TDS Time Machine | Interviews with Obama

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Show: Ears Edition – "TDS Time Machine | Interviews with Obama"

Episode Information

• Title: TDS Time Machine | Interviews with Obama
• Host: Jon Stewart, Comedy Central
• Guest: Senator Barack Obama
• Release Date: August 4, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition, host Jon Stewart engages in an in-depth conversation with Senator Barack Obama, delving into pivotal political topics, leadership philosophies, and reflections on his tenure. The discussion offers listeners a nuanced perspective on contemporary political dynamics, Obama's personal experiences, and his vision for the future.

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Political Climate and Democratic Momentum

The conversation begins with Stewart inquiring about the recent uptick in Democratic momentum. Obama responds with a blend of optimism and realism:

“I think the Democrats are feeling a little frisky right now. No doubt about it.”
[03:28]

Obama attributes this surge to the Democratic Party questioning Republican governance skills, highlighting increased media scrutiny as a significant factor:

“The mainstream media is more critical and paying more attention to what's happening, and that gives it more traction than we had before.”
[04:13]

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Iraq Policy and Military Withdrawal

Stewart probes Obama's stance on Iraq policy, seeking clarity on his strategies for troop withdrawal. Obama acknowledges the complexity of the situation:

“Iraq is sort of a situation where you've got a guy who drove the bus into the ditch... how fast can we get our troops home without causing all out chaos in Iraq?”
[05:08]

He emphasizes the necessity of setting specific benchmarks, such as the December 15th parliamentary elections, to ensure a responsible and phased military withdrawal:

“If the Iraqis are serious about keeping the country together, then we should be able to start phasing out our troops by next year.”
[05:38]

---

Senate Dynamics and Collaboration

Addressing the Senate environment, Obama discusses the challenges of legislative paralysis and the importance of camaraderie among senators:

“I think there are a couple of guys where you do sort of think, how did you get here?”
[06:26]

He underscores the value of likable qualities and genuine efforts to represent constituencies despite ideological differences:

“Most of the folks really are trying to represent their constituencies as best as they know.”
[06:55]

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Campaign Narratives and Media Influence

Stewart challenges Obama on prevailing media narratives that categorize candidates in oversimplified terms. Obama responds by highlighting the campaign's efforts to move beyond these stereotypes:

“We try to break down these narratives and get to the heart of the question. So when people talk about experience, what they really want to know is, does he have good judgment?”
[12:50]

He criticizes the media's focus on sensationalism over substantive policy discussions:

“Whatever sells papers.”
[12:37]

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Leadership Philosophy and Democratic Values

A significant portion of the interview explores Obama's leadership philosophy. He contrasts democratic, inclusive leadership with authoritarian models, advocating for collective action and empowerment:

“The thing they all had in common... the belief that they couldn't do it by themselves and that they had to in some ways unlock the potential and power of other people.”
[37:22]

Obama further emphasizes the importance of democratic values on the global stage:

“The principles that America articulated at its best about rule of law, human rights, freedom of speech, democracy... are not exclusively American.”
[39:46]

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Reflections on Presidency and Legacy

In discussing his transition from office, Obama reflects candidly on the challenges and ethical dilemmas faced during his presidency, particularly concerning military actions:

“War is madness. Kinetic action of any sort, military action of any sort, that results in death and destruction... is not the thing I would want humanity to do.”
[43:11]

He acknowledges the complexities of legacy, striving to balance accomplishments with recognition of ongoing challenges:

“What we've done in terms of making sure that before we even passed health care, 4 million kids got health insurance... we have done an awful lot that we talked about during the campaign and we're going to do more in the years to come.”
[25:53]

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Inspiring Future Leadership

Towards the end of the interview, Obama discusses his efforts through the Obama Foundation to inspire and cultivate the next generation of leaders. He highlights the importance of inclusive and democratic leadership:

“There are a lot of good people doing good work, and some of them actually rise to significant positions of power. And in that sense, democracy can work the way it's supposed to if we have a vigilant citizenry.”
[37:22]

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Conclusion

Jon Stewart's interview with Senator Barack Obama provides a deep dive into the intricacies of political strategy, leadership, and the enduring impact of democratic values. Obama's thoughtful reflections and forward-looking insights offer listeners a comprehensive understanding of the current political landscape and the aspirations for future governance.

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Notable Quotes:

• “I think the Democrats are feeling a little frisky right now. No doubt about it.” — Barack Obama [03:28]
• “War is madness. Kinetic action of any sort, military action of any sort, that results in death and destruction... is not the thing I would want humanity to do.” — Barack Obama [43:11]
• “The principles that America articulated at its best... are not exclusively American.” — Barack Obama [39:46]

---

This episode serves as an essential listen for those seeking to understand the intersection of politics, leadership, and societal change through the lens of one of America's most influential figures.

Transcript

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[Trevor Noah]

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[Comedy Central Announcer]

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[Comedy Central Announcer]

You're listening to Comedy Central.

[Jon Stewart]

My guest tonight, a Democratic senator representing the great state of Illinois. His book is Dreams from My A Story of Race and Inheritance. Joining us via satellite from Washington, D.C. please welcome Senator Barack Obama to the program. Senator, thanks for joining us. How are you, sir? Hey, John. All right, kids, settle down. How are you, sir?

[Barack Obama]

I am doing great.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

How are you?

[Jon Stewart]

Very well, sir. Thank you so much for joining us. I know that you had to stay in Washington to vote on a particular defense bill, is that correct?

[Barack Obama]

Well, you know, it. We thought it was a defense bill. It turned out that it was a health insurance bill. My staff figured I should go and be on the Jon Stewart show anyway, but I thought maybe health care for the American people was a little more important.

[Jon Stewart]

Senator, do you typically not find out what you're voting on until you get there that day?

[Barack Obama]

That is normally how we organize ourselves around here. I don't know if you can tell by the results.

[Jon Stewart]

Sometimes. Let me ask you a question. Or is that a thing they do only to freshmen senators? Is there a hazing process? Do you have to carry the gavels in and out? Is there anything that goes on?

[Barack Obama]

They make me sharpen pencils and sometimes I have to stand between Harry Reid and Bill Frist.

[Jon Stewart]

That can be a difficult job. Speaking of which, the Democrats have suddenly, in the past, let's say, week, seem to have gained a bit of a voice and a bit of traction. Are you finding that as well for yourselves down there? Is there a palpable feeling?

[Barack Obama]

I think the Democrats are feeling a little frisky right now. No doubt about it.

[Jon Stewart]

Frisky in terms of politically speaking, is it because you feel like now you've got a strategy or that these guys are imploding so viciously that if you just stand back and get out of the way, people are going to have to vote for the other party? Which is which?

[Barack Obama]

Look, there is no doubt that George Bush has had a tough couple of weeks. We don't underestimate their political skills. I think what we do is question their governing skills.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

And some of the issues that we've.

[Barack Obama]

Been talking about on Iraq, on health care, on public infrastructure, we've been talking about for a while. I do think that part of what's happening is the mainstream media is more critical and paying more attention to what's happening, and that gives it more traction than we had before.

[Jon Stewart]

See, I don't have a television, so I'm not sure, I'm not sure what's getting out there into the ether. But I always wonder, you know, we've had a few Democrats on the show, Democratic senators, a couple of governors, and I always say, so what specifically would you guys do? And then they always say something like, we would honor the people. You know, we would help, we would help working families. Is there something more specific that you have in mind? If Barack Obama was in charge of the Iraq policy, what would we be doing right now?

[Barack Obama]

Well, you know, Iraq is sort of a situation where you've got a guy who drove the bus into the ditch. You know, you obviously have to get the bus out of the ditch and that's not easy to do, although you probably should fire the driver.

[Jon Stewart]

But so.

[Barack Obama]

Seriously, this is a huge problem. I was opposed to the war even before I was in the Senate. Now the question is, how fast can we get our troops home without causing all out chaos in Iraq? And I think that you're looking at December 15th as the date for the next parliamentary elections. That has to be a benchmark where we say to ourselves, we're not going to have a military solution to this we can't replace the revolutionary Guard of Saddam Hussein in holding this country together. If the Iraqis are serious about keeping the country together, then we should be able to start phasing out our troops by next year. And we've got to have specific benchmarks to do that.

[Jon Stewart]

Let me ask you a question, Senator. Who's the worst senator in your mind? Like, let's say you're looking around and let's say some guy comes in and you're like, oh, crap, it's that guy. That guy's terrible. Is there somebody that you just think, man, that guy, he can't even read nothing.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Yo, they're all.

[Barack Obama]

They all have their qualities. I think there are a couple guys where you do sort of think, how did you get here?

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Exactly.

[Jon Stewart]

But mostly you feel like you can work with these guys.

[Barack Obama]

You know, the truth is that part of the criteria for getting elected is that you've got to have some likable quality.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

You've been vetted of some sort.

[Barack Obama]

And most of the folks really are trying to represent their constituencies as best as they know.

[Jon Stewart]

How do you feel? Pressure, Senator? You know, you come in with an awful lot of hopes and dreams on your shoulder. A lot of people look at you as kind of the new vanguard. Do you feel that pressure or are you just doing your job, doing your thing?

[Barack Obama]

Well, you know, I don't feel a lot of pressure. I think that if I speak honestly, if I try to work hard and do the best possible job that I can, then I think things will work out pretty well. It is true. I worry about the hype. The only person more overhyped than me is you.

[Jon Stewart]

Well done, sir. Well done. That's about the best answer I think I've ever heard. Thank you so much for joining us. Please come and see us in person when you're in New York. We'd love to have you here.

[Barack Obama]

I would look forward to it. I'm a huge fan and I've gotten cool points both with my wife who loves your show, and also with my 4 year old who remembers you from Elmo Palooza.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, thank you. I thought you were gonna say from your 4 year old who also watches the show, because that's really the age group that we're aiming at here. His book is Dreams from My Father. It's on the bookshelves now. Senator, thanks for joining us. Senator Barack OB My guest tonight, a Democratic senator from Illinois. He is also running for president. Please welcome back to the show Senator Barack Obama. Senator, thank you. Thank you. You rock.

[Barack Obama]

Barack, you Rock.

[Jon Stewart]

Barack. Senator, thanks for joining us.

[Barack Obama]

John, it is good to be here.

[Jon Stewart]

You. The effect that you have on a crowd, it is, it's unusual for a politician. You do have. There is a certain inspirational quality to you. My question is, is that really something America is going to go for?

[Barack Obama]

Well, we're going to find out. We're going to find out. We've been just having a wonderful time traveling all across the country and we've been getting these enormous crowds. 20,000 people in Atlanta, 20,000 people in Austin, Texas, 10,000 people in Iowa City. And we're especially seeing a lot of young people. And that is one of the things that's most exciting about the campaign is folks who haven't seen a lot of inspiration in politics most of their lives suddenly taking this seriously. Yeah.

[Jon Stewart]

And coming out to see it. And do you have, if I may, kegs, because that also, that also can draw them.

[Barack Obama]

We don't like to divulge our secrets.

[Jon Stewart]

I think that's wise. You've been taking. This is amazing. I just pulled some quick clips from the paper because the process that we have in which we elect our officials is so insane. I was on the web yesterday. Your wife, I guess, had been giving a speech in Iowa in which she mentioned that she feels that she wanted to take care of her own household. She felt like you got to be able to take care of your own house.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Right.

[Jon Stewart]

To really feel like you can take care of the White House. I turned on Drudge. It said, Obama's wife slams Hillary. You mentioned something about going after al Qaeda in Pakistan. This says Obama stumbles and bumbles on Al Qaeda question. Bam. Bombs himself in new gaffe. This is my favorite angry Obama. The pothead is not how we remember him. Has the insanity of this process sunk in on you? Yet.

[Barack Obama]

Every day it reveals itself in new ways. And I think that's part of what people are looking to our campaign to see is just some normalcy and some common sense. I was mentioning that we were preparing for the debate and we had an 8 o' clock in the morning debate in Iowa.

[Jon Stewart]

This was like the 27th debate for real.

[Barack Obama]

And you know, it's always a shock to the system. And when Sunday morning you wake up and you're face to face with Mike Gravel. So we're preparing and one of my staff said the thing you got to understand is this isn't on the level. And I think that really strikes to what people are frustrated with in politics is that so much of what we talk about, so much of what we Say it's not true. People know it's not true. All the insiders understand that we're just game playing. And in the meantime, you've got these hugely serious problems which are true.

[Jon Stewart]

Do you feel like you're stuck in a narrative now? And the narrative is Hillary Clinton is unlikable but knows what she's doing. Obama is inexperienced but brings change. And that narrative, no matter what you do, because it's easily categorized, the media or everyone else will just slip whatever happens into those two narratives.

[Barack Obama]

That's what's happening right now. They will probably find something new later to talk about.

[Jon Stewart]

Could you tell us what that will be?

[Comedy Central Announcer]

We don't know yet.

[Barack Obama]

Whatever sells papers.

[Jon Stewart]

Whatever sells papers.

[Barack Obama]

Whatever sells papers.

[Jon Stewart]

Does your campaign. Do you find yourself falling into promoting those narratives as well? Is it hard as a campaigner to not see yourself then as a product as well?

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Well, what happened?

[Barack Obama]

Let's take the example of experience. We try to remind people nobody had a longer resume than Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, and that hasn't worked out so well. So what we try to do is break down these narratives and get to the heart of the question. So when people talk about experience, what they really want to know is, does he have good judgment? And you hope that if somebody has more experience, it gives them better judgment. Of course, everybody knows a lot of 50 and 60, 70 year olds that don't have good judgment because they keep on making the same mistakes over and over again. And so what we want to try to do is to start talking about judgment. How do we actually get stuff done? What's common sense and what's been interesting, for example, on not using nuclear weapons to bomb an Al Qaeda camp, for example, initially everybody said, oh, that's a gaffe. And then suddenly reporters started talking to military experts who said, why would you even consider using nuclear weapons? And some of the press scratch their head and say, hmm. And you notice that it turns it around. It turns it around. And that's how we continually have to respond, is to just push against the conventional wisdom, push against the habits of thought. It's the same way that we got into Iraq was nobody is willing to ask tough questions. And there's.

[Jon Stewart]

And challenge conventional wisdom.

[Barack Obama]

And challenge conventional wisdom. That's what we've got to do.

[Jon Stewart]

Well, that's what's great about it is the way they've responded is we agree with Barack on those things. We just didn't know you were allowed to say it publicly. And that's been the best part about it. We'll take a commercial break. We'll be right back with Senator Barack Obama. Welcome back. We're here with Senator Barack Obama with the experiencing thing. Have you thought about running a smaller country first?

[Barack Obama]

No. You know what I did think about, though, was invading a smaller country, as.

[Jon Stewart]

You know, right way to get some popularity.

[Barack Obama]

Grenada or.

[Jon Stewart]

Well, that's a gaff. I don't know how that's going to show up in the headlines tomorrow. That's a big one. Now, listen, what do you think about. You definitely also have little bit of that Hollywood flair. You're going to start drawing the celebrities. Oprah is going to throw you as a fundraiser.

[Barack Obama]

Oprah wins.

[Jon Stewart]

The why would that doesn't seem good. And I'll tell you why. I still remember Howard Dean in Iowa with Martin Sheen introducing him quoting an Indian poet to a caucus group of literally like AFL CIO workers and just seeing their faces like this. Huh? What is he talking about?

[Barack Obama]

Well, you know, you don't use folks in that way. Look, I think having Oprah's support is wonderful. I think having celebrities want to do stuff for you. But the truth is in Iowa, in New Hampshire, people just want to talk to you. They want to lift the hood, they want to kick the tires. They want to look you in the eye. They want to get a sense are you telling the truth? And there's nobody that can do that job other than you.

[Jon Stewart]

And Iowa can be won on the ground.

[Barack Obama]

Iowa can be won on the ground. And one of the things that we've been so excited about is just seeing the volunteer energy. And you get these young people from Iowa who are volunteering coming into the office and people, they're impressed with that. And that's part of the message we're trying to send in the campaign, is that the only way we can break out of the gridlock and overcome the special interests and the lobbyists is if people get involved and they get engaged and we break out of this sort of red state, blue state, half the country is divided. There's nothing we can do about it. You know, we've just got to battle it out.

[Jon Stewart]

Can a senator do it? You know, so often now it's the governors. Is there something about because the Senate, it's very hard to run on your record in the Senate because the Senate is so paralyzed and nuanced.

[Barack Obama]

Well, it's paralyzed and it's designed for you to take bad votes.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Right.

[Barack Obama]

And a governor is more likely to be able to set the terms of the debate. They can give a speech. They Say, this is my initiative, this is my proposal. I won't sign it unless I agree with it. With Senators, you end up having to actually vote on stuff that has no relevance whatsoever but can be used later on to attack you.

[Jon Stewart]

Where is the whole meme that Hillary Clinton is very experienced? She's been in the Senate a few years longer than you, and then she was the First Lady. Is that, are they counting that? Is that, does that go on the resume? Because I'm not sure. I mean, if that's. They keep saying she's the experienced candidate and I keep wondering. She's been in the Senate a couple of years, but I don't think first lady counts, does it? Or. Or does her husband's resume somehow under hers?

[Barack Obama]

I think that first of all, she's a very capable senator. She's very smart. I think people rightly give her credit for having been a participant in the Clinton administration and that she was doing some heavy lifting on issues. But I do think that increasingly what Americans are looking for is not Washington experience. But do you have life experience that is going to lead you to make good decisions? And are you in touch with what's happening on the ground?

[Jon Stewart]

Would you take any Democrat in the field over any Republican? Is there a Republican in the field you admire that you think would do a nice job?

[Barack Obama]

You know, I think some of these folks are decent people. I mean, Mike Huckabee.

[Jon Stewart]

No, no, no. Worst backhanded compliment ever.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

No, no, no, no. I think there are guys like Huckabee.

[Barack Obama]

Who I think are sincere and decent.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

But, you know, if you look at.

[Barack Obama]

How they were trying to outbid each other on Guantanamo, we're going to detain even more people and alienate even more folks outside our borders. That kind of stuff, I think is not serving the Republican Party well and is not going to serve the country well.

[Jon Stewart]

Well, here's to staying above the fray and not having the red blue divide anymore. And we hope you come back and see us again soon.

[Barack Obama]

It is a thrill. I love this show.

[Jon Stewart]

Thank you very much.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Appreciate it.

[Trevor Noah]

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[Jon Stewart]

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[Trevor Noah]

Training and experience in careers like computer science, aviation and medicine, plus education and sign on bonuses.

[Barack Obama]

Parents help your grads start their career.

[Trevor Noah]

[e-mail].

[Jon Stewart]

Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming the President of the United States, Barack Obama. Thank you, thank you. Please have a free. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I. That's all the time we Have. Thank you for. Thank you for joining us.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

This is a nice set.

[Jon Stewart]

Thank you very much.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

It reminds me of the convention.

[Jon Stewart]

We actually bought it. It was in a warehouse and we bought it. We had it chiseled. Let me give you mug Force one. This is yours.

[Barack Obama]

Oh, nice.

[Jon Stewart]

There's no water in it. Let me get some water for you. Thank you. I'll get that on the thing there. Thank you so much for coming by. There you go. All right. Does that happen to you wherever you go? Is that just a wild. When you. Because when you guys go to work, do people typically applaud or. It's a nice feeling.

[Barack Obama]

It was a wonderful welcome. It does not happen. For example, when I go to the Republican caucus meeting, I see slightly different.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah. So here you are. I am. You're two years in to your administration. And the question that arises in my mind, are we the people we were waiting for or does it turn out those people are still out there and we don't have their number? How are you feeling about.

[Barack Obama]

About that? Well, you know, I'm feeling great about where the American people are, considering what we've gone through. I mean, we've gone through the two toughest years of any time since the Great Depression. And in light of that, the fact that people have been resilient, that folks are still out there working and opening businesses and working in the community, looking after their families, taking care of their responsibilities, that's encouraging. So there's still a lot of good stuff happening, but people are frustrated. A lot of folks are hurting out there still. And in that environment, I think that they're hoping that we can do a little bit better here in Washington than we've been doing.

[Jon Stewart]

Now. Do you. Is that. Do you feel that as well? Because it is. You know, you're coming from a place. You ran on very high rhetoric, Hope and change. And the Democrats this year seem to be running on please, baby, one more chance. Now, how did we go in two years from hope and change? We are the people we've been looking for to. You're not going to give them the keys, are you? You know, is it. Are you disappointed in how it's gone? Are you surprised that other people, even your base, can be disappointed, or do you reject that narrative?

[Barack Obama]

You know, look, when I won and we started the transition and we looked at what was happening in the economy, a whole bunch of my political folks came up and said, you know what? Enjoy this now, because two years from now, folks are going to be frustrated. And that is, in fact, what's happened when you've got 9.6% unemployment, when folks are seeing their homes underwater, when the economy is growing but is still not growing as fast as it needs to to make up for the 8 million jobs that were lost, folks are going to be frustrated and that's going to reflect itself in the political environment. But having said that, I look over the last 18 months and I say we prevented a second great depression. We've stabilized the economy. An economy that was shrinking is now growing. We've got nine months of consecutive private sector job growth. We have passed historic health care reform, historic financial regulatory reform. We have done things that some folks.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Don'T even know about four years ago.

[Jon Stewart]

What have you done that we don't know about? Well, are you, are you planning a surprise party for us filled with jobs and healthcare? But.

[Barack Obama]

When you look at what we've done in terms of making sure that before we even passed health care, 4 million kids got health insurance that didn't have it before through the Children's Health Insurance Program, expanded national service.

[Jon Stewart]

Expanded national.

[Barack Obama]

Service more than at any time since the beginning of the Peace Corps, made sure that credit card companies couldn't jack up your rates without notice. Over and over again, we have moved forward an agenda that is making a difference in people's lives each and every day. Now, is it enough? No. And so I expect, and I think most Democrats out there expect that people want to see more progress. But certainly in terms of the folks who voted for me, my expectation and hope is, is that if you look at the track record that we've accomplished in very difficult circumstances over the last 18 months, we have done an awful lot that we talked about during the campaign and we're going to do more in the years to come.

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[Trevor Noah]

Earlier this week, I sat down with President Barack Obama for a wide ranging conversation. We talked about the challenges facing the world, his message to young activists, and workshopping slogans with Michelle. Enjoy. Are you gonna filibuster me or like. Cause I don't have all the time. Do you want me to be very good at like.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

So is this like a roundabout way of saying you just want me to give?

[Trevor Noah]

No, I don't want short questions.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Do you want me to speed up? You want me to talk fast?

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, no. Please, Mr. President, I will not.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

I will not purposely filibuster, but sometimes I will have a pause as I'm formulating my thoughts. As you well know, Michelle. Michelle has been speeding up my auto. My. My audiobook. So, you know, I guess you can press a button so it plays like.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, you can do like 1.25 or one and a half.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You were a one and a half guy. You're definitely a one and a half guy.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

I was a little offended by that, but that's okay. That's fine. It does. It doesn't communicate the depth of feeling with which I'm doing the reading, but it's okay.

[Trevor Noah]

How do you like being referred to? Like, just as a human being. Do you like Mr. President?

[Comedy Central Announcer]

People call me Barack, but then sometimes some folks feel awkward doing it. Obviously that's what my friends call me. So I consider you a friend. But you may feel, you know, so.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no. The people will feel like. Even Africans will. They'll write me letters saying, how dare you?

[Comedy Central Announcer]

This is my fault. So I don't want to get you in trouble so you can say Mr. President.

[Trevor Noah]

That makes sense.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

You can call me POTUS.

[Trevor Noah]

My favorite one was Obizzle. That was my favorite.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Please call me that.

[Trevor Noah]

Mr. President. Welcome to the Daily Social Distancing Show.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

I am very happy to be here with you.

[Trevor Noah]

You're out there promoting a brand new book, A promised land. A 700 page book, if I may add. I love reading your stuff, don't get me wrong. But like, I would have liked 350. 350. Why 700 pages?

[Comedy Central Announcer]

You know, I would have. I would have broken it up even more. But you know, the publishers thought that breaking it up into Two volumes would be about, right? And look, the goal of the book was to give people a sense of what it's like to be in the White House as a normal person finding themselves in extraordinary circumstances. And I think part of the goal, particularly for young people, I wanted them to get a sense that not everybody's going to end up being president, but if you decide that your voice makes a difference, if you decide that you can have an impact, then through the ups and downs, you will end up having some pretty extraordinary experiences. And I wanted it to be an encouragement for people to say, ah, you know the guy, yeah, he's okay, but he's not so special. And look what he ended up doing. Maybe I can do something. Something as well.

[Trevor Noah]

It feels like this book is Barack Obama convincing Barack Obama to remain optimistic. And what I mean by convincing Barack Obama, I think of, like a young Barack Obama, I think of a fledgling Barack Obama, and not trying to emulate you per se, but rather anyone who's trying to make a change in the world or their world. That's what. That's what it feels like. If you are writing to young people to be optimistic in the book, what are some of the frustrations that you understand on their side that may hinder that optimism? You know, because if a young person says, yeah, but this system right now is crumbling more and more, how do you maintain that optimism? Or do you think there has to be a point where they go, I'm not optimistic. I'm just fighting to break what it is to create something new.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Part of the reason that it's 700 pages long is because by reading the book, they'll see, man, there are a lot of structural problems or barriers in making this place better. We're learning right now in vivid, a vivid example of the fact that our democracy is not the way we would imagine it to be. Right. There are all kinds of elements to it where the most votes don't necessarily translate into the equivalent amount of power. Very popular proposals can wither on the vine because of a filibuster in the Senate. And so. So I don't try to gloss those over. You know, the Paris Accord did not solve climate change, but it created the first global framework whereby all countries agreed we have to do something about this, and here's a mechanism to do it. You can still be terrified about the pace at which we are burning up the planet and yet think that was a worthwhile endeavor because it gives us at least the opportunity maybe three, four, five years down the road to keep building on that. So that is the kind of mentality I want young people to have. A certain impatience, a certain frustration, a certain anger about the status quo. There are times now where you have younger activists criticizing me for Obama, why didn't you take care of this or that or the other? And I, I welcome them feeling frustrated and impatient because that's how I was before I got started. And then they'll get their own knocks on the head and some stuff won't work out exactly the way they want. But the impulse is the one that I want to encourage because it's as a consequence of that constant striving and imagining something better, that, that things don't get exactly as we wanted, but they get better.

[Trevor Noah]

You're a very serious person because, I mean, you're a president of the United States, but at the same time, you're a lot more fun than a lot of people think.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

You know, I, I, I'm constantly trying to explain to people I'm a funny guy, but, but I don't know.

[Trevor Noah]

But you're right. But you really are. You really, really are. And what I liked in the book is there are moments where there's just like a roasting of people or life like the G20. I've never heard a world leader describe the G20 the way you do in the book, the high school of it all. I wonder, on a personal level, have you maintained connections with those world leaders as, like, fr. Like, do you, do you send Angela Merkel memes? Do you, like, who are you still close with? Just as a human being?

[Comedy Central Announcer]

You know, I don't send Angela Merkel memes, but I talk to her sometime. Sometimes, you know, she'll give me a call, I'll give her a call, and we'll trade notes. There are a handful of folks who you've been in the foxhole with, right? You've done some good, important work. Some of them are still in power. So I don't want to mention that, you know, that I'm giving them a call because who knows? That might get them in trouble. You mentioned somebody like Angela Merkel. Look, the stance she took in Europe relative to immigration and the enormous political cost she paid for that. And yet there was something inside her that said, look, I'm not going to simply abandon a million people who are in desperate need. You see that in somebody and you say it encourages you that for all the cruelty and venality and corruption around the world, there are a lot of good people doing good work, and some of them actually rise to significant positions of power. And in that sense, democracy can work the way it's supposed to if we have a vigilant citizenry. And that's not always the case.

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[Trevor Noah]

You've started leadership programs not just in South Africa, but all over the world. The Obama foundation has set about on a journey to inspire young people to grow up to become leaders. Growing up in South Africa, I was taught about the different levels of what a struggle is going to be. You know, the freedom fighters may not necessarily be the best politicians. The best politicians may not necessarily be the best leaders.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Right.

[Trevor Noah]

The best activists may not be the best organizers, and so on and so forth. Everyone has a role to play in trying to get to a certain place. And so I wonder when you set up these, you know, this leadership academy that's all over the globe, you know, you're clearly trying to create mini Obamas everywhere, which is probably like a fever dream of the right. But what you, what you're trying to do is create something specific. And I would like to know what that is. What are you, what do you believe? A leader is not just somebody who's in power, but a leader.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

The program we did in Johannesburg, we gathered up 200 young leaders from 50 countries on the continent of Africa. And it was as varied. You had young women who had started Rural health clinics.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

You had MPs who had taken a more conventional political route. You had entrepreneurs. The thing they all had in common, though, was this sense not only that the world could be better and that they had a role to play in it, but also the belief that they couldn't do it by themselves and that they had to in some ways unlock the potential and power of other people. A speech I gave in Johannesburg in conjunction with that, it was for the anniversary of Mandela's hundredth anniversary, where I contrasted that sort of democratic, inclusive leadership to the strongman leadership that in some ways we've seen ascendant in certain parts of the world, in some ways was ascendant here in the United States. And those are two different stories of what it means to be a leader and power. And that conflict, that battle between a more democratic, inclusive vision and one that's top down, dominant, subordinate. That's a contest that's taking place here in the United States and around the world. And it's not going to be finished just because the election is over and Donald Trump was defeated, because you see examples of this in the Philippines, in Hungary, in a variety of countries in Africa and Asia. And so that that contest is gonna continue.

[Trevor Noah]

What I find fascinating about the conversation that a lot of Americans are having now, and you, you, you talk about this in the book as well, is how America's influence in the world has diminished over the past few years. You know, how, how countries around the world have no longer said, what is America doing? We'll work with them. It's been more like, no, guys, we can't wait for America. We're doing our own thing. But I wonder, as somebody who has grown up in other parts of the world, as someone who has family in other parts of the world, is, is there an argument that maybe that's a good thing, that the world doesn't follow America anymore? Or what, what would the, what would the inverse of that argument be like? Should the world follow America? Or is it time for the world to start doing its own thing and America to be less the world police?

[Comedy Central Announcer]

I think it is a good thing that other countries catch up and have their own capabilities and their own agency. That's not something that I think America should fear. My argument would be that even in a more multipolar world where you don't have just one big power, but you have other countries who are coming into their own. The principles that America articulated at its best about rule of law, human rights, freedom of speech, democracy, those values, at least I choose to believe are not exclusively American. You, as somebody who lived in South Africa, know the play that in other countries, sometimes you hear where somebody who's doing something entirely for power and money and influence will say, if they're criticized, they say, ah, you know, you've been just influenced by Western thinking. That's colonial thinking. No, no, no, no. You are stealing from your people. Don't. And when we criticize you, don't claim that somehow this is some American hegemony being asserted against you. We're calling you on the fact that you're a thief. I think it's important for us to, to recognize that for all its failings, the values that America has often articulated on the world stage have been ones that I would still believe in and that a lot of people took comfort from. And when we are not asserting them, oftentimes they don't, you know, they don't play out on the world stage.

[Trevor Noah]

I sometimes wondered if you ever grappled with the difficulty of the paradox that America was creating in what it was trying to do in the world and then what its actions were sometimes creating in the world. You know, I, I, I mean, I think about that in the Middle east, you know, wars that have been started under false pretenses, people who have been killed who had nothing to do, you know. And so I wonder, as someone who had to make decisions and someone who was in that leadership position, do you sometimes grapple with how America did or did not help itself in how it acted with the world? Cause in the world, like I'll tell you, as an international person, we would oftentimes go like, man, yes, America's great and it's doing wonderful things. But then you'd be like, but also, man, sometimes they just break the rules and no one can say anything about it.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Absolutely. And I record examples in the book of where I'm grappling with this. Right. And one of the interesting challenges of being president of the United States, but I think being head of government or state in any country is you inherit a legacy, right? So if I come in as president and I can't undo the Iraq war, the decision to go into Iraq now, I can manage as best I can how we can wind down that war, mitigate some of the damage that's been done, but I can't reverse it.

[Trevor Noah]

Did you ever envy, though, how, like, Trump just came in and basically broke shit, though? Cause, I mean, he didn't care.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

No, I didn't envy it because I do care. And I do not think that is an option to simply pretend that the legacy of problems or issues that you inherit are somehow things you can just brush aside. So the answer is yes. I would struggle with the fact that any action I took, particularly when you're talking about counterterrorism, that's probably the area where I wrestled with this most. Because my obligation, first and foremost in the United States was to make sure that people didn't get hurt. That's sort of the bare minimum that you expect out of a nation state that you're living in, is that you can defend against harm because you're dealing with non state actors. That meant that by the time I took office, you had networks that were embedded in societies, not necessarily supported by those societies, but they're there and they are plotting and they're planning, and that wasn't made up. And there were organizations that if they could blow up the New York subway system, they would. If they could get their hands on a biological weapon, they would use it. You then are wrestling with, how do I protect the American people from those actors, but do it in a way that is morally and ethically justified? And war is madness. Kinetic action of any sort, military action of any sort, that results in death and destruction at a certain level is not the thing I would want humanity to do. And what happens to people is tragic. It is not something you gloss over. What it does to our soldiers and our troops, as I talk about in the book, it's not just the harm that our young men and women suffered and I would witness in Walter Reed, but it's also how it changes them internally when they have engaged in violence, even if necessary and justified against others. So the best I could come up with was to never glorify it, to never pretend like it isn't a dilemma. And so those kinds of questions, I think, are ones that not only should American leaders have to grapple with, but I think the American people have to be aware of. And sometimes the media does not do a very good job. It's a very binary. The Iraq war, it's glorious for the first year and a half, and then suddenly it's not.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

And we're shocked that us invading another country might turn out to be messy. Hopefully that's not a lesson we have to repeatedly relearn.

[Trevor Noah]

Let's talk a little bit about. Let's loosen things up. Uh, let's unbutton one of those. One of those buttons on the shirt there. Um, as someone who I consider to be one of the best deliverers of jokes and, and roasts Are you gonna be more careful going forward about who you roast? And I say this because you roasted Donald Trump. He ran for president. You roasted Kanye West. He ran for president. So I don't know if you've noticed, but you have an ability to inspire people to run for the highest office in the land with some of the jokes that you tell about them.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Well, I should roast people, people I admire more. I'll start roasting you, man. Who knows? Although you weren't born here, so, you know, but look, I was able to get away with it, apparently. Who knows?

[Trevor Noah]

Um, before I let you go, I wanted to know one last thing, and that is being president of the United States is arguably the toughest job in the world. When you transition back to personal life, I. I wonder what that is like, because, unlike you, I don't have that power. I've never been able to, like, just change a thing in the world or do something about it. But now, in many ways, you are like me in that you see the thing on the TV and then you get angry or sad, but you cannot really do anything about it. And so I wonder, as. As former President Barack Obama, have you. Have you transitioned into that completely, or do you find different ways to try and fix the problems that you see in the world?

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Well, first of all, I'm not anything like you. Uh, I still have a lot more influence and clout, so let's just be clear. Come on, man.

[Trevor Noah]

I was hoping you just try to.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Keep things in perspective.

[Trevor Noah]

I was hoping you'd. I was hoping you'd just let that one slide. I was hoping you'd just be like, yeah, you know, Trevor, in many way.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

Look, the truth is that I did not have those kinds of withdrawals. And I know that there are people who I know who've had them when they leave public life, and very visibly, you know, they want to get back on stage. Yeah, Michelle and I, that's something we share. We feel good about the work we did. We don't feel anxiety about not being the center of attention. We get frustrated, like I think citizens around the world and here in the country do when we see something unjust or unfair. And, yes, the goal, I think, for us is to find new ways to have that same impact, understanding that we'll never have the exact same impact as you have in the Oval Office. But, you know, a lot of the work around the foundation is, you know, you said create a lot of Obamas. I'm not sure that's the goal. But if 10 years, 20 years down the road. There are 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 young people who are now moving into positions of authority and power and in some ways have been shaped by our example in a positive way. So yeah, that's a legacy that may exceed anything that we did while we were in our formal positions and that feels pretty good.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, I could talk to you for hours, but luckily I have a 700 page book to answer the rest of my questions. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for taking the time and yeah, thank you for being you. Hey Mr. President, aka Obizzle. Thank you for joining me on the Daily Social Studio.

[Jon Stewart]

I enjoyed it, man.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

We'll do it again. Volume 2 Explore more shows from the.

[Trevor Noah]

Daily show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount.

[Comedy Central Announcer]

This has been a Comedy Central podcast.