TDS Time Machine | Filmmakers Pt. 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Show: Ears Edition – "TDS Time Machine | Filmmakers Pt. 2"

Release Date: August 8, 2025

In the "TDS Time Machine | Filmmakers Pt. 2" episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition, Comedy Central delves deep into the creative minds behind some of the most influential films of recent times. Hosted by Jon Stewart and the Daily Show News Team, this episode features insightful conversations with acclaimed filmmakers J.J. Abrams, Ben Affleck, Ava DuVernay, Spike Lee, and Catherine Bigelow. The discussions navigate through the intricacies of filmmaking, the emotional and technical challenges faced during production, and the profound societal impacts portrayed in their works.

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J.J. Abrams: Navigating the Filmmaking Process

Key Discussions: J.J. Abrams opens the conversation by reflecting on the rapid production timeline of his recent project, emphasizing the intense and collaborative nature of filmmaking. He highlights the emotional investment required, especially during post-production phases where the film's final form starts to take shape.

Notable Quotes:

• "The movie was. It took about a year or so from the idea to actually start shooting. And then we started shooting last September. So it was a very quick." ([02:34])
• "It's like the assistant editors. And they're all just like working together for months in this cave." ([03:07])
• "It means something." ([04:26])

Insights: Abrams discusses the pressure of releasing a film, the fear of audience reception, and the importance of having a supportive team that can provide honest feedback. He also touches upon the collaborative efforts required in television versus film, using his experience with Lost as a reference point for long-term storytelling dynamics.

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Ben Affleck: Crafting a Realistic Action-Thriller

Key Discussions: Ben Affleck shares his journey in creating a film based on true events from 1979 Iran, shedding light on the challenges of portraying real-life incidents authentically. He delves into the balance between maintaining factual accuracy and infusing cinematic elements to engage the audience.

Notable Quotes:

• "Yeah, it's a true story. It happened obviously around the hostage era, during the larger hostage crisis." ([16:22])
• "It's tense and it's funny and it's exciting." ([16:45])
• "We worked together with them. They housed our folks, saved our lives." ([19:08])

Insights: Affleck emphasizes the significance of honoring the real-life heroes involved and the emotional weight of depicting their courage and resilience. He discusses the meticulous research involved and the collaborative effort with writers and actors to bring authenticity to the narrative.

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Ava DuVernay: Humanizing Historical Figures

Key Discussions: Ava DuVernay discusses her film centered around Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., exploring the complexities of his character beyond the well-known narratives. She addresses the portrayal of King's vulnerabilities, strategic thinking, and the continuous relevance of his legacy in today's society.

Notable Quotes:

• "He was a brother from Atlanta who got swept up in history and was able to step into that greatness." ([20:34])
• "I think one of the mistakes people are making, I feel, is that they're saying this is just an American phenomenon, the rise of the right." ([21:35])
• "He was the safety." ([24:57])

Insights: DuVernay highlights the importance of presenting historical figures as multifaceted individuals with personal struggles and strategic acumen. She underscores the film's intent to spark conversations about ongoing racial injustices and the necessity of acknowledging the past to address present-day issues.

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Spike Lee: Blending Humor with Serious Themes

Key Discussions: Spike Lee brings a unique perspective by discussing his latest project, which intertwines comedy with profound themes of mortality. He shares personal anecdotes, including a humorous yet candid story about almost being featured on Time magazine's COVID cover, illustrating his characteristic blend of humor and candidness.

Notable Quotes:

• "I was watching William Crystal and Bill... I decided to pull it off while the interview was going on." ([30:36])
• "He's like, What if it's her father?" ([07:29])
• "I have never experienced what I experienced watching this movie." ([08:11])

Insights: Lee emphasizes the therapeutic role of comedy in addressing heavy subjects like mortality, making them more accessible and relatable. His stories reflect the balancing act between maintaining authenticity and infusing humor, demonstrating how comedians can effectively tackle serious issues without losing their comedic essence.

---

Catherine Bigelow: Portraying Racial Injustice with Authenticity

Key Discussions: Catherine Bigelow delves into her film Detroit, which portrays the harrowing events of police brutality and racial injustice in 1967 Detroit. She discusses the emotional toll of depicting such intense subject matter and the meticulous research involved in ensuring historical accuracy.

Notable Quotes:

• "Emotionally, it was very, very difficult, not only for the cast, but the crew." ([39:28])
• "My hope was that the film could possibly be part of a larger conversation and encourage a conversation about racial injustice in this country." ([40:57])
• "We had eyewitness accounts." ([42:55])

Insights: Bigelow underscores the responsibility filmmakers bear in portraying historical atrocities accurately and respectfully. She highlights the collaborative efforts with historians and community members to ensure the film not only tells a compelling story but also serves as a catalyst for meaningful dialogue on racial injustice.

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Conclusion: The Collective Impact of Filmmaking

Throughout the episode, the filmmakers discuss the profound impact their works aim to achieve, whether it's sparking societal conversations, honoring real-life heroes, or blending genres to tackle serious themes. Jon Stewart and the Daily Show host facilitate these deep dives, ensuring that listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the intricate processes and emotional investments behind each film.

Final Thoughts: This episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition offers an enriching exploration of modern filmmaking, highlighting how filmmakers like J.J. Abrams, Ben Affleck, Ava DuVernay, Spike Lee, and Catherine Bigelow navigate the complexities of storytelling to create impactful cinema. Their discussions provide valuable insights into the balancing act between commercial success and authentic storytelling, emphasizing the role of film in reflecting and shaping societal narratives.

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For more insightful conversations and extended content, listeners can subscribe to The Daily Show: Ears Edition on their preferred podcast platform or stream full episodes on Paramount+.

Transcript

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[Host]

You're listening to Comedy Central. Please welcome J.J. abrams. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Sid. Sid, thanks. Congratulations. The number one film not just in this nation, this great nation of ours, but in the entire of the Americas as well as I'm going to go with Indonesia and parts of Brazil.

[J.J. Abrams]

Thank you very much.

[Host]

It's very exciting. Thank you.

[J.J. Abrams]

Thank you very much.

[Host]

Is it difficult? You know, we do this show every day and some days it can suck. But when it does, we come back in the next day and we do it again. A film you invested. How much time did you put into making just this film? Super 8.

[J.J. Abrams]

The movie was. It took about a year or so from the idea to actually start shooting. And then we started shooting last September. So it was a very quick.

[Host]

That is for Filmmaking, that's awfully quick.

[J.J. Abrams]

It was a very quick production and post production schedule. Insanely tight post production schedule.

[Host]

But even within that, how difficult is it to lay something like that out and wait for that one weekend? What do you do on that one weekend when all this effort, all this creative energy, all this writing goes into the opening? Yeah.

[J.J. Abrams]

You know, you're a nervous wreck because the idea that it's actually out there, it's a weird thing. You know, in post production, it's like eight people.

[Host]

It's the editors.

[J.J. Abrams]

It's like the assistant editors. And they're all just like working together for months in this cave. And then in an instant, it's just out there and you're meeting strangers who are like, you know that scene where you're like, how do you know? Like, it's weird, the idea that it's suddenly not just the eight of you.

[Host]

You know, have you thought about not being in a cave? Because. And again, I don't. I don't know. I don't. I don't know Hollywood. And I don't know how things work out. A man of your. You could do this from, let's say, El Grotto. Not a cave.

[J.J. Abrams]

Next time I'm gonna try not editing.

[Host]

It in a cave. I think that would be the choicer. Do people feel that they can speak to you like that? Do they, do they, like people just come up to you on the street and be like, that one scene? Yeah, I didn't care for it like that kind of.

[J.J. Abrams]

Dad.

[Host]

No, no, I think what happened. You too, huh? Yeah. No, no, no.

[J.J. Abrams]

I think my dad liked this movie. No, no, I think, you know, it's hard sometimes because people just don't tell you the truth. And they'll of course say things, oh, hey, that was great. And you kind of see the shallowness and you're like, ah. You know, and so the key is finding people like, I don't know, my wife who will just, you know, just kick your ass if there's something that's not right. And just be totally honest with you. Because then when they love it and they say I love it, you know.

[Host]

It'S real and it means something.

[J.J. Abrams]

It means something.

[Host]

Can I have your wife? No, because she sounds like, no, no, My wife has to say, you trust their opinion because they have the ability to say to you, wow, that was. That was terrible.

[J.J. Abrams]

Thank you.

[Host]

How do you work? Do you work backwards? Do you know, you know, your movies and your television shows are so layered and there's so much going on do you start with a destination and work your way back?

[J.J. Abrams]

Or, you know, it all depends. I mean, obviously, TV is, you know, linear narrative drama. Shows are very different than doing a movie because it's, you know, beginning, middle, and end. In a movie, in a TV show, it's always a leap of faith, always. So you can have big ideas, and you go, I think I know where this is going. So, like, when Damon Lindelof and I wrote the pilot for Lost, we had a ton of big ideas, but there were fundamental characters, like, if anyone who knows the show, like, Ben Linus was not in the pilot. He wasn't in the first year. We had no idea. And Damon and Carlton, who ran Lost, Carlton cues, those guys came up with everything that followed. I went off and did a movie. Those guys were busting their ass on that show for six years. So my point is that you can have ideas, but it's like driving in the fog. The closer you get to the destination, the. The more detail you see and the more you realize, oh, you know, let's take this road that you couldn't have even seen back there. So it kind of evolves as you go.

[Host]

So in that fog, as you're pulling up closer, and then the fog clears and you go, oh, my God, Keri Russell cut her hair. You know, is that. But it is. You know, it's unbelievable, the creative synergy of that. It's very difficult to trust that collaborative process. It is to create something that complex. Hand it over and say, I trust that you will take this. Especially with science fiction, which has so many boundaries and rules of engagement that occur within the universes that you create.

[J.J. Abrams]

Well, I don't know what you're talking about, but the thing is that. Is that.

[Host]

Here's what I'm talking about. Can I tell you what I'm talking about? So yesterday on the show, I said that Jewish pubic hair is similar to the planet Endor. I walk back there, they're like, endor is a moon. You know, And I'm like, oh, I know. Did I say planet? I'm sorry I said planet. It's a moon. But that's my point is. No, no, no. You hand this and people are gonna pour over.

[J.J. Abrams]

It is. But in television, what's interesting about it is, is that people start to find connections that you didn't even know existed. So it's a weird thing. You'll start to have an idea and you start to do something. When we did Alias, it was unbelievable in that first season, the connections that people who Were watching the show, were making to things that we didn't really even know there were connections to. So we would decide sometimes to follow something, and someone would say, oh, yeah, I read that online. Someone wrote, what? And they would show me this thing where someone had already made a connection. So it's this weird thing where when you're doing a show, you have to listen to it as much as it listens to you, but the viewers are so smart, and some have a lot.

[Host]

Of time, and they will literally extrapolate.

[J.J. Abrams]

Based on where you are. Oh, they must be related, you know.

[Host]

And you're like, you know, so you're in the writers room.

[J.J. Abrams]

You're like, what if it's her father? And someone else is like, oh, you.

[Spike Lee]

Mean, like, you know, alias fan7 wrote damn it.

[Host]

And you just hope that they prove you to be brilliant as opposed to, you know, thank you, Alias fan. Exactly. That go through there. Well, it's so nice to see you and so nice to have you on the show. Thank you. Great work, as always. Please welcome Spike Lee.

[Ben Affleck]

Welcome back to the show.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Glad to be here.

[Host]

Is Brooklyn in the house?

[Auctioneer 2]

Great to see you again. And let me start by saying this. I have been in many a movie theater. I have watched many movies. Spike Lee. And I will tell you this. I have never experienced what I experienced watching this movie. I watched this movie in Connecticut this weekend, and the cinema was completely filled with old white people. The area I was in, it was Mystic Lake or something like that, Right? And the movie plays end to end, I think 2 hours and 8 minutes. And we sit there, and nobody gets up. Like, credits start rolling. Nobody moves. And then I stood up, and we're, like, in the middle. And then all the white people around me were just like, yeah, yeah, just. And then, like, even when we were walking out, people were just like, yeah, no, you first. You first. Like, everyone.

[Host]

It's.

[J.J. Abrams]

It's a.

[Auctioneer 2]

It's a powerful film. Are you feeling that in the responses you get from.

[Host]

I'm feeling it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I'm on Instagram, and I got several people telling me that they were, you know, not one or two black people in the theater. And then after the film, when the lights finally go up, the white people who loved the film, they were still hugging them. They were hugging the black folks in theaters, saying, I'm sorry. I apologize. I apologize. I never heard anything like that before in my life.

[Auctioneer 2]

It's a beautiful film. And just to those who don't know anything about the story, blackkklansman is inspired by the true Story of Ron Stallworth, right? He's an African American Detective in the 19.

[J.J. Abrams]

The first.

[Auctioneer 2]

In the 1970s.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The first, first police officer in Colorado Springs, right.

[Auctioneer 2]

And this is a black man who gets into a police department. And I mean, from the get go. Let's start with that part of the story. You lay out how difficult it is to play that, that, that, that role of being a black man and a police officer. And this is in the 1970s. But in some ways it feels like it hasn't changed.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Well, what we tried to do was, even though it takes place in the 70s, I still wanted to be contemporary. So there are many things that my co writer, Kevin Wilmot and I, we put in so people. It would click like, you know, right. This stuff is still happening today. And then it. I know, I'm not trying to spoil anything. Cause it's out already, right? But the ending that really hammers home where we are in this world today.

[Auctioneer 2]

It's a story that connects with you on so many levels. So Ron Stallworth is a black man who goes undercover as a Klan member, which is. I mean, the premise sounds ridiculous. If you don't tell me that it's based on a true story, I'd be like, this is the wildest thing from the imagination.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That's what I thought when Jordan Peele.

[Auctioneer 2]

Called me and he said, so he says to you, this is the story and six words.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Black man infiltrates Ku Klux Klan High concepts. You can't get more higher than that. So when Jordan Peele said, I said it sound automatically I thought of David Chappelle skit.

[Auctioneer 2]

Right, right, right.

[Ryan Reynolds]

But he said it's true. And then I read the book and it was a great opportunity for me. Even though it took place. Even though the story took place in 70, I still thought it was a great opportunity to comment on the world we live today. With Agent Orange in the White House.

[Auctioneer 2]

Let me ask you this.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I don't say his name.

[Host]

Let me, let me ask you.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Shout out to Busta Rhymes. That's where I got him.

[Host]

Buster.

[Auctioneer 2]

Let me, let me ask you this. Why do you think a story about the 1970s and the Klan and a black man in the police force comments on what's happening today in America?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Because I like to say, I think one of the mistakes people are making, I feel, is that they're saying this is just an American phenomenon, the rise of the right. This is, this is happening globally. And with this guy in the White House, he's made it okay for these supremacists. White supremacists to come out in the open. They're coming out from the rocks and he's legitimized them. And I wouldn't even call it dog whistles. He's like on a bullhorn.

[Auctioneer 2]

The film ends. And I won't spoil the ending of the film for you, but the film ends.

[Host]

Go ahead, beep.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It's been.

[Host]

Well, not.

[Auctioneer 2]

Not the ending. Cause I still want people to enjoy. There's a magical ending. It's a beautiful film. But what happens post the movie part is we get thrust into modern day. We go from the 1970s to 2017. We go to a Charlotte film.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We go to a year ago. What happened a year ago yesterday.

[Auctioneer 2]

Right. And again, I could feel an audience that was taken from a world of make believe, which was real, to like very much what you don't want to believe is real.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Right.

[Auctioneer 2]

When you are putting that on screen, when did you make that decision? Because this movie you had been creating. When did you make the decision to put current day Charlottesville into a 1970s film about the Klan?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Well, we didn't start shooting till the fall, so I was in my summer home in Marlon's vineyard and it hit me just like that, this has to be the ending. But I got Susan Breaux's number, the mother of Heather Hare who was murdered. And I got her blessing. So she gave me the permission to use her daughter's photo at the end. So that was a year ago yesterday. She was murdered and it was nothing but Trevor, it was nothing but American homegrown act of terrorism when that car drove down that crowded street and murdered her. That's a fact. And the President of the United States had an opportunity to tell the world that we are not for hate. And he did not denounce the Klan, the alt right, the kkk. He didn't do it. And a lot of times for me I found like, you know, he'll say something and then they pull him in the back and say, you gotta change it. Then he says, you know, he. But what I feel, whatever comes out his mouth the first time, that's the truth and that's what's in his heart.

[Auctioneer 2]

I just wanna say thank you for making another amazing film. Thank you so much for being on the show.

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[Host]

Please welcome back to the show Ben Affleck. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, young man.

[Ben Affleck]

Despite the whiz bang nature of that clip, there's a lot of excitement in the movie.

[Host]

It's a very suspenseful. Okay.

[Ben Affleck]

And I'm going to say this now, a bureaucracy movie.

[Host]

It's not a bureaucracy movie at all. I have a lot of actors on the program. Not a ton, a few, but enough.

[Ben Affleck]

Sure.

[Host]

And I oftentimes will lie to their faces, will say to them, well, this is a tremendous work you've done and excellent. The actor Hugh Grant comes to mind. I watched this film today. Phenomenal. Thank you. Phenomenal. Suspenseful, interesting, well researched, well acted, well direct. I mean, the energy of it, the kinetic energy. Do you know when you're in the middle of this.

[Ben Affleck]

I'm done.

[Host]

Thank you very much. No, no, no, no, no. This thing is. I was incredibly impressed.

[Ben Affleck]

Thank you very much.

[Host]

With the film.

[Ben Affleck]

I appreciate. And I think the actors only rarely lie to your face. You know what?

[Host]

Yes.

[Ben Affleck]

Had a great time.

[Host]

Thanks. Good to see you. I'll see you later. It's terrible.

[Ben Affleck]

Yes.

[Host]

Where did this. Did you spend time, you know, to do a film about Iran in 1979? Where did this story even come from? I've lived in this country a long time. I'd never heard of it.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, it's a true story. It happened obviously around the hostage era, during the larger hostage crisis. Six people got out. They escaped. They hid out with the Canadians. They were rescued by a CIA ex filtration officer who teamed up with some folks in Hollywood. They pretended to be a B science fiction movie crew to go back and get them out of Tehran. It's like a horrible movie if it wasn't true.

[Host]

You know what I mean?

[Ben Affleck]

But it's tense and it's funny and it's exciting. And I just got this. A guy read the. Named Josh Bierman, found the declassified material, Clinton declassified in 97. A guy named. A brilliant writer named Chris Terrio then wrote a script from it. They sent it to me and it seemed clear that even just with the most, you know, feeble execution, I could do something special with the movie.

[Host]

But this is. No, this is not feeble. You clearly had worked out. There was a scene in the movie. Is his shirt off? It's.

[J.J. Abrams]

It'S.

[Ben Affleck]

That's kind of a trademark.

[Host]

I don't know If I got to tell you, it was at the time I was thinking, it's a little gratuitous. I cut that. I wasn't complaining.

[Ben Affleck]

I showed that to some of the producers, and it was me getting out of the shower and toweling off.

[Host]

Putting your shirt on. And we got.

[Ben Affleck]

You know, I don't have any notes, except. Do you want to tell them or should I? You know, the shower scene.

[Host]

Maybe close it down a little bit, Darren?

[Ben Affleck]

A little bit, yeah.

[Host]

Did you meet the foreign service workers, the people that were in the embassy in Iran? Did you meet with them? Are they alive? I did.

[Ben Affleck]

There were five of the six, what we called the house guests who were there, who were the diplomats, who were the family members of Chambers. The guy who Alan Arkin played, obviously, my character, I worked with very closely. So we had this whole nucleus of people who worked with us and helped as keep it real. And also who landed. To me, the fact that this really is, in part a tribute to the dangers that our diplomats face, our foreign service people face, our clandestine service face, without any, you know, hope for recognition. I mean, we. Obviously, in Benghazi, you saw tragic results there, and that this is really something that, you know, in addition to your family, being away from your wife, being away from your kids, all this tough stuff. And so when I saw that stuff happening, I think the silver lining for me about this movie was, you know, we were paying honor to these folks.

[Host]

What's amazing to me, and it always has struck me, is no matter how the situation is in any country, how chaotic, how volatile, Canadians can travel freely. It really is. It's very. You know, this is honestly, like, there's guys in the streets with machine guns. They're blowing each other away. There's all kinds of things. There's chaos, people getting shot in the streets, and all of a sudden, a car pulls in with just two Canadian flags and just drives right through people like, go on, go on, go on. I didn't realize we're in the middle of a violent revolution. But you're Canadians. You're good people. Go on. It's remarkable.

[Ben Affleck]

They're a peaceful people, and they're a known peaceful people. And this was a big, you know, we worked together with them. They housed our folks, saved our lives. It was international cooperation. All the good things that we like to see for the sake of peace and hiding under the shelter of Canadians, which is, you know, that's us, that's America, hiding behind the Canadians.

[Host]

You know what? I think they will enjoy that interpretation very much so. From what I can understand. I'll tell you, this directing thing, though, I would continue to do this.

[Ben Affleck]

Kaputsky or.

[Host]

No, no, no, Kaputsky. I'm telling you, you're doing a nice. I'm beautiful.

[Ben Affleck]

Thank you very much.

[Host]

Just a beautiful.

[Ben Affleck]

I appreciate it.

[Host]

You're right, Argo. It's in the theaters on Friday. You gotta go see this thing. Ben Affleck, everybody. Please welcome Ava Duvern. Thank you for being here. Hey, first of all, congratulations.

[Ava DuVernay]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Host]

This is such a beautiful film.

[Friend 1]

Thank you.

[Host]

And so well done.

[Ava DuVernay]

I'm glad you think so.

[Host]

Oh, I. Absolutely. I was incredibly moved the. The lead performance, David Oyolowo.

[Ava DuVernay]

It's just yellow.

[Host]

Yellow O. Yellow O. O, Yellow O, Yeah.

[Ava DuVernay]

Yellow with two O's.

[Host]

Yellow with two O's. Remarkable.

[Ava DuVernay]

He's amazing. He's amazing. We gotta know the name because this guy is going places. You gotta learn it now.

[Host]

He's already gone places in this film. How does it feel to present a story like this now that racism is over? Is it to be able to present it as a part of our learned and shared history.

[Ava DuVernay]

That's right.

[Host]

That we no longer deal with. That's right.

[Auctioneer 2]

That's.

[Ava DuVernay]

Well, it's interesting because we opened the film with King accepting Nobel Prize at a time when he was at the height of his powers. And at that time, if you read a commentary and columnists at that time were talking about how we had gotten past racism because he had gotten the Nobel Prize. I mean, this post racial thing is not new. The idea that one achievement just kind of cleans the slate for everything else. So it's interesting. It's. And these events took place 50 years ago.

[Host]

I thought it was very interesting the way that you portrayed his pragmatism, because it humanizes him to a large extent in that he chose certain moments for their cinematic quality. At times, he had to be careful and cautious about what moments could represent his highest aspiration. And you show him suffering as he watches individuals be punished for that choice.

[Ava DuVernay]

Yeah, I mean, during the Selma marches were really the first time that people died under King's watch. I mean, you know, you have three people who lost their lives during the Selma campaigns. And so that was a great weight upon him, a great guilt that he was carrying, you know, nonviolent theory resulting in violent death. And so that's why this time in his history is just so ripe, so robust for exploration.

[Host]

You know, the big controversy is that Lyndon Baines Johnson is not enough of a hero in this. Does it surprise You. Because in the film, I mean, to be honest with you, when I read the controversy, I expected the film for him to be villainous. He is in no way that he's a politician.

[Ava DuVernay]

I know, I know.

[Host]

I'm a little baffled now.

[Ava DuVernay]

I'm doing the same things you are. I mean, literally, people cheer in the theater for LBJ at the end of it. I mean, I'm a little baffled as to what the challenges are, but everyone has a right to their opinion. I mean, the bottom line is we don't paint anyone as a saint in this. We don't paint anyone as a sinner.

[Host]

Tell me about your esteem for Dr. King after going through this process. Does it enhance it in any way? Were there sobering moments to it? Ultimately, what's your feeling through that?

[Ava DuVernay]

I think, you know, my feeling before was that I thought I knew him, and I was comfortable with what that was. It was very compartmentalized. A brave man, a courageous man, but not really a man, you know, really an idea. You know, he believed in non violence. He had a dream. He believed in peace. He died. Those are the broad strokes of what I think people understand about him. And he was a radical. He was a charismatic. He was a dynamic. He was a. He was a strategist. He was a tactician. He was a prankster. He was guilty. He had ego. He was like me. He was like you, and I gained so much.

[Friend 1]

You don't have an ego.

[Host]

No, I just. When you say, like Martin Luther King, he was like you. You're like, no, I don't. Yeah, but.

[Ava DuVernay]

But no, I mean, I would. I would argue.

[Host]

I'll say, like, yeah, I'll give you a prankster.

[Ava DuVernay]

I would argue that he is because he was just a brother from Atlanta who got swept up in history and was able to step into that greatness. But truly, he was a human being, and that's what we try to paint.

[Host]

I think that's so interesting, too, when you talk about, you know, when it starts out where he's stepping onto the stage of the Nobel ceremony and he's uncomfortable with the trappings of this newfound. And worried how it will make him appear. And you never sort of think of that aspect of him in the third person going, hey, I represent this. I can no longer be this. It's as though he came to see himself as a mythological feature, a figure as well.

[Ava DuVernay]

Right, right. Well, he knew what he meant to people on both sides of it. You know, for folks that were not steeped in the culture of people of color, he was a safety to him. Some of them saw him as safe, some of them saw him as dangerous. But not as dangerous as Malcolm X.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Right.

[Ava DuVernay]

You know, so he was the safety.

[Host]

Interesting how that's portrayed with Linda Baines Johnson as well.

[Ava DuVernay]

That's correct.

[Host]

You know, if we don't let Dr. King work mount conspiracy and what's our option?

[Ava DuVernay]

There's some interesting ideas in there and I would just invite people not to dismiss it based on the challenges that a few people who are supposed to be the custodians of one man are riling up. I think there's a lot of good stuff. Check it out.

[Host]

I hope they don't. It's moving and complex and the narrative, the Lyndon Baines Johnson is the least interesting. It's the people that did that March and Selma. It's about their courage and struggle. It's so beautiful. And I congratulate you to the high heavens for it. Really lovely work.

[Ava DuVernay]

Thank you so much.

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[Host]

Please welcome back to the show John Apatow. What's up, baby? Oh, I thought. I thought I saw, like, fluorescent green in there or something. I don't know what the hell was going on. How are you?

[Spike Lee]

I'm doing great. Great to be here.

[Host]

Very nice to have you here. Congratulations on the. This is the trilogy. This is.

[Spike Lee]

It is the trilogy of Sex, marriage and Death.

[Host]

This is Death. This is.

[Spike Lee]

Well, not really. It's a funny mortality play that stars funny people. I don't know why you're not in it, now that I think about it.

[Host]

Are you suggesting that I have the same neurotic obsessions?

[Spike Lee]

I think. Well, have you seen it?

[Host]

Wait, what? Knocked Up. It was hilarious. I love that. No, this new movie, 40 Year Old Virgin, was great.

[Spike Lee]

No, because we sent you an invite to see Funny People and they said that you were gonna go and you were really into it.

[Host]

I thought Knocked up was phenomenal. And what was the other one you did? 40 year old virgin was like that Steve Carell is going places. And I think that he. What's the name of this one? I did see it.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah. I think.

[Host]

Who's in it?

[Spike Lee]

Are you scared to see it?

[Host]

What?

[Spike Lee]

You might feel something in here, in.

[Host]

Your heart, you know, that wouldn't happen. Is this. Is this a film that lays open your deepest fears about mortality and these types of situations?

[Spike Lee]

Well, I thought, you know, talking about mortality through the eyes of comedians would be a way to talk about a serious subject with an enormous amount of jokes. Because the truth is, there's no to how much a comedian will talk about his penis. And people say there's so many jokes in the movie. And I'm like, in real life, it would be 300 times more penis jokes because they're endlessly funny, I think. In your offices, how many penis jokes per day?

[Host]

There's quite a few penis jokes in our office. I have to say that oftentimes some of them can be incredibly erudite.

[Spike Lee]

Yes.

[Host]

And some of them actually can just be drawings on note cards. So. But I do admit there is quite a lot of that. Yeah. Not a lot of death talk, though. So I think it's a good conduit. It is, it is.

[Spike Lee]

And you know, it's about a young comedian played by Seth Rogen, and he plays this guy, Ira Wright.

[Host]

Oh, someone recognized that name. One guy. Wait, what? Who?

[Spike Lee]

And he plays Ira Wright. And Ira Wright, his real name is Ira Weiner.

[Host]

What's he running away from?

[Spike Lee]

Apparently, there are some people who have Jewish names and they change them so they don't sound Jewish.

[Host]

Wow, that's ridiculous. Whoever does something like that should stand up because the only thing that matters in this world is that what you do personally is okayed by other people of your same ethnic persuasion.

[Spike Lee]

I think that you think that you're passing for non Jew and you're not.

[Host]

What do you think? People think I'm one of you? Well, wait till they hear about this at the club. I mean, Marge is going to have a reel in her gin gimlet.

[Spike Lee]

You know, I'm such a big fan of the show, and something weird happened the other night, and I thought I would admit it on the show because it just seemed interesting to me.

[Host]

Please.

[Spike Lee]

Which is I was watching William Crystal and Bill.

[J.J. Abrams]

Crystal.

[Spike Lee]

Bill Kristol. I call him William, but he's the editor of the Weekly Standard. And I was home and I thought, you know, it's late and I'm gonna masturbate.

[Host]

And I thought to the interview.

[Spike Lee]

Well, here's the thing. What I thought was, I wonder if I could pull it off while the interview was going on with Bill Kristol.

[Host]

And would you turn the sound down or would you leave it on?

[Spike Lee]

No, I left the sound up. And I thought you had some great. You had some really funny jokes.

[Host]

Thank you. And did you look at the screen? Let me ask you a question.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah.

[Host]

And this is important.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah.

[Host]

Who did you focus on?

[Spike Lee]

I have to admit, I looked into Bill's cold, dead eyes.

[Host]

So that's what you get off on. How long was the. It was kind of a long interview, so not that impressive a feat. It'd be one thing if, in a shorter interview, you could pull it off. I mean, eight minutes. I could pull it off three times. I mean, for God's sakes, it gave.

[Spike Lee]

Me four minutes to cuddle with Bill afterwards. Now, I don't know if you guys heard about this, but I became. I was this close this week to being on the COVID of Time magazine.

[Host]

Really?

[Spike Lee]

Yes.

[Host]

And what is that?

[Spike Lee]

Well, basically, they said, if there's a big story, you're gonna get bumped, but for entertainment, we think you're gonna make it. And then at the last second, it changed to something else. I'd like to show you the COVID Because they let me see what it was. There it is, right there. And that is not fake. And look how handsome I look.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

And you can't see my bald head. You can't see that.

[Host]

It looks like you went down to the Jersey Shore and won that on the boardwalk.

[Spike Lee]

Exactly.

[Auctioneer 1]

And that is it.

[Spike Lee]

And it looks bad, but that is it. And then they switched it. I just want you to know that they thought this was more important than me. How much publicity does this guy need is what I want to know. He doesn't have a movie coming out at this point.

[Host]

Can I tell you something? Time magazine is like, O Magazine. Like, Obama has to be on the COVID It's like. It is like Oprah magazine. I think he's been on, like, 30 times this year.

[Spike Lee]

Well, it was a heartbreaker for me.

[Host]

Well, let me tell you something. You're on the COVID of your heart Mensch magazine.

[Spike Lee]

Yes.

[Host]

Thank you. You're a good man.

[Auctioneer 2]

Thank you, sir.

[Host]

Funny People. It's in the theaters on Friday. John Apatow.

[Auctioneer 2]

Please welcome Ryan Coogler.

[Host]

Thank you very much.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Thank you so much.

[Auctioneer 2]

This is great for so many people to see the face behind the films. Congratulations, by the way.

[Auctioneer 1]

Oh, thanks.

[Auctioneer 2]

Creed is amazing.

[Auctioneer 1]

Thank you so much.

[Host]

It really is.

[Auctioneer 1]

No, it really is.

[Auctioneer 2]

I'd like to take a moment and go back on this. First of all, let's. Let's start with the fact that you are just 29 years old. Yeah, 29 years old. And already there's Oscar talk around the film.

[Host]

Mm.

[Auctioneer 2]

Is that. Is that. Does that make you nervous?

[Ben Affleck]

Does that.

[Auctioneer 2]

Or is that just a. Is that a humbling experience? What's that like for you?

[Auctioneer 1]

It's humbling, man. Like, with filmmaking, it's an art form that you don't do on your own. You know, I saw several collaborators come and go. I wrote the script with a buddy of mine, Aaron Covington. I got to work with one of my best friends, Michael B. Jordan, and it really feels like it's just a blessing to be able to do this job. You know what I mean? So to have people talk about your movies at the end of it for awards and things like that, it's just icing on the cake, to be honest.

[Auctioneer 2]

My barber literally said to me, he was cutting my hand. He's like, yo, man, you seen Creed? You seen Creed? And I was like, no. He's like, yo, that's the black Rocky, man. He's like, that's black Rocky for this generation. Is that what you were setting out to do? When you wrote to me, because, you know, I read a fascinating story. You wrote this film. You were inspired by your father?

[Auctioneer 1]

Yeah, absolutely. My dad was a huge Rocky fan. Whenever you put these Rocky movies on, he would cry. You know what I'm saying? So I know these movies had a special, you know, special power over my dad. And I came to like him because my dad liked him. You know, I wanted to be just like him. And then when I finished up film school, my dad got sick, you know, and he started to develop a neuromuscular condition. When he was losing his skeletal muscles, he basically was becoming weaker.

[Host]

Right.

[Auctioneer 1]

You know, and. And had to help him from the car to the house sometimes. And all of a sudden, this dude who was always so strong became weak. And it really did a number on my psyche, you know? But then I came up with this idea that maybe if his hero went through something similar, you know, and it was a young man who formed a relationship with him, you know, maybe it could be something that my dad would be into. Maybe it'll cheer him up. Maybe it'll motivate him to fight through it.

[Auctioneer 2]

That's beautiful, man. And how does. How does a young black man from a rough neighborhood, like you said, go into making films? I mean, you. You said your dad was an ex football player.

[Host]

You.

[Auctioneer 2]

You were going to get into football.

[Auctioneer 1]

Yeah.

[Auctioneer 2]

What changed?

[Auctioneer 1]

Um, I mean, school. And I always had great teachers. And then I. And I got a football scholarship to a school called St. Mary's College. And I had a teacher there, you know, during my first year of school, read something that I wrote and called me into her office and. And basically suggested that I get into writing. Writing movies. Cause my writing was real visual.

[Host]

Wait.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah.

[Auctioneer 2]

No, no, I'm sorry. Just the image for me. Cause I. I watch a lot of movies. Just the image that a football player gets called in and the teacher goes, you need to write more.

[Host]

Yeah, you.

[Auctioneer 2]

You should quit football and you should write more.

[Host]

That's how.

[Ben Affleck]

So you.

[Host]

You.

[Auctioneer 2]

You went straight into that. You didn't.

[Auctioneer 1]

I laughed at her a bit in the class. And, you know, while we were sitting in the office, I thought she was crazy at first. You know, I thought I was in trouble when she called me into her office.

[Host]

Yeah, I would think that, too. That's what I would think.

[Auctioneer 1]

Yeah. I never forget she called and she was like, hey, you know, she called me my dorm room. I was in the dorm room with my friends. She was like, hey, are you busy right now? And I'm like, you know, I couldn't lie. Cause I'm in the dorm room, you know. So I was like.

[Auctioneer 2]

I said, like, there's no lies in dorm rooms.

[Host]

I couldn't lie. Cause I was in the dorm room.

[Auctioneer 1]

Nah. But she knew where I was, you know what I mean? She could like, walk down from her office and knock on the door if she wanted to. So she said, I want you to come by. Come by my office hours right now. So I had to kick all my partners out the room. Like, man, I gotta go. You know, maybe the teacher, like, I can't remember what I wrote about to be the story was actually about my dad. Crazy enough, you know, And I thought maybe. Cause it was something crazy that happened. I thought maybe she was like, hey, you know, you need to see a psychiatrist.

[Spike Lee]

What you writing about?

[Auctioneer 1]

Or something, you know, or like, or like, you know, or I'm gonna get to her office. It's gonna be like the dean of school, like the police there waiting for me, like, hey, man, you know, true salt, you know, you outta here. But, you know, I went in there, her name was Rosemary Graham and it was just her, you know, and she sat me down and asked what I wanted to be when I grew up, you know, And I had no idea really at the time. And, you know, she suggested that I get into, you know, writing screenplays, doing amazing things.

[Auctioneer 2]

Thank you so much.

[Auctioneer 1]

I appreciate it.

[Auctioneer 2]

Creed is amazing. Fruitvale's amazing. You're amazing, my friend. Thank you so much.

[Carvana Customer]

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[Ava DuVernay]

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[Host]

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[J.J. Abrams]

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[Host]

It's on prime.

[Ben Affleck]

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[Auctioneer 2]

Please welcome Catherine Bigelow. Welcome to the Daily Show.

[Friend 1]

Thank you.

[Auctioneer 2]

I am such a huge fan of your work. You have directed some of the most gripping films we have had the pleasure of experiencing. You were awarded an Academy Award for your directing. Looking at this film, Detroit, would you say that this was one of the more difficult films that you have worked on?

[Friend 1]

I would definitely say yes. Emotionally, it was very, very difficult, not only for the cast, but the crew. I mean, everybody, everybody was. You could not be immune to the emotionality of this piece. And I would, oftentimes I'd say, cut. I'd go out to the porch. Whenever you see it, you'll know that this all takes place in this one house and there's this porch. And I'd find the cast, you know, sometimes with their head buried in their hands, you know, and just. I tried to just move it along as quickly as I could because it's a very tragic story.

[Auctioneer 2]

Why did you choose to tell this story about what was happening in Detroit?

[Friend 1]

Well, I think the thinking going in was the canvas is huge. I mean, you're looking at a rebellion that took place over five days in 1967, and that was only one of almost 300 in the year of 1967. So there was a tremendous amount of social unrest, understandably. And so you have this beginning of. It starts with the riot, and then it begins to telescope down to several characters, and then it telescopes down even further to this one character. So it's an opportunity for me to humanize what I think is somewhat unthinkable, which is the degree of police brutality and racial injustice that took place in those few hours in the Algiers motel.

[Auctioneer 2]

Is it ever strange for you, telling a story that is set in a time many decades ago and yet it still seems timely. It still seems like the story could have been of a few days ago?

[Friend 1]

Well, that was exactly my entry point when it was first presented to me by Mark Bohl, the writer that I work with. Hurt Locker and Zero Dark Thirty. I was just around the time of Ferguson, Missouri, and I was thinking, this sounds like today. I mean, this. This is 50 years ago, yet it's today. And if it's today, could it be tomorrow? And so my hope was that the film could possibly be part of a larger conversation and encourage a conversation about racial injustice in this country. And I think that. Or perhaps other stories coming forward, you know, I think it's a really meaningful conversation for this country to have at this point.

[Auctioneer 2]

What you cannot escape, though, when you're tackling any subject like, is because you're dealing with police brutality, because you are dealing with racial injustice, there is an element of people always questioning people, asking the whys. And I know one of the toughest whys that came to you was, why are you telling the story? You are a white woman telling a story of black people in Detroit. Why would you do that?

[Friend 1]

Well, I think that. I mean, I certainly had to do some soul searching in order to answer that and then go forward with it. But I found that story so moving, and I felt that it was an important story to tell and so compelling that. And I had the opportunity to tell it. So I thought perhaps that mitigated the negative aspects of the fact. You know, I thought, am I the right person to tell this story? Absolutely not. But does the story need telling? Yes. And that's what was my motivation.

[Auctioneer 2]

When you worked on the story as well, I noticed that you worked with some key figures within the African American community, people who could lend credence to the story, make it factually correct. It was based specifically on the Algiers motel incident. Um, why that incident in particular? And why did you feel it was so important to get prominent African Americans who were steeped in history involved in the project?

[Friend 1]

Well, we were very lucky to have people like Michael Dyson and. And Henry Louis Gates help us with this project. And what was so important was to base it on actual events. You know, that the research, it was extremely well researched, and it was very important that we get it right, you know, that it be accurate, that it be authentic, and that we were true to the events that took place. We also had eyewitness accounts.

[Auctioneer 2]

Right. Now, when you're a director, we understand there's the commercial aspect. You're trying to make money from the film. It is a business. At the same time, you're trying to tell stories, you're trying to move people. If there was one thing you would hope would move after people watch this movie, what would you hope that thing would be?

[Friend 1]

Well, I would hope that it encourages a conversation, you know, invites a conversation about the racial injustice in this country. I mean, for instance, you're from South Africa, and there's a meaningful conversation about truth and reconciliation. But here I feel like there's just silence and, you know, young African American men are afraid to drive in their own car. And, you know, there's just. Who knows what will happen? And I just think this is, you know, there's a situation out there that has, in my humble. I'm just a filmmaker, but in my humble opinion, needs to be addressed. And I hope, I hope this can certainly encourage that to happen. I mean, I. We had a screening the other night in Capitol Hill hosted by Representative John Conyers.

[Host]

Oh, wow.

[Friend 1]

And he has a bill to end racial profiling. And he's, you know, he's encouraging people to see the movie and gender conversation.

[Auctioneer 2]

You call yourself a humble filmmaker, but we think you're exceptional. Thank you so much for being on the show.

[Host]

Explore more shows from the Daily show.

[Auctioneer 2]

Podcast universe by searching the Daily Show.

[Host]

Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the.

[Auctioneer 2]

Daily Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount.

[J.J. Abrams]

Plus.

[Spike Lee]

This has been a Comedy Central podcast.