationships mattered, then I certainly wouldn't take time off my farm and be doing these things. But, yeah, no. To have the two biggest economies in the world not talking is not good for anyone. We need to have that relationship. And if a farmer can help it along, so be it.

[David Marchese]

Sounds like a farmer did help it along already.

[David]

Well, we sure tried.

[David Marchese]

Well, April, I can't thank you enough for your time.

[Michael Barbaro]

Thank you very much.

[David]

You're welcome. I enjoyed this more than I thought I would. We can do a podcast from my combine sometime. Oh, that would be really, really combine karaoke. Let's do it.

[Michael Barbaro]

We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. In their latest clash, President Trump on Wednesday demanded that Ukraine's leader, Volodymyr Zelensky, immediately accept a peace plan that heavily favors Russia, a demand that Zelensky flatly rejected. The Trump backed plan would give Russia nearly 20% of Ukraine's territory, prohibit Ukraine from joining the NATO defense alliance, and would recognize Crimea, which Russia illegally invaded in 2014, as part of Russia. US officials have warned Zelensky, Zelensky that the White House may abandon the peace talks in the coming days unless a deal is quickly reached and appear ready to blame Ukraine if the talks break down.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I think we have a deal with Russia. We have to get a deal with Zelensky and I hope that Zelensky I thought it might be easier to deal with Zelensky. So far it's been harder, but that's.

[Michael Barbaro]

Today's episode was produced by Jessica Chung, Olivia Natt, Rob Zipko and Alexandra Lee Young. It was edited by Maria Byrne, contains research help from Susan Lee, original music by Marion Lozano, Elisheba Etoupe and Dan Powell and was engineered by Chris. Our theme music is by Jim Brunford and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for the Daily I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.

[Olivia Natt]

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